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Thread: Fascinating testimony regarding Benghazi

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    If you don't believe in an independent prosecutor with real power and want to leave the investigation to the hacks on the right why are you upset about the left using government to go after the right when the right is using government to go after the left?

    I'm pretty confident that there are some excellent legal minds who don't have a political agenda who can investigate fairly. If you don't believe that what are we talking about? We might as well have anarchy.
    my point was you'll never find anyone on this planet truly impartial. And the anarchy thing is a false choice. The real problem is that no matter how much evidence there is, the left never admits wrong-doing. NEVER.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    Pickering's quote is immaterial to my point, Special Ed.

    It does not change the fact that Jay Carney straight up lied to the American people about how the White House and the State Department made 12 revisions to talking points and struck out mentionings of Al Qaeda and terrorism.

    And today we learn Obama's Department of Justice wiretapped 100 AP reporters in hopes to learn the identity of an unnamed source.

    That may be just some more "politics" in your bootlicking world, cr, but to most people we're looking at a president whose dishonesty is catching up with him in a big way.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by sackdance View Post
    Pickering's quote is immaterial to my point, Special Ed.

    It does not change the fact that Jay Carney straight up lied to the American people about how the White House and the State Department made 12 revisions to talking points and struck out mentionings of Al Qaeda and terrorism.

    And today we learn Obama's Department of Justice wiretapped 100 AP reporters in hopes to learn the identity of an unnamed source.

    That may be just some more "politics" in your bootlicking world, cr, but to most people we're looking at a president whose dishonesty is catching up with him in a big way.
    time for an update on our thinking: we've compared Obuttocks to Carter, for worst president ever. We should be comparing him to Nixon, with his enemies list, dirty tricks, and impeachable offenses.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by quantum View Post
    time for an update on our thinking: we've compared Obuttocks to Carter, for worst president ever. We should be comparing him to Nixon, with his enemies list, dirty tricks, and impeachable offenses.
    Dont forget to add the single worst piece of legislation ever written, Obamacare.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by quantum View Post
    my point was you'll never find anyone on this planet truly impartial. And the anarchy thing is a false choice. The real problem is that no matter how much evidence there is, the left never admits wrong-doing. NEVER.
    I'm a lefty and I think the entire policy was wrong, the lies were wrong the IRS is possible impeachable offense, the wiretapping of the AP is a potential mess.

    The problem here is the right wing is going after him for purely political reasons and support the same policy.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    I'm a lefty and I think the entire policy was wrong, the lies were wrong the IRS is possible impeachable offense, the wiretapping of the AP is a potential mess.

    The problem here is the right wing is going after him for purely political reasons and support the same policy.
    So who should be advancing this investigation? And how could this NOT be political? It was a cover up by politicians for a political purpose. The motive for the investigation does not change the facts that occurred.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    I'm a lefty and I think the entire policy was wrong, the lies were wrong the IRS is possible impeachable offense, the wiretapping of the AP is a potential mess.

    The problem here is the right wing is going after him for purely political reasons and support the same policy.
    Do you even realize that your answers are just parroting of left wing talking points EVERYTIME one of their guys does something wrong? The argument the other side is going after him for political purposes is applicable to virtually every scandal that has happened. This is how politics functions. One side screws up and the other calls them out on it. When the side that screws up feels the consequences it deters them from doing it again.

    It started with things like Solyndra and the illegal shifting of taxpayer money to 2nd lein status behind big Obama donors that had invested in that company. Tack on fast and furious, the EPA offensive and the Bengazi coverup. Now we have the administration targeting conservative groups through the IRS and tapping reporter phone lines.

    The reality is that because the media has been so reluctant to hold this administrations feet to the fire it seems like they have a sense of invulnerability. This is not good for the country at all. No side should ever feel invulnerable to prosecution or even media scrutiny. I am wondering if tapping reporter phone records sends a signal to the media to put down the kool ade and stop acting as the defenders of this administration and begin to do their jobs instead.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    So who should be advancing this investigation? And how could this NOT be political? It was a cover up by politicians for a political purpose. The motive for the investigation does not change the facts that occurred.
    Nobody is charging that what happened on the ground, the actual facts of what happened was in anyway wrongdoing. This is merely about interagency talking points not real action.

    The IRS should have a special prosecutor appointed immediately.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    Do you even realize that your answers are just parroting of left wing talking points EVERYTIME one of their guys does something wrong? The argument the other side is going after him for political purposes is applicable to virtually every scandal that has happened. This is how politics functions. One side screws up and the other calls them out on it. When the side that screws up feels the consequences it deters them from doing it again.

