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Thread: Patriots* Aaron Hernandez questioned then charged with murder. MERGED

  1. #2701
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    Mods: I think this is actually an important set of questions and possibly worthy of not being buried here inside this mega-thread. Feel free to move it to its own thread if you agree.

    -------------------------------

    Actually I am with Whitlock here.

    (1) You have to assume that the Patriots heard all of the same rumors as all the other teams about Hernandez coming out of college.

    (2) You have to assume that a billion dollar corporation did their own due dilligence and decided to take a risk on him anyway.

    (3) You really have to assume that even though they drafted him that their own internal security folks were asked to keep closer tabs on him than they might on other (non-gangsta) players

    (4) Then there is the February incident in Florida which, if nothing else should have caused the wheels of internal Patriots Security apparatus to grind a little more quickly.

    (5) Now we understand that there may have been a whole string of questions or suspicious behavior connected to AH over a longer course of time.

    (6) The Patriot team management, front office, ownership, coaches and players saw Aaron Hernandez ON A DAILY BASIS. At least one of his fellow players were saying he was a dirtbag. A really bad guy. How then is it possible for the owner to say what he said about AH back when the new contract was signed?

    (7) The Patriots have a huge financial and reputational risk tied up in this player. They have had plenty of advance notice to be on their guard that bad outcomes could possibly happen around him.

    And so the question is......


    WHAT IN THE FLYING F*CK DID THE PATRIOTS KNOW AND WHEN DID THEY KNOW IT?

    ONLY A COMPLETE IMBECILE IS GOING TO BELIEVE THAT THEY KNEW NOTHING BEFORE THIS ARREST DROPPED OUT OF THE SKY.

    Or perhaps the more reasonable explanation might this....

    Just like Spygate the Patriots brass knew exactly what they were doing and what risks they were taking but they figured that if the crap hit the fan that they walk away claiming no knowledge if the situation. Sorry but that simply does not fly. It didn't fly then and it really should not be allowed fly now. The Patriots are not innocent victims of bad stuff randomly happening here. They are in many respects partners with AH in all of his activities because they wanted accrue the benefits of his on the field contributions.
    LOL. Red Alert!

    When Booz Allen Hamilton becomes accomplice to Edward Snowden, I'll expect the New England Patriots to become accomplice to Aaron Hernandez.

    You're out of your mind. That's not how it works.
    Last edited by BleedGreen314; 06-28-2013 at 11:13 AM.

  2. #2702
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    Quote Originally Posted by BleedGreen314 View Post
    When Booz Allen Hamilton becomes accomplice to Edward Snowden, I'll expect the New England Patriots to become accomplice to Aaron Hernandez.

    You're out of your mind. That's not how it works.
    You will see Booz Allen share in government and military contracts drop like a rock. Cost of Snowden "disclosures" will be astronomical to them.

    Will Foxboro Cheating Murderers be punished nearly the same?

  3. #2703
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianGreen View Post
    You will see Booz Allen share in government and military contracts drop like a rock. Cost of Snowden "disclosures" will be astronomical to them.

    Will Foxboro Cheating Murderers be punished nearly the same?
    In a court of law, brilliance.

  4. #2704
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    Mods: I think this is actually an important set of questions and possibly worthy of not being buried here inside this mega-thread. Feel free to move it to its own thread if you agree.

    -------------------------------

    Actually I am with Whitlock here.

    (1) You have to assume that the Patriots heard all of the same rumors as all the other teams about Hernandez coming out of college.

    (2) You have to assume that a billion dollar corporation did their own due dilligence and decided to take a risk on him anyway.

    (3) You really have to assume that even though they drafted him that their own internal security folks were asked to keep closer tabs on him than they might on other (non-gangsta) players

    (4) Then there is the February incident in Florida which, if nothing else should have caused the wheels of internal Patriots Security apparatus to grind a little more quickly.

    (5) Now we understand that there may have been a whole string of questions or suspicious behavior connected to AH over a longer course of time.

    (6) The Patriot team management, front office, ownership, coaches and players saw Aaron Hernandez ON A DAILY BASIS. At least one of his fellow players were saying he was a dirtbag. A really bad guy. How then is it possible for the owner to say what he said about AH back when the new contract was signed?

