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Thread: Martin/Zimmerman Trial

  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby2 View Post

    You don't need proof to question someone's intentions. Especially when that is part of your position as a neighborhood watch.
    What position?

  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by dickkotite View Post
    Z didnt "stalk" anyone. Im really tired of hearing this term.

    Look the guy is a douche. Im not going to defend him. Yea hes an annoying busy body who wanted to play officer friendly but none of that behavior is criminal. Anyone has the right to keep their eye on someone else in public and certainly on cooperative private property. There is no evidence of him being a racist, just mere speculation. A lot of you guys are full of craap on this board because if a hoodied 17 year old black kid was wandering around you home in Pt Washington you be on the phone in a heartbeat. Give me a break.

    The whole case BEGINS the moment he returned from the store and there was some kind of confrontation. EVERYTHING before that is useless information. What happened during that altercation is the whole case and it seems to me the most likely scenario is Z asks M what he was doing, M gets pissed and attacks Z, Z fires.

    Since there are no witnesses and one party is dead, there is no reason to think Z is fabricating anything. His injuries and the lack of injuries on Martin are the strongest and maybe the ONLY pieces of real evidence and it all is consistent with Z's story

    I find it VERY hard to believe that a guy with a long, documented history of calling 911 while on crime watch duty would decide to walk up to some kid and blow him away in cold blood for no reason.

    I find it VERY easy to believe Martin didnt like this idiot questioning him on who he is and what hes doing there and taking a swing. Young punks swing at everthing. He didnt deserve to die but he was in the wrong state swinging at the wrong idiot
    You're assuming extremes - Zimmerman ultra bad guy stalking weaponless victim vs. Martin ambushing mini-Cop Zimmerman from behind. How about the more obvious... Zimmerman approaches and confronts, Martin snaps at him, they start arguing, a tussle ensues and Zimmerman shoots Martin in the chest. There IS a witness to part of the altercation so it's not completely based on Zimmerman's account, although the actual shooting itself is. We know that they were arguing. We know Zimmerman shot him at point blank range. We now need to know whether there was sufficient cause for self-defense, or whether Zimmerman acted in extreme fashion based on an altercation he participated in and therefore is liable criminally. I'm betting downgrade to manslaughter or negligent homicide.

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    According to the Prosecutor, Martin weighed 158 lbs and Zimmerman had been utilizing MMA training for a year and half and outweighed him.
    So he took a few classes? Wow, he's half a Gracie now.

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    You're assuming extremes - Zimmerman ultra bad guy stalking weaponless victim vs. Martin ambushing mini-Cop Zimmerman from behind. How about the more obvious... Zimmerman approaches and confronts, Martin snaps at him, they start arguing, a tussle ensues and Zimmerman shoots Martin in the chest. There IS a witness to part of the altercation so it's not completely based on Zimmerman's account, although the actual shooting itself is. We know that they were arguing. We know Zimmerman shot him at point blank range. We now need to know whether there was sufficient cause for self-defense, or whether Zimmerman acted in extreme fashion based on an altercation he participated in and therefore is liable criminally. I'm betting downgrade to manslaughter or negligent homicide.
    At the end of the day...all of this could have been avoided if he had just listened to the dispatcher that told him not to follow.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    The problem is that you have already shown that you are not aware of the facts in the case. As far as we know Zimmerman was keeping an eye on a stranger in his gated community. His story is that Martin doubled around and jumped him from behind, and was beating him on the ground. Some people here are claiming that he hunted Martin down like an animal and murdered him in cold blood then fake injured himself to craft a false self defense narrative.

    It remains to be seen which story is supported by the physical evidence but either is possible. For me I still can't see the hunting down and murdering a stranger line as plausible or likely but you never know.
    That's the thing, though...

    HIS story.... Only other person who can tell what happened is six-feet-under right now. "Dead Men Tell No Tales" as the saying goes.....




    Quote Originally Posted by dickkotite View Post
    Z didnt "stalk" anyone. Im really tired of hearing this term.

    Look the guy is a douche. Im not going to defend him. Yea hes an annoying busy body who wanted to play officer friendly but none of that behavior is criminal. Anyone has the right to keep their eye on someone else in public and certainly on cooperative private property. There is no evidence of him being a racist, just mere speculation. A lot of you guys are full of craap on this board because if a hoodied 17 year old black kid was wandering around you home in Pt Washington you be on the phone in a heartbeat. Give me a break.
    Yes we would but would we also make it a point to, as you basically pointed out "Play Cop" and go after the kid with a concealed weapon?

