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Thread: Wilkerson & Coples ~ ~ ~

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    Mainejet...pretty much a waste of your time trying to discuss this rationally with Winton.

    His mind is made up. And all the obvious factsshowing him wrong just bounce off the stone wall of his irrational hatred for Coples.

    Maybe he wanted the Jets to draft those two HOFers Ingram or Irvin instead. I have no idea as to the cause of his one note driven agenda

    But it is apparently unchangeableno matter how many times he is proven to be incorrect
    sad but true

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    Mainejet...pretty much a waste of your time trying to discuss this rationally with Winton.

    His mind is made up. And all the obvious factsshowing him wrong just bounce off the stone wall of his irrational hatred for Coples.

    Maybe he wanted the Jets to draft those two HOFers Ingram or Irvin instead. I have no idea as to the cause of his one note driven agenda

    But it is apparently unchangeableno matter how many times he is proven to be incorrect
    all true...





    cheers ~ ~

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    Mainejet...pretty much a waste of your time trying to discuss this rationally with Winton.

    His mind is made up. And all the obvious factsshowing him wrong just bounce off the stone wall of his irrational hatred for Coples.

    Maybe he wanted the Jets to draft those two HOFers Ingram or Irvin instead. I have no idea as to the cause of his one note driven agenda

    But it is apparently unchangeableno matter how many times he is proven to be incorrect
    This is spot on with the exception of my mind being made up and having an agenda on this issue. My only agenda for the Jets is another SB sometime in the near future 2 to 5 years would be nice.

    Maine Jet is incapable of a rational discussion, he is way to emotional. I suspect high estrogen levels. You probably could have a rational discussion if you weren't a troll.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 06-06-2013 at 08:13 AM.

  4. #84
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    Sigh...

    What a sad thread. I certainly am not a draftnik by any stretch but I definitely remember the knocks on Coples motor both before and after we selected him. Is it not revisionist history to claim that no such analyses existed?

    Coples had a decent rookie year but he still has a long way to go. The former Jet I compare him to most closely is John Abraham because of where they were both taken in the draft and the job of getting to the QB that they were being asked to do. Abe was a force from his very first practice and carried this play right on into his rookie season. Coples is a country mile behind that level of contribution at this point and so I do not understand people who seem to be 100% content with his rookie campaign.

    Decent start but with some serious improvement needed before he gets within sniffing distance of being elite. What is the controversy here?

    Winston,

    Flicking snot off your fingernail is sometimes trickier than you might think. All things considered it is probably better to chart a course that does not call for this kind of activity.

  5. #85
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    Since the parallel seems to apply. Who was the better Jet, John Abraham or Shaun Ellis?

  6. #86
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    Interesting thread on our sister board where questions about Coples motor seem to be rationally discussed.

    http://www.draftinsider.net/forum/sh...ere-after-2010

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    Since the parallel seems to apply. Who was the better Jet, John Abraham or Shaun Ellis?
    I don't think you can answer that outright. Abraham is the guy more than 90% of fans would have picked if asked, "of the two, who do you want on the field during the Super Bowl?"

    But if asked, "who gives you the most value over a long career," it's obviously Ellis.

    Also agree that both players had far greater impacts in their rookie seasons (even though Abe only played six games). 5.5 sacks is nice, but jury is still out on Coples and it's hard to be excited about him until we see him play from the new position.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    Since the parallel seems to apply. Who was the better Jet, John Abraham or Shaun Ellis?
    Regular season Abraham, playoffs Ellis.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenWave View Post
    I don't think you can answer that outright. Abraham is the guy more than 90% of fans would have picked if asked, "of the two, who do you want on the field during the Super Bowl?"

    But if asked, "who gives you the most value over a long career," it's obviously Ellis.

    Also agree that both players had far greater impacts in their rookie seasons (even though Abe only played six games). 5.5 sacks is nice, but jury is still out on Coples and it's hard to be excited about him until we see him play from the new position.
    It was actually an unfair question since Ellis gave us far more years in Green. Perhaps a more accurate comparison might be Ellis vs Abraham plus Mangold.

    Anyhow after reading through the draftinsider thread it certainly seems as if people are lining up on both sides of the Coples question (bad motor or bad rap) over there. Tony seems to be sqarely on the fence but with a caveat that there was an implosion of sorts in the program he came out of.

