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Thread: Are We Better off?

  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdJETSetter View Post
    Not that i personally feel this,but let me play devils advocate for a minute...

    1. Geno Smith was not the #1 QB coming out of the draft on many teams board, nor was he selected the first QB in the draft. Yes, i hope he pans out. WILDCARD

    2. Love Coples....should only improve. The move to OLB.....sure it could work, but im not just gonna chalk him up for 8 sacks.

    3. MM. I would be lying if i told you i was versed in his coaching philosophy.
    Am i familiar with the WCO? A bit. Will it work in NY with the current roster....
    possibly.

    Again, im not a downer in life, and dont reek of negativity, but im a wait and see kind of guy. I have no issue with people hoping or assuming the best, like i said, i used to be that same guy a few years back before i started reading the postings of Joe W Namath.

    Just kiddin Joe
    ok so while you're waiting and seeing you're into playing devils advocate. Geesh.

    BTW, in what alternate universe are you living in where a rookie with 5.5 sacks isn't expected to get 8 sacks in year 2? That's not devil's advocate that's just being down on the team.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by sdJETSetter View Post
    Not that i personally feel this,but let me play devils advocate for a minute...

    1. Geno Smith was not the #1 QB coming out of the draft on many teams board, nor was he selected the first QB in the draft. Yes, i hope he pans out. WILDCARD

    2. Love Coples....should only improve. The move to OLB.....sure it could work, but im not just gonna chalk him up for 8 sacks.

    3. MM. I would be lying if i told you i was versed in his coaching philosophy.
    Am i familiar with the WCO? A bit. Will it work in NY with the current roster....
    possibly.

    Again, im not a downer in life, and dont reek of negativity, but im a wait and see kind of guy. I have no issue with people hoping or assuming the best, like i said, i used to be that same guy a few years back before i started reading the postings of Joe W Namath.

    Just kiddin Joe
    Hah, I don't think anyone can assume the best anymore. That's the wrong kind of attitude. I just try to look at things without **** colored glasses if you know what I mean. The Jets have had this brown pall cast over them since the end of 2011, and while it was certainly Rex Ryan's fault to being with, beat writers and E!spn anchors have taken to it to a new level because it attracts hits and viewers. I try to take the spin out of articles, which is why Football Outsiders is such a great site. When you actually drill down, the Jets do have some potential areas of improvement this year, and there should be some positive regression and correction... but 2013 will be about setting up the next few years. Also, any improvement by Sanchez or Smith whoever is playing I think will go miles. Just look at the Jets offensive efficiency and starting position...really was pathetic in comparison to the defense.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdJETSetter View Post
    Certainly not hoping for the team to be worse, i just project with my head, not my heart.

    Could they be better? ABSOLUTELY
    Might they be worse? ABSOLUTELY

    Nobody knows how things will play out. I guess we differ on the excitement level.

    I will be the first person in line to admit im a sour, negative SOJ fan if the team does well. Could care less....

    Just dont expect my excitement level to be ramped up overthings like:
    Mark Sanchez and G smith.
    No one could be worse than what Sanchez was last season.

    Richardson & improved interior rush you are assuming on
    Why not, we had a rookie and an injured vet there last season, why can't we expect nothing less?

    Assumed outer pass rush because coples will transition perfectly
    If you don't expect normal progression in year two, what have you?

    Return of Santoni-HO....how is this a good thing>?
    He's a real good WR, our best offensive player?

    I heard the "new OC new team" theory last season...
    Compare resumes. How many top 10 O's for Sporano? MM? Slam dunk.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleansweep2013 View Post

    At least in his mind he is right.. That's all that counts
    That's the first intelligent thing you've said.

    I'm not here to entertain you. You're here to entertain me.

    SAR I

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by bjetsb View Post
    Nobody is expecting this team to be a 10+ win team. The question wasn't, why is this team going to be good this year, it was why is this team better than last year. Why don't you tell us how this team is going to be worse this year than last year?
    Take last years team.

    Strip away 10 coordinators and coaches.

    Strip away 11 starters.

    Strip away a Hall Of Fame CB.

