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Thread: Martin/Zimmerman Trial

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    You do realize "neighborhood watchman" isn't a job, or a legally relevant category, right?
    No sh*t, sherlock.

    He was doing what constitutes the tasks involved with being a neighborhood watchman.

    But that still doesn't mean he broke the LAW. Or for that matter what someone says are RULES.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    He broke the rules?! So says WHO? An article suggesting he broke the rules (likely written by a DEMOCRAT) is conclusion that he broke the LAW?

    What you obviously didn't read is that he did not break the LAW by following Martin. That's what matters here. Not what some dingbat says are RULES.

    Was he possibly a little more harrassing than he needed to be? Maybe. But certainly still does not constitute breaking the law or any rules.

    Did his power possibly go to his head and he was a cop "wannabe" as the article states? POSSIBLY. But only possibly and that still does not constitute breaking the law or any so called RULES.
    President of the HOA chimed in. Zimmerman wasn't supposed to carry OR act in any way that would be a nuisance to his neighbors. Deny that!

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    No sh*t, sherlock.

    He was doing what constitutes the tasks involved with being a neighborhood watchman.

    But that still doesn't mean he broke the LAW. Or for that matter what someone says are RULES.
    Doggin is an outstanding contributor,....why acnt you be civil?

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Doggin is an outstanding contributor,....why acnt you be civil?
    He was talking down to me. Hence the response...

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by frostlich View Post
    President of the HOA chimed in. Zimmerman wasn't supposed to carry OR act in any way that would be a nuisance to his neighbors. Deny that!
    And how does that make anything I posted untrue? Are you another democrat grasping at straws?

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    And how does that make anything I posted untrue? Are you another democrat grasping at straws?
    Yes, Frostlich is a drooling, melon-headed, shop-a-holic Democrat. I thought you knew that.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post


    The rules of some NATIONAL group. Not his neighborhood.
    Zimmerman is not a hero. Nor a bad guy. Circumstances.
    Martin is clearly a bum, however. Fine track record. Deserve to die? No. Also got caught up in circumstances. Zimmerman's injuries happened how?

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    Link please. I haven't seen any evidence that Zimmerman confronted Martin thusfar.
    If I'm unarmed and a guy is following me with a gun at night, a first strike by the unarmed man could be construed as self defense. If you believe someone is planning on killing you and you aren't armed it's not unreasonable to strike first in self defense. The fact is this guy followed and killed a kid after indicating to the police he thought the kid was dangerous to me says he was looking for a confrontation and got it.

    What I don't understand is regardless of law Zimmerman was negligent and killed an unarmed teenager and you don't give a **** about that.

    Call me nave but I lived in NYC in the 80's and I don't ever remember the urge to follow someone I believed was dangerous at night with no one else around. At best Zimmerman killed a kid because of his stupidity. At worst he hunted this kid down and shot him dead. Chances are it's somewhere in between. A young man is dead. This is tragic.

    It also points out that Zimmerman, a guy who had a carry permit, is another example of an irresponsible gun owner who got a carry permit.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    If I'm unarmed and a guy is following me with a gun at night, a first strike by the unarmed man could be construed as self defense. If you believe someone is planning on killing you and you aren't armed it's not unreasonable to strike first in self defense. The fact is this guy followed and killed a kid after indicating to the police he thought the kid was dangerous to me says he was looking for a confrontation and got it.

    What I don't understand is regardless of law Zimmerman was negligent and killed an unarmed teenager and you don't give a **** about that.

    Call me nave but I lived in NYC in the 80's and I don't ever remember the urge to follow someone I believed was dangerous at night with no one else around. At best Zimmerman killed a kid because of his stupidity. At worst he hunted this kid down and shot him dead. Chances are it's somewhere in between. A young man is dead. This is tragic.

    It also points out that Zimmerman, a guy who had a carry permit, is another example of an irresponsible gun owner who got a carry permit.
    How do you know Martin knew Zimmerman had a gun?

