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Thread: the Numbers with the Marty Mornhinweg Offense

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnus View Post
    LOL this is perfect. Sanchez biggest success was when they ran the ball more than 50% of the time and relied on the defense to keep it close. Now you are telling me we are installing an offense that puts the burden on the QB? HAHAHHAHA This competition wont last very long. The only way Sanchez beats Mcelroy for the second string is if the Jets just give it to him to avoid the embarrassment.
    If the Jets don't cut Sanchez (which they won't) then he will at very minimal be the backup. I think he will be better than years past, but still not stellar. We will see.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cablebob View Post
    If the Jets don't cut Sanchez (which they won't) then he will at very minimal be the backup. I think he will be better than years past, but still not stellar. We will see.
    They will do exactly what they did with Tebow. After camp it became clear to them that Mcelroy was the better QB than Tebow but still listed Tebow as the second QB. Once they had to put in a QB though it was Mcelroy who got the call not Tebow.

    Greg Mceroy has never had a lot of reps or any with the ones. If given a fair shot in the competition it will become clear that he is better than Sanchez.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Nut View Post
    And you think that Sanchez will be the QB of this team?

    He's as unsuited for this offense as Tebow.
    Yes, I believe Mark Sanchez is the most likely QB to start openign day as the #1 QB.

    Unless the competition is rigged (and it may be), I do not believe Smith will beat out Sanchez, in the eyes of Coach Ryan, and win the job.

    Long term, yes, Smith would win out. But not in his rookie year, no.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    Yes, I believe Mark Sanchez is the most likely QB to start openign day as the #1 QB.

    Unless the competition is rigged (and it may be), I do not believe Smith will beat out Sanchez, in the eyes of Coach Ryan, and win the job.

    Long term, yes, Smith would win out. But not in his rookie year, no.
    There isn't a way that a HC could push that train wreck of a QB out onto the field without losing the faith of locker room. There can't be more than a couple of players on the team that want to hear that Sanchez is the starter, Basically telling the team that it has no chance of winning, having Sanchez tanking another valuable season off of their career. Players want to win more than anything, they know there is no chance with Sanchez. Two seasons they got to the playoffs in spite of Sanchez, two seasons they missed the playoffs because of him. Even if he outplays Geno in camp, Geno gives the team hope. Sanchez does not and you can't have a roster that doesn't buy in.
    Last edited by Jet Nut; 05-20-2013 at 11:04 AM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN View Post
    very true. Sanchez seems to have a tough time with quick decisions and he struggles mightily with screen passes and slants. But the system does seem to fit Geno well.
    This system is not being installed for Sanchize. It's for a new starting QB and hopefully Geno can do it well, it certainly suits him.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIJetFan View Post
    I am not a Sanchez hater but I think he is very poorly suited to this offense.
    I only agree when with that when it comes time for him to have to run.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCITSCAT View Post
    This system is not being installed for Sanchize. It's for a new starting QB and hopefully Geno can do it well, it certainly suits him.
    Marty was hired knowing that Sanchez's days as the starting QB were over.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Nut View Post
    There isn't a way that a HC could push that train wreck of a QB out onto the field without losing the faith of locker room.
    Players are at practice too. If he outplays Geno, He outplays Geno he deserves the start. The only way rex loses the team is if it's blatant favoritism. Which won't happen. I think rex's lust for Sanchez has diminished greatly.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Nut View Post
    There isn't a way that a HC could push that train wreck of a QB out onto the field without losing the faith of locker room.
    I believe sentiments such as that as purely a fan-creation, not a reflection of how an NFL locker room actually operates.

    Basically telling the team that it has no chance of winning, having Sanchez tanking another valuable season off of their career.
    Assumes every player agress that Smith is better, but the staff doesn't. It's far more likely that if Sanchez wins the job, the players playing with him would also agree he won the job. If a veteran sees the rookie handed the job, despite being outplayed by a fellow veteran, he is just as likely to be displeased as he can see his own future replacement. Players, generally, are supportive of "best man plays", not "cheapest rookie long-term-plan plays".

    Also assumes that players think a rookie will provide them more than sanchez is terms of individual performence and opportunity, which may also not be the case.

    Players want to win more than anything, they know there is no chance with Sanchez.
    Again, I'd say that this sentiment "win above all else" is pure fan fiction. Players care about many things just as much as winning (money, for example, personal performence (which leads to money) as well) and they, like fans, have plenty of their own preferences and biases. Do you think Sanchez hasn't made any friends in his four years?

