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Thread: Student Loans... Can the Pubs be This Stupid?

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    LOLz... Architecture is a waste, Good to know.

    BTW I went to art school and make in excess of $100,000 a year.


    Recently noted in a business mag. Architecture is a loser.
    I did business and an MBA. I make 3+ times that. And don't even work.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Not when they default at record pace.

    The top 10 percent in any field make BIG money. Lets stay away from the extremes. Taking out a 100K loan to get a degree in English? My waitress the other evening was getting a masters in English. Ni idea what to do with it.

    Not sure about your top 10% comment. Top 10% in sculpture or opera studies or the famous anthropology? Don't see it. Maybe a job. But they won't be competing $wise with a marketing degree from Northwestern or Stanford. Forget the Ivies.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    No, just silly.

    Hey if you want to buy that house...pay cash!

    My first house I HAD to put down 40% cash. Fact.
    The $1000 down and own a $400k house is a joke concept.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    The easy fix is to take everyone who goes to college for advertising and shoot them in the face.

    In front of their families. As an example.



    Actually advertising is an element of a marketing degree. Took it both undergrad and MBA. People at ad agencies make a fortune. Sought after big time.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    You can go to school for whatever you want. But when somebody tries to pursue what they "love" and ends up failing the rest of society picks up the tab one way or another. That is where one of the problems lies.

    I agree some jobs/careers are very important to society. Maybe those majors should be dropped from larger institutions and there should be specialty schools for those that offer cheaper tuition.

    And not for nothing but not everyone has to go to college. This notion that everyone has to go to college and get bachelors/masters is absurd. College is not for everyone. And I am willing to bet that a significant portion of those struggling are people that shouldn't have been in college in the first place or where simply not ready @ 18. Many kids end up going go for two years, amass debt and never go back. There are plenty of decent jobs that can be had with specialty training or community college. You probably won't ever be rich but you can live. And that leads to another problem we have that everyone wants to get rich by doing nothing.
    The first point is a good one. A major like teaching should perhaps be tracked at lower tuition, or reduced loan rates, or a pay-back through work arrangement... for every year you teach, your debt is reduced by x dollars.

    The whole issue students not being ready, not picking appropriately, not having the basic skills, etc. SHOULD be a factor of the admission process. Even state schools have minimum requirements regarding GPA and/or SAT scores. No system will be perfect.

    Re the last point, Palmetto stated a few posts later that he's done just that: he's rich and he's doing nothing. Of course, Palmetto is a card carrying member of the "if you're richer, your worth more as a person" school. So he obviously never went near a philosophy, religion, ethics, or history class. Too busy making money to buy a big boat, I guess.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by palmetto defender View Post
    Actually advertising is an element of a marketing degree. Took it both undergrad and MBA. People at ad agencies make a fortune. Sought after big time.
    Forget the $1k down. People were getting 105% financing. Buying the house AND getting cash.

    IMO if you can't put 25% down you should not be buying a house. Some would say even more. I think you can currently get loans with just 3% down.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    A major like teaching should perhaps be tracked at lower tuition, or reduced loan rates, or a pay-back through work arrangement... for every year you teach, your debt is reduced by x dollars.
    So, just to be clear, Teachers should get an 8 month work year, 120K+ top end salary, the best benefits available including health and retirement, a tenure system that all but bars being fired for work performence AND they should get cheaper loans that get forgiven if they work in the field they want to work in for X number of years.

    Anything else we can offer?

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    I missing something here. Is choice of career exclusively driven by maximized return on financial investment? A tremendous number of people in our society make a conscious choice to pursue a career that makes them qualitatively happy, many times at the expense of higher earnings. If someone told me I could trade my career in Mental Health/Hospital Administration for a higher paying job (which it would definitely be) as a root canal specialist, I would opt for the lower pay easily. I'd blow my brains out if I had to be a dentist or orthodontist, or... well, there's a whole bunch of fill in the blanks there.

    What is also interesting in that list is that it includes some careers that are pretty important to our society, even though they are not rewarded at the same level as being an investment banker or computer engineer. So be it. Doesn't make the case that they are not valuable pursuits.

    the debate is not about what you major in but how much one borrows, via government subsidy and the default rate. yes...you want to major in sociology and get an MA in it, at a private school. Great. But we need address the default rate.