    (7) The Patriots have a huge financial and reputational risk tied up in this player. They have had plenty of advance notice to be on their guard that bad outcomes could possibly happen around him.

    And so the question is......


    WHAT IN THE FLYING F*CK DID THE PATRIOTS KNOW AND WHEN DID THEY KNOW IT?

    ONLY A COMPLETE IMBECILE IS GOING TO BELIEVE THAT THEY KNEW NOTHING BEFORE THIS ARREST DROPPED OUT OF THE SKY.

    Or perhaps the more reasonable explanation might this....

    Just like Spygate the Patriots brass knew exactly what they were doing and what risks they were taking but they figured that if the crap hit the fan that they walk away claiming no knowledge if the situation. Sorry but that simply does not fly. It didn't fly then and it really should not be allowed fly now. The Patriots are not innocent victims of bad stuff randomly happening here. They are in many respects partners with AH in all of his activities because they wanted accrue the benefits of his on the field contributions.
    This is one of those situations where hindsight bias and confirmation bias converge to form a really silly and illogical conclusion. Obviously we all love for some great conspiracy in which the evil Pats were turning a blind eye to machine gun Kelly running rampant through their locker room but lets look at the facts of where your argument takes us:

    1) you are now holding the Patriots to a higher standards than law enforcement. Whether or not he yelled at welker or acted like a thug or there were "rumors" that now inevitably come out after the fact he wasnt arrested for anything. Not even the miami shooting. Given that the suit was dropped its possible the Pats never even knew about any of it along with the rest of the world including the cops who until now couldnt tie him to the 2012 shooting or arresthim for anything else.

    2) The Pats drafted him in the 4th round, not the 6th. This idea being leaked by anonymous GMs that he was going to go undrafted is kind of hard to believe in a league with pacman jones and dez bryant and bruce irvin etc. Really even if you assume that 100% of available info about him being involved in a shooting and throwing up gang signs was out there that puts him in a class with about 100 other guys that teams have taken a chance on.

    3) the locker room isnt a confessional. As close as these guys may be with each other compared to the public, a guy with serious gang/thug mentality isnt going to open up about it to his teammates. Sure I bet there were moments that in retrospect were eye.opening but theres also a lot of steve smith type hot heads that guys deal with and ignore also. If you look at the way he conducted himself in interviews etc he clearly knew not to go around advertising that he was killing people, as dumb as everything else he did was.

    Sorry but occams tells me this is bad luck for the Pats and not much more.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

  5. #2705
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetsFan24 View Post
    This is one of those situations where hindsight bias and confirmation bias converge to form a really silly and illogical conclusion. Obviously we all love for some great conspiracy in which the evil Pats were turning a blind eye to machine gun Kelly running rampant through their locker room but lets look at the facts of where your argument takes us:

    1) you are now holding the Patriots to a higher standards than law enforcement. Whether or not he yelled at welker or acted like a thug or there were "rumors" that now inevitably come out after the fact he wasnt arrested for anything. Not even the miami shooting. Given that the suit was dropped its possible the Pats never even knew about any of it along with the rest of the world including the cops who until now couldnt tie him to the 2012 shooting or arresthim for anything else.

    2) The Pats drafted him in the 4th round, not the 6th. This idea being leaked by anonymous GMs that he was going to go undrafted is kind of hard to believe in a league with pacman jones and dez bryant and bruce irvin etc. Really even if you assume that 100% of available info about him being involved in a shooting and throwing up gang signs was out there that puts him in a class with about 100 other guys that teams have taken a chance on.

    3) the locker room isnt a confessional. As close as these guys may be with each other compared to the public, a guy with serious gang/thug mentality isnt going to open up about it to his teammates. Sure I bet there were moments that in retrospect were eye.opening but theres also a lot of steve smith type hot heads that guys deal with and ignore also. If you look at the way he conducted himself in interviews etc he clearly knew not to go around advertising that he was killing people, as dumb as everything else he did was.

