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Thread: 2013 Jets (Projected) Starting Front Seven Discussion

  1. #1
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    2013 Jets (Projected) Starting Front Seven Discussion

    DE -- Wilkerson
    NT -- Ellis & Garay
    DE -- Richardson

    OLB -- Barnes/Pace
    ILB -- Harris
    ILB -- Davis
    OLB -- Coples
    By most accounts, this is the going to be the opening day Front 7 for our New York Jets. Only the Davis position may be questionable, and then only if someone better shakes loose before camp.

    How do we feel about this unit, vs. the run? vs. the pass? Creating pressure? Turnovers?

    Wilkerson appears to be a developing potential star at one end position, doing quite well at times despite almost constant double-deams.

    Ellis has been something of a dissapointment on the field thus far, albeit a dissapointment the front office clearly thinksis ready to step into a starting role (if not, you do not let both Devito and Pouha go so easily).

    Garay is something of an avergae player, not much to really say. I'm not that familiar with his resume, but it seems somewhat average.

    Richardson at the other DE (or DT when Coples plays on the line in the 4-3) is supposed a talent in the pass rush game, but potentially a weakness at the NFL level (to start) vs. the run.

    Barnes is a pretty solid LB, probably a step-up vs. Bryan Thomas. Pace is Pace, old, but at least he's now cheap. Perhaps a soldi fill-in to generate some extra pass rush.

    Harris is a pretty good ILB, one of the better on his good days, but he has days where he seems to dissapear. Makes alot of tackles, but has never been much of a pass rush threat and is questionable in coverage.

    Davis is somethign of an unknown, a younger player we've not seen in a starting role. Has alot of fans (as all backups do) amongst the fans, but is unproven.

    Coples is moved from DE to OLB (with some likely DE style lineups). He clearly has alot of talent and potential, but like many on this unit, it's all an unknown right now.

    Overall, we appear to have a young unit full of kids with upside and potential, but darm little real productivity yet. The front 3 (4) are all top end draft picks or recent vintage, and appear to be a little hit or miss thus far (Ellis a miss, Wilk a hit, Coples a tbd). The linebacker group appears to be a weakness, but the Ryan system has somewhat adequately overcome similar weaknesses int he past few years, to varying degrees. Harris is the only standout in the group going into opening day.

    With that said, the unit as a whole got much younger, faster, andhopefully hungrier. Unit speed is considerably improved, and the hope being that increased speed can and new talents can finally generate some system-based pass rush potential.

    We still lack anything like a clear-cut pass rush stud, and interesting omission that has existed throughout the Rex Ryan era. Pass defense vs. the growing trend of Backetball playign TE's and RGII-styles running QB's could be better, again due to more unti speed and (hopefully) disruptiveness, but that will be countered by a rather large lack of experience and unit cohesiveness, especially early on.

    This group appears to be one building towards the longer term, at the expense of today, with the hope that both Wilkerson and Coples develop into valid outside threats, and Richardson can become a moden inside rush threat of a type less common now-a-days (technique and speed over bulk and force). The unit will very likely suffer early in 2013, hopefully growing better each week as things start to settle out.

    I'd expect at least one LB to be either a string FA aquisition ro draft pick in 2014, to contineu the youth movement and speed/rush potential going into that season, probably at the expense of Pace (surely gone) and/or Barnes.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    NASTY potential... much more Speed with Davis and Barnes in there plus we finally have two way Players along the DLine. Rex will love the versatility as he can basically run multiple front without even thinking about changing personnel. He can Play a traditional 3-4, he can run a Basic 4-3, then he can go real heavy with almost 5 linemen, he can have everyone Standing up outside of Ellis... so many opportunities...

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    My one criticism of Rex's handling of this defense is that he tends to be a bit too loyal to veterans and, as a result, last year the younger guys don't get enough snaps. For example, Coples had a very good preseason last year (leading the league in sacks) but still got a relatively low number of snaps in the regular season. This year he will get a chance to show what he can do. Also very curious to see what Davis can do in the regular rotation. We should be a LOT quicker this year with Scott and Thomas gone and Pace in a diminished role. I think we will see marked improvement from the front seven.

