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Thread: Namath on Smith/Sanchez

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borgoguy View Post
    How is someone like you, with only a handful of posts, so erudite?
    funny


    I was gonna ask you the same exact thing, borgo, ya newbie

  2. #82
    Joe should be respected for what he accomplished with the jets as a player.. It's sad the media uses him to ramble and stir up stories because the guy is shot mentally.. But he does entertain http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ynbqA7tS4eg

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Brown View Post
    First I am an extremely big fan of yours and your posts.

    I am not a Sanchez apologist or anything else. I am however a big fan if the NYJs.

    And the flaws that I bring up about the OL, WRs or coaching staff are concerns I have had about the way the Jets had been run since Mangini was here.

    The issue isn't Sanchez.

    The issue was do the Jets have a comprehensive plan to build an offensive scheme around their QB either Smith or whomever. Getting poorer and poorer skilled positions in the offensive side and somehow expecting superior offensive performance on offensel never made any sense to me and was proven to be a stupid approach.

    I feel that the Jets were listening to their own hype way to much. Who called Sanchez the Franchise? Sanchez didn't?

    A player comes in as the starting QB with one year college experience and the Jets expect him to perform at the level of a HOF QB (Farve)?

    This is planning? You bank in this if you are the Jets?

    The Jets have been this way for 40 years.

    IMO it is winning time and I don't believe that need have anything to do with Mark Sanchez. I just want everyone starting right now to be on a level playing field and for the jets to have a plan fo r the QBs protection and development no matter who that player may be!!!!
    You can't separate the QB from a comprehensive plan to build an offensive scheme.

    Mark was never asked to be a pro-bowl quality QB coming out of USC. He was asked to run a fairly simple risk free offense that had a great OL and running game. He was mediocre at that.

    He did flash a few times most notably against NE in the playoffs in 2010. For the most part he has been underwhelming and a mistake away from disaster regardless of the quality of talent around him.

    When the talent deteriorated he not only didn't lead he sulked and most of the time made the defense he played against look better than they were.

    Sanchez didn't come out with a great arm, size, a great release or any other amazing physical tools. What he came out with was a top pedigree of coaching going back to pee wee football. He came out during a weak draft class onto a team that was loaded on both sides of the ball. He did okay.

    For Mark Sanchez with his tool set to be a great NFL QB he needs to have incredible vision and decision making, none of which he has shown to date.

    After 4 years the best that can be said about him is a few defensive backs agents have some great tape to show NFL GM's when they are negotiating their next contract.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Sanchez may or may not be a moderately successful QB in the NFL. Make no mistake Vinny with all of his issues had way more natural talent than Mark has. They aren't in the same zip code as far as ceilings.
    Never said they were

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevisCroWilson View Post
    He started drinking again thats why. I love Joe Namath but some of the **** he says sometimes is complete non sense.
    You are a moron. Do you even know how to read? ****ing retard.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by shevys View Post
    You are a moron. Do you even know how to read? ****ing retard.
    Yes I do know how to read and anyone that has any faith in mark sanchez is a fuktard. Hey mods I've been banned for a lot less...

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    I am unhappy.

    Our O, unbelievably, is worse than last year. All we're going to learn is if a Bottom 5 offense run by a Top 16 offensive coordinator can produce a .500 record, hardly the litmus needed to validate if Mark's problem is ability or lack of support.

    Just like the HC, the QB is set up to fail, we'll learn nothing and progress nowhere in this miserable season. I don't mind a rebuild; I mind treading water.

    SAR I
    We have a better rb...same tightend with more experience since keller barely played last year and upgraded offensive line with depth and a soon to be healthy santonio Holmes and two wrs in kerley and hill that have more experience. I'm not saying that is great but it's not worse than last year.

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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevisCroWilson View Post
    Yes I do know how to read and anyone that has any faith in mark sanchez is a fuktard. Hey mods I've been banned for a lot less...

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
    Has nothing to do with Sanchez. Has everything to do with you slandering the only living legend this team had ever had. Figure it out.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by shevys View Post
    Has nothing to do with Sanchez. Has everything to do with you slandering the only living legend this team had ever had. Figure it out.
    Haha fuk off It was a joke....he was better when he woukd drink.

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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevisCroWilson View Post
    Haha fuk off It was a joke....he was better when he woukd drink.

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    Here's a news flash for you, Braniac. A joke is supposed to be funny.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Brown View Post
    First I am an extremely big fan of yours and your posts.