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    How do you know Martin knew Zimmerman had a gun?
    If a guy was following you at night who wasn't a cop would you assume he didn't? How do you know he didn't have his gun out and pointed at Martin. How did he get it out if this guy was on top of him and beating on him? Pretty tough to pull a gun if you are on your back and being attacked. I'm sure that's going to be part of the expert testimony for the prosecution.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 06-14-2013 at 11:15 AM.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by palmetto defender View Post
    The rules of some NATIONAL group. Not his neighborhood.
    Zimmerman is not a hero. Nor a bad guy. Circumstances.
    Martin is clearly a bum, however. Fine track record. Deserve to die? No. Also got caught up in circumstances. Zimmerman's injuries happened how?
    Zimmerman has a police record not Martin. Neighborhood watch groups are all told "DO NOT CONFRONT".

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    If a guy was following you at night who wasn't a cop would you assume he didn't? How do you know he didn't have his gun out and pointed at Martin. How did he get it out if this guy was on top of him and beating on him? Pretty tough to pull a gun if you are on your back and being attacked. I'm sure that's going to be part of the expert testimony for the prosecution.
    Ugh yes, as a matter of fact I would. I'm not one of these people that walks around in constant fear that someone is going to shoot me.

    The rest of your post is mere assumptions. Just like your first post was.

    You're assuming Zimmerman is guilty without really knowing the facts. You're jumping to conclusions.

    My point was, he had a concealed weapons permit. So more than likely his gun was out of sight, out of mind. Meaning Martin probably didn't know he had a gun. Most times when someone pulls a gun on you, and you do not have one yourself? You'll back down if you want to live. That didn't happen here. It makes me think that yes Zimmerman did pull his gun while the teen was on top of him.

    Now this is pure speculation on my part.

    I guess my question is why do you always come up with some sort of scenario that supports a liberal agenda? You do realize that it could be straight forward self defense, right? That he quite possibly could have been in fear for his life and pulled the gun out of pure self defense.

    Based on your post, you think that no matter what the outcome of Zimmerman's conduct, he's at the very least a stupid A$$ that should be sent to jail.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    Ugh yes, as a matter of fact I would. I'm not one of these people that walks around in constant fear that someone is going to shoot me.

    The rest of your post is mere assumptions. Just like your first post was.

    You're assuming Zimmerman is guilty without really knowing the facts. You're jumping to conclusions.

    My point was, he had a concealed weapons permit. So more than likely his gun was out of sight, out of mind. Meaning Martin probably didn't know he had a gun. Most times when someone pulls a gun on you, and you do not have one yourself? You'll back down if you want to live. That didn't happen here. It makes me think that yes Zimmerman did pull his gun while the teen was on top of him.

    Now this is pure speculation on my part.

    I guess my question is why do you always come up with some sort of scenario that supports a liberal agenda? You do realize that it could be straight forward self defense, right? That he quite possibly could have been in fear for his life and pulled the gun out of pure self defense.

    Based on your post, you think that no matter what the outcome of Zimmerman's conduct, he's at the very least a stupid A$$ that should be sent to jail.
    He called 911 and he was watching for criminal behavior. He got out to pursue a criminal probably to keep him from getting away before the police arrived unless his intent was to kill him. Now if he thought he was a criminal which he did since he called 911 and he was trying to prevent him from getting away until the police arrived and he had a gun, what makes you think he didn't have it out and if he didn't how was he supposed to hold him? Maybe he thought since he outweighed him by 60 pounds he could physical confront him?

    I think he is either stupid or a cold blooded murderer. I lean toward stupid. Yes it's speculation but his word isn't good enough based on his action. There should be DNA from Martin under his nails and in his head and I suspect if he feared for his life lots of Martins DNA in his gun hand unless he couldn't defend with that hand because the gun was out. Martin presumably came from him head on. Zimmerman's strong hand is presumably his gun hand. there should be Martin DNA under his nails if he was in a fight for his life.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 06-14-2013 at 02:06 PM.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    If I'm unarmed and a guy is following me with a gun at night, a first strike by the unarmed man could be construed as self defense. If you believe someone is planning on killing you and you aren't armed it's not unreasonable to strike first in self defense. The fact is this guy followed and killed a kid after indicating to the police he thought the kid was dangerous to me says he was looking for a confrontation and got it.

