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Thread: Sheldon Richardson and Quinton Coples at olb ? any thoughts

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    I was immediately troubled by this talk of Richardson playing NT at mini camp. It is just what I did NOT want to happen and leads to the possibility of wasting some of his talents.
    But until we see how they are using Richardson at NT, we dont know if he is being wasted or not. Maybe he was lined up there in a nickel situation being used for a pass rush.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snell41 View Post
    Read slowly, I know it's hard for you to comprehend. Our rush defense struggled last year at the 2nd line of defense, the Linebackers. They very regularly stopped the RB at the LOS with the DL, probably as well as any other team in the league. Occasionally a RB would break through to the 2nd level, the Linebackers, as will happen to even the best DL's. For the most part those old and slow LB's made the play, however the issue was when they found themselves out of position they were too slow to compensate and what should have been a 10 yard gain at most turned into a 60 yard TD run.

    So in very slow easy to understand words, our LB's were the main reason why our run D ranked out poorly last year. 3 of the 4 are now gone, and the 4th had a pretty significant ankle injury last year, is young still, and has always been stout against the run when healthy. It stands to reason he will continue to do so.

    Look, I'm no big fan of Rex, but the one thing he does bring to the table is pretty much does guarantee in performance is a top tier D. I don't expect any of that to change.
    I know exactly the point you were trying to make with the LB's . I made the same argument about my Raiders for years. Just because the names change means the results are going to be any different. ( Here the point I think you will improve against the run in 2013- so I don't know why were having this debate- run defense. .

    MY contention has been against the pass is where the Jets are going to struggle in 2013. Just because Jets were 2 against the pass in 2012 means they were that good a pass defense . ( Phony stat that alot of Jets are buying into) I don't like Jets safeties and their LB's in coverage. There isn't a CB on the Jets defense that scares an offensive coordinator like Revis use to.
    I'm tired of this conversation and will just wait till season over wityh to see if I was right or wrong on this one.

  3. #83
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    Coples at OLB - Yes.

    Richardson at OLB - No


    Those are my thoughts.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    I know exactly the point you were trying to make with the LB's . I made the same argument about my Raiders for years. Just because the names change means the results are going to be any different. ( Here the point I think you will improve against the run in 2013- so I don't know why were having this debate- run defense. .

    MY contention has been against the pass is where the Jets are going to struggle in 2013. Just because Jets were 2 against the pass in 2012 means they were that good a pass defense . ( Phony stat that alot of Jets are buying into) I don't like Jets safeties and their LB's in coverage. There isn't a CB on the Jets defense that scares an offensive coordinator like Revis use to.
    I'm tired of this conversation and will just wait till season over wityh to see if I was right or wrong on this one.
    Please tell us how you KNOW Davis will be bad in coverage?? What body of work have you watched that you have come to that conclusion? Do you even know who the Jets safeties are right now? You fabricate more crap on this site than anyone, and are wrong the vast majority of the time. I realize most Raider fans do not speak English or are incarcerated, but there has to be a better place for you to spend your time than here.

  5. #85
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    One of the most ignorant arguments I have heard on here, stating the Jets pass defense will be bad because their OLBs can't cover. wow. Yeah that is really what they want out of the position, its not about their ability to get after the QB, lets drop a big man out into coverage, total waste of time... yeah there are some zone plays that you drop them into coverage, but for the most time that is wasting their skill set to drop into coverage, let the smaller guys cover and the big men get after the QB... Its a waste of talent having guys like Suggs, Ware, Miller, and Smith dropping back into coverage. They are getting paid to get after the QB.

    Talking about Coples coverage skills is a waste of time since the percentage he will be out in coverage is very small. Ignorant people to the sport will say "well hes a OLB so now he has to cover", that is not true at all, he is basically a DE.He'll probably end up havign his hand in the dirt the majority of the time. A very small percentage of the time will he actually have to cover and it will be in zone. This move wasn't about having Coples cover guys, it was about having Coples get after the QB.