    Strip away the only playmaking TE on the roster.

    Add a few third-string JAG's from other, non-playoff, teams.

    Add a few rookies.

    We were 6-10 last year and easily could have been 5-11. It's perfectly smart to gut and rebuild the team, but you don't lose 13 starters and the entire coaching staff and replace them from the bargain bin, add a few rookies, keep the bad head coach and expect to be successful.

    4-12. Or worse.

    SAR I

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by cant wait View Post
    Translation: it hurts too much to blame mark sanchez so I'm going to blame it all on rex ryan
    Translation:

    "Compete" isn't the catchphrase of the 2013 New York Jets.

    "Be Patient" is.

    SAR I

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Take last years team.

    Strip away 10 coordinators and coaches.

    Strip away 11 starters.

    Strip away a Hall Of Fame CB.

    Strip away the only playmaking TE on the roster.

    Add a few third-string JAG's from other, non-playoff, teams.

    Add a few rookies.

    We were 6-10 last year and easily could have been 5-11. It's perfectly smart to gut and rebuild the team, but you don't lose 13 starters and the entire coaching staff and replace them from the bargain bin, add a few rookies, keep the bad head coach and expect to be successful.

    4-12. Or worse.

    SAR I
    First of all...how many times were you calling for Bart Scott to be benched? I believe since 2010. Second...get this 3 of the 11 starters are starting on their new teams, and I belive it's 10 starters since Pace resigned right? And am I mistaken to believe that a 1st round pick can't fill the void of a nonstarter on another team? Also weren't you saying how Sparano was a terrible hire? So a replacement must be good. We all know Rex is going to be calling the defense, and you said that's what he should be doing right? DC? 7-9, 8-8. If you had to create a projected range, your surefire 4-12 is on the low end, not impossible, just not probable.

  8. #228
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    Today, 12:39 PM
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    Can't ruin my friday sunshine.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by bjetsb View Post
    First of all...how many times were you calling for Bart Scott to be benched? I believe since 2010. Second...get this 3 of the 11 starters are starting on their new teams, and I belive it's 10 starters since Pace resigned right? And am I mistaken to believe that a 1st round pick can't fill the void of a nonstarter on another team? Also weren't you saying how Sparano was a terrible hire? So a replacement must be good. We all know Rex is going to be calling the defense, and you said that's what he should be doing right? DC? 7-9, 8-8. If you had to create a projected range, your surefire 4-12 is on the low end, not impossible, just not probable.
    First off, I am 100% in complete agreement with Idzik on who was let go. I feel we should have gotten more for Revis, but I wanted him gone too.

    Of the 13 guys we have lost, I don't see any legitimate replacements. Third stringers from bad teams and a bunch of rookies, that's what we are facing right now. And of the 9 returning starters, lets say 3 of them aren't very good.

    What do you call a team that only has 6 NFL caliber starters and is pinning its hopes on 16 unproven JAG's and rookies?

    An expansion team.

    We are the Cleveland Browns because Rex Ryan took a strong core of Mangini's and some decent Ryan Ravens and did nothing to replenish it or build upon it. Everything since the 2008/9 offseason that Rex Ryan has touched on this roster hasn't performed, regressed, and has now been ejected.

    SAR I

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by RevisCroWilson View Post
    Today, 12:39 PM
    Remove user from ignore listSAR I
    This message is hidden because SAR I is on your ignore list.
    View Post Today, 12:44 PM
    Remove user from ignore listSAR I
    This message is hidden because SAR I is on your ignore list.
    View Post Today, 12:46 PM
    Remove user from ignore listSAR I
    This message is hidden because SAR I is on your ignore list.

    Can't ruin my friday sunshine.
    Can you do us all a favor and ignore SAR quietly?

    Thanks.

    SAR I

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    First off, I am 100% in complete agreement with Idzik on who was let go. I feel we should have gotten more for Revis, but I wanted him gone too.

    Of the 13 guys we have lost, I don't see any legitimate replacements. Third stringers from bad teams and a bunch of rookies, that's what we are facing right now. And of the 9 returning starters, lets say 3 of them aren't very good.