    Optimists prefer to think that he got a bad rap and that we got a steal until proven otherwise.
    Last edited by EM31; 06-06-2013 at 09:17 AM.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    It was actually an unfair question since Ellis gave us far more years in Green. Perhaps a more accurate comparison might be Ellis vs Abraham plus Mangold.

    Anyhow after reading through the draftinsider thread it certainly seems as if people are lining up on both sides of the Coples question (bad motor or bad rap) over there. Tony seems to be sqarely on the fence but with a caveat that there was an implosion of sorts in the program he came out of.

    Optimists prefer to think that he got a bad rap and that we got a steal until proven otherwise.
    We did get a steel if he plays to his potential. It seems the optimists think that Rex calling him out is simply a Parcellian like motivation. It might be but it also might be he needs outside motivation because he isn't internally motivated? In any event getting the most out of his talent is going to benefit the team and Rex enormously.

  11. #91
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    You can compare Coples career to Abraham, but to compare his impact as a rookie is ridiculous. Abe was only asked to speed rush, while Coples had to learn multiple positions on a much more complex 3-4 hybrid Dline.

    Talking about his motivation is also pointless, and reading a thread from a year ago is a waste of time. No one is on the fence anymore. He showed no signs of lack of effort all season long. Rex called him out on one drill. Give it a rest. He played great towards the end of the season, and had one of the highest pressure to rush ratios in the league. As a rookie 3-4 DE he had 5.5 sacks playing only part time because he was suspect against the run at the beginning of the year. There's no way you can look at that as anything but terrific, and now he's moving to the edge where he should have much more opportunity.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    You can compare Coples career to Abraham, but to compare his impact as a rookie is ridiculous. Abe was only asked to speed rush, while Coples had to learn multiple positions on a much more complex 3-4 hybrid Dline.

    Talking about his motivation is also pointless, and reading a thread from a year ago is a waste of time. No one is on the fence anymore. He showed no signs of lack of effort all season long. Rex called him out on one drill. Give it a rest. He played great towards the end of the season, and had one of the highest pressure to rush ratios in the league. As a rookie 3-4 DE he had 5.5 sacks playing only part time because he was suspect against the run at the beginning of the year. There's no way you can look at that as anything but terrific, and now he's moving to the edge where he should have much more opportunity.
    Coples played pretty much in pass only situations. Abraham was hurt in his rookie season and only played 6 games. Abe's tackle stats pro rated are at least as good as Coples last year and his 4.5 sacks in 6 games was substantially better.

    Abe was a tackling machine in year 2 as well as a great pass rusher. He also chased guys down from the backside. He was a beast when he was healthy and on the field.

  13. #93
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    thanks for moderating, EM

    looks like we finally have a consensus that choosing Coples, especially when compared to the meh careers of Ingram and Irvin was a "steel"

    You are a gentleman and a scholar, my friend

  14. #94
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    ooops...

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    thanks for moderating, EM

    looks like we finally have a consensus that choosing Coples, especially when compared to the meh careers of Ingram and Irvin was a "steel"

    You are a gentleman and a scholar, my friend
    Ingram clearly started slowly and I am sure that current projections may have him as a lesser player than Coples when all is said and done. This conversation is less about Ingram that it is about having Coples be all that he can be. At the very least he has to understand that some folks will be looking closely to see evidence of lack of effort.

    I hope you realize that "steel" was an intentional faux pas from Winston "hear". I am afraid he is having a little fun at your expense.

    Historically my snarky response to message board spell checkers would be to thank them for their unpaid input, offer to continue to not pay them for this service and then observe that they are being compensated in accordance with the value of their contributions.

    Don't be a message board spell checker. There is limited upside to it.

    <edited to add>
    Actually I think we do have consensus. Nothing Winston has posted makes me think he is regretting the pick. he has just observed that there is more work to do which aligns with my own opinion. This is all much adieu about nothing.
    Last edited by EM31; 06-06-2013 at 11:17 AM.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    Ingram clearly started slowly and I am sure that current projections may have him as a lesser player than Coples when all is said and done. This conversation is less about Ingram that it is about having Coples be all that he can be. At the very least he has to understand that some folks will be looking closely to see evidence of lack of effort.

    I hope you realize that "steel" was an intentional faux pas from Winston "hear". I am afraid he is having a little fun at your expense.

    Historically my snarky response to message board spell checkers would be to thank them for their unpaid input, offer to continue to not pay them for this service and then observe that they are being compensated in accordance with the value of their contributions.