    I am not a Sanchez apologist or anything else. I am however a big fan if the NYJs.

    And the flaws that I bring up about the OL, WRs or coaching staff are concerns I have had about the way the Jets had been run since Mangini was here.

    The issue isn't Sanchez.
    Make no mistake Sanchez is a problem. He is not the only one but he is a big one. Sanchez isn't a victim of horrible wrs. Yeah they may drop an occasional ball or make the wrong read for a route. No one is perfect most players make mental errors. The problem is Sanchez consistently makes bad decisions himself, at a rate that is alarming. Bret Farve made a lot of bad plays, but he made a lot of good plays too. Sanchez makes few good plays, very few. Looking at the stats Sanchez is close to a guaranteed 2 turnovers per game. He isn't the only problem but he is one. I hope he does better too for the Jets sake, but I don't expect it. I see the games I watch the mistakes it isn't always someone else's fault. Quite often it seems it is his. When you're good at throwing ints on screens off your Oline's back you are making bad plays.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanMadman View Post
    Make no mistake Sanchez is a problem. He is not the only one but he is a big one. Sanchez isn't a victim of horrible wrs. Yeah they may drop an occasional ball or make the wrong read for a route. No one is perfect most players make mental errors. The problem is Sanchez consistently makes bad decisions himself, at a rate that is alarming. Bret Farve made a lot of bad plays, but he made a lot of good plays too. Sanchez makes few good plays, very few. Looking at the stats Sanchez is close to a guaranteed 2 turnovers per game. He isn't the only problem but he is one. I hope he does better too for the Jets sake, but I don't expect it. I see the games I watch the mistakes it isn't always someone else's fault. Quite often it seems it is his. When you're good at throwing ints on screens off your Oline's back you are making bad plays.
    Well said and right on all points!

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by shevys View Post
    Here's a news flash for you, Braniac. A joke is supposed to be funny.
    Hey ****o maybe you should go grab a drink and chill the eff out dbag.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    Thank you. Thats very kind.



    Which, all thigs considered, I'd say all f us here are. We may disagree on X or Y, but if you're here (speaking generally) all day posting Jets, you're clearly a passionate dedicated fan.

    Unless you're a Pats Fan. Or a Troll. But they're rare.



    The concerns are not invalidated just because Sanchez has been horrible.

    Far too often, we fans get into "either/or" arguments, when the truth is usually somewhere in between and includesboth problems.

    I say Sanchez is horrible and needs replaced. You, or SAR, or others may say "no, our O-line and WR's and E's are horrible and need upgrading".

    Truth is, we're both right. Sanchez has done nothign with th talent he was provided, talent that would (with an average or better QB) shine brighter.

    Brighter.....but no bright per se. The WR's are middling, Holmes is a derp, Hill a droper and Kerley (IMO) the best of teh group just underutilized. If we HAD a great QB, we'd want to replce Holmes no question, demand Hill improve or else, and maybe keep Kerley.....the guy behind them, nobodies to this point.

    So it's a bit of both. We do not have all-pro WR's who can overcome Sanchez's deficientcies. But Sanchez simply does not make what little talent around him hehas better. He makes them worse



    As I said to SAR, we're simply not poorer.

    Idzik improved the O-line and RB position materially on-paper (all we have to jdge it by to this point).

    WR is the same. TE weaker due to the loss of the injury-prone Keller.

    What we lose at TE, we should gain in RB in the passing game, and the running game should be superior.

    We are better. On-paper. We won't know if paper is lying to us till they play games that count.



    I expect average. Not superior. Sanchez should eb average.

    Thus far, he isn't. He is the worst in the NFL in his 4 years. Dead last.



    Despite what Bellichek's imageconsultants want you to think, teams don't win by being humble. They win with Tom Brady at QB, not Mark Sanchez.



    Over four years, I xpect an average (ranked 15th or so) level from a QB drafted inthe top 6 in the first round.

    Sanchez was dead last last year.



    I don't bank on anything when it comes to the Jets.

    But I believe, based on my own viewing of every play of his career, that Sanchz is not good, is not getting better, has not developed, and has in fact gotten worse.

    Inaccuracy, mobillity, presence, ball handling. He is just not good in any of these areas.

    Worse, he lacks leadership and confidence, and it shows. He pouts. He sits alone. He doesn't demand better from his players. He can't....because far too often, the mistake made that turns it over, kills a drive, etc. was made not by his support, but by him, personally.