    Our LB pass coverage won't be any worse than its been the past 4 years when we had top pass defenses each season... If anything we got faster at LB this year. Davis will be a upgrade in pass coverage to Scot.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    Please tell us how you KNOW Davis will be bad in coverage?? What body of work have you watched that you have come to that conclusion? Do you even know who the Jets safeties are right now? You fabricate more crap on this site than anyone, and are wrong the vast majority of the time. I realize most Raider fans do not speak English or are incarcerated, but there has to be a better place for you to spend your time than here.
    Raiders are going to be the worst team in the NFL next yr. I'm talking 1-15 bad.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjetsb View Post
    Dip****....pace is going to be a part time player, not like last year. I'm not sure where he factors in on depthchart but i'm sure that he's not going to be playing the same role. Second, Vernon Gholston was being asked to play OLB, when he was clearly better suited for a DE role, Richardson is playing Tackle and his biggest asset is his versatility...No ProFootballFocus did not say that, that was football outsiders, and they continue to say that along with the fact that they hated shonn greene ranking him 25th in efficiency. I've read the knocks on Dee Millner, congrats you gleaned one piece of information, I love how you have failed to mention any of the positives about these players, rather, you comment (poorly) on all of the potential deficiencies. If you want to look at broad swath of information and draw a conclusion that's fine, but have some stats to back up your claims fella, especially when they're so ass backwards. If you take a look at every potential outcome and say hey...I think all of these bad outcomes will happen, then sure yes, your positions hold water, but do you really think every single worst case scenario will come true? Probably not. And why do you keep saying the Jets "Big Front 7" like they're a bunch of lumbering, leadfooted nosetackles...At what position are they oversized?
    Sure pace isn't going to have the same role but if you think he isn't going to play some big minutes on Jets defense than your fooling yourself. (he knows this Jets defense like the back of his hand). Why he was brought back to the team.

    Jet's tried Vernon Gholston at LB and DE and he just wasn't very good. ( zero sacks in his NFl career) MY point there was It doesn't matter what Richardson did in college, as there is no guarantee he will be as effective in the pro game.

    I haven't listed the positives of these players? Did they play an NFL game that I don't know about. You can look at all the positives from all the players coming out that turned out to be busts. Did it really matter the positive the scouts said was working in there favor.
    Your counting on these players like they are going to be ready to produce from day One.( can we say we know that to be the case) DT historically coming from college ranks usually take a year or two to get comfortable in the pro game.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Sure pace isn't going to have the same role but if you think he isn't going to play some big minutes on Jets defense than your fooling yourself. (he knows this Jets defense like the back of his hand). Why he was brought back to the team.

    Jet's tried Vernon Gholston at LB and DE and he just wasn't very good. ( zero sacks in his NFl career) MY point there was It doesn't matter what Richardson did in college, as there is no guarantee he will be as effective in the pro game.

    I haven't listed the positives of these players? Did they play an NFL game that I don't know about. You can look at all the positives from all the players coming out that turned out to be busts. Did it really matter the positive the scouts said was working in there favor.
    Your counting on these players like they are going to be ready to produce from day One.( can we say we know that to be the case) DT historically coming from college ranks usually take a year or two to get comfortable in the pro game.
    My point is it's a crapshoot, a calculated gamble. If you assume every player is going to be a bust, you're going to be wrong just the same as if you posit that every player is going to be a HOFer. Considering the fact that 2 of the players on the defense are going to be rookies, and the rest are 2 and third year players coming in to their own, I'd think (by your logic) there should be improvement in the play of wilkerson, ellis, coples, allen, bush and demario davis right?

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by detjetsfan View Post
    Raiders are going to be the worst team in the NFL next yr. I'm talking 1-15 bad.
    That's your opinion and you entitle to believe that . Just like you can believe Jets will beat the Raiders too. Hey it's your dream, and no sense ruining that till December 8, 2013.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjetsb View Post
    My point is it's a crapshoot, a calculated gamble. If you assume every player is going to be a bust, you're going to be wrong just the same as if you posit that every player is going to be a HOFer. Considering the fact that 2 of the players on the defense are going to be rookies, and the rest are 2 and third year players coming in to their own, I'd think (by your logic) there should be improvement in the play of wilkerson, ellis, coples, allen, bush and demario davis right?
    Where did I say anyone was going to be a bust. We just don't know till they play a game. Or both just might need more time before they are ready to emerge at the NFl level. Beside Wilkerson and Coples have we seen enough of the rest to say one way or the other they are ready to come on. YEs one or a couple could emerge in there second season( that happens and obviously it good news for the Jets defense), but untill they do you can't count on it.
    They are called question marks for a reason. Only time will tell what the future holds for these rookies and second and third year players. Nobody knows. That why its silly to say this could be the greatest Jet defense ever. (that more hope than anything else.
    Last edited by Raider9175; 05-13-2013 at 02:41 PM.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Where did I say anyone was going to be a bust. We just don't know till they play a game. Or both just might need more time before they are ready to emerge at the NFl level. Beside Wilkerson and Coples have we seen enough of the rest to say one way or the other they are ready to come on. YEs one or a couple could emerge in there second season( that happens and obviously it good news for the Jets defense), but untill they do you can't count on it.
    They are called question marks for a reason. Only time will tell what the future holds for these rookies and second and third year players. Nobody knows. That why its silly to say this could be the greatest Jet defense ever. (that more hope than anything else.
    Who is saying that?! Not one person said this is going to be the greatest Jet defense ever. All I know is, historically, Rex Ryan's defenses here have been in the top 10 every year (using DVOA as the metric). Last year they were ninth, and the addition of some quality young players while aging slow veterans departed should not lower their ranking.