    Sorry but occams tells me this is bad luck for the Pats and not much more.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
    I don't think the Urban Meyer connection to the Pats and the program he runs that's been full of near criminal and real criminals is a coincidence.

    BB built his defensive reputation on the back of the Greatest LB in NFL history. A crack addict who was protected by Parcells and BB for years.

    Winning is everything as it should be. However when you're sponsored by boner drugs the guys who are paying the freight want to make sure their dicks aren't going to fall off. You have to balance winning with "Integrity"

  6. #2706
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianGreen View Post
    You will see Booz Allen share in government and military contracts drop like a rock. Cost of Snowden "disclosures" will be astronomical to them.

    Will Foxboro Cheating Murderers be punished nearly the same?
    They (BA) will merge or change their name to retain their position

  7. #2707
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    I don't think the Urban Meyer connection to the Pats and the program he runs that's been full of near criminal and real criminals is a coincidence.

    BB built his defensive reputation on the back of the Greatest LB in NFL history. A crack addict who was protected by Parcells and BB for years.

    Winning is everything as it should be. However when you're sponsored by boner drugs the guys who are paying the freight want to make sure their dicks aren't going to fall off. You have to balance winning with "Integrity"
    I went looking online for Integrity; closest I got was an offer to buy Infinity...I thought about that for a long time....anyway...uhh

    Are you sure Integrity exists? having trouble here

  8. #2708
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetsFan24 View Post
    This is one of those situations where hindsight bias and confirmation bias converge to form a really silly and illogical conclusion. Obviously we all love for some great conspiracy in which the evil Pats were turning a blind eye to machine gun Kelly running rampant through their locker room but lets look at the facts of where your argument takes us:

    1) you are now holding the Patriots to a higher standards than law enforcement. Whether or not he yelled at welker or acted like a thug or there were "rumors" that now inevitably come out after the fact he wasnt arrested for anything. Not even the miami shooting. Given that the suit was dropped its possible the Pats never even knew about any of it along with the rest of the world including the cops who until now couldnt tie him to the 2012 shooting or arresthim for anything else.

    2) The Pats drafted him in the 4th round, not the 6th. This idea being leaked by anonymous GMs that he was going to go undrafted is kind of hard to believe in a league with pacman jones and dez bryant and bruce irvin etc. Really even if you assume that 100% of available info about him being involved in a shooting and throwing up gang signs was out there that puts him in a class with about 100 other guys that teams have taken a chance on.

    3) the locker room isnt a confessional. As close as these guys may be with each other compared to the public, a guy with serious gang/thug mentality isnt going to open up about it to his teammates. Sure I bet there were moments that in retrospect were eye.opening but theres also a lot of steve smith type hot heads that guys deal with and ignore also. If you look at the way he conducted himself in interviews etc he clearly knew not to go around advertising that he was killing people, as dumb as everything else he did was.

    Sorry but occams tells me this is bad luck for the Pats and not much more.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
    Please stop with the logic and common sense...it's boring! It's far more entertaining to implicate Kraft as AH's getaway driver. Krafty wasn't captured on surveillance cuz the little guy's head was at dashboard level.

  9. #2709
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetsFan24 View Post
    This is one of those situations where hindsight bias and confirmation bias converge to form a really silly and illogical conclusion. Obviously we all love for some great conspiracy in which the evil Pats were turning a blind eye to machine gun Kelly running rampant through their locker room but lets look at the facts of where your argument takes us:

    1) you are now holding the Patriots to a higher standards than law enforcement. Whether or not he yelled at welker or acted like a thug or there were "rumors" that now inevitably come out after the fact he wasnt arrested for anything. Not even the miami shooting. Given that the suit was dropped its possible the Pats never even knew about any of it along with the rest of the world including the cops who until now couldnt tie him to the 2012 shooting or arresthim for anything else.

    2) The Pats drafted him in the 4th round, not the 6th. This idea being leaked by anonymous GMs that he was going to go undrafted is kind of hard to believe in a league with pacman jones and dez bryant and bruce irvin etc. Really even if you assume that 100% of available info about him being involved in a shooting and throwing up gang signs was out there that puts him in a class with about 100 other guys that teams have taken a chance on.