    Even if he outplays Geno in camp, Geno gives the team hope.
    So you think an NFL player gets more "hope" from an outplayed rookie? Again, we must seperate Fan opinions from NFL reality. Players do not rely on "hope" the way fans do, nor to players plan the long-game the way fans are happy to.

    I.e. It's easy for a fan to say "play the rookie even if outplayed in camp", but no so easy for a veteran player to want to play through an outplayed rookies learning curve when they need to be cathcing balls themselves, and could (possibly) do better with Sanchez.

    Sanchez does not and you can't have a roster that doesn't buy in.
    I would summarize that "the roster that doesn't buy in" is, IMO, fan fiction based on purely fan-based thinking.
    Last edited by Churchill; 05-20-2013 at 11:14 AM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Nut View Post
    Marty was hired knowing that Sanchez's days as the starting QB were over.
    I tend to agree.

  11. #31
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    I believe sentiments such as that as purely a fan-creation, not a reflection of how an NFL locker room actually operates.
    Actually I took those words from numerous comments from players.

    Assumes every player agress that Smith is better, but the staff doesn't. It's far more likely that if Sanchez wins the job, the players playing with him would also agree he won the job. If a veteran sees the rookie handed the job, despite being outplayed by a fellow veteran, he is just as likely to be displeased as he can see his own future replacement. Players, generally, are supportive of "best man plays", not "cheapest rookie long-term-plan plays".
    No, it assumes players aren't stupid, they've also seen Marks resume, know even more than us how much he sucks.

    Also assumes that players think a rookie will provide them more than sanchez is terms of individual performence and opportunity, which may also not be the case.
    Again, they know Mark cost them 2 seasons. On average they have 4. They don't have a fans patience

    Again, I'd say that this sentiment "win above all else" is pure fan fiction. Players care about many things just as much as winning (money, for example, personal performence (which leads to money) as well) and they, like fans, have plenty of their own preferences and biases. Do you think Sanchez hasn't made any friends in his four years?
    All of that takes place whether they won or not. Money, performance etc. Not making the playoffs, not playing playoff games on national tv, the only game on, gets them money. Playoff games, prime time games, exposure on the national level makes them money. They control and get $$ due to performance no matter what. They want to win and win now. Their careers could be over on the next play. Again, all from the mouths of players, not pure guess work.

    So you think an NFL player gets more "hope" from an outplayed rookie? Again, we must seperate Fan opinions from NFL reality. Players do not rely on "hope" the way fans do, nor to players plan the long-game the way fans are happy to.

    I.e. It's easy for a fan to say "play the rookie even if outplayed in camp", but no so easy for a veteran player to want to play through an outplayed rookies learning curve when they need to be cathcing balls themselves, and could (possibly) do better with Sanchez.
    When it's a case of one player who cost you 2 seasons, its not just a fan thing.

    We'll see soon enough though.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Nut View Post

    There isn't a way that a HC could push that train wreck of a QB out onto the field without losing the faith of locker room.
    How about you follow your own advice and listen to the locker room.

    Not a single Jet past or present has said anything about Mark Sanchez other-than he has had dog-sh!t to throw the ball to. The only people throwing Mark Sanchez under the bus are some naive fans on a discussion forum.

    SAR I

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Nut View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill
    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Nut
    There isn't a way that a HC could push that train wreck of a QB out onto the field without losing the faith of locker room.
    I believe sentiments such as that as purely a fan-creation, not a reflection of how an NFL locker room actually operates.
    Actually I took those words from numerous comments from players.
    Source please. I am not aware of any Jets play saying "There isn't a way that a HC could push that train wreck of a QB out onto the field without losing the faith of locker room".

    But if you have a source, I'd be happy to read it.

    The rest of your points simply reiterates a fan-projected opinion onto players, a point (again) I simply do not believe is accurate in the majority.

    We'll see soon enough though.
    Indeed.

    If Mark Sanchez materially outplays Smith in camp and pre-season, but Smith starts opening day, and the players say nothing in support of Sanchez, then your point will have been proven out.
    Last edited by Churchill; 05-20-2013 at 12:05 PM.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Nut View Post
    Actually I took those words from numerous comments from players.



    No, it assumes players aren't stupid, they've also seen Marks resume, know even more than us how much he sucks.