    Don't be a message board spell checker. There is limited upside to it.

    <edited to add>
    Actually I think we do have consensus. Nothing Winston has posted makes me think he is regretting the pick. he has just observed that there is more work to do which aligns with my own opinion. This is all much adieu about nothing.
    " . . . This is all much adieu about nothing. "

    ~ yup

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    Ingram clearly started slowly and I am sure that current projections may have him as a lesser player than Coples when all is said and done. This conversation is less about Ingram that it is about having Coples be all that he can be. At the very least he has to understand that some folks will be looking closely to see evidence of lack of effort.

    I hope you realize that "steel" was an intentional faux pas from Winston "hear". I am afraid he is having a little fun at your expense.

    Historically my snarky response to message board spell checkers would be to thank them for their unpaid input, offer to continue to not pay them for this service and then observe that they are being compensated in accordance with the value of their contributions.

    Don't be a message board spell checker. There is limited upside to it.

    <edited to add>
    Actually I think we do have consensus. Nothing Winston has posted makes me think he is regretting the pick. he has just observed that there is more work to do which aligns with my own opinion. This is all much adieu about nothing.
    Historically I have turned the other check, however when confronted with those who use Hate and agenda in what's supposed to be a dialogue between fans of the same team I have decided to simply turn on them.

    As far as spelling is concerned I like being chastised for poor spelling. I have been a very poor speller much of it do to a lack of effort. I view attacks on spelling as a motivational tool. Much like Rex telling Revis he is the greatest CB ever, putting a C on Holmes chest and calling Connor the terminator.

  18. #98
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    That's a Linebacker ?

    Quinton Coples still remembers the first time he played linebacker. It isn't difficult for him to recall the moment. It was last month.

    The Jets want to use defensive end Quinton Coples at linebacker.

    On May 20, the Jets held an organized team activity and took a significant step toward doing something rather revolutionary in the NFL. They had Coples—their first-round draft pick in 2012, their leader in quarterback sacks last season with 5 1/2, a defensive end who stands 6 feet 6 inches and weighs 290 pounds—line up at outside linebacker. Coach Rex Ryan said the Jets want to use Coples in a hybrid role to take better advantage of his pass-rushing skills. Sometimes, he'll put his hand on the ground and play end. Sometimes he'll stand and play linebacker. Either way, he said, "I'll be in disguise. You'll never know if I'm coming or not."

    The idea of having a defensive player function in this manner isn't new. Ryan, in fact, compared the way the Jets will use Coples to the way he used Terrell Suggs when Ryan was the Baltimore Ravens' defensive line coach and defensive coordinator. But what makes Coples's situation different is his sheer size.

    "Am I that big?" he asked.

    For a linebacker, yes, he is. Since 1990, just two players who weighed as much as Coples have played linebacker in the NFL, according to Stats LLC.: the Ravens' Bryan Hall (in 2012) and the Miami Dolphins' Ikaika Alama-Francis (in 2010). Between them, Hall and Alama-Francis have started two NFL games and recorded one sack, so it isn't as if the Jets' experiment with Coples—turning him into the league's biggest linebacker in an attempt to make their defense more dynamic—has a long track record of success. But they need to do something. They traded All-Pro cornerback Darrelle Revis in April, and last season they ranked 25th in the NFL with 30 sacks.

    "It's 2013—time for a change, baby," Coples said.

    Ryan thinks it will work. Regarded as one of the NFL's most imaginative defensive coaches, he was quick to point out some of the unusual alignments and strategies he came up with in Baltimore. "You adapt and do what's in the best interest of your team by putting the best players out there," Ryan said.

    By moving Suggs from linebacker to defensive end and back again, depending on the defense's scheme, Ryan helped develop him into a productive and fearsome pursuer of quarterbacks. Suggs has 84˝ sacks in 149 career games and recorded at least 10 sacks in four seasons. But at 6-3 and 260 pounds, he's also 3 inches shorter and 30 pounds lighter than Coples, and it remains to be seen whether Coples has the instincts and foot speed necessary to cover an opposing running back or tight end on passing downs. He simulated dropping back into coverage a few times during drills Wednesday at the Jets' last OTA of the off-season.

    "I'm doing pretty good," Coples said. "They say I look like a natural."

    They who?

    "A bunch of coaches. I don't like to name-drop."

    > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...J_topics_obama

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