    I don't have any ill will for Mark Sanchez. If I could magicly make him Dan Marino, I would, seems like a decent, if a bit "Hollywood", kid.

    But combine all the factors, and he's just not a winner. Letting the excitement and enjoyment fo those two playoff runs fool us over four full horrific regular seasons is a mistake. However good e was in those games, he's far more bad during the seasons and was literally carried to those playoff games by the Running and D those years.
    You are not at odds to what I was saying.

    Your post doesn't make any sense with the record that I have in posting out here on JI concerning Sanchez.

    Indeed after Sanchez' first campaign I specfically said in several posts that Sanchez was not a QB who could carry a team and that he needed significant support to win games!!!!

    I said over three years ago in multiple posts that the Jets were ruining him and his trade value and that they should trade Sanchez then right then rather than ruin him with unrealistic expectations. Not give him more time to develop or extend his contract but TRADE HIM while he still had significant trade value!!!

    People's response then was "Ryan and Tanny know what they are doing and who the hell was I"... "look we got to the AFC championship etc...." And just "watch how great we are going to be on offense"

    Now when the very thing I said was going to happen, happens, that is, Sanchez couldn't carry the team by himself "that Sanchez was to young and inexperienced" these same folks are saying that I am some kind of Sanchez apologist.

    Look I am for the Jets team and a correctly run team at that and not Sanchez or ANY OTHER INDIVIDUAL PLAYER!!

    I will say it again so people who just want to sling mud instead of discussing football can get it. As a Jets fan any QB we have should have a quality OL, RBs who don't fall down by themselves when looked at and WRs who know which routes they are supposed to run.

    Those are not excuses....
    And those points at their core have nothing to do with Sanchez, Tebow Smith or any other QB the Jets put out there...

    Rather these points have everything to do with the previous regimes inability to build a coherent NFL football team based upon sound football principals.

    Also going even further, I dont care that we went to the Championship games and lost!!!!!

    WE LOST!!!!!

    As I said 10,000 times out here before no team in modern NFL history has ever gotten to let alone won an NFL championship with a QB having as little collegiate experience as Sanchez, NO ONE!!!!

    If the Jets thought that the Jets were a truly win then team, then the drafting of Sanchez was a mistake from day one!!!!

    And all pre draft assessments of Sanchez said as much!!
    Last edited by Charlie Brown; 05-22-2013 at 08:22 PM.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanMadman View Post
    Make no mistake Sanchez is a problem. He is not the only one but he is a big one. Sanchez isn't a victim of horrible wrs. Yeah they may drop an occasional ball or make the wrong read for a route. No one is perfect most players make mental errors. The problem is Sanchez consistently makes bad decisions himself, at a rate that is alarming. Bret Farve made a lot of bad plays, but he made a lot of good plays too. Sanchez makes few good plays, very few. Looking at the stats Sanchez is close to a guaranteed 2 turnovers per game. He isn't the only problem but he is one. I hope he does better too for the Jets sake, but I don't expect it. I see the games I watch the mistakes it isn't always someone else's fault. Quite often it seems it is his. When you're good at throwing ints on screens off your Oline's back you are making bad plays.
    Ok let me get this right you are comparing Sanchez to Farve arguably one of the top ten greatest QBs of all time....

    Yeah that makes perfect sense!!

    Well I am not going to do that...

    As I said before if the Jets were thinking they were drafting Farve, Luck or RGIII then they were the only ones on the planet who believed that...

    Why even Pete Carroll Sanchez' college coach said Sanchez WASN'T ready for the NFL but somehow the Jets in typical Jets fashion somehow convince themselves that they no more than everyone else in the NFL combined!!!

    Now when the chickens have come home to roost the team blames the player for their obvious ineptitude!!!

    Oh and do I think Sanchez played well last year no I do not.

    SANCHEZ WAS AWFULL!!

    But because Sanchez was bad does not absolve the rest of the team and the Jets coaching staff and FO from last years fiasco!!!

    That is all I have ever said!!!

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Brown View Post
    Ok let me get this right you are comparing Sanchez to Farve arguably one of the top ten greatest QBs of all time....

    Yeah that makes perfect sense!!

    Well I am not going to do that...

    As I said before if the Jets were thinking they were drafting Farve, Luck or RGIII then they were the only ones on the planet who believed that...

