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Thread: Cimini: Sunday notes: Idzik's first two blemishes

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
    I take everything Raider says with a pinch of salt, I skim-read all he has to say.

    My Brady and Rodgers point was just because multiple teams pass on you, it does not mean their evaluation is accurate.

    My response was a general reply to the whole point of raiders post, it just came across as a pointless post to discredit the Geno selection.

    To be honest I think the Geno pick has ruffled some feathers in NFL circles, people don't want to accept we may have got a franchise QB for an absolute steal.
    Problem is that you are conflating "perception" and reality here. Brady is the perfect example. Anyone with anything closely resembling a clue will readily admit that not a single NFL team viewed him as a "Franchise QB". That's why he was skipped over time after time after time.

    Harrier's statement deals with team perceptions. He's not saying that you can't pick up a QB in later rounds who will turn out to be a "Franchise QB".

    Here's the statement in question:

    Franchise Qb don't fall out of the top five, if teams think that Qb can be a franchise QB. Not one single team thought Geno Smith was a franchise QB. Now Could he develop into one. Without a doubt.
    He's absolutely correct. No team thought that Geno was a "Franchise QB", which is why he went in the 2nd round. He also states that it's possible that Geno could end up becoming a franchise QB.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Franchise Qb don't fall out of the top five, if teams think that Qb can be a franchise QB. Not one single team thought Geno Smith was a franchise QB. Now Could he develop into one. Without a doubt. Drafting Qb's is a crap shoot unless you get lucky and have a chance to draft a premier talent. Manning, Luck, RG111)


    The Point being Qb needy teams always seem to try and elevate Qb that have no business going that early, much early than they should. That reaching usually turns out to be a mistake. That didn't happen this year(outside of the Bills) every teams took a chance on a QB much later in the draft.(risk isn't as great)

    If Jets thought Geno Smith was a franchise QB(had no doubts they don't pass on him twice in the first round.
    Like I alluded to one of these Qbs drafted this year, will probably turn out to be a top Qb. Which Qb that becomes is anyone guess at this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Demosthenes9 View Post
    Problem is that you are conflating "perception" and reality here. Brady is the perfect example. Anyone with anything closely resembling a clue will readily admit that not a single NFL team viewed him as a "Franchise QB". That's why he was skipped over time after time after time.

    Harrier's statement deals with team perceptions. He's not saying that you can't pick up a QB in later rounds who will turn out to be a "Franchise QB".

    Here's the statement in question:



    He's absolutely correct. No team thought that Geno was a "Franchise QB", which is why he went in the 2nd round. He also states that it's possible that Geno could end up becoming a franchise QB.
    Your right, I over emphasised the whole "Qb's who drop out the top 5 can't be franchise QB's"

    The rest of my reply was a generalised response to question the very point of the post.

    Raider says in the second paragraph-"The Point being Qb needy teams always seem to try and elevate Qb that have no business going that early"

    Firstly I do think Geno had business going earlier then he did, and I don't get a perception that we as fans have attempted to enhance or elevate Geno's credentials to anything more then a first round talent.

    Just seems like a blatant attempt to sabotage any positivity towards a prospect we "hope" can transition into a franchise player.

    Your points are well taken though.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by nybaseball5 View Post
    SAR,

    I usually agree with most of what you say. I am a lurker who enjoys your posts and I think what you say usually makes a lot of sense, especially when it comes to Mark Sanchez.

    That being said. I think your jumping the gun about a between QB, pass catching RB and an effective TE. Yes, the Garard and Goodson pickups have failed, but who knew this was going to happen. Lets see what happens after training camp cuts. I am almost sure there may be some decent options out there.
    Agree completely that Idzik has time to get the blunders of the past month corrected. He's got a tough cap mess to clean up, has gotten rid of the right players.

    But, for now, he is blemished.

    SAR I

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Agree completely that Idzik has time to get the blunders of the past month corrected. He's got a tough cap mess to clean up, has gotten rid of the right players.

    But, for now, he is blemished.

    SAR I


    LOOK AT ME!!!!!!!!