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    I expect an average unit against the run with the best pass rush the Jets have had in a decade. I also think this unit will be better against the pass, mostly because Davis is a huge upgrade over Scott in that dept. but I expect a ton of tipped balls from Mo, Coples, and Sheldon.

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    Coples would get burned in coverage.. Other tha n that a huge upgrade from last year!

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    I think we should've kept Pouha over Garay, he knows the system and is a proven run stopper.

    Also wondering how Coples adjustment to OLB will go. I can't remember an outside rusher with his size and build, except maybe Peppers. And can Coples set the edge on outside running plays?

    Looking at the players we have there, we've really sunk a ton of resources into the front 7, hopefully we will see results this season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flymax View Post
    Coples would get burned in coverage.. Other tha n that a huge upgrade from last year!
    Is he really that much worse than BT/Pace in coverage? He's faster than both at this point in their careers.

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    I think our pass defense is improved in the front 7. There are definitley reasons to beleive that Richardson should have an impact and that Coples and Wilkerson will continue to develop as pass rushers. Barnes is also probably a better pass rusher than Pace and Thomas were at this point in their careers. Davis should be better in coverage than what we've had, but admittedly that's speculation.

    I think the question is whether our front 7 is better against the run. Pace and Harris still seem slow, and my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that Barnes is more of a rusher than a run stopper. I think one of the big question marks in this area is Davis -- on paper he should be a sideline to sideline tackler who can help deal with our issues against the run ont he edges, where we've been slow, but it's hard to know with his lack of experience. Not worried about runs up the gut -- I think guys like Wilkerson and Richardson will make penetratiing plays into the backfield and Harris is solid when you're going north/south.

    Overall we've definitley gotten younger and faster, which is a good thing, but as the OP pointed out, we do have question marks.

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    The three down linemen will be so fluid that a depth chart is useless. That's the best thing about this draft.

    The problem with Ryan's scheme is that it is not compartmented. When Jason Taylor got signed, he didn't understand the scheme. Once he got in-house, he not only understood it, but he made it public knowledge that it was something easy to understand.

    Teams have understood Rex's scheme since. Teams have defeated it since.

    If it is so easy to understand, why are we still running it? Or are we?

    What the hell defense are we running?

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    it's tough to just classify Coples as solely an OLB and Richardson a DE in the base defense.

    Coples is going to be the equivalent of Suggs (not in quality, just in terms of position) or Mario Williams. Most of the time, he'll be at the line of scrimmage, lining up outside of the tackle, with Barnes more than likely playing back with more space on the other side. It's a Typical 3-4 Over defense. The same one we've seen from the Ravens and Jets forever....seems more semantics to say he's playing OLB. I think he'll be a mismatch for a lot tackles, as he proved he could overpower massive guards as a 3-4 END.

    Even though Devito was a "3-4 de according to most media morons," he lined up as a DT (insofar as he was inside of the guards for the most part). I think Richardson will need a little time to adjust to the runstuffing aspect of the role, as his scouting report classifies him as an up the field tackle. That being said, he's going to be a significant upgrade in interior pass rush. I would imagine that Rex is going to scheme around his inefficiencies to begin the season.

    Can't wait to see a little more 4 man rushes that can actually penetrate!

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    The DL is probably a non issue unless we get hit with the injury bug and then all guarantees are off. Wilk is our best player on defense right now and will likely get better. Richardson seems to be a pretty good addition and a guy that can pass rush potential by simply beating the guy in front of him. That of course is on top of whatever Rex Ryan can scheme up for pass rush.

    NT seems to be a little in doubt. Kenrick Ellis is a great player during the preseason but disappears when the season hits. That needs to change. But I do think the combination of Ellis/Garay could be a decent combo for a while.

    The linebackers really are a question mark. Coples is moving to OLB and it's really hard to know how well he'll adjust. 280 pounds is a lot of player to run sideline to sideline. Can he set the edge? I think at least in the early going he'll struggle, but the defining moment will be later on in the season. I think he'll bring early returns on passing downs generating pressure on the QB.