    What I don't understand is regardless of law Zimmerman was negligent and killed an unarmed teenager and you don't give a **** about that.

    Call me nave but I lived in NYC in the 80's and I don't ever remember the urge to follow someone I believed was dangerous at night with no one else around. At best Zimmerman killed a kid because of his stupidity. At worst he hunted this kid down and shot him dead. Chances are it's somewhere in between. A young man is dead. This is tragic.

    It also points out that Zimmerman, a guy who had a carry permit, is another example of an irresponsible gun owner who got a carry permit.
    Let me clarify it for you. First of all your claims are ridiculous. There is no evidence that Zimmerman had his gun drawn. However if someone was following me with a gun drawn I'd run. I certainly wouldn't double back and attack them.

    Furthermore this incident didn't take place in NYC in the 80's. It happened in a quiet gated Florida community. I've lived in gated communities and If I saw some kid I didn't recognize walking around at 2AM I certainly would keep an eye on them and see what they were up to. I may even call the cops to report a suspicious person.

    If said person jumped me from behind and was bashing my head in the ground, and I had been carrying my legal and permitted weapon, there is a good chance the end result would have been the same as what happened with Zimmerman. I don't agree with your take on what happened there so therefore our conclusions differ.

    **EDIT I wanted to add something here. The distance of the gunshot is a critical piece of evidence none of us have seen or know at the moment. In the most likely scenario (the one I point out above where Martin attacks Zimmerman first and the gun is still holstered) Zimmerman would have had to get out his gun seemingly to protect himself. If he does this while Martin is attacking him chances are that gunshot would have been at point blank range. If in another scenario Zimmerman gets free (rolling out or something) and in a rage after having been beaten and punched stands up say 10-15 feet away and shoots Martin in anger.. well the self defense thing doesn't apply as clearly. That type of thing could fall under a manslaughter type category. The forensics on the distance of the gunshot is for me the most critical piece of evidence in the case.
    Last edited by chiefst2000; 06-14-2013 at 02:40 PM.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    Let me clarify it for you. First of all your claims are ridiculous. There is no evidence that Zimmerman had his gun drawn. However if someone was following me with a gun drawn I'd run. I certainly wouldn't double back and attack them.

    Furthermore this incident didn't take place in NYC in the 80's. It happened in a quiet gated Florida community. I've lived in gated communities and If I saw some kid I didn't recognize walking around at 2AM I certainly would keep an eye on them and see what they were up to. I may even call the cops to report a suspicious person.

    If said person jumped me from behind and was bashing my head in the ground, and I had been carrying my legal and permitted weapon, there is a good chance the end result would have been the same as what happened with Zimmerman. I don't agree with your take on what happened there so therefore our conclusions differ.
    Chief, you and I may disagree about a lot of things but I think you would never call the cops on someone you thought was a criminal in your "Gated Community" and pursue him at 2:00AM by yourself. Simply not credible.

    I live in a gated community now there is no way I call the cops on a kid I thought was up to no good who was in the public section of the community and pursue them, with or without a gun. You would have to be out of your mind to do that. Now if he was on my property and I thought he might try to enter, an entirely different story.

    He called the cops. He had already decided the kid was a danger.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Chief, you and I may disagree about a lot of things but I think you would never call the cops on someone you thought was a criminal in your "Gated Community" and pursue him at 2:00AM by yourself. Simply not credible.

    I live in a gated community now there is no way I call the cops on a kid I thought was up to no good who was in the public section of the community and pursue them, with or without a gun. You would have to be out of your mind to do that. Now if he was on my property and I thought he might try to enter, an entirely different story.

    He called the cops. He had already decided the kid was a danger.
    I know the majority of the people in my community personally. If I even see a stranger sitting in a car I don't recognize in the middle of the night I may call the cops and let them know. Could be a thief scoping out a house. Who knows. I'm not one to "patrol" the neighborhood but there are people out there that do that type of thing.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    I know the majority of the people in my community personally. If I even see a stranger sitting in a car I don't recognize in the middle of the night I may call the cops and let them know. Could be a thief scoping out a house. Who knows. I'm not one to "patrol" the neighborhood but there are people out there that do that type of thing.
    Agreed and those people who pursue with a loaded gun after calling the cops are dumb asses or killers.