    I don't think so.

    The whole case BEGINS the moment he returned from the store and there was some kind of confrontation. EVERYTHING before that is useless information. What happened during that altercation is the whole case and it seems to me the most likely scenario is Z asks M what he was doing, M gets pissed and attacks Z, Z fires.
    That could be true but it can also be true that the Kid told him to leave him alone, he then tried to leave, Z grabbed him and *THEN* the "altercation" occurred.

    Unfortunately, we will never know Martin's side of the story. Only Zimmerman's.


    Since there are no witnesses and one party is dead, there is no reason to think Z is fabricating anything.
    You're kidding me, right?

    So Mr. Zimmerman, he of the criminal record. He of the concealed weapon acting like a dirty-harry wannabe-cop. His word is apparently the gospel and should be taken as Truth then? oh boy....

    It's not like he had ANY reason to lie since his ass was on the line. Oh nosiree bob....

    His injuries and the lack of injuries on Martin are the strongest and maybe the ONLY pieces of real evidence and it all is consistent with Z's story
    I'm curious if they found any of Z's DNA on Martin's knuckles or something since Z had an apparent(according to him just telling his family doctor who took his word and did no x-rays) broken nose.

    And anyway, I'm sure there was an altercation. Z's injuries are proof of that. But it's still not clear who started the altercation.

    I find it VERY hard to believe that a guy with a long, documented history of calling 911 while on crime watch duty would decide to walk up to some kid and blow him away in cold blood for no reason.
    He did have a reason, though. He thought Trayvon "looked suspicious", then he called the non-emergency line to air his grievance about it. He probably then got tired of doing that and took the law into his own hands.

    I venture to say that had he not had a gun in his possession, he wouldn't have even been doing any patrolling in his car searching for "bad guys". He'd probably still be home watching action movies and fantasizing about being the vigilante good guy shooting the bad guys with zero consequences.


    I find it VERY easy to believe Martin didnt like this idiot questioning him on who he is and what hes doing there and taking a swing. Young punks swing at everthing. He didnt deserve to die but he was in the wrong state swinging at the wrong idiot
    I find it very easy to believe that Z never identified himself as a Cop or anything(because he couldn't since he wasn't) and therefore Martin was like "Who the hell is this guy following me and getting on my case just for being there?"

    Yeah he definitely swung at the wrong idiot who probably grabbed him first but whatever. Everything we're both saying is just assumption. We'll never truly know what happened that night since the only one aside from Z that would know, is dead.





    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    I'm betting downgrade to manslaughter or negligent homicide.
    I'm betting manslaughter, also.

    Don't know about murder. I don't think they have enough to convict him of that.
    Last edited by Vin; 06-25-2013 at 07:41 PM.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by brady's a catcher View Post
    So he took a few classes? Wow, he's half a Gracie now.
    I was quoting the Prosecutor hence the "ACCORDING TO" I started my post with, man oh man.

  7. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    I was quoting the Prosecutor hence the "ACCORDING TO" I started my post with, man oh man.
    In Florida, you're allowed to shoot people if your-a-scared of something.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Vin View Post
    That's the thing, though...

    HIS story.... Only other person who can tell what happened is six-feet-under right now. "Dead Men Tell No Tales" as the saying goes.....






    Yes we would but would we also make it a point to, as you basically pointed out "Play Cop" and go after the kid with a concealed weapon?

    I don't think so.



    That could be true but it can also be true that the Kid told him to leave him alone, he then tried to leave, Z grabbed him and *THEN* the "altercation" occurred.

    Unfortunately, we will never know Martin's side of the story. Only Zimmerman's.




    You're kidding me, right?

    So Mr. Zimmerman, he of the criminal record. He of the concealed weapon acting like a dirty-harry wannabe-cop. His word is apparently the gospel and should be taken as Truth then? oh boy....



    I'm curious if they found any of Z's DNA on Martin's knuckles or something since Z had an apparent(according to him just telling his family doctor who took his word and did no x-rays) broken nose.

    And anyway, I'm sure there was an altercation. Z's injuries are proof of that. But it's still not clear who started the altercation.