    It started with things like Solyndra and the illegal shifting of taxpayer money to 2nd lein status behind big Obama donors that had invested in that company. Tack on fast and furious, the EPA offensive and the Bengazi coverup. Now we have the administration targeting conservative groups through the IRS and tapping reporter phone lines.

    The reality is that because the media has been so reluctant to hold this administrations feet to the fire it seems like they have a sense of invulnerability. This is not good for the country at all. No side should ever feel invulnerable to prosecution or even media scrutiny. I am wondering if tapping reporter phone records sends a signal to the media to put down the kool ade and stop acting as the defenders of this administration and begin to do their jobs instead.
    Nonsense. The NYT cheerleading the Bush lies about Iraq didn't offend any Republicans. The IRS is a going to blow up on the administration everyone knows that.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Nobody is charging that what happened on the ground, the actual facts of what happened was in anyway wrongdoing. This is merely about interagency talking points not real action.

    The IRS should have a special prosecutor appointed immediately.
    Really? The Benghazi cover up and failures are "interagency talking points"??

    So you are ok with the administration flat out lying to the American people to advance their political agenda during the election?? Somehow I think you would be singing a different tune if the political parties involved were reversed. Plus, it would not have been ignored by 90% of the media.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Nonsense. The NYT cheerleading the Bush lies about Iraq didn't offend any Republicans. The IRS is a going to blow up on the administration everyone knows that.
    Thats because there were just as many dems saying the same things prior to invading Iraq. The fact so many liberals seem to forget that is somewhat amusing.

  12. #132
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    It must be tough for the right to be the victim all of the time? The media reports what sells, making money is more important than the actual reporting of news.


    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    Do you even realize that your answers are just parroting of left wing talking points EVERYTIME one of their guys does something wrong? The argument the other side is going after him for political purposes is applicable to virtually every scandal that has happened. This is how politics functions. One side screws up and the other calls them out on it. When the side that screws up feels the consequences it deters them from doing it again.

    It started with things like Solyndra and the illegal shifting of taxpayer money to 2nd lein status behind big Obama donors that had invested in that company. Tack on fast and furious, the EPA offensive and the Bengazi coverup. Now we have the administration targeting conservative groups through the IRS and tapping reporter phone lines.

    The reality is that because the media has been so reluctant to hold this administrations feet to the fire it seems like they have a sense of invulnerability. This is not good for the country at all. No side should ever feel invulnerable to prosecution or even media scrutiny. I am wondering if tapping reporter phone records sends a signal to the media to put down the kool ade and stop acting as the defenders of this administration and begin to do their jobs instead.

  13. #133
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    1. Fast & Furious, supplying Guns to Mexican Drug Cartels.

    2. Setting precedent that the Government has a right to force consumers to buy a private product against their will, changing fundamentally the relationship betwee individual and State.

    3. Selective or Non enforcement of duly passed Law (Immigration) of Congress, changing fundamentally the balance of the supposedly three co-equal branches of Government.

    4. Funneling Trillions of taxpayer dollars into Banks, Car Company/Unions and Green Energy special interests, and little to no prosecution of law breaking in these three sectors.

    5. Attempts to limit the 2nd Amendment, specificly exploiting tragic victims of mentally insane people to attempt to pass laws that would not stop these events, but in the vast majority effect only law abiding, non-violent citizens rights.

    6. Maintained every Bush-era Policy (Drones, Guantanamo, Iraq War, Afghan War, Patriot Act) previously denounced by his side.

    7. Expanded U.S. Millitarism/Interventionism into Libya and a host of other Nations via Drones, Advisors and Intelligence types.

    8. Ordered the killing of a U.S. Citizen without trial or due process, for the crime of "planning", a crime that in no jurisdiction in the United States carries a Death Penalty sentence even with a trial and guilty verdict, thus maintaining that terrorism is a "war" with all the effects that come with it, thus expanding many domestic crimes into terrorism, and the resultant reductions in the rights of the accused even if a U.S. citizen.

    9. Expanded the use of Drones and Drone-based survailance domesticly, reducing individual privacy.

    10. Benghazi, failure to secure U.s. diplomatic staff safety, and a political-based cover-up in order to help win an election.

    11. IRS targeting of political opponents.

    12. DOJ taking extensive and broad AP phone records.

    IMO, we should all be concerned with this resume of change. Not because it's better/worse than Bush, or any other partisan reason, but because almost universally these items portray a fundamental shift in our peoples relations with our State.

