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Thread: Martin/Zimmerman Trial

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnails View Post
    ======================================

    LOL

    Pecan for Mod!

    Get on the bus!
    Yes, the dollar bus of critical thought.
    Last edited by Jungle Shift Jet; 06-11-2013 at 10:33 PM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    Sorry but its pretty obvious what happened there. Zimmerman as part of the neighborhood watch was following the kid through the neighborhood. He calls the police to report a suspicious activity. Kid sees Zimmerman, confronts him then attacks him. T- "you got a problem" Z- "no" T - "well you do now" (Punch, Slam). Zimmerman takes some punches to the head. Evidence of a struggle. Then he shoots the kid in self defense.

    Is it possible that Martin beat Zimmermans ass then was backing off when a now enraged Zimmerman pulls the gun and shoots? Sure. Can it be proven? Unlikely. The evidence was that Zimmerman was attacked first. Then the gun shot.

    The idea that Martin had a gun or anything like that is not only irrelevant but something you just made up. No one has ever claimed that to be the case. What is relevant is the thug nature of Martin who had been suspended for having thief's tool kits at school and who tweeted about beating up bus drivers. It is relevant because the case is essentially about proving that Martin attacked first and Zimmerman feared for his safety.
    Since none of us our privy to the real evidence that the jury will be presented I still don't get the relevance of the "Thug" Nature of Martin. Are you suggesting that "Thugs" like deer should have a hunting season on them to thin the herd?

    Lots of things could have happened. He could have hunted this kid down, he may have shot him in the back if the kid didn't turn around. Perhaps confronted with shooting the kid face to face he lost his balance? Not everyone can shoot an unarmed person when actually confronted. If that's the case it's premeditated murder. It could have been self defense and it could have been something in between.

    Being a "Thug" doesn't give someone the right to hunt them down and shoot them just because they were a "Thug". An unarmed kid was shoot to death by a guy who hunted him with a gun. The news media turned this into something a little crazy. Maybe in a courtroom the jury with the help of the Judge and the attorneys will figure this thing out? Probably not but its worth a shot in the dark.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 06-12-2013 at 09:37 AM.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Since none of us our privy to the real evidence that the jury will be presented I still don't get the relevance of the "Thug" Nature of Martin. Are you suggesting that "Thugs" like deer should have a hunting season on them to thin the herd?

    Lots of things could have happened. He could have hunted this kid down, he may have shot him in the back if the kid didn't turn around. Perhaps confronted with shooting the kid face to face he lost his balance? Not everyone can shoot an unarmed person when actually confronted. If that's the case it's premeditated murder. It could have been self defense and it could have been something in between.

    Being a "Thug" doesn't give someone the right to hunt them down and shoot them just because they were a "Thug". An unarmed kid was shoot to death by a guy who hunted him with a gun. The news media turned this into something a little crazy. Maybe in a courtroom the jury with the help of the Judge and the attorneys will figure this thing out? Probably not but its worth a shot in the dark.
    A shot in the dark, precisely.

    Oh please, a punk kid casing the neighborhood dies by misadventure and the case was going to be dropped until Det. 9th Class B. Hussein Schultz who knows nothing about Benghazi IRS F&F etc inserts himself in the case, decides the kid is a hypothetical son, and hey presto theres a 2nd degree murder charge.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet View Post
    A shot in the dark, precisely.

    Oh please, a punk kid casing the neighborhood dies by misadventure and the case was going to be dropped until Det. 9th Class B. Hussein Schultz who knows nothing about Benghazi IRS F&F etc inserts himself in the case, decides the kid is a hypothetical son, and hey presto theres a 2nd degree murder charge.
    A guy shoots an unarmed "Black Thug" and claims self defense and presto no charges are filed.
    Since this cuts decidedly both ways a jury deciding on the evidence makes a lot of sense. I'm pretty sure the President isn't going to present DNA samples of his relationship to Martin in court. Hopefully the Judge will bar that bit of evidence.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 06-12-2013 at 11:05 AM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    A guy shoots an unarmed "Black Thug" and claims self defense and presto no charges are filed.
    Since this cuts decidedly both ways a jury deciding on the evidence makes a lot of sense. I'm pretty sure the President isn't going to present DNA samples of his relationship to Martin in court. Hopefully the Judge will bar that bit of evidence.
    What are your thoughts if Zimmerman was black?

    If he were white?

    I think personally, that would change everything.

    Just curious.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    What are your thoughts if Zimmerman was black?

