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Thread: Student Loans... Can the Pubs be This Stupid?

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Property taxes, income taxes, bond borrowing subsidized by Federal Taxpayers from other States.

    It might well be cheaper to simply subsidize the student than subsidizing institutions?
    I don't see the point to what you are saying here. States choose to offer subsidized tuition rates for in state students.

    We are looking at the problem of kids leaving school with massive debt loads they have a hard time paying back. I say put a limit on how much they can borrow equal to the cost of in state public U tuition.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    I say put a limit on how much they can borrow equal to the cost of in state public U tuition.
    The big colleges won't go for that one bit.

    They'll lobby against it until they've exhausted every last penny.

  3. #63
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    To cut costs make the colleges cut down on their bloated curriculum. First 1-1/2 to 2 years of undergrad is useless. I took most of those courses in HS and they only served to pad my GPA. They could easily shave a year off and save some of these kids upwards of $40k.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    To cut costs make the colleges cut down on their bloated curriculum. First 1-1/2 to 2 years of undergrad is useless. I took most of those courses in HS and they only served to pad my GPA. They could easily shave a year off and save some of these kids upwards of $40k.
    And schools will do this why?

    Its a free market. Don't like the cost of college? Don't go.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    And schools will do this why?

    Its a free market. Don't like the cost of college? Don't go.
    The schools would never do it. But it would immediately cut costs.

    And I agree. But I don't think the free market exists in college education.
    Last edited by DDNYjets; 06-07-2013 at 06:08 PM.

  6. #66
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    The easy fix is to take everyone who goes to college for advertising and shoot them in the face.

    In front of their families. As an example.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    The schools would never do it. But it would immediately cut costs.

    And I agree. But I don't think the free market exists in college education.
    The free market doesn't exist in college education? Lets hear why you say that, please.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    And schools will do this why?

    Its a free market. Don't like the cost of college? Don't Worry. the government will guarantee you a loan. just like the housing bubble. Don't worry, we need your vote, we don't care if you default.

    FUKK the country, go get your degree in vaginal studies and then be a terrific waitress. We will guarantee your loans and now you can live off mommy and daddy til you are 26. remember this when you vote.
    fixed.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    The free market doesn't exist in college education? Lets hear why you say that, please.
    We are discussing the cost of college in this thread. And costs increase no matter what happens with enrollment. General principles or supply and demand don't really apply.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    We are discussing the cost of college in this thread. And costs increase no matter what happens with enrollment. General principles or supply and demand don't really apply.
    Not true exactly. the free market has been altered due to government loans.

    accordingly, the free market doesn't exist to much of the decision process.

    Take awa y guaranteed loans and loans would drop by 70 percent or more as THAT is what banks in a free market believe in the value of the loan in relation to the degree. Absent govt, Univ of Phoenix would go bankrupt.

    In a free market, buyers aren't subsidized and insentivised by government.

    this is so closely resembling the housing crisis its frightening.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Not true exactly. the free market has been altered due to government loans.

    accordingly, the free market doesn't exist to much of the decision process.

    Take awa y guaranteed loans and loans would drop by 70 percent or more as THAT is what banks in a free market believe in the value of the loan in relation to the degree. Absent govt, Univ of Phoenix would go bankrupt.

    In a free market, buyers aren't subsidized and insentivised by government.

    this is so closely resembling the housing crisis its frightening.
    U of Phoenix is a joke.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    U of Phoenix is a joke.
    of course.. but government loans is how they are in business.

    If one cant see the exact parallel between the housing bubble and student debt , well then, no wonder we have low information voters.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Not true exactly. the free market has been altered due to government loans.

    accordingly, the free market doesn't exist to much of the decision process.

    Take awa y guaranteed loans and loans would drop by 70 percent or more as THAT is what banks in a free market believe in the value of the loan in relation to the degree. Absent govt, Univ of Phoenix would go bankrupt.

    In a free market, buyers aren't subsidized and insentivised by government.

    this is so closely resembling the housing crisis its frightening.
    I agree. There seems to be an artificial demand just like the housing bubble. Created by the gov't.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    U of Phoenix is a joke.
    I agree. But why are we seeing some reputable institutions trying to compete with them.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Not true exactly. the free market has been altered due to government loans.

    accordingly, the free market doesn't exist to much of the decision process.

    Take awa y guaranteed loans and loans would drop by 70 percent or more as THAT is what banks in a free market believe in the value of the loan in relation to the degree. Absent govt, Univ of Phoenix would go bankrupt.

    In a free market, buyers aren't subsidized and insentivised by government.

    this is so closely resembling the housing crisis its frightening.
    I'm sorry but this is completely wrong-headed. You don't attack a problem with the quality of an educational institution by making overall student loans more difficult to obtain. That's just ridiculous. Talk about the baby and the bathwater approach! You target the accreditation. But that means actually regulating the quality and that means government. Because this is anathema to you, you try to impose a tactic that is so inefficient it boggles the mind. And it may actually encourage more Phoenix U's to thrive as the highest cost institutions are reputable.

