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Thread: Martin/Zimmerman Trial

  1. #721
    All I know is this :


    Zimmerman - Not Guilty of Murder

    BUT

    Zimmerman - Guilty of Manslaughter


    I don't know where some of you see that there was evidence that Z was telling the truth when in fact he changed his story several times which should be the proverbial red-flag.

    (and now I will get the obligatory Churchill response on how I'm wrong and he's right. like clockwork. )

  2. #722
    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    Actually this is not true. The Twin Lakes Community had undergone severe price reductions due to the recession and the composition changed from when it was originally developed in 2004 or thereabouts. Prices had dropped from $250K+ to around $100,000. The "community" actually lost its protective shield as the development eroded in value. Most people not only did not know each other, but the area was under siege from burglaries to the community of whites, Hispanics, and blacks. If anything, the situation was ripe for a neighborhood watchman who felt powerless to stop such crime to over-react when he saw a kid that fit his profile of someone who would be likely to be committing a burglary - or at least scoping one out. Zimmerman became overly aggressive in his surveillance in the sense that he was alone and not really equipped to deal with a confrontation. Martin, on the other hand, actually seems to have dealt with Zimmerman as if he had nothing to fear or respect. Martin then became the aggressor and all hell broke loose. Frustrated wannabe cop with a loaded gun, kid with an attitude, high tension neighborhood backdrop... recipe for disaster.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-shooting.html
    Agreed the recipe was ripe for a disaster. Damn to hell the burglars that absolutely played a major part in creating this situation.

    Hind sight is 20/20. Confronting someone in your own neighborhood is not something one should consider high risk nor should it be considered an overly aggressive act (at least I think I most people's opinion...). I can't believe from what I've observed so far that Z went into that situation seeking or expecting a violent physical confrontation.

  3. #723
    Quote Originally Posted by frostlich View Post
    Agreed the recipe was ripe for a disaster. Damn to hell the burglars that absolutely played a major part in creating this situation.

    Hind sight is 20/20. Confronting someone in your own neighborhood is not something one should consider high risk nor should it be considered an overly aggressive act (at least I think I most people's opinion...). I can't believe from what I've observed so far that Z went into that situation seeking or expecting a violent physical confrontation.
    Maybe he wasn't looking for a Physical confrontation. However, had he not had a gun in the first place, somehow I don't think he would've been out following a so-called "suspicious person" at all.

    Having the gun made him "brave"(and stupid) enough to get out of his car and play "cop".

    No Gun = No Following = Zimmerman staying home = Trayvon being alive = None of this Circus going on now.
    Last edited by Vin; 07-06-2013 at 12:50 PM.

  4. #724
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    Quote Originally Posted by frostlich View Post
    Agreed the recipe was ripe for a disaster. Damn to hell the burglars that absolutely played a major part in creating this situation.

    Hind sight is 20/20. Confronting someone in your own neighborhood is not something one should consider high risk nor should it be considered an overly aggressive act (at least I think I most people's opinion...). I can't believe from what I've observed so far that Z went into that situation seeking or expecting a violent physical confrontation.
    I'm not really disagreeing, but when you use terms like "your own neighborhood" it sounds so bucolic and gentle. Obviously, this was a neighborhood in trouble. Zimmerman's comments that there were punks around and they always got away with it says this was anything but a quiet place with no troubles. So from his own perspective he knew that he was not dealing with the usual wanderer. He sensed danger, reported it, then proceeded to get involved with the guy. He could have stayed in his car and waited for the real police to arrive. He didn't.

  5. #725
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vin View Post
    Maybe he wasn't looking for a Physical confrontation. However, had he not had a gun in the first place, somehow I don't think he would've been out following a so-called "suspicious person" at all.

    Having the gun made him "brave"(and stupid) enough to get out of his car and play "cop".

    No Gun = No Following = Zimmerman staying home = Trayvon being alive = None of this Circus going on now.
    IMO you're taking a pretty big leap. I don't think guns make people do anything. But then again I seem to be one of the few that believed in free will.


  6. #726
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    Both men had rights to do what they were doing all that matters is how it went down, and how it did we will never know.

  7. #727
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    IMO you're taking a pretty big leap. I don't think guns make people do anything. But then again I seem to be one of the few that believed in free will.

    It's just my theory. I'm not telling you that it's the Gospel or anything. geez.....