    What do you call a team that only has 6 NFL caliber starters and is pinning its hopes on 16 unproven JAG's and rookies?

    An expansion team.

    We are the Cleveland Browns because Rex Ryan took a strong core of Mangini's and some decent Ryan Ravens and did nothing to replenish it or build upon it. Everything since the 2008/9 offseason that Rex Ryan has touched on this roster hasn't performed, regressed, and has now been ejected.

    SAR I
    you blame rex for the roster's state, and not tannenbaum?

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by augustiniak View Post
    you blame rex for the roster's state, and not tannenbaum?
    Yes.

    Tannenbaum was an operator, a cap guy.

    Ryan's strategy channeling the 1985 Bears D and the 1959 Packers O doesn't work in today's NFL. We drafted to support this strategy, the roster is in turmoil as a result.

    Ryan hasn't taken a single draft pick and molded him into a stud. Most suck outright, a few show only occasional glimpses.

    SAR I

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Yes.

    Tannenbaum was an operator, a cap guy.

    Ryan's strategy channeling the 1985 Bears D and the 1959 Packers O doesn't work in today's NFL. We drafted to support this strategy, the roster is in turmoil as a result.

    Ryan hasn't taken a single draft pick and molded him into a stud. Most suck outright, a few show only occasional glimpses.

    SAR I
    part of this failure is about who they drafted. guys like john connor and vlad ducasse are tough to mold into viable starters, if not studs.

    i hear you on lack of player development.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    First off, I am 100% in complete agreement with Idzik on who was let go. I feel we should have gotten more for Revis, but I wanted him gone too.

    Of the 13 guys we have lost, I don't see any legitimate replacements. Third stringers from bad teams and a bunch of rookies, that's what we are facing right now. And of the 9 returning starters, lets say 3 of them aren't very good.

    What do you call a team that only has 6 NFL caliber starters and is pinning its hopes on 16 unproven JAG's and rookies?

    An expansion team.

    We are the Cleveland Browns because Rex Ryan took a strong core of Mangini's and some decent Ryan Ravens and did nothing to replenish it or build upon it. Everything since the 2008/9 offseason that Rex Ryan has touched on this roster hasn't performed, regressed, and has now been ejected.

    SAR I
    I'm glad we agree on something!


    I think it's kind of silly to contrast this team to the one that came out of training camp as the team that came out of training camp didn't actually play on the field last year. That was a mish mosh of depth players etc etc.

    You're comparing Millner to Darrelle Revis while I'm comparing Millner to Kyle Wilson. You're comparing Sheldon Richardson to Mike DeVito, but you shouldn't because DeVito slid over to NT when Pouha went down so it should be compared against Marcus Dixon. Coples shouldn't be slotted against Bryan Thomas?! It's Coples against Garret Macyntyre and Aaron Maybin and Pace vs Thomas.

    You can think what you want about Ivory and Goodson, but since you've never seen them play, I think that's kind of silly. I have watched them, and they are significantly better than greene and mcknight respectively (as long as they're healthy).

    Our real losses from last years team that played football in green and white are Landry to D. Landry which is a big step down, and Brandon Moore to whoever plays RG. So are you really telling me that a drop at Guard and Strong Safety and improvements or washes at the other positions are going to net a 2 game loss compared to last year?

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by sdJETSetter View Post
    German...nice.
    Haha i work at bank. Writing Deutsche bank too much i guess.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by augustiniak View Post
    part of this failure is about who they drafted. guys like john connor and vlad ducasse are tough to mold into viable starters, if not studs.

    i hear you on lack of player development.
    Part of the Rex Ryan persona has this "I am smarter than you, I can mold this guy into a player even though he's a project. Just you watch" schtick that goes with it.

    Sounded really awesome in 2009, makes you cringe in 2013.

    SAR I

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by bjetsb View Post
    I'm glad we agree on something!

    I think it's kind of silly to contrast this team to the one that came out of training camp as the team that came out of training camp didn't actually play on the field last year. That was a mish mosh of depth players etc etc.