    3) the locker room isnt a confessional. As close as these guys may be with each other compared to the public, a guy with serious gang/thug mentality isnt going to open up about it to his teammates. Sure I bet there were moments that in retrospect were eye.opening but theres also a lot of steve smith type hot heads that guys deal with and ignore also. If you look at the way he conducted himself in interviews etc he clearly knew not to go around advertising that he was killing people, as dumb as everything else he did was.

    Sorry but occams tells me this is bad luck for the Pats and not much more.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
    You should be commended on your dedication to posting given you wrote that lengthy post from a cell phone. You sir, are a hero amongst texters... I salute you

  10. #2710
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotReign View Post
    Please stop with the logic and common sense...it's boring! It's far more entertaining to implicate Kraft as AH's getaway driver. Krafty wasn't captured on surveillance cuz the little guy's head was at dashboard level.
    Belicheat was not in car (he on purpose left a country to have a solid alibi).
    So what?
    We all know, who is a real kingpin in this ordeal.

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    You guys still dont get it.

    America loves a redemption story. Tebow comes in...his affect on the locker room...the Pats go 14-2...BB, Tom and Vince "overcome" adversity...this stuff is all pre-written in the stars. And the NFL PR department. The NFL is too big to let a few murders slow down the brand. Dont be rubes.

  13. #2713
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotReign View Post
    Please stop with the logic and common sense...it's boring! It's far more entertaining to implicate Kraft as AH's getaway driver. Krafty wasn't captured on surveillance cuz the little guy's head was at dashboard level.
    the truth lies somewhere in between. No, neither Kraft nor BB knew that AH would be (or was) a cold blooded murderer. But, the Pats did not conduct an effective due diligence and looked the other way at his past before drafting him. Also, me thinks they were aware that AH had a dark side outside of the clubhouse. We do know that AH royally creeped out Matt Light. People knew he was a bad character.

  14. #2714
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2® View Post
    You guys still dont get it.

    America loves a redemption story. Tebow comes in...his affect on the locker room...the Pats go 14-2...BB, Tom and Vince "overcome" adversity...this stuff is all pre-written in the stars. And the NFL PR department. The NFL is too big to let a few murders slow down the brand. Dont be rubes.
    the brand was slowed down a long time ago, thanks to David Tyree.

  15. #2715
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    Once again this is an example of some people wanting to have both ends of the same argument.

    We are told that the Pats are soooooo..... successful because they go the extra mile, because they do better research because they are smarter than everyone else. As a result of this they achieve superior outcomes based upon more and better information as well as a decision making process with sharper minds involved.

    This is what we have been told.

    They know Aaron Hernandez better than anyone else in the NFL because they saw him up close and personal every day. Every single day of the week for the most of three years. Once again how is it even conceivable that this organization, smarter than everyone else and willing to go extra miles to gather better intel.... how is it even possible that they knew nothing?

    The answer is that it is not possible. Jason Whitlock also does not believe that it is possible and neither do I. If nothing else the aftermath of the February shooting incident in Florida must have triggered an internal Patriots investigation and I am sure they did not like whatever it is that they found out then.

    At some point this group of diseased scumbags has to stop being given the same benefit of the doubt that decent people will give as a matter of course to someone they do not know. They have collectively earned over many years our skepticism when they give us their word on something. They have earned this distrust because of their track record. This is a case where the Commissioner should instruct the Patriots to release the results of any internal investigations so that the public can see how much they really knew and when they really knew it.

    What are they hiding?
    Last edited by EM31; 06-28-2013 at 12:37 PM.

  16. #2716
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    Quote Originally Posted by McGinley View Post
    Good to see some of these media members waking up to the fact that all of this "patriot way" stuff is bs.
    It's about time!

    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Even if the evidence is circumstantial.... they could probably get him a few years for obstruction all by itself.

    Hernandez is totally done.
    People are often convicted on circumstantial evidence. IMO, the DA's case looks very strong.

    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    Mods: I think this is actually an important set of questions and possibly worthy of not being buried here inside this mega-thread. Feel free to move it to its own thread if you agree.