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post


    LOOK AT ME!!!!!!!!
    Ray

    Please try and not quote the troll's shtick. Most Jet fans have him on ignore and needn't read his baloney second hand

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    Ray

    Please try and not quote the troll's shtick. Most Jet fans have him on ignore and needn't read his baloney second hand
    Why don't you actually like, ignore him? We all know you don't like him and purportedly have him on ignore, but yet you are constantly talking about him. It's a bit tiresome, to be honest.

  7. #87
    Idzik has had a good offseason, netting a 1st round pick for Revis when everyone knew the Jets were going to trade him.

    Also getting the best QB in the draft in the 2nd round without trading a draft pick.

    Good Job!!

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Jetworks View Post
    Why don't you actually like, ignore him? We all know you don't like him and purportedly have him on ignore, but yet you are constantly talking about him. It's a bit tiresome, to be honest.
    sg3? Actually ignore the people he claims are on his ignore list?



    That's just RICH!

  9. #89
    A very famous guy everyone would know told me that Cimini is the King of the UnNamed Source.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    T he dick forgot to mention his tweet demeaning a female espn colleague
    Which he was suspended for a week for by ESPN. His precious Twitter account, which has given us such gems as "[McManus's work] is sh!t" and Kendrick Ellis "is a druggie" was dark for seven days.

    Get Fcuked, Dick C.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by extra714 View Post
    A very famous guy everyone would know told me that Cimini is the King of the UnNamed Source.
    Did you need someone to point that out?

  12. #92
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    everyone hates cimini........my question is...why even read his articles??? lol I do not read what he writes....its that simple. The same people get riled at everything he writes...who cares? The Jets are in great hands with Idzik...screw what some media person has to say.

  13. #93
    Dumb article but not surprosing considering the source. Goodson never had any serious off-the field issues prior to signing with the Jets. This incident came from out of nowhere. Garrard was a cheap insurance policy for Sanchez that cost us nothing and was infinitely preferable to giving up picks and/or millions in cap room for overrated scrubs like Alex Smith or Matt Flynn.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by david1023 View Post
    You also can't argue with the fact the losing Garrard and Goodson barely puts a dent on the team. One guy is retiring and the other is a stupid JAG. Are they that irreplacable?
    A stupid jag, what other player got close to the money he got. The jets needed every dollar this off season.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    It's year 1 of a total offensive rebuild but for Brick and Mangold. If you are implying you expected it to be resolved in a single off-season, then you are delusional or just using the setbacks as convenient tools to continue your agenda. This will be a several year process. You know that.
    This is not year one of the rebuild, actually it's the season of the purge. This team has never done any rebuild or change correctly. A new GM should bring in his team of guys, but woody will not let him. This team has less talent than last season. Getting better by subtraction is bulls!t. If the players being released sucked, can you imagine the quality of the backups? This is a purge, many of the playrs drafted by tanny and rex may not be here next season. This team will suck for at least 2-3 years, how an it be any better? No QB, no running game, no receiers, no TE's, the worst O line period., D'brick and Mangold are not that good. The circus has just begun.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by srobjets View Post
    This is not year one of the rebuild, actually it's the season of the purge. This team has never done any rebuild or change correctly. A new GM should bring in his team of guys, but woody will not let him. This team has less talent than last season. Getting better by subtraction is bulls!t. If the players being released sucked, can you imagine the quality of the backups? This is a purge, many of the playrs drafted by tanny and rex may not be here next season. This team will suck for at least 2-3 years, how an it be any better? No QB, no running game, no receiers, no TE's, the worst O line period., D'brick and Mangold are not that good. The circus has just begun.
    Can you really be this dumb? This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen. I guess they didn't draft a CB, OL and DL, huh? Of course it's a rebuild, you dope. All rebuilds involve a purge of overpriced talent, underperforming slugs and worn down vets. Really, dude... just don't respond to me. I can deal with intelligent and/or witty trolls, but trolls that are flat out stupid cross the line. You must go away now. Your stupid gene is bothering the rest of us.

    *sigh*

    trolls

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
    How you doin raider?

    Yet again complete and utter garbage on your part, Brady and Rodgers are a few names that spring to mind of a franchise QB droppin out of the top 5.