  18. #118
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    Zimmerman observed Martin at 7pm not 2 am. Please lets not forget Martin did nothing suspicious, he was simply walking. Martin call a friend to state he was being followed and was worried.

    Zimmerman bit off more than he could chew, he's not a very bright person.


    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    Let me clarify it for you. First of all your claims are ridiculous. There is no evidence that Zimmerman had his gun drawn. However if someone was following me with a gun drawn I'd run. I certainly wouldn't double back and attack them.

    Furthermore this incident didn't take place in NYC in the 80's. It happened in a quiet gated Florida community. I've lived in gated communities and If I saw some kid I didn't recognize walking around at 2AM I certainly would keep an eye on them and see what they were up to. I may even call the cops to report a suspicious person.

    If said person jumped me from behind and was bashing my head in the ground, and I had been carrying my legal and permitted weapon, there is a good chance the end result would have been the same as what happened with Zimmerman. I don't agree with your take on what happened there so therefore our conclusions differ.

    **EDIT I wanted to add something here. The distance of the gunshot is a critical piece of evidence none of us have seen or know at the moment. In the most likely scenario (the one I point out above where Martin attacks Zimmerman first and the gun is still holstered) Zimmerman would have had to get out his gun seemingly to protect himself. If he does this while Martin is attacking him chances are that gunshot would have been at point blank range. If in another scenario Zimmerman gets free (rolling out or something) and in a rage after having been beaten and punched stands up say 10-15 feet away and shoots Martin in anger.. well the self defense thing doesn't apply as clearly. That type of thing could fall under a manslaughter type category. The forensics on the distance of the gunshot is for me the most critical piece of evidence in the case.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    Zimmerman observed Martin at 7pm not 2 am. Please lets not forget Martin did nothing suspicious, he was simply walking. Martin call a friend to state he was being followed and was worried.

    Zimmerman bit off more than he could chew, he's not a very bright person.
    You are correct on the time. This link is actually really informative. Gives accounts of Martin, Zimmerman and the various eye witness accounts.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

  20. #120
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    From that wiki page here is Zimmerman's account of what happened:

    Zimmerman said he was driving to the grocery store when he spotted Trayvon Martin walking through the neighborhood. Zimmerman's father said that, while his son was not on duty that night as Neighborhood Watch captain, there had been many break-ins and he thought it suspicious that someone he didn't recognize was walking behind the town homes instead of on the street or the sidewalk. Zimmerman therefore called a non-emergency police line to report Martin's behavior and summon police.[187][188] During the call, Zimmerman told the dispatcher that Martin was "coming to check me out."[99] A source to the Orlando Sentinel said in May that Zimmerman told investigators that at one point Martin circled his vehicle,[Note 4] and he rolled up his window to avoid a confrontation.[184][189]
    After telling the police dispatcher that Martin "ran,"[190] Zimmerman left his vehicle to determine his location and ascertain in which direction Martin had fled.[184][191] The dispatcher asked if Zimmerman was following Martin, and Zimmerman replied "Yeah." Then the dispatcher said, "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman replied with "OK" and stated that Martin got away.[190] After a discussion about where Zimmerman would meet police, the call ended, and Zimmerman told investigators he was returning to his vehicle when Martin approached him from his left rear and confronted him.[184][185] According to Zimmerman, Martin then punched him in the face, knocking him down, and began beating his head against the sidewalk.[184][185] Zimmerman said he called out for help while being beaten, and at one point Martin covered his mouth to muffle the screams.[184][185] According to Zimmerman's father, during the struggle while Martin was on top of Zimmerman, Martin saw the gun his son was carrying and said something to the effect of "You're gonna die now" or "You're gonna die tonight" and continued to beat Zimmerman.[183] Zimmerman and Martin struggled over the gun, and Zimmerman shot Martin once in the chest at close range, in self-defense.[184][185][186][Note 5]




    The prosecution would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the account above is untrue.

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