    But still....I would find it highly unlikely that he would've followed him had he not been armed than if he had been(which he was in this case).


    The gun doesn't make people do anything. I agree with you.

    But it DOES give people a sense of security and confidence which I'm sure Z had when he decided to get out of his car and follow Trayvon whereas had he not had a gun, he would probably have left it to the police like he should've and none of this mess would've occurred as a result.
    Last edited by Vin; 07-06-2013 at 01:36 PM.

  8. #728
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    What position should LEO personnel only be in? I guess we should all just be hiding in our homes hoping the cops get there before our homes are broken into or we are attacked.

    Which behavior shouldn't be tolerated? Asking a stranger why he is looking into the windows of your neighbor's houses? Protecting yourself with a legal gun when you are jumped?

    What could "we have to be the peace and security in our environment" mean other than we should be able to question someone who is suspicious in a neighborhood that has had a lot of break-ins?

    Now as far as this case goes, could Zimmerman have been the first to provoke Martin? Sure but the evidence doesn't show that IMO. If someone asked me what I was doing somewhere (even why I was a brash kid) I would have made a sarcastic remark at worst and kept on walking. Hitting someone or stopping to argue would NEVER have crossed my mind. If I saw a gun I would have broken the world record in the mile run. As horrible as it is that Martin died I believe his actions are at least as responsible for the outcome as were Zimmerman's.
    Every point you raise brings up how important it is that they get this right. Right on.

    The confrontation could evolved in myriad ways...How will they get this right? Your questions are not revealing any easy answers.

  9. #729
    Quote Originally Posted by WestCoastOffensive View Post
    Every point you raise brings up how important it is that they get this right. Right on.

    The confrontation could evolved in myriad ways...How will they get this right? Your questions are not revealing any easy answers.
    All we have are nothing but Speculations. Nothing Concrete.


    And the worst part is that the only person currently alive who really knows what happened that night is someone who changed his story several times(Zimmerman).

    One thing to think about : If he really was guilty of everything that the Prosecution says he is, there's no way in hell he would ever admit to anything that would incriminate him ultimately. Now I know this is Tin-foil-hat reasoning but the fact that he did change his story multiple times does raise that suspicion that he's not exactly being totally truthful in what happened that night.....
    Last edited by Vin; 07-06-2013 at 09:33 PM.

  10. #730
    Quote Originally Posted by Vin View Post
    All we have are nothing but Speculations. Nothing Concrete.
    how in the world do you get from there to "beyond a reasonable doubt"?

  11. #731
    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    how in the world do you get from there to "beyond a reasonable doubt"?
    Why are you asking me? I'm no lawyer.

  12. #732
    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    I'd also love to hear from Doggin why M. Mother is being allowed to testify when she is not a witness, and has no basis for her claim that it's M. voice on the tape when even a professional FBI voice analysis expert said the voices could not be identified?

    So M. past (alleged past) of violence and crime is out, but M. mom tearfully claiming it's defintiely her son on the tape (when that can't be proven) is in?

    Talk about biasing a jury with testimony unsupported by fact being made by an obviously biased "witness".
    welcome to FloriDUH

  13. #733
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    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    how in the world do you get from there to "beyond a reasonable doubt"?
    The answer is you can't.

    But this case is not being tried in a vacuum. Cant underestimate any emotion, pressure or fear the jurors might be feeling.

  14. #734
    Quote Originally Posted by brady's a catcher View Post
    And rioting is so 20th Century.
    Classic latent racist lib thinking. Poor blacks, they just can't help but riot if Zimmy walks, I mean who could blame them, right? The outrage, the injustice!

    I mean anyone would take to the streets and riot, right?

    Non libs get called racists at the drop of a hat, but libs continue to treat blacks (and others) like trained circus animals. "Hey can't blame the tiger for biting the trainer, he is a wild animal after all".
    The worst was after the LA riots and the rioters bashed the head of an innocent truck driver, Reginald Denny, only to have the brain-scrambled victim go on Oprah and hug his assailants and tell them he loved them.

    I've been saying it for as long as I can remember, the biggest problem we have in this country is racism.

  15. #735
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pats1960 View Post
    The worst was after the LA riots and the rioters bashed the head of an innocent truck driver, Reginald Denny, only to have the brain-scrambled victim go on Oprah and hug his assailants and tell them he loved them.

    I've been saying it for as long as I can remember, the biggest problem we have in this country is racism.
    We have different races / cultures in this country, demanding to be treated equally under law, and the law supports that.