    When do franchise QB's go? Number 1 overall alla-Jamarcus. You are in no position to talk logic about the QB position considering you made the worst trade in nfl history for one, and have Tyler Wilson and Matt Flynn as your future.

    Your just looking for an excuse to trash Geno because your scared the jets could be onto a winner. Not all teams that passed on him needed a QB and he was a nailed on top ten talent in January.

    Teams that passed also included the bills who reached for a franchise QB more than the jets, what would your opinion be if the jets had made that selection?
    I said QB is the biggest crap shoot in the draft. Unless you have that rare talent. (Manning, Luck and RG111) There are more misses from the expert who draft well, on the QB position. case in point. The highest grade Ozzie Newsome has ever put on any prospect was Jamarcus Russell- fact.

    Still if teams thought Tom Brady , Joe Montana, Russelll wilson , and Geno Smith were that type of QB(they became) they would have picked them in the top five. Those teams won the lottery and found a franchise QB nobody thought they would become in the NFL. (how many times were each passed by teams)

    Again there will probably will be one Qb emerge from this draft class that becomes a very good QB. Who will it be is anyone guess. It could be Geno Smith, Tyler Wilson, or anyone else pick. The experts don't even know that answer , so what chance we have to pick that QB out.

    Only time will tell but this was a so called weak Qb draft class and no teams though there was a sure franchise QB in the bunch. Doesn't mean a QB can't prove the experts wrong again like Brady, J Montana and Russell wilson did.
    Last edited by Raider9175; 05-20-2013 at 09:19 AM.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    A stupid jag, what other player got close to the money he got. The jets needed every dollar this off season.
    They were 17 mil under the cap, try again.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    I said QB is the biggest crap shoot in the draft. Unless you have that rare talent. (Manning, Luck and RG111) There are more misses from the expert who draft well, on the QB position. case in point. The highest grade Ozzie Newsome has ever put on any prospect was Jamarcus Russell- fact.

    Still if teams thought Tom Brady , Joe Montana, Russelll wilson , and Geno Smith were that type of QB(they became) they would have picked them in the top five. Those teams won the lottery and found a franchise QB nobody thought they would become in the NFL. (how many times were each passed by teams)

    Again there will probably will be one Qb emerge from this draft class that becomes a very good QB. Who will it be is anyone guess. It could be Geno Smith, Tyler Wilson, or anyone else pick. The experts don't even know that answer , so what chance we have to pick that QB out.

    Only time will tell but this was a so called weak Qb draft class and no teams though there was a sure franchise QB in the bunch. Doesn't mean a QB can't prove the experts wrong again like Brady, J Montana and Russell wilson did.

    You can't say geno Smith could have been the number 1 pick in the draft. Everyone that was drafted believe they could have been the guy too. Geno Smith fell down to the second round for a reason. (had nothing to do with interview process) Jets had two number 1 picks and they passed on Geno twice - franchise qb ( QB most important position) . Does that sound like a QB they didn't have a doubt about.
    You can't say that if they were a better prospect they would have gone higher. You have to take into account who is picking in the top 5. Do they need a QB? Does another team need one bad enough to trade a kings ransom to move up to take a risk on a QB? It's not just the talent, it's a combo of factors. Teams look at the players available and who is picking between their picks. The Jets wanted Geno, thought about taking him at 13. They looked at the board and correctly decided that he would probably be there for them to grab in the 2nd. Thats what smart GMs do, didn't panic and grab him at 13. It was like they added another player or pick by waiting.

    The rest will be decided over time. QB's taken in just about every round have close to the same physical talent. Its mind, commitment and development. Some have it, some don't and never will.

  20. #100
    I kinda think the Jarrard thing is a bit of a blemish..

    I know he was a risk.. and probably did have a good workout..

    But the fact he hadn't played in two years was a huge sign..

    I can only hope he felt this might happen going into the draft..

    I will say in regards to Goodson that those are the only things we can afford..

    We are trying to clean the cap and hoping talented players that can get their life figured out is our only hope this season..

    It turned out to be an embarrassing result. But as it turns out we really have to keep him... We are just that weak in the position..

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