    Just curious.
    If Zimmerman was black and had a gun I would figure he was a drug dealing gang banger who murdered one of his boys for holding back some of the cash.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    If Zimmerman was black and had a gun I would figure he was a drug dealing gang banger who murdered one of his boys for holding back some of the cash.
    Nice deflect....how about the facts and an answer?

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Nice deflect....how about the facts and an answer?
    What facts? You make up a hypothetical. Here's my hypothetical answer. When an unarmed man is gunned down by an armed man who was following him I expect his ass to be in jail, a grand jury to indict and a jury to decide whether it was manslaughter or pre-meditated.

    If you're going to be a responsible gun owner and actually carry in the public square you better act responsibly. This guy was a self proclaimed vigilante carrying a weapon and following someone. We have police for a reason.

    Here's a hypothetical, knowing he got out to follow lets suppose he confronted Martin, Martin takes his gun and shoots Zimmerman and claims self defense. Should he walk without charges, or a trial?
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 06-12-2013 at 11:51 AM.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Here's my hypothetical answer. When an unarmed man is gunned down by an armed man who was following him I expect his ass to be in jail, a grand jury to indict and a jury to decide whether it was manslaughter or pre-meditated.
    Look at the deep bias in the language used here. It's rather enlightening tbqh:

    1. Leaves no option that Self-Defense was possible here. Only "manslaughter or pre-meditated".

    2. Stress placed on "Unarmed" despite Martin being considerable younger, stronger and larger than Zimmerman. Technically, Mike Tyson could be "unarmed" too, it does not directly equate to "defenseless" which is the point attempting to be made.

    3. "Gunned Down", as if it were uncontested and as if Zimmerman shot Martin unopposed from 5 paces away, gangland style. Ignores (specificly) that the gunshot was during the course of an intimate physical struggle.

    4. Stress on "following him" implying to follow someone on a public street was itself a crime. Similar in intent to the commonly made implication that Zommerman speaking to martin was also a crime in some way, despite it not being so.

    If you're going to be a responsible gun owner and actually carry in the public square you better act responsibly.
    Most responsible gun owners would claim a legitimate self-defense case was and is acting responsibly.

    Lets be clear here Winston, you've already found Zimmerman guilty.

    You just want a "fair" trial to back up your prejudice.

  10. #50
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    What was left out was Zimmerman following Martin even when the 911 dispatcher asked him not to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    Look at the deep bias in the language used here. It's rather enlightening tbqh:

    1. Leaves no option that Self-Defense was possible here. Only "manslaughter or pre-meditated".

    2. Stress placed on "Unarmed" despite Martin being considerable younger, stronger and larger than Zimmerman. Technically, Mike Tyson could be "unarmed" too, it does not directly equate to "defenseless" which is the point attempting to be made.

    3. "Gunned Down", as if it were uncontested and as if Zimmerman shot Martin unopposed from 5 paces away, gangland style. Ignores (specificly) that the gunshot was during the course of an intimate physical struggle.

    4. Stress on "following him" implying to follow someone on a public street was itself a crime. Similar in intent to the commonly made implication that Zommerman speaking to martin was also a crime in some way, despite it not being so.



    Most responsible gun owners would claim a legitimate self-defense case was and is acting responsibly.

    Lets be clear here Winston, you've already found Zimmerman guilty.

    You just want a "fair" trial to back up your prejudice.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    What was left out was Zimmerman following Martin even when the 911 dispatcher asked him not to.
    Oh, I think that fact's been well covered (almost as well covered as "skittles and Iced Tea"), as has the fact that the 911 Dispatcher is not a cop and has no authority under the law to tell a citizen what to do the way an Officer on scene does, and that this fact (ignoring the civvie dispatcher) alone has no material bearing on self-defense vs. manslaughter in this case.

    It could, of course, be used as evidence of pre-meditated murder I suppose....but there'd have to be a hell of alot of other evidence to support that outcome.

    IMO there is no chance of a conviction involving pre-meditation outside of a corrupt jury, judge or trial.

  12. #52
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    It does show Zimmerman pursued Martin even when advised not to, he ignored the advice. This may go to intent. Who knows, I bet Zimmerman wished he would of never pretended to be the neighborhood watch, he looks like he is trying to eat his way out of this too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    Oh, I think that fact's been well covered (almost as well covered as "skittles and Iced Tea"), as has the fact that the 911 Dispatcher is not a cop and has no authority under the law to tell a citizen what to do the way an Officer on scene does, and that this fact (ignoring the civvie dispatcher) alone has no material bearing on self-defense vs. manslaughter in this case.

    It could, of course, be used as evidence of pre-meditated murder I suppose....but there'd have to be a hell of alot of other evidence to support that outcome.