    I am the CPA for many therapists. Most gross around 100K, after expenses net around 70 to 80K. they have a Phd. the default rate is low as they always have work.


    You want to make loans readily available for anthropology majors so they can have 100K in debt, we simply disagree. Chief has it right IMO.

    limit loans to public school tuition.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    FIMO if you can't put 25% down you should not be buying a house. Some would say even more. I think you can currently get loans with just 3% down.
    In some markets that would be $100,000.00 just to get in the door.

    Thats asking alot. One can put less down and still be a perfectly acceptable fiscal candidate based on credit/work/fiscal history.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    the debate is not about what you major in but how much one borrows, via government subsidy and the default rate. yes...you want to major in sociology and get an MA in it, at a private school. Great. But we need address the default rate.



    I am the CPA for many therapists. Most gross around 100K, after expenses net around 70 to 80K. they have a Phd. the default rate is low as they always have work.


    You want to make loans readily available for anthropology majors so they can have 100K in debt, we simply disagree. Chief has it right IMO.

    limit loans to public school tuition.
    First of all, you do realize that law degrees these days are falling ferociously in worth. Yet who would have predicted that six years ago, before the recession? Engineering is cyclical. But the cycles are tied to the health of specific economic sectors, which can't be predicted. Majoring in English, Philosophy, Anthropology, etc. may on the face of it seem a poor business decision, unless one takes the next step and looks at how it will be leveraged. Philosophy degrees were, not long ago, considered the best degree to have when applying to law schools -- more respected than the less rigorous political science or sociology degrees. So as a vehicle to professional school, it could be an excellent choice. This is much much more complex than many here are making it out to be. It's all retrospective analysis. No one here can tell me what the hot career will be five or six years from now. Yet a beginning student will have to make a call on a major well before that. It's a crap shoot, frankly.

    Personally, I'd rather the federal government gave out grants or vouchers rather than loans. Capped, of course, but grants. We spend 700 billion dollars on defense. I'd rather see 20-30 billion be directed to funding the education of our future generations. But again, that's anathema to the "capitalism must be applied to everything" crowd. Even better, I wish we had a free post-high school education system. Merit based, high standards for entry, matching of student aptitude with course of study, etc. But free. It would be the best investment as a nation we could ever make.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    So, just to be clear, Teachers should get an 8 month work year, 120K+ top end salary, the best benefits available including health and retirement, a tenure system that all but bars being fired for work performence AND they should get cheaper loans that get forgiven if they work in the field they want to work in for X number of years.

    Anything else we can offer?
    I was following Jungle Shift's "nincompoop" thread that indicated teachers as one of the low earning professions post college. You're arguing that they aren't low earning. So who's right? Or is your model applicable in some markets, such as urban NY where living/housing costs make that top end salary not so great... what is a teacher in Montgomery, Alabama making?

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    First of all, you do realize that law degrees these days are falling ferociously in worth. Yet who would have predicted that six years ago, before the recession? Engineering is cyclical. But the cycles are tied to the health of specific economic sectors, which can't be predicted. Majoring in English, Philosophy, Anthropology, etc. may on the face of it seem a poor business decision, unless one takes the next step and looks at how it will be leveraged. Philosophy degrees were, not long ago, considered the best degree to have when applying to law schools -- more respected than the less rigorous political science or sociology degrees. So as a vehicle to professional school, it could be an excellent choice. This is much much more complex than many here are making it out to be. It's all retrospective analysis. No one here can tell me what the hot career will be five or six years from now. Yet a beginning student will have to make a call on a major well before that. It's a crap shoot, frankly.

    Personally, I'd rather the federal government gave out grants or vouchers rather than loans. Capped, of course, but grants. We spend 700 billion dollars on defense. I'd rather see 20-30 billion be directed to funding the education of our future generations. But again, that's anathema to the "capitalism must be applied to everything" crowd. Even better, I wish we had a free post-high school education system. Merit based, high standards for entry, matching of student aptitude with course of study, etc. But free. It would be the best investment as a nation we could ever make.
    everything you say is fine and easily agreeable. My addition is that philosophy , anthroplology etc... Great. Dont borrow 80K undergrad for a degree that has no real source of income.