    In most of these items, we citizens have less power, less individual rights and individual protections, and less honesty and transparency from the State as to the States actions. As a citizen you can be forced to buy a product the Govt says you must have, your tax records can face scrutiny because of your political viewpoint, you could be killed without trial if accused of terrorism and planning, without trial or verdict, your phone records could be confiscated without just cause, you can be spied on by drones, locked up in Guantanamo without due process, your right to own a gun could eventually be limited at the States discretion, your rights as a citizen are reduced by illegals not being prosecuted and our laws not being enforced, and teh Executive is no longer under any co-equal requirement to enforce the laws passed by Congress if they disagree with those laws, thus ultimately reducing the power of the people to control the State.

    This is a very dark time for individual citizens, and both parties are to blame. As we creep ever closer to the type of Government that the Wastern Block enjoyed, one tat lies, kills secretly, and controls many aspects we take for granted today as 'freedoms", we should all be mindful that the Government is not looking ou for us as individuals. It only cares about itself, it's own power, and what it sees as "the greater good", a road to hel paved with tyranical intentions.

    This should not be a left/right issue. This should be a clarion call for all to unite to protect the individual rights and freedoms that Bush, then Obama, and both (R) and (D) have been steadily removing from us for years now.

    Before it's too late.
    Last edited by Churchill; 05-14-2013 at 12:24 PM.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    As a citizen you can be forced to buy a product the Govt says you must have, your tax records can face scrutiny because of your political viewpoint, you could be killed without trial if accused of terrorism and planning, without trial or verdict, your phone records could be confiscated without just cause, you can be spied on by drones, locked up in Guantanamo without due process, your right to own a gun could eventually be limited at the States discretion, your rights as a citizen are reduced by illegals not being prosecuted and our laws not being enforced, and teh Executive is no longer under any co-equal requirement to enforce the laws passed by Congress if they disagree with those laws, thus ultimately reducing the power of the people to control the State.
    The problem is that this is what the people want. This wasn't some mad power grab. People may quibble over the verbiage used to express the ideas you've posted here. But it's difficult to disagree with the general meaning and trend here.

    It's a sad state of affairs, but it's not the fault of the political parties. It's the failing of the people who elected them.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axil View Post
    It's a sad state of affairs, but it's not the fault of the political parties.
    No, political parties are going to get away with what they can. The press essentially has been taking a nap since 2008. We're learning the hard way how damaging this is.

    "Find out who leaked that story, tap AP if you have to. We'll get to the bottom of this."

    Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Obama has never shown himself to be anything but a slick orator (unless being friends with Jay-Z counts as leadership) - he is still the same state senator who cut sweet deals with Tony Rezko. Apply the pressures of the presidency and he's morphed into Richard Nixon.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    It must be tough for the right to be the victim all of the time? The media reports what sells, making money is more important than the actual reporting of news.
    Sadly, the media pushes the media's agenda and ideology. When they disagree politically with a President or administration they go after them with a venom. When they like or agree with an Admin they defend them blindly. This is nothing new though it is more pronounced today than in the past. The media controls the national dialogue.

  17. #137
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    The media is more fractured now than ever, with social media it's out of control and it's a hard argument to make that their as any type of national dialogue.

    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    Sadly, the media pushes the media's agenda and ideology. When they disagree politically with a President or administration they go after them with a venom. When they like or agree with an Admin they defend them blindly. This is nothing new though it is more pronounced today than in the past. The media controls the national dialogue.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axil View Post
    The problem is that this is what the people want. This wasn't some mad power grab. People may quibble over the verbiage used to express the ideas you've posted here. But it's difficult to disagree with the general meaning and trend here.

    It's a sad state of affairs, but it's not the fault of the political parties. It's the failing of the people who elected them.
    +1

    As I've said, it'd be refreshing if many could look in the mirror for a change. Folks are so married to their prescribed ideologies and frankly seem too lazy to pursue the real facts going on. We want our news presented on a silver platter, in short tidbits, without effort or thought required. Take it as presented and run with it. All of this, every single bit of it, is enabled by a low information voting populace, many of whom are convinced they are informed. And they're loud about it.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    +1

    As I've said, it'd be refreshing if many could look in the mirror for a change. Folks are so married to their prescribed ideologies and frankly seem too lazy to pursue the real facts going on. We want our news presented on a silver platter, in short tidbits, without effort or thought required. Take it as presented and run with it. All of this, every single bit of it, is enabled by a low information voting populace, many of whom are convinced they are informed. And they're loud about it.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    Exhibit A

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