    He did have a reason, though. He thought Trayvon "looked suspicious", then he called the non-emergency line to air his grievance about it. He probably then got tired of doing that and took the law into his own hands.

    I venture to say that had he not had a gun in his possession, he wouldn't have even been doing any patrolling in his car searching for "bad guys". He'd probably still be home watching action movies and fantasizing about being the vigilante good guy shooting the bad guys with zero consequences.




    I find it very easy to believe that Z never identified himself as a Cop or anything(because he couldn't since he wasn't) and therefore Martin was like "Who the hell is this guy following me and getting on my case just for being there?"

    Yeah he definitely swung at the wrong idiot who probably grabbed him first but whatever. Everything we're both saying is just assumption. We'll never truly know what happened that night since the only one aside from Z that would know, is dead.







    I'm betting manslaughter, also.

    Don't know about murder. I don't think they have enough to convict him of that.


    Your making a big big deal of the fact that he had a gun on him which is typical for a NY er as I also grew up there and was taught that they were very much taboo. Once you live in a pro gun southern state, you begin to realize and appreciate them and see them as nothing move than a sporting goods item. I cant convince you of this obviously.....youd have to live it to learn it but your constant references to the gun as if he was a criminal for having one makes you sound very biased and incapable of fairness. The man had a permit to carry, as I do, as a million others do. Its NO BIG deal. It has nothing to do with the case even though you might be shocked to hear that.

    The thing about Z having a "criminal record" well thats another thing thats kind of unfair. I was arrested when I was 18 for trespassing (unknowingly) onto someones land while hunting upstate, does that make me a scumbag? So he hit a cop....ok maybe the cop violated his civil rights or assaulted him. Not a wise thing to do, but it happens and in many cases good people have the "right" to hit a cop if the cop is abusive or working above the law. Who knows. Ok he had a restraining order or something with an ex lover....do we really need to go here? Passion can make anyone crazy. What else is left? armed robbery? NO child porn? NO animal torture? NO insurance fraud? NO identity theft? NO Because those would be violations where I would say YES he is a criminal. What he did anybody could have done if placed in the scenario he was placed in. My point here again is that just like the constant gun references that are waaaaaay out of proportion so are the accusations of him having a history of committing crimes. You are not being fair.

    when it comes down to it, Z is probably no different than you or I. We both probably have flaws as human beings that are comperable to his, so why judge him? Im sure he kisses his mom, dad nieces and nephews and enjoys a sunday BBQ with his family just like the next guy. He is probably a very average guy when you look at the whole picture, but guys like you tend to dehumanize him.

    Anyways, to me, you tend to believe the far less likely scenario becuase you dont like nosey wanna be cops who have legal guns on them. YES, he could have just shot him in cold blood out of the blue. Maybe that did happen. The guys who just flat out dont like zimmerman want to believe that but Ill tell you what:

    If a gun was placed to your skull by someone who witnessed the whole thing, and you were asked to pick who was the aggressor was on that fateful night and if you didnt pick correctly that gun would fire, I GUARANTEE you would say it was Martin who attacked Zimmerman. You WANT to believe it wasnt, but I know there isnt anyone on this board who really believes that Z started the physical contact.

    Even Martins mom and dad know it deep down, imho

  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by dickkotite View Post
    Your making a big big deal of the fact that he had a gun on him which is typical for a NY er as I also grew up there and was taught that they were very much taboo. Once you live in a pro gun southern state, you begin to realize and appreciate them and see them as nothing move than a sporting goods item. I cant convince you of this obviously.....youd have to live it to learn it but your constant references to the gun as if he was a criminal for having one makes you sound very biased and incapable of fairness. The man had a permit to carry, as I do, as a million others do. Its NO BIG deal. It has nothing to do with the case even though you might be shocked to hear that.

    The thing about Z having a "criminal record" well thats another thing thats kind of unfair. I was arrested when I was 18 for trespassing (unknowingly) onto someones land while hunting upstate, does that make me a scumbag? So he hit a cop....ok maybe the cop violated his civil rights or assaulted him. Not a wise thing to do, but it happens and in many cases good people have the "right" to hit a cop if the cop is abusive or working above the law. Who knows. Ok he had a restraining order or something with an ex lover....do we really need to go here? Passion can make anyone crazy. What else is left? armed robbery? NO child porn? NO animal torture? NO insurance fraud? NO identity theft? NO Because those would be violations where I would say YES he is a criminal. What he did anybody could have done if placed in the scenario he was placed in. My point here again is that just like the constant gun references that are waaaaaay out of proportion so are the accusations of him having a history of committing crimes. You are not being fair.

    when it comes down to it, Z is probably no different than you or I. We both probably have flaws as human beings that are comperable to his, so why judge him? Im sure he kisses his mom, dad nieces and nephews and enjoys a sunday BBQ with his family just like the next guy. He is probably a very average guy when you look at the whole picture, but guys like you tend to dehumanize him.