    Yet theses same people will demand to be treated equally when their behavior is so blatantly different than the norm in private places. I was in Atlanta where a very upscale restaurant posted a CLEAR sign that "Gentlemen must wear a collared shirt". These gentlemen responded by wearing a golf shirt UNDER their Knicks, Lakers, etc basketball jerseys wearing shorts etc. To a nice valet style restaurant.

    Yet we want to be treated equally.....

  16. #736
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vin View Post
    All I know is this :


    Zimmerman - Not Guilty of Murder

    BUT

    Zimmerman - Guilty of Manslaughter


    I don't know where some of you see that there was evidence that Z was telling the truth when in fact he changed his story several times which should be the proverbial red-flag.

    (and now I will get the obligatory Churchill response on how I'm wrong and he's right. like clockwork. )
    If the jury believes that Z acted in self defense he wouldn't be guilty of manslaughter. Not saying this applies to you but some people automatically think that Z must be guilty of something simply because TM was killed.

    Z has largely stuck to his story that TM was straddling/punching him and was visibly relieved when told the incident was caught on video. Granted that Z could be the second coming of Marlon Brando but I don't think he's that good of an actor. Also IMO you cannot summarily dismiss his injuries as inconsequential as to his deadly force reaction.

    I can't see how TM would be the one screaming for help as if he thought Z was going to execute him for no apparent reason. It's more plausible that Z was screaming in the midst of getting tuned up and reached for his gun.

    As Churchill pointed out Z being armed and/or initiating the contact does not equate to a crime.
    Last edited by PatriotReign; 07-07-2013 at 09:05 AM.

  17. #737
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    We have different races / cultures in this country, demanding to be treated equally under law, and the law supports that.

    Yet theses same people will demand to be treated equally when their behavior is so blatantly different than the norm in private places. I was in Atlanta where a very upscale restaurant posted a CLEAR sign that "Gentlemen must wear a collared shirt". These gentlemen responded by wearing a golf shirt UNDER their Knicks, Lakers, etc basketball jerseys wearing shorts etc. To a nice valet style restaurant.

    Yet we want to be treated equally.....
    You sound like that addled old sea captain in Mary Poppins. What? No cravat to high tea? Did the restaurant serve these gentlemen despite the sign? I'll bet they did. Money trumps gentility in all but a very few cases in our society. That's the true failing of our society, that we can't even pretend anything but money overrides all. It doesn't produce good taste, genuine manners, or civility. It doesn't make one spiritual or moral or patriotic. More often than not, it merely makes us more entitled and arrogant.

  18. #738
    Quote Originally Posted by Vin View Post
    All I know is this :


    Zimmerman - Not Guilty of Murder

    BUT

    Zimmerman - Guilty of Manslaughter


    I don't know where some of you see that there was evidence that Z was telling the truth when in fact he changed his story several times which should be the proverbial red-flag.

    (and now I will get the obligatory Churchill response on how I'm wrong and he's right. like clockwork. )
    I have not been following this case at all I think it's the most unimportant story out there and just a pawn for far-right and far-left interest groups to bait whites and blacks respectively. Is the prosecution going for murder one or manslaughter? If they're going for a murder conviction they are seriously fumbling the ball in the endzone the same way the idiots who handled the Casey Anthony case blundered by going for a full 1st degree murder conviction and striking out when they could have easily gotten a man 2 conviction on that POS and put her in jail for at least 10 years.

    Zimmerman is probably guilty of manslaughter 2nd or 3rd degree but definitely not murder.

  19. #739
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    Quote Originally Posted by detjetsfan View Post
    I have not been following this case at all I think it's the most unimportant story out there and just a pawn for far-right and far-left interest groups to bait whites and blacks respectively. Is the prosecution going for murder one or manslaughter? If they're going for a murder conviction they are seriously fumbling the ball in the endzone the same way the idiots who handled the Casey Anthony case blundered by going for a full 1st degree murder conviction and striking out when they could have easily gotten a man 2 conviction on that POS and put her in jail for at least 10 years.

    Zimmerman is probably guilty of manslaughter 2nd or 3rd degree but definitely not murder.

    Lolz, a snapshot of America..

  20. #740
    Quote Originally Posted by Vin View Post
    Why are you asking me? I'm no lawyer.
    jurors never are. and you're the one who insisted he had to be found guilty

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