  12. #92
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    Having Defensive Tackles play OLB will be the new recipe for success in the NFL!!!!

    Pace as a backup ILB is hilarious.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by FijiJet View Post


    Now you're just talking out of your ass, um sorry is that your face??

    Here are some more thoughts I would like to try Garay at FB or as a goal line carrier because he is so explosive as a pass rushing NT, he could also try drop kicks for the surprise factor because his hello kitty smart car makes me think of kickalicious. I think you get the point by now...
    how old are you ?

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjetsb View Post
    You're dumber than a bag of avocados.

    The base defense got quicker via subtracting scott, devito, pace, and bell in an attempt to be able to cover the mismatches which plagued them in 2009-2012 (TEs and RBs). Incidentally, this will allow them to get around the outside, and stop some of those massive runs to guys like your boy DMC.

    So let me get this stragiht about the pass d. They improved their interior pass rush by drafting an exponentially superior athlete to Devito at the DT position, they're moving arguably their best rusher to a position which is called RUSH linebacker whose job, shocker, is to RUSH the qb (See suggs, mario williams), they're starting a WLB who profootball focus named one of their breakout candidates for 2013, and upgraded Kyle Wilson (Remember Revis didn't play for 14 games last year) to the #1 CB in the draft, and you think they're going to regress in pass defense. Must be that cali tree....If anything I'm more concerned about their rush d, Ellis or whoever ends up playing nose, needs to step up.
    Agreed 90210 is pretty dumb. Knowing the behaviour of that ignorant wretch, he'll come back with some lengthy post devoid of facts and logic then crow about his useless Raiders. He's just jealous the Jets got Milliner and they had to settle for Hayden.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage69 View Post
    Just wondering do you also question BB's defensive moves??
    Constantly, his defensive backfield schemes since Mangini left leave me perplexed. He plays zone some games and man others

    Him moving to a 4 man front but still have the three inside guys 2 gap and read and react is a head scratcher.

    I hated the cutting of Lloyd and Merriweather.

    I am a typical fan who can't understand why great coaches don't see things the way I do.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    No. He's obsessed with trolling the jets and throwing water on any parade.
    I question Rex's moves, sure- why not. But putting Richardson at OLB and Wilson who never played zone at FS, and stating that Barnes can play the run is not a Rex proposal but a Fans. If i "rain on a parade" I try to give a somewhat thoughtful take on it, it is not like I always play devils advocate. What did I say that you disagree with?

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    I question Rex's moves, sure- why not. But putting Richardson at OLB and Wilson who never played zone at FS, and stating that Barnes can play the run is not a Rex proposal but a Fans. If i "rain on a parade" I try to give a somewhat thoughtful take on it, it is not like I always play devils advocate. What did I say that you disagree with?
    I just don't understand why any fan would want to start a DT at what is ostensibly the Sam-Backer position...considering DeMario is already slotted at WLB, Coples is at RushLB, and Harris is the Mike...who would be penciled in at DT? I agree, it does not make a ton of sense...Or why Wilson would be a free safety...It seems like the poster saw a few snippits about Richardson playing LB for a couple plays and maybe read a post about Wilson playing FS. Wilson is a nickel corner, and a great one. Why change it? He goes two directions really well against similarly sized receivers. He would get destroyed by TEs.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Again i'm sticking my my guns. The Jets big front seven might help stop the run but I think Jets are going to be exposed against the pass.
    Maybe, but definitely not by the joke of a team you call the Raiders.

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    I fixed the thread title mis-spellings. Couldn't look at it anymore.

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