    I will also add what a JOKE these endowments are. schools have millions that they never spend.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    everything you say is fine and easily agreeable. My addition is that philosophy , anthroplology etc... Great. Dont borrow 80K undergrad for a degree that has no real source of income.


    I will also add what a JOKE these endowments are. schools have millions that they never spend.
    Time for me to quit while I'm ahead.

    Agree about the endowments... much depends on how they are structured. Some are rigorously earmarked for scholarships, but many are not.

    Higher education is so very badly in need of reform, from top to bottom. But like so many other areas, the vested interests are very powerful in keeping it just the way it is. It's the only system in the world that has remained substantially unchanged as a model since the 16th century.

  14. #94
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    Student Loans... Can the Pubs be This Stupid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    In some markets that would be $100,000.00 just to get in the door.

    Thats asking alot. One can put less down and still be a perfectly acceptable fiscal candidate based on credit/work/fiscal history.
    Certainly. And I am sure there are people that put nothing down and have never missed a payment so there is not black and white by any means. I was only giving my opinion and 25% is what I would be comfortable with.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Certainly. And I am sure there are people that put nothing down and have never missed a payment so there is not black and white by any means. I was only giving my opinion and 25% is what I would be comfortable with.
    FWIW...20 percent used to be the norm. then loose lending and the liberal " everyone" deserves a home philosophy hit.

    10 percent is not a bad area IMO.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    FWIW...20 percent used to be the norm. then loose lending and the liberal " everyone" deserves a home philosophy hit.

    10 percent is not a bad area IMO.
    Everyone deserves a home wasn't just a liberal philosophy, it was also the cornerstone of every right wingers claim how great the economy was because of homeownership.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    The first point is a good one. A major like teaching should perhaps be tracked at lower tuition, or reduced loan rates, or a pay-back through work arrangement... for every year you teach, your debt is reduced by x dollars.

    The whole issue students not being ready, not picking appropriately, not having the basic skills, etc. SHOULD be a factor of the admission process. Even state schools have minimum requirements regarding GPA and/or SAT scores. No system will be perfect.

    Re the last point, Palmetto stated a few posts later that he's done just that: he's rich and he's doing nothing. Of course, Palmetto is a card carrying member of the "if you're richer, your worth more as a person" school. So he obviously never went near a philosophy, religion, ethics, or history class. Too busy making money to buy a big boat, I guess.
    Most colleges require "core" courses- history, English, language, philosophy. Took those. I had a course in religion and one in ethics as well. There are still those things called electives.
    Here's the deal on me: have money - true. You ever initiated and run for years a town's youth athletic program for a sport? I have. Spend multiple years coaching youth athletics? I have. Been a member of a town's administration? I have. I have given back all along. Including donations to my college and other charities. Along the way I was smart enough to make money. No big deal. Anybody can do it. If you want. I have contemporaries that did WAY better than me.
    And, though I always take abuse for it, don't forget that I carried the rifle in combat and had a command.
    Sorry you don't like the size of my boat. In truth I could not handle a larger one. LOL.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    Everyone deserves a home wasn't just a liberal philosophy, it was also the cornerstone of every right wingers claim how great the economy was because of homeownership.

    Owning a home is fine IF you can afford it. The Barney Franks et al decided it was discriminatory to ask for too high a down payment. $1k down is ridiculous. 10% is light. 25% may be unaffordable but then buy a cheaper house. People who default should be blackballed for a long time.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    Everyone deserves a home wasn't just a liberal philosophy, it was also the cornerstone of every right wingers claim how great the economy was because of homeownership.
    It wasn't right-wingers pushing loans on unqualified recipients - e.g. the strawberry picker in Vallejo getting a 700K home

    It wasn't right-wingers defaulting en masse

    It wasn't right-wingers repackaging them into securities

    etc

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet View Post
    It wasn't right-wingers pushing loans on unqualified recipients - e.g. the strawberry picker in Vallejo getting a 700K home

    It wasn't right-wingers defaulting en masse

    It wasn't right-wingers repackaging them into securities

    etc
    I am pretty sure both sides of the aisle were culpable in the housing debacle. The only politician I remember alerting us to the problem was John McCain and no one listened.

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