    You're comparing Millner to Darrelle Revis while I'm comparing Millner to Kyle Wilson. You're comparing Sheldon Richardson to Mike DeVito, but you shouldn't because DeVito slid over to NT when Pouha went down so it should be compared against Marcus Dixon. Coples shouldn't be slotted against Bryan Thomas?! It's Coples against Garret Macyntyre and Aaron Maybin and Pace vs Thomas.

    You can think what you want about Ivory and Goodson, but since you've never seen them play, I think that's kind of silly. I have watched them, and they are significantly better than greene and mcknight respectively (as long as they're healthy).

    Our real losses from last years team that played football in green and white are Landry to D. Landry which is a big step down, and Brandon Moore to whoever plays RG. So are you really telling me that a drop at Guard and Strong Safety and improvements or washes at the other positions are going to net a 2 game loss compared to last year?
    Sort of.

    If we run with your logic for a moment, the players are a wash and S and RG are a downgrade. Let's say I can buy that.

    Now we've got a new offense to learn that's pass-happy and we know we don't have the receivers for that. And the schedule is set up for us to open 1-8 while we grow into this new offense.

    And in the same first 9 weeks our weakened secondary has to face Tom Brady (twice), Matt Ryan, Ben Roethlisberger, Josh Freeman, Andy Dalton, and Drew Brees who all were Top 10 for TD's last season.

    So it's not necessarily the players we lost that hurt us. It's the positions they played too. The start of the 2013 season couldn't be worse for a team with a revamped secondary and a rag-tag passing offense struggling to learn the nuances of the WCO.

    SAR I

  18. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Yes.

    Tannenbaum was an operator, a cap guy.

    Ryan's strategy channeling the 1985 Bears D and the 1959 Packers O doesn't work in today's NFL. We drafted to support this strategy, the roster is in turmoil as a result.

    Ryan hasn't taken a single draft pick and molded him into a stud. Most suck outright, a few show only occasional glimpses.

    SAR I

    Have to agree here & hope the new GM can fill Cappy's shoes. Say what you want about Tannenbaum, but it has yet to be seen if getting rid of him was the right move for the team.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Sort of.

    If we run with your logic for a moment, the players are a wash and S and RG are a downgrade. Let's say I can buy that.

    Now we've got a new offense to learn that's pass-happy and we know we don't have the receivers for that. And the schedule is set up for us to open 1-8 while we grow into this new offense.

    And in the same first 9 weeks our weakened secondary has to face Tom Brady (twice), Matt Ryan, Ben Roethlisberger, Josh Freeman, Andy Dalton, and Drew Brees who all were Top 10 for TD's last season.

    So it's not necessarily the players we lost that hurt us. It's the positions they played too. The start of the 2013 season couldn't be worse for a team with a revamped secondary and a rag-tag passing offense struggling to learn the nuances of the WCO.

    SAR I
    Come on....Josh Freeman? Literally one of the worst statistical QB's in football? Andy Dalton regressed significantly last year, and the Saints were 8-8 with one of the worst defenses in the NFL. Is Drew Brees more than likely going to pick us apart? Sure. But their defense literally might be worse than our offense. Also the Jets play the Pats tough every other game, and the team that shoudl've left Foxboro with a win last year has been improved except at guard and safety...

    I'd be an idiot not to agree that the beginning of the season isn't absurdly difficult, 0-10 is a possibility, but I'd say so is 4-5, likely somewhere in between.

    Fact of the matter is, they could start 3-1, and sometimes with a young team that kind of momentum can carry. Now I don't believe in momentum, I believe in regression, so I think they'd probably lose 4 of their next 5, putting them at 4-5. Even if they lose all 5, at 3-6, they've still got a three game stretch against the Raiders Panthers and Browns, none of whose QBs have ever seen the Jets defense, and we all know that rookie qb's suck against the multiple front/simulated pressure schemes....(see Andrew Luck).

    Are they going to be a good team this year? No. We just disagree the degree to which they will exude suckitude. I respect your opinion, and it's nice to actually have a rational debate with someone rather than just saying you're wrong.

  20. #240
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    once again, Thanks JI for that magic little function that allows you to ignore the same old same old same old routine

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