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Thread: Martin/Zimmerman Trial

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    Zimmerman created this situation we can all agree on that, right?
    As we are both in LE you know that means nothing in and of itself. Zimmerman INITIATED the situation but that does not negate his self defense claim by default.

    If I initiate an altercation by getting in your face at a bar and pestering the sh!t out of you for no reason that doesn't give you the lawful right to beat me to death. Note that I'm NOT implying that Martin was in the process of beating Zimmerman to the point of being mortally wounded. Zimmerman has a lawful defense premise if he reasonably believed his life was in danger while Martin was clocking him for being a busybody pain in the ass.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotReign View Post
    As we are both in LE you know that means nothing in and of itself. Zimmerman INITIATED the situation but that does not negate his self defense claim by default.

    If I initiate an altercation by getting in your face at a bar and pestering the sh!t out of you for no reason that doesn't give you the lawful right to beat me to death. Note that I'm NOT implying that Martin was in the process of beating Zimmerman to the point of being mortally wounded. Zimmerman has a lawful defense premise if he reasonably believed his life was in danger while Martin was clocking him for being a busybody pain in the ass.
    I agree. Zimmerman reminds of the guy who stops short to try to get into a car accident.

    I think Zimmerman's intent was to stop the crime, even though there wasn't anything present when he approached Martin.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    Z calls cops, waits and everyone is still alive and well.
    Thats not what I asked. I asked you if you agree that my scenario is probably more or less what probably happened.

    I agree, he COULD have not gotten involved and there were ways everyone would still be alive. Now, his poor choices left a kid dead who probably didnt deserve to die young and him in a world of legal trouble. This makes Z a fool.

    HOWEVER, and this is what YOU GUYS DONT GET......in the state of Florida, if you legally carry and you are attacked and fear for your life, you HAVE the right to use deadly force.

    YES this means unlike NY where you have to take a beating by law, in FL if someone jumps you and starts a fight, you can fire.

    Z fired. He is NOT guilty and should be freed. I can understand you guys having a PROBLEM with the law itself, but he did not break any laws and your opinions are not important...sorry!

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    I think it's ok for someone to carry a gun. That's true. Concealed Carry Permit Holders have saved many peoples lives in our country over the years. I am also ok with someone defending themselves in a life threatening situation. As far as Zimmerman's case you present a scenario that is implausible. That's my problem with it.

    Realistically a better argument for your side of the issue is to accept that there was an altercation, accept that Martin likely initiated that altercation, then say that even if he did since Martin was unarmed, the Zimmerman reaction of using his weapon was overboard and he should still be guilty of some version of manslaughter. I could accept that the part of Zimemrman's story where he claims Martin sees his weapon and reaches for it is the most questionable part.
    thats nonsense. You dont agree with the law. Z has his nose smashed for sure. Why is it that people think they have an obligation to take a beating from some random punk in the street?

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotReign View Post
    As we are both in LE you know that means nothing in and of itself. Zimmerman INITIATED the situation but that does not negate his self defense claim by default.

    If I initiate an altercation by getting in your face at a bar and pestering the sh!t out of you for no reason that doesn't give you the lawful right to beat me to death. Note that I'm NOT implying that Martin was in the process of beating Zimmerman to the point of being mortally wounded. Zimmerman has a lawful defense premise if he reasonably believed his life was in danger while Martin was clocking him for being a busybody pain in the ass.
    Good point, however, if that were the case, Z goes to jail for murder. Why? the stand your ground law would not apply as a legal CCW permit holder is forbidden to be in certain places with a firearm, and a bar is one of them

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by dickkotite View Post
    Good point, however, if that were the case, Z goes to jail for murder. Why? the stand your ground law would not apply as a legal CCW permit holder is forbidden to be in certain places with a firearm, and a bar is one of them
    My broader point was that Martin doesn't get a free pass to tune Zimmerman up simply because he started the interaction as a busybody PITA.

    This case is about disproportionate responses (or a lack thereof depending on your perspective).

    The prosecutor is arguing that Z's actions were disproportinate because Martin's conduct did not justify being met with deadly force.

    The defense is arguing that Martin reacted disproprtinately to being followed / questioned and beat Zimmerman to the point he feared for his life.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by dickkotite View Post
    thats nonsense. You dont agree with the law. Z has his nose smashed for sure. Why is it that people think they have an obligation to take a beating from some random punk in the street?
    I think that morally a CCP holder should only fire if they feel their life is in danger. There are repercussions for actions. If someone enters my house as a break in I would probably yell out that I am armed and pump the shotgun loudly so they hear it and run away before I'm forced to fire. If it came down to it and an intruder didn't run on a warning then blasting them is the responsible and moral thing to do.

  8. #208
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    Agreed. I sometimes carry, but one place I never carry is the dogpark. Why? Because god forbid another dog attacks mine, I might lose it and its possible. I don't want legal drama. Z is a fool for sure, but not a murderer imho

    As far as the "excessive" force idea, well, thats a valid opinion but still an opinion. The stand your ground law allows that excessive force.

    If M was really on top of him punching away, you cant blame Z for being pumped up, nervous about M possibly finding Z's pistol and turning it on him.

    A good rule of thumb in life is to not physically assault anyone. Even when youre 17. The good old days are over

  9. #209
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    Very good opening for the Government.


    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V5_Vgg9qsww

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    I think that morally a CCP holder should only fire if they feel their life is in danger. There are repercussions for actions. If someone enters my house as a break in I would probably yell out that I am armed and pump the shotgun loudly so they hear it and run away before I'm forced to fire. If it came down to it and an intruder didn't run on a warning then blasting them is the responsible and moral thing to do.
    Reasonable post but remember....even in your own home, if you fire, the family will still sue you.