    In addition, college loans are not at all like mortgages. Buying a house is not creating opportunity for advancement and it is not intrinsically productive to society. An educated, skilled citizenry is fundamental to our long term survival. You want to drive access into a dog-eat-dog free market model, you will watch the bottom fall out. Admission should be merit based, not asset based. The free market is not the answer to EVERYTHING. Geez, even old Thomas Jefferson knew that.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    You guys crack me up, telling everyone what majors are worthwhile and what aren't.
    You crack us up with your everlasting nincompoopery, keep it up:

    NPR: Engineering majors can earn over $1,000,000 while Education majors earn over $240,000.

    http://www.npr.org/2011/06/06/137003...s-really-worth


    Georgetown u via Time:

    Lowest-Earning Majors

    Health and Medical Preparatory Programs
    Visual and Performing Arts
    Communication-Disorders Sciences and Services
    Studio Arts
    Drama and Theater Arts
    Social Work
    Human Services and Community Organizations
    Theology and Religious Vocations
    Early-Childhood Education
    Counseling and Psychology


    Read more: http://www.time.com/time/specials/pa...073703,00.html

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet View Post
    You crack us up with your everlasting nincompoopery, keep it up:

    NPR: Engineering majors can earn over $1,000,000 while Education majors earn over $240,000.

    http://www.npr.org/2011/06/06/137003...s-really-worth


    Georgetown u via Time:

    Lowest-Earning Majors

    Health and Medical Preparatory Programs
    Visual and Performing Arts
    Communication-Disorders Sciences and Services
    Studio Arts
    Drama and Theater Arts
    Social Work
    Human Services and Community Organizations
    Theology and Religious Vocations
    Early-Childhood Education
    Counseling and Psychology


    Read more: http://www.time.com/time/specials/pa...073703,00.html
    I missing something here. Is choice of career exclusively driven by maximized return on financial investment? A tremendous number of people in our society make a conscious choice to pursue a career that makes them qualitatively happy, many times at the expense of higher earnings. If someone told me I could trade my career in Mental Health/Hospital Administration for a higher paying job (which it would definitely be) as a root canal specialist, I would opt for the lower pay easily. I'd blow my brains out if I had to be a dentist or orthodontist, or... well, there's a whole bunch of fill in the blanks there.

    What is also interesting in that list is that it includes some careers that are pretty important to our society, even though they are not rewarded at the same level as being an investment banker or computer engineer. So be it. Doesn't make the case that they are not valuable pursuits.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    In addition, college loans are not at all like mortgages. Buying a house is not creating opportunity for advancement and it is not intrinsically productive to society. An educated, skilled citizenry is fundamental to our long term survival. You want to drive access into a dog-eat-dog free market model, you will watch the bottom fall out. Admission should be merit based, not asset based. The free market is not the answer to EVERYTHING. Geez, even old Thomas Jefferson knew that.
    You happen to be right but only in theory. College loans should not be like mortgages but they are becoming them.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    I missing something here. Is choice of career exclusively driven by maximized return on financial investment? A tremendous number of people in our society make a conscious choice to pursue a career that makes them qualitatively happy, many times at the expense of higher earnings. If someone told me I could trade my career in Mental Health/Hospital Administration for a higher paying job (which it would definitely be) as a root canal specialist, I would opt for the lower pay easily. I'd blow my brains out if I had to be a dentist or orthodontist, or... well, there's a whole bunch of fill in the blanks there.

    What is also interesting in that list is that it includes some careers that are pretty important to our society, even though they are not rewarded at the same level as being an investment banker or computer engineer. So be it. Doesn't make the case that they are not valuable pursuits.
    This.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    I missing something here. Is choice of career exclusively driven by maximized return on financial investment? A tremendous number of people in our society make a conscious choice to pursue a career that makes them qualitatively happy, many times at the expense of higher earnings. If someone told me I could trade my career in Mental Health/Hospital Administration for a higher paying job (which it would definitely be) as a root canal specialist, I would opt for the lower pay easily. I'd blow my brains out if I had to be a dentist or orthodontist, or... well, there's a whole bunch of fill in the blanks there.

    What is also interesting in that list is that it includes some careers that are pretty important to our society, even though they are not rewarded at the same level as being an investment banker or computer engineer. So be it. Doesn't make the case that they are not valuable pursuits.
    You can go to school for whatever you want. But when somebody tries to pursue what they "love" and ends up failing the rest of society picks up the tab one way or another. That is where one of the problems lies.

    I agree some jobs/careers are very important to society. Maybe those majors should be dropped from larger institutions and there should be specialty schools for those that offer cheaper tuition.

    And not for nothing but not everyone has to go to college. This notion that everyone has to go to college and get bachelors/masters is absurd. College is not for everyone. And I am willing to bet that a significant portion of those struggling are people that shouldn't have been in college in the first place or where simply not ready @ 18. Many kids end up going go for two years, amass debt and never go back. There are plenty of decent jobs that can be had with specialty training or community college. You probably won't ever be rich but you can live. And that leads to another problem we have that everyone wants to get rich by doing nothing.

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