    Again, they know Mark cost them 2 seasons. On average they have 4. They don't have a fans patience



    All of that takes place whether they won or not. Money, performance etc. Not making the playoffs, not playing playoff games on national tv, the only game on, gets them money. Playoff games, prime time games, exposure on the national level makes them money. They control and get $$ due to performance no matter what. They want to win and win now. Their careers could be over on the next play. Again, all from the mouths of players, not pure guess work.



    When it's a case of one player who cost you 2 seasons, its not just a fan thing.

    We'll see soon enough though.
    Still there's a lot of conjecture in your statements and I'm not comfortable with so many sweeping statements and little evidence to hang these on.

    That said, I'll also go out on a limb and say that Sanchez just might suprise a lot of people this season. Morny is a smart guy and said in earlier interviews even before the draft that he saw a lot of talent and potential that the Jets had in house. Since he's such a smart coordinator it's not unreasonable to expect that he'll have certain packages and play calls tailored to individual qb's esp Sanchez's strengths much moreso than Sparano and Shoddy who considered any other line of thought than their rigid game plan as not worth considering and basically worthless.The recommitment to the OL and rb's support Sanchez's strengths of play action and screens, throwing on the run more than the naysayers are willing to admit.
    I for one am not running of Sanchez who still has time, talent, motivation, opportunity and environment to turn the ship around.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apache 51 View Post
    I only agree when with that when it comes time for him to have to run.
    He is one of the most inaccurate short-passers I have ever seen. Do you expect this to change?

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohio State NY Jets fan View Post
    Yes, this could be a very good thing plus it could be fun to watch (unlike last year), and love the fact that MM had a fullback with 60 receptions in one year when you consider the 215th pick was "Touchdown" Tommy Bohanon

    Do you think they wil drop the 3rd and 12 draw play up the middle from the playbook?
    That 3rd and 12 draw killed me every time...it was so predictable and rarely worked.

    Everyone is talking about a whole new offense....and I agree. However, expect major growing pains from team that has been going through OC's more frequently than some people change their underwear. This is not a tweaking of the offense, this is an overhaul and the players need time to adjust and re learn the plays. So, for that reason, I don't think Sanchez can be the starter. Why break him in and get him used to the new offense just to cut him at the end of the year....both him and Geno face a learning curve, invest the time in your future QB, not a 1 and done....unless they are thinking that Sanchez may be a Jet longer? ugh

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    How about you follow your own advice and listen to the locker room.

    Not a single Jet past or present has said anything about Mark Sanchez other-than he has had dog-sh!t to throw the ball to. The only people throwing Mark Sanchez under the bus are some naive fans on a discussion forum.

    SAR I
    Not sure which games you were watching, SAR. He is horribly inaccurate and has no touch whatsoever on short passes. Four years are enough to reach this conclusion. Yes, his receivers have not been great but he has made them look truly awful. His completion percentage is remarkably abysmal. Almost unheard of for a starter. While it may be fun to blame everything on the front office (for not supplying him stud receivers), four years of close examination make clear that he is a VERY big part of the problem. In fact, probably the biggest part.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIJetFan View Post
    He is one of the most inaccurate short-passers I have ever seen. Do you expect this to change?
    10-15 yards I think he can handle. He doesn't have Cooper, Djax, or Maclin but we know he can hit Holmes on the slant, and hit his big target TE's, would love for him to have a Celek type. Out in the flat is what concerns me the most.

  19. #39
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    Particularly with Sanchez, we need to turn the QB into a robot. He needs to take the snap, look at his primary, then go to secondary, then check down to a RB...and if not there, throw it away....all in 5 seconds. No more creativity, no more running around and holding the ball with one hand while he points with his other.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    How about you follow your own advice and listen to the locker room.

    Not a single Jet past or present has said anything about Mark Sanchez other-than he has had dog-sh!t to throw the ball to. The only people throwing Mark Sanchez under the bus are some naive fans on a discussion forum.

    SAR I
    Actually I wouldn't expect a teammate to complain to the media. That means the sh1t bags are gone.

    Its a far stretch and failed logic to therefore conclude that he's liked or supported.

    As far as Jets past or present saying anything about Mark Sanchez other-than he has had dog-sh!t to throw the ball to....try Ray Lucas, Chris Jenkins, Joe Klecko and every person on the Jets post game show or Jet Nation broadcasts.

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