  11. #211
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    What not to start with during a opening. This guy a CPA?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiI5bVurSo0

  12. #212
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    Zimmer who? LOL, that's hilarious.

    Was playing to a tough crowd though.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnails View Post
    Zimmer who? LOL, that's hilarious.

    Was playing to a tough crowd though.
    It was disastrous as an opening statement. Time will mitigate the foolishness of it, but the defense attorney also completely squandered an opportunity to defend his client.

    Prosecutor at least laid out some evidence in an organized fashion with the usual hyperbole at various points. Most damning evidence? No Zimmerman blood anywhere on Martin's hands. And the Zimmerman injuries appear to have been slight... the result of a scuffle, not an all out fight. Score one for the prosecution. Minus one for the defense.

  14. #214
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    I still can't get over that Zimmerman's attorney decided it was a "smart idea" to tell a Knock-Knock joke.

    unreal.


    I'm sure the Jurors were like "WTF?".


    Oh and I'm wondering.....If Zimmerman never got out of his car to stalk Martin, would he be in this situation?

    Here's another question :

    If he did not have a gun, would he even leave the house to act out his "dirty-harry" fantasies?


    (as you can tell, I'm not exactly sympathetic toward Zimmerman. lol. BTW, doesn't he have a criminal record of Domestic Abuse and Assaulting a Police officer?)
    Last edited by Vin; 06-24-2013 at 11:50 PM.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vin View Post
    I still can't get over that Zimmerman's attorney decided it was a "smart idea" to tell a Knock-Knock joke.

    unreal.


    I'm sure the Jurors were like "WTF?".


    Oh and I'm wondering.....If Zimmerman never got out of his car to stalk Martin, would he be in this situation?

    Here's another question :

    If he did not have a gun, would he even leave the house to act out his "dirty-harry" fantasies?


    (as you can tell, I'm not exactly sympathetic toward Zimmerman. lol. BTW, doesn't he have a criminal record of Domestic Abuse and Assaulting a Police officer?)
    Yes, he does have both, although when he assaulted a police officer the charges were reduced then dropped when he did a pre-trial diversion program.

    Im not particularly sympathetic to Zimmerman either. Im pro- gun owner, but I also tend to be of the opinion that these kind of neighborhood watch type programs can attract wannabe cops, dirty harrys, etc. even though the whole stated goal is typically that when suspecting criminal activities, members are encouraged to contact authorities and not to intervene.

    I haven't seen any mention of training that Zimmerman might have gotten to be "neighborhood watch" either. At least the Guardian Angels get/got training (and are unarmed).

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyn Jet View Post
    I haven't seen any mention of training that Zimmerman might have gotten to be "neighborhood watch" either. At least the Guardian Angels get/got training (and are unarmed).
    The Prosecutor stated during his opening that he will bring the officer who trained Zimmerman and the paperwork he was given at the of the training.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    The preliminaries have begun. Assume we'll want to cover it, given how much attention it got here.

    Pre-Trial Round 1, Zimmerman takes a massive defeat, as almost all of Martin's background, drug use (apparently including that Martin had THC in his system when he was killed), alleged criminal/mischivious past, previous thefts, his alleged violent rhetoric text messages and his cellphones pictures of him holding a gun have been tossed out as inadmissable.

    The character and history of the victim, which the defense appears to believe painted Martin (and his possible violent reactiont o Zimmerman that night) in a more accurate light as a violent drug-using thug than the angelic much-younger pcitures bandied about, is now completely out.

    For our resident Lawyer(s), how mcuh damage does this do to the Zimmerman defense?
    its the right decision if you expect a fair trial. zimmermans broken nose/bashed face pics will get him off

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by dickkotite View Post
    its the right decision if you expect a fair trial. zimmermans broken nose/bashed face pics will get him off
    According to the govt Zimmerman's nose was not broken and the cuts on the back of his head were less than 2 centimeters.

    None of Zimmerman's blood was found on Martin's hands or the sleeves of his sweatshirt.

    The defense counsel was long and boring after the bad joke.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    According to the govt Zimmerman's nose was not broken and the cuts on the back of his head were less than 2 centimeters.
    Claims the Government cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt, because Zimmerman was not transported to the Hospital as he was told (by officers) he would be at the time of the shooting (the Defense claim).

    None of Zimmerman's blood was found on Martin's hands or the sleeves of his sweatshirt.
    Improperly treated evidence (no bagging of the victims hands for example) means the Prosecution would be unable to prove beyodn areasonable doubt that evidence was not simply brushed off or washed away as Martin's body was transported and beyond.

    The defense counsel was long and boring after the bad joke.
    Prosecution was a clear victor in day 1, if the media can be believed, aye.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by dickkotite View Post
    its the right decision if you expect a fair trial. zimmermans broken nose/bashed face pics will get him off
    Nose not broken. Minor lacerations on the back of the head. No neurological sequelae. Wanted note to go back to work next day. Hmmm. Witnesses to various parts of the altercation (not just Zimmerman's word). No blood on Martin's hands. No Martin DNA on gun Zimmerman claims he grabbed. Inconsistent, contradictory accounts by Zimmerman. Martin on phone with girl until approached by Zimmerman in the rain (could be why he wore his hoodie?), not the actions of a guy looking for trouble. Carrying a bottle of soda and Skittles he just bought... not the sign of somebody looking for trouble. Zimmerman traveling with a bullet live in the chamber of his gun, his intent established by his comments to dispatcher... all bad.

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