    Why even Pete Carroll Sanchez' college coach said Sanchez WASN'T ready for the NFL but somehow the Jets in typical Jets fashion somehow convince themselves that they no more than everyone else in the NFL combined!!!

    Now when the chickens have come home to roost the team blames the player for their obvious ineptitude!!!

    Oh and do I think Sanchez played well last year no I do not.

    SANCHEZ WAS AWFULL!!

    But because Sanchez was bad does not absolve the rest of the team and the Jets coaching staff and FO from last years fiasco!!!

    That is all I have ever said!!!
    I never said you stated otherwise. In fact when I quoted you I left the part where you said you were not an apologist so as to not frame it as if you were. I also said Sanchez was not the only problem. I was arguing your last point that sanchez was not the problem.

    I am not comparing Sanchez to Farve. I was using farve as an example of a guy who made a lot of bad plays, but you could live with it because he made a lot of good plays. I used farve because he is an obvious example since I had referenced Sanchez's turnovers. So yeah, it actually does make sense. If you'd like I could find a less prominent QB to make the same point.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanMadman View Post
    I never said you stated otherwise. In fact when I quoted you I left the part where you said you were not an apologist so as to not frame it as if you were. I also said Sanchez was not the only problem. I was arguing your last point that sanchez was not the problem.

    I am not comparing Sanchez to Farve. I was using farve as an example of a guy who made a lot of bad plays, but you could live with it because he made a lot of good plays. I used farve because he is an obvious example since I had referenced Sanchez's turnovers. So yeah, it actually does make sense. If you'd like I could find a less prominent QB to make the same point.
    No need I agree with you in your essential point that Sanchez is in fact a big problem hence the reason why three years ago I called for the Jets trading him if they couldnt give him the significant suport he would need to succeed...

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Current Jets with big mouths and Twitter accounts never said a negative word about Mark Sanchez.

    Current leaders like Antonio Cromartie defend Mark Sanchez on the grounds of no support around him.

    Hall Of Famers like Joe Namath praise Mark Sanchez and blast the Jets FO for lack of offensive focus and scapegoating someone who wasn't much worse than 20 other starters.

    Supposedly-loyal Jets fans on a fanboy forum continue to show their ignorance despite all evidence to the contrary of their paltry beliefs from people who actually are involved with the Jets organization.

    SORE I
    You know, why don't you STOP with your whole "They're not real fans like ME..." garbage?!

    YOU, SAR, are not a REAL FAN! You're the FARTHEST thing from it!
    You are simply a TICKET BROKER! NOTHING MORE!

    And you are NOT rich, either, you are a joke, a clown, a JESTER.
    A PAINFULLY insecure, entry-level BMW LEASING BABY!

    How many games are you going to, in your "Best seats in the house" this year????
    Oh, yeah... NONE!
    Selling your tickets for DOUBLE FACE, or at least trying your hardest to, yet "money is NO issue for SAR!"

    Why don't you get lost already and try to pimp your "STELLAR SEATS" to opposing teams websites? Do everyone a favor.

    OH, and one last thing. WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO SAVE YOU THE TROUBLE AND RUN TO A MOD CRYING ABOUT THIS "ATTACK" ???

    I'd LOVE to have a drink with YOU...

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman Harris View Post
    You know, why don't you STOP with your whole "They're not real fans like ME..." garbage?!

    YOU, SAR, are not a REAL FAN! You're the FARTHEST thing from it!
    You are simply a TICKET BROKER! NOTHING MORE!

    And you are NOT rich, either, you are a joke, a clown, a JESTER.
    A PAINFULLY insecure, entry-level BMW LEASING BABY!

    How many games are you going to, in your "Best seats in the house" this year????
    Oh, yeah... NONE!
    Selling your tickets for DOUBLE FACE, or at least trying your hardest to, yet "money is NO issue for SAR!"

    Why don't you get lost already and try to pimp your "STELLAR SEATS" to opposing teams websites? Do everyone a favor.

    OH, and one last thing. WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO SAVE YOU THE TROUBLE AND RUN TO A MOD CRYING ABOUT THIS "ATTACK" ???

    I'd LOVE to have a drink with YOU...
    Lol, why are you getting angry? Never get angry at an entertainer. Simply enjoy an amazing performance.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by McGinley View Post
    Lol, why are you getting angry? Never get angry at an entertainer. Simply enjoy an amazing performance.
    correct

    consider it open mic night at a very bad comedy club

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