    Really this unit needs to step up seriously if they are going to cover up a suspect secondary. We have a rookie at one corner and a guy coming off a career defining season. Safety is a real crap shoot. WHO is going to play FS? I really don't believe (or tend not to) believe that Josh Bush is going to step right in and be a player. Bush could easily be out of the league after this season. I like what I see but it all reamins to be seen if he can handle facing Tom Brady twice a season.

    The most obvious weakness for this defense will be big plays right over the center of the field beyond 20 yards.

    The only way I see that being kept under wraps is having a great front 7 at getting pressure. So obviously for this defense to be successful against top passing teams, the front 7 will be huge.

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    Kenrick Ellis' injury issues last season were a disappointment - but that's beyond his control.

    His play has been stellar - he's had a few years of practice at a position (NT) where very few players are "plug and play" from college and his biggest obstacle to getting more reps was the fact that Sione Pouha plays the same position.

    I'd expect a lot from him this year, even with Antonio Garay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flymax View Post
    Coples would get burned in coverage.. Other tha n that a huge upgrade from last year!
    I think we'll see the front-7 listed above on early downs, when they are defending run more.

    When we are defending pass, you'll see more 46/nickel type formations, that get the pass rushers on the field at the same time as the extra coverage help.

    I don't expect to see a lot of consistency of lineup. It's going to be a constant rotation of bodies for every situation.

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    the unit as a whole got much younger, faster, andhopefully hungrier. Unit speed is considerably improved
    this line really stood out to me. Speed covers up some of the Jets biggest weaknesses from last year. Davis will not be as bad as Bart Scott was last year. No chance.

    Harris, as you say, is the group's standout, and I agree. He could have a great, impactful year if he's not being asked to chase TEs all over the place and get stuck in coverage against speedy RBs who he has no chance against. Let Davis run after them most of the time.

    Harris is a pretty good blitzer a good run stuffer who has some short area speed IMO. I'm not saying he's Pat Willis or anything... but he's a smart, sure tackling (usually) dude who had 123 tackles last year and 5 sacks/4 INT the year before. When healthy, he's way above average IMO.

    I think the unit's performance all comes down to Coples and Richardson and their ability to get to (or not) the QB is everything. A lot of this teams' problems are solved with an effective 4 or 5 man rush.

    I haven't been this excited about the defense in a while. I think they can be the best in the league within a year if Milliner, Richarson, and Coples are as good as we hope.

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    All I know is this. If the NY Jets somehow get Clowney we could be on the verge of building one of the nastiest defenses the league has seen in a long long time.

    I really hope Smith is the real deal. Because imagine if Smith stinks and we have a shot at Teddy and Clowney? What do we do? I really think I'd still go Clowney. He's the best we've had coming out since LT.

    Sorry to take the thread in a different direction but I can't help but think how nasty is would be to add Clowney to this defense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LockeJET View Post
    All I know is this. If the NY Jets somehow get Clowney we could be on the verge of building one of the nastiest defenses the league has seen in a long long time.

    I really hope Smith is the real deal. Because imagine if Smith stinks and we have a shot at Teddy and Clowney? What do we do? I really think I'd still go Clowney. He's the best we've had coming out since LT.

    Sorry to take the thread in a different direction but I can't help but think how nasty is would be to add Clowney to this defense.
    I like Clowney a lot haven't seen the Louisville kid play yet.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw View Post
    I think we should've kept Pouha over Garay, he knows the system and is a proven run stopper.

    Also wondering how Coples adjustment to OLB will go. I can't remember an outside rusher with his size and build, except maybe Peppers. And can Coples set the edge on outside running plays?

    Looking at the players we have there, we've really sunk a ton of resources into the front 7, hopefully we will see results this season.
    You have to stop the run versus the Chiefs, Raiders and Broncos...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chupa View Post
    Is he really that much worse than BT/Pace in coverage? He's faster than both at this point in their careers.
    Who the hell cares about OLB's in coverage? Their top 2 responsibilities are 1) Rush the passer and 2) Stop the run.

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    Barnes will be starting over Pace. He's younger, faster and better. Toss up about Ellis/Garay. Other than that the front 7 is set and I like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flymax View Post
    Coples would get burned in coverage.. Other tha n that a huge upgrade from last year!
    So then he will be a upgrade over pace and Thomas in that department.. At 295 tho I really wouldn't want him in pass coverage to often..

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