    -------------------------------

    Actually I am with Whitlock here.

    (1) You have to assume that the Patriots heard all of the same rumors as all the other teams about Hernandez coming out of college.

    (2) You have to assume that a billion dollar corporation did their own due dilligence and decided to take a risk on him anyway.

    (3) You really have to assume that even though they drafted him that their own internal security folks were asked to keep closer tabs on him than they might on other (non-gangsta) players

    (4) Then there is the February incident in Florida which, if nothing else should have caused the wheels of internal Patriots Security apparatus to grind a little more quickly.

    (5) Now we understand that there may have been a whole string of questions or suspicious behavior connected to AH over a longer course of time.

    (6) The Patriot team management, front office, ownership, coaches and players saw Aaron Hernandez ON A DAILY BASIS. At least one of his fellow players were saying he was a dirtbag. A really bad guy. How then is it possible for the owner to say what he said about AH back when the new contract was signed?

    (7) The Patriots have a huge financial and reputational risk tied up in this player. They have had plenty of advance notice to be on their guard that bad outcomes could possibly happen around him.

    And so the question is......


    WHAT IN THE FLYING F*CK DID THE PATRIOTS KNOW AND WHEN DID THEY KNOW IT?

    ONLY A COMPLETE IMBECILE IS GOING TO BELIEVE THAT THEY KNEW NOTHING BEFORE THIS ARREST DROPPED OUT OF THE SKY.

    Or perhaps the more reasonable explanation might this....

    Just like Spygate the Patriots brass knew exactly what they were doing and what risks they were taking but they figured that if the crap hit the fan that they walk away claiming no knowledge if the situation. Sorry but that simply does not fly. It didn't fly then and it really should not be allowed fly now. The Patriots are not innocent victims of bad stuff randomly happening here. They are in many respects partners with AH in all of his activities because they wanted accrue the benefits of his on the field contributions.
    Great, I mean fantastic, post. You are asking all the right questions that the esteemed media should be asking but are not.
    Last edited by jetssjumets; 06-28-2013 at 12:50 PM.

  17. #2717
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetsFan24 View Post
    This is one of those situations where hindsight bias and confirmation bias converge to form a really silly and illogical conclusion. Obviously we all love for some great conspiracy in which the evil Pats were turning a blind eye to machine gun Kelly running rampant through their locker room but lets look at the facts of where your argument takes us:

    1) you are now holding the Patriots to a higher standards than law enforcement. Whether or not he yelled at welker or acted like a thug or there were "rumors" that now inevitably come out after the fact he wasnt arrested for anything. Not even the miami shooting. Given that the suit was dropped its possible the Pats never even knew about any of it along with the rest of the world including the cops who until now couldnt tie him to the 2012 shooting or arresthim for anything else.

    2) The Pats drafted him in the 4th round, not the 6th. This idea being leaked by anonymous GMs that he was going to go undrafted is kind of hard to believe in a league with pacman jones and dez bryant and bruce irvin etc. Really even if you assume that 100% of available info about him being involved in a shooting and throwing up gang signs was out there that puts him in a class with about 100 other guys that teams have taken a chance on.

    3) the locker room isnt a confessional. As close as these guys may be with each other compared to the public, a guy with serious gang/thug mentality isnt going to open up about it to his teammates. Sure I bet there were moments that in retrospect were eye.opening but theres also a lot of steve smith type hot heads that guys deal with and ignore also. If you look at the way he conducted himself in interviews etc he clearly knew not to go around advertising that he was killing people, as dumb as everything else he did was.

    Sorry but occams tells me this is bad luck for the Pats and not much more.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
    I am saying the the Patriots probably knew enough to release him based upon an internal investigations after the February shooting incident in Florida.

    Yet they did not do so.

    Maybe they had some information even earlier than that. They have the most to lose and they are supposedly the most diligent of all teams when it comes to gathering intelligence. It is ridiculous to think that there was not a frantic internal Patriots investigation as a result of the February incident. So why not open up the results of that investigation to let the rest of us know what it is that they knew.

    I can practically hear the shredders being cranked up right now.