    Anyways, to me, you tend to believe the far less likely scenario becuase you dont like nosey wanna be cops who have legal guns on them. YES, he could have just shot him in cold blood out of the blue. Maybe that did happen. The guys who just flat out dont like zimmerman want to believe that but Ill tell you what:

    If a gun was placed to your skull by someone who witnessed the whole thing, and you were asked to pick who was the aggressor was on that fateful night and if you didnt pick correctly that gun would fire, I GUARANTEE you would say it was Martin who attacked Zimmerman. You WANT to believe it wasnt, but I know there isnt anyone on this board who really believes that Z started the physical contact.

    Even Martins mom and dad know it deep down, imho
    TLDR

    Condensed version; unfair to judge Zimmermann based off of his criminal record. Ok to judge Martin based off of his Facebook posts.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    TLDR

    Condensed version; unfair to judge Zimmermann based off of his criminal record. Ok to judge Martin based off of his Facebook posts.
    Except all traces of Travon as the thug he appears to be are GONE. the media won't print it etc.

  11. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Except all traces of Travon as the thug he appears to be are GONE. the media won't print it etc.
    Lol.

    "Thug".

    I believed you and Googled it. 1,334,565 hits in 1.4462006 seconds.

    Yup. No trace. Evil media.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Except all traces of Travon as the thug he appears to be are GONE. the media won't print it etc.
    You're upset about the dead kid not being drug through the mud? Martin didn't follow Zimmerman nor did he have criminal record, he was a TEENAGER.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    TLDR

    Condensed version; unfair to judge Zimmermann based off of his criminal record. Ok to judge Martin based off of his Facebook posts.
    That's what I got from it, too.



    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Except all traces of Travon as the thug he appears to be are GONE. the media won't print it etc.
    All Traces?

    So if someone googles it, they won't find them, right? I think I liked you better when you were extolling the virtues of Broadway Joe.

  14. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vin View Post
    That's what I got from it, too.
    He sent texts about smoking The Pot!!!

    And he listened to the rapping music!!

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Lol.

    "Thug".

    I believed you and Googled it. 1,334,565 hits in 1.4462006 seconds.

    Yup. No trace. Evil media.
    It just simply disappeared? LOL, FB owns all pics on their site and yet they made them disappear too???? Idiots put up pics of someone else right after this happened, also the video on his phone was of 2 homeless guys fighting each other. Stone cold thug????

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    He sent texts about smoking The Pot!!!

    And he listened to the rapping music!!
    That BASTARD!

    HE'S OBVIOUSLY A THUG!!!!


    REPENT, SINNER!





  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Lol.

    "Thug".

    I believed you and Googled it. 1,334,565 hits in 1.4462006 seconds.

    Yup. No trace. Evil media.
    Post a link with photos of him from a true national media source.

    Random chatter from small sources???? That's not the media.

    A pic that WAS available when this happened. You know with the gang hand signs, gold teeth etc. They are all extinguished basically unless you show otherwise.
    Last edited by southparkcpa; 06-25-2013 at 07:46 PM.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Post a link with photos of him from a true national media source.

    Random chatter from small sources???? That's not the media.

    A pic that WAS available when this happened. You know with the gang hand signs, fold teeth etc. They are all extinguished basically unless you show otherwise.
    IT WASNT HIM

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Vin View Post
    That's what I got from it, too.





    All Traces?

    So if someone googles it, they won't find them, right? I think I liked you better when you were extolling the virtues of Broadway Joe.
    Your loyalty is so thin........ How's your Sanchez fathead? Still beat off to it?

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Your loyalty is so thin........ How's your Sanchez fathead? Still beat off to it?
    Dude! I'm shocked and appalled!


    You know by now I'm a Braylon fan(soon to be Geno-Smith fan if Idzik follows through on being an idiot and does not re-sign him)!

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