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Thread: Patriots* Aaron Hernandez questioned then charged with murder. MERGED

  1. #3121
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    THE PATRIOT WAY gift that keeps on giving


    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...192308471.html

    Warrants: Aaron Hernandez ‘argumentative’ with police investigation

    .By Jay Hart | Shutdown Corner – 1 hour 49 minutes ago..


    When police officers showed up to Aaron Hernandez's home on June 17, the day after Odin Lloyd was found shot to death, they asked him about a vehicle he had rented. Hernandez told them he'd rented the car for Odin Lloyd, whom he hadn't seen since Sunday. According to documents released Tuesday, Hernandez became argumentative, asking investigators, "What's with all the questions?" A few moments later, when investigators told the former New England Patriots tight end they were there to conduct an investigation into a death, Hernandez responded by going inside his house, slamming the door and locking it.

    According to police records, "Mr. Hernandez slammed the door and relocked it behind him." It continues, "Mr. Hernandez did not ask officers whose death was being investigated. Mr. Hernandez's demeanor did not indicate any concern for the death of any person."

    Some 10 minutes later, Hernandez went back outside and informed investigators that he would follow officers to the police station.

    The release of eight warrants totaling 156 pages reveals a police investigation into the shooting death of Lloyd that focused on cell phones, video surveillance inside Hernandez's home and multiple vehicles tied to the former New England Patriot.

    How did police happen upon Hernandez so quickly? Because when they found Lloyd's body, they discovered in his pocket a set of keys to a Chevrolet Suburban rented by Hernandez.

    According to the report, "Police having learned that the deceased Mr. Lloyd and the occupant of the house, Mr. Hernandez, were both connected to the then missing Chevrolet Suburban, these officers had concerns for the safety of Mr. Hernandez."

    In a search of Hernandez's home, police found a box of "Game Loads" .22 bullets. Inside a safe, they discovered a scale and dish used to weigh drugs. From Hernandez's home in North Attleboro, police removed clothes, shoes, a wrist watch, an FEG Hungarian rifle and "1 gunshot residue kit from mattress."

    Here are some key findings from the warrants and affidavits therein:

    • Surveillance video taken from Hernandez's home shows him meeting two men in his driveway at 12:40 a.m. on the day Lloyd was killed. Video shows Hernandez holding a gun as he walks inside.

    • In his pocket, Odin Lloyd had a set of keys to a rental car registered to Aaron Hernandez. When police questioned Hernandez, he informed them he had rented the car for Lloyd. Hernandez said he had last seen Lloyd on Sunday, the day before he was shot and killed.

    • Shayanna Jenkins, Hernandez's fiancee, told police she and Hernandez had gone out to dinner for Father's Day. When they returned, she went to bed early. Jenkins cried when told by police that Lloyd had been killed.

    • Hernandez rented a Nissan Altima. Massachusetts State Police claim tire tracks found near Lloyd's body were consistent with a Nissan Altima.

    • The report states that "there appeared to be soil, similar in color and appearance to that at the location where Mr. Lloyd was found, on the tires and lower panels of the vehicle behind the tires. This soil was also seen within the tire tread(s) and wheel(s) well of the tires of the silver Nissan Altima."

    • Jenkins described Lloyd as a marijuana dealer. Investigators spoke to two dozen individuals who knew Lloyd and not one described him as a drug dealer.

    • Witnesses say they saw Hernandez and Lloyd together at Rumor, a Boston-area nightclub, on Friday night. They told police Hernandez had "what appeared to be a handgun in his waistband" at the club.

    The warrant further details the case prosecutors made when charging Hernandez with murder – that he texted Lloyd on Sunday night, asking him to hang out, that he texted Ernest Wallace to "hurry ur ass up," that he bought gas and bubble gum at a gas station, picked up Lloyd in the Nissan Altima, which was returned with a piece of bubble gum and what a rental agent believed was a bullet inside. The bullet, found in a Dumpster, turned out to be a spent .45 caliber cartridge casing.

    Details from the warrant continue:

    • Lloyd's wounds were inflicted by .45 caliber bullets.

    • Five spent casings were found near Lloyd's body. All five were fired from the same gun, which still has not been found.

    • The police searched continued to Hernandez's "flop house" in Franklin, Mass., not far from his home in North Attleboro. There, police discovered a loaded .45 Glock and ammunition of different calibers. According to the warrant, Hernandez does not have a license to carry a firearm.

    The warrant states that "investigators believe that Aaron Hernandez and two other male individuals were present at the location and time of the murder of Odin Lloyd." It does not state that Hernandez was or was not the shooter.


    I’m no lawyer but if all the police have is the evidence listed in today’s ESPN article it does not sound like the state can get a conviction on Hernandez.

    Acting guilty is not enough to convict someone.

  2. #3122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
    I’m no lawyer but if all the police have is the evidence listed in today’s ESPN article it does not sound like the state can get a conviction on Hernandez.

    Acting guilty is not enough to convict someone.
    It's all circumstantial (though pretty strong circumstantial) until one of the 2 mopes flips on him. And it sounds like that may have happened already - I don't know how else they get pieces of conversation from the car.