  18. #2718
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    I am saying the the Patriots probably knew enough to release him based upon an internal investigations after the February shooting incident in Florida.

    Yet they did not do so.

    Maybe they had some information even earlier than that. They have the most to lose and they are supposedly the most diligent of all teams when it comes to gathering intelligence. It is ridiculous to think that there was not a frantic internal Patriots investigation as a result of the February incident. So why not open up the results of that investigation to let the rest of us know what it is that they knew.

    I can practically hear the shredders being cranked up right now.
    So they are OK with shooting people, just not killing them outright.
    It is Patriots Way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianGreen View Post
    So they are OK with shooting people, just not killing them outright.
    It is Patriots Way.
    Obviously. It's a rogue criminal enterprise for a reason.

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    This is breaking news. Aaron Hernandez is now under investigation by the NFL. I wonder if he'll be suspended?

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...142148549.html
    NFL security conducting its own investigation of Aaron Hernandez


    Former New England Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez cleared waivers on Thursday, the same day that the NFL released a statement saying that they will not approve any contract between a team and Hernandez until after NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has a chance to meet with Hernandez.
    The likelihood of that meeting ever happening are slim, but the NFL is conducting its own investigation of Hernandez, reports Alex Marvez of FOXSports.com.

    According to Marvez, information gained from the NFL's investigation will be used by Goodell when he decides on whether or not to suspend Hernandez for violating the league's personal conduct policy.

    Reports of multiple failed drug tests at Florida and concerns about his off-field associations caused Hernandez to fall to the fourth round of the 2010 NFL draft. The Patriots protected themselves in Hernandez's rookie contract, which contained just $200,000 in guaranteed money, well below the nearly $500,000 in guaranteed money his draft slot had warranted. Over his first two seasons in the league, Hernandez stayed out of trouble and remained available to the Patriots, combining with Rob Gronkowski to form the best tight end duo in the league. Hernandez's production on the field his first two seasons in the league prompted the Patriots to sign him to a five-year, $37.5 million extension last August that included $16 million in guaranteed money and an additional $2.5 million in incentives.

    Marvez adds that the Patriots had some "concerns" about some of Hernandez's associations away from the field, but NFL security director Jeff Miller told Marvez that it's difficult to criticize the Patriots for not knowing more about Hernandez's off-field issues.

    "That’s a difficult criticism to make of any club," Miller said. "It’s hard to predict how a young man is going to perform and mature. Certainly there are players who have been drafted where teams know they are taking a calculated risk. Sometimes, the risk is greater than others.

    "Hindsight is always 20/20 in a situation where a player gets into serious trouble and people say, 'See, I knew this was going to happen.' Even though I’m sure there are a lot of clubs that have concerns about certain players going into the draft, if those players are drafted, the teams try to work with them through their player engagement and security personnel to take the steps necessary to prevent the kinds of things that can cause big problems to a player and a team."

    Miller is right. It's hard to criticize the Patriots as no one could have predicted that Hernandez would be charged with first-degree murder three seasons into his career. The events of the last two weeks have come as a complete shock to everyone.

    That said, the Patriots deserve criticism for the timing of the $37.5 million extension they signed Hernandez to last summer.

    Former Patriots left tackle Matt Light told the Dayton Daily News recently that he "never believed in anything Aaron Hernandez stood for" during their two seasons as teammates. The Boston Globe reported on June 21 that, in 2010, Hernandez directed an expletive-filled tirade at veteran wide receiver Wes Welker when the perennial Pro Bowler told the rookie tight end to figure out how to use the video equipment on his own. That same Boston Globe article reported that Hernandez spent "little, if any" time off the field with his teammates.


    Locker rooms are small, as is the town of Foxboro, Mass. and the surrounding communities. While no one could have predicted a first-degree murder charge, or Hernandez's possible involvement in a double-murder in Boston last July, the Patriots had to have some concerns about Hernandez being a lone wolf inside their locker room. After being extremely cautious with Hernandez's rookie contract, it's surprising that the Patriots weren't equally as cautious when it came to his second, more lucrative deal.
    Last edited by jetstream23; 06-28-2013 at 12:58 PM.

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