    IMO there is no chance of a conviction involving pre-meditation outside of a corrupt jury, judge or trial.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    Look at the deep bias in the language used here. It's rather enlightening tbqh:

    1. Leaves no option that Self-Defense was possible here. Only "manslaughter or pre-meditated".

    2. Stress placed on "Unarmed" despite Martin being considerable younger, stronger and larger than Zimmerman. Technically, Mike Tyson could be "unarmed" too, it does not directly equate to "defenseless" which is the point attempting to be made.

    3. "Gunned Down", as if it were uncontested and as if Zimmerman shot Martin unopposed from 5 paces away, gangland style. Ignores (specificly) that the gunshot was during the course of an intimate physical struggle.

    4. Stress on "following him" implying to follow someone on a public street was itself a crime. Similar in intent to the commonly made implication that Zommerman speaking to martin was also a crime in some way, despite it not being so.



    Most responsible gun owners would claim a legitimate self-defense case was and is acting responsibly.

    Lets be clear here Winston, you've already found Zimmerman guilty.

    You just want a "fair" trial to back up your prejudice.
    Lets be clear, I understand the difference between charges and evidence and a verdict. I suspect if I was a potential juror the Judge or the defense would flush me out just as I suspect the prosecution would flush you, Jungle or Chiefs out. I expect the police and the prosecutor to be able to charge when there is less than a guilty verdict possibility. Most responsible gun owners aren't vigilante's to begin with. I don't believe Zimmerman is a responsible gun owner. His actions point to irresponsible. Not proven in court just an opinion. I'm not on the jury Fish, don't worry you can shoot to kill when you feel threatened, just make sure you're really threatened.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 06-12-2013 at 02:37 PM.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post

    IMO there is no chance of a conviction involving pre-meditation outside of a corrupt jury, judge or trial.
    Bonfire of the Vanities. nuff said.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    It does show Zimmerman pursued Martin even when advised not to, he ignored the advice. This may go to intent.
    Indeed, I agree. Refusal to follow advise could be argued as Zim being pre-determined to go do something.

    Works both ways though, intent could also be argued that he was doing what a Neighborhood Watchman does, keeping an eye on things depsite a civvie 911 operator's perhaps ill informed suggestion to stop following the possible perpetrator he was calling to report (thus surely leading to said possible perp. walking away uncontested by the cops arriving ten-15 minutes later).

    Who knows, I bet Zimmerman wished he would of never pretended to be the neighborhood watch, he looks like he is trying to eat his way out of this too.
    Oh, obviously on the "wish he'd not been there". As for eating his way through this, I can't even fathom the level of pressure this guy lives under now. Better him than me, I'm already fat.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    What facts? You make up a hypothetical. Here's my hypothetical answer. When an unarmed man is gunned down by an armed man who was following him I expect his ass to be in jail, a grand jury to indict and a jury to decide whether it was manslaughter or pre-meditated.

    If you're going to be a responsible gun owner and actually carry in the public square you better act responsibly. This guy was a self proclaimed vigilante carrying a weapon and following someone. We have police for a reason.

    Here's a hypothetical, knowing he got out to follow lets suppose he confronted Martin, Martin takes his gun and shoots Zimmerman and claims self defense. Should he walk without charges, or a trial?
    Fair point...my point was simply if this were a white assailant, we would have protesters, Jesse, etc.

    Martin walked around,in a fairly aggressive outfit, in a manner not conducive to peaceful behaviour and when confronted was aggressive towards Zimmerman. He has some responsibility here and unfortunately, HIS BEHAVIOR aided in his death.

    In NO way am I defending Zimmerman. He should have let Martin go and wait for police.
    Last edited by southparkcpa; 06-12-2013 at 02:54 PM.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Fair point...my point was simply if this were a white assailant, we would have protesters, Jesse, etc.
    This kid could have been a bad kid but he was a kid who had his whole life in front of him and people do change and some even grow up. Zimmerman is probably a good guy who made a tragic mistake and couldn't handle the situation he put himself in while armed with deadly force.

    That's it, that's the story and it's not a happy story. I don't see why race is even a part of it other than newspapers have to be sold.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    I don't see why race is even a part of it other than newspapers have to be sold.
    Please address that point to our president who made it point numero uno.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Martin walked around,in a fairly aggressive outfit....
    What does that even mean?

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyn Jet View Post
    What does that even mean?
    I think, many people, would be concerned about a young youth, wearing a hoodie UP over his head, in Florida.

    If I am approached or have 2 youths walking towards me in the dark, wearing hoodies in the summer, and I am alone, my sensory "preservation" mode goes on. Whether I am in Beverly Hills or China Town.

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