  3. #3123
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASG0531 View Post
    You think that the most reasonable explanation for Hernandez driving to Gillette under news copter-cam was to drop off the murder weapon in broad daylight? You think that's the most obvious explanation?
    Yes. Where else could he go, out of the sight of the police, and have such a wide range of places to stash the gun?

    It's in the Razor.

  4. #3124
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlairThomasFumble View Post
    Yes. Where else could he go, out of the sight of the police, and have such a wide range of places to stash the gun?

    It's in the Razor.
    Um, just about anywhere between the time he shot the guy and a helicopter was tracking his every move out of the house?

    They already searched his locker. There's footage of him leaving his car to walk into the stadium. You think Hernandez waited until the world was watching him leave his house in broad daylight to drive all the way to Gillette to carry a gun in his underwear to stash under BB's desk? You find this plausible?

    Go call 911 immediately because apparently you've got some inside info the cops don't.

  5. #3125
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    He stashed the gun in a potato bag at 5 guys burgers at Gillette Place. Someone's in for a big surprise (bang) when they get their french fries.

  6. #3126
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    Accomplice told that Hernandez did it

    http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/...ourt-documents


    Carlos Ortiz, one of the alleged accomplices in the Aaron Hernandez case, says he was told that Hernandez said he killed Odin Lloyd.

    According to court documents released Tuesday, Ortiz told police that Ernest Wallace, a second alleged accomplice, told him the day after the shooting that Hernandez admitted to killing Lloyd.

    After Lloyd was shot near Hernandez's home in North Attleborough, Mass., Ortiz and Wallace returned to Bristol, Conn. That is where, according to court records made public in Florida today, Ortiz told police that Wallace said Hernandez shot Lloyd.

    The documents were drawn up to justify a search of Wallace's home in Miramar, Fla., where Wallace was arrested about 10 days ago.

  7. #3127
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    fun watching ASG make an A$$ out of himself desperately trying to defend a murderer just because he wore the stinking Flying Elvis Logo Gang colors

  8. #3128
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    Sure sounds like the multi million dollar mansion will be out of the picture for the next 25 to life, what a dumb ass!!!!!

  9. #3129
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    Quote Originally Posted by LockeJET View Post
    http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/...ourt-documents


    Carlos Ortiz, one of the alleged accomplices in the Aaron Hernandez case, says he was told that Hernandez said he killed Odin Lloyd.

    According to court documents released Tuesday, Ortiz told police that Ernest Wallace, a second alleged accomplice, told him the day after the shooting that Hernandez admitted to killing Lloyd.

    After Lloyd was shot near Hernandez's home in North Attleborough, Mass., Ortiz and Wallace returned to Bristol, Conn. That is where, according to court records made public in Florida today, Ortiz told police that Wallace said Hernandez shot Lloyd.

    The documents were drawn up to justify a search of Wallace's home in Miramar, Fla., where Wallace was arrested about 10 days ago.
    Yep. The minute Hernandez was no longer 'NFL', he was no longer someone these guys would even consider standing up for.

  10. #3130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
    I’m no lawyer but if all the police have is the evidence listed in today’s ESPN article it does not sound like the state can get a conviction on Hernandez.

    Acting guilty is not enough to convict someone.
    I am a lawyer. If the .45 slugs match his Glock and/or someone rats, he is a goner.
    Last edited by Digetydog; 07-09-2013 at 10:15 PM.

  11. #3131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    I am a lawyer. If the .45 slugs match hid Glock and/or someone rats, he is a goner.
    Well I'm not, but I've watched plenty of law and order, and I've got a hunnert bucks they got em in separate rooms tellin 'em "if the other guy talks first, OR the slug tests come back a match, you're fried" - then a somewhat attractive but nondescript female cop walks in fingering a manila envelope, and everyone starts singing...

  12. #3132
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASG0531 View Post
    Um, just about anywhere between the time he shot the guy and a helicopter was tracking his every move out of the house?

    They already searched his locker. There's footage of him leaving his car to walk into the stadium. You think Hernandez waited until the world was watching him leave his house in broad daylight to drive all the way to Gillette to carry a gun in his underwear to stash under BB's desk? You find this plausible?

    Go call 911 immediately because apparently you've got some inside info the cops don't.
    If you still have the murder weapon and fear a police search of your house then I would think one of the few options left open to you is to do exactly as you describe, no?

    A full search of the Patriots facility does not seem to be excessive under the circumstances.

    Why would the Patriots not invite such a thing?

  13. #3133
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    If you still have the murder weapon and fear a police search of your house then I would think one of the few options left open to you is to do exactly as you describe, no?

    A full search of the Patriots facility does not seem to be excessive under the circumstances.

    Why would the Patriots not invite such a thing?
    The only reason anyone has brought up the idea of Hernandez stashing the murder weapon at Gillette is in the hope that if found there, someone in the Pats organization could be slapped with criminal charges in some capacity, or the organization could somehow be tied more closely to culpability. Maybe he drove back to Bristol and hid it under an ESPN anchor desk, they found it, and won't say anything about it because ESPN got paid off by Kraft?


    I'm assuming the police have searched anywhere and everywhere in Hernandez' world that they deemed of interest at this point.
    Last edited by ASG0531; 07-09-2013 at 10:27 PM.

  14. #3134
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASG0531 View Post
    The only reason anyone has brought up the idea of Hernandez stashing the murder weapon at Gillette is in the hope that if found there, someone in the Pats organization could be slapped with criminal charges in some capacity, or the organization could somehow be tied more closely to culpability. Maybe he drove back to Bristol and hid it under an ESPN anchor desk, they found it, and won't say anything about it because ESPN got paid off by Kraft?


    I'm assuming the police have searched anywhere and everywhere in Hernandez' world that they deemed of interest at this point.
    Perhaps so ASG0531. On the other hand and given the capacity of some NFL players or even NFL team employees to do stupid things, sometimes really stupid things I would be checking exactly who he interacted with while he was at the team facility if I were the police. Perhaps another player in a misguided sense of player unity might have been stupid enough to agree to hide the gun for him. Sound far fetched? We are already way into the land of far fetched here so no, I would not say it was beyond the realm of possibility.

    As far as people looking to to use this stuff to embarrass the Patriots organization. Absolutely. I agree that there is some of that. But look, this is not as if all of this were some random meteorite which just happened to land on the poor folks in Foxboro out of the blue. It simply is not. This is pretty much all well deserved criticism from where I sit.

    The Patriots rolled the dice on this guy and they were perfectly happy to accrue the benefits and the admiration of folks for that gamble over the course of the three years when things were going well. "look how smart the Patriots were to draft this guy".... "They obviously knew more than the rest of us"... and so on and so forth. Well guess what? The shaming of the organization now that things have gone wrong is simply the flip side of the exact same risk/reward proposition that the Patriots accepted three years ago. The criticism that the Patriots are receiving now is all pretty lightweight stuff and if anything the media has given the Pats a pretty big pass on all of this. It is like the punishment for juicing in baseball. Players will continue to cheat if the rewards far outweigh the risks. The league as a whole needs to raise the bar on the risk side of the ledger and shaming the Pats is a small step in that direction.

    ...Oh and if we here at JI can collectively have a little fun at your expense then where is the harm in that?

  15. #3135
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    I assume the Pats have a 'fixer', like the guy the Giants had that Plax called. I assume every team has one. And while I doubt that guy would ever tell Hernandez to bring the gun in, I don't doubt that the idiot that thought smashing cell phones and video cameras would destroy the data they had recorded might think that he should do just that, to bring it to the fixer. So while I agree it's far-fetched, it's not impossible-fetched.

  16. #3136
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    Perhaps so ASG0531. On the other hand and given the capacity of some NFL players or even NFL team employees to do stupid things, sometimes really stupid things I would be checking exactly who he interacted with while he was at the team facility if I were the police. Perhaps another player in a misguided sense of player unity might have been stupid enough to agree to hide the gun for him. Sound far fetched? We are already way into the land of far fetched here so no, I would not say it was beyond the realm of possibility.

    As far as people looking to to use this stuff to embarrass the Patriots organization. Absolutely. I agree that there is some of that. But look, this is not as if all of this were some random meteorite which just happened to land on the poor folks in Foxboro out of the blue. It simply is not. This is pretty much all well deserved criticism from where I sit.

    The Patriots rolled the dice on this guy and they were perfectly happy to accrue the benefits and the admiration of folks for that gamble over the course of the three years when things were going well. "look how smart the Patriots were to draft this guy".... "They obviously knew more than the rest of us"... and so on and so forth. Well guess what? The shaming of the organization now that things have gone wrong is simply the flip side of the exact same risk/reward proposition that the Patriots accepted three years ago. The criticism that the Patriots are receiving now is all pretty lightweight stuff and if anything the media has given the Pats a pretty big pass on all of this. It is like the punishment for juicing in baseball. Players will continue to cheat if the rewards far outweigh the risks. The league as a whole needs to raise the bar on the risk side of the ledger and shaming the Pats is a small step in that direction.

    ...Oh and if we here at JI can collectively have a little fun at your expense then where is the harm in that?

    Here's an article on SI.com that at least attempts to begin the discussion of civil liabilities the Pats could face:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl...r_a1&eref=sihp

    I assume you'll completely dismiss the article because SI is just another Pats-biased media outlet and there are no discussions about criminal liability (which is what you are really hoping for), but at least a major news outlet has addressed some of the questions you are talking about.

  17. #3137
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    RT @AlbertBreer: One point on Hernandez, which I mentioned on TA: Evidence shown today was what prosecution needed to get AH charged. They likely have more.
    .

  18. #3138
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASG0531 View Post
    Here's an article on SI.com that at least attempts to begin the discussion of civil liabilities the Pats could face:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl...r_a1&eref=sihp

    I assume you'll completely dismiss the article because SI is just another Pats-biased media outlet and there are no discussions about criminal liability (which is what you are really hoping for), but at least a major news outlet has addressed some of the questions you are talking about.
    The article seems to be solid. Let's not project what I am hoping for or not hoping for here. All I have said and all I am continuing to say this that the Patriots appear to have continued this organizational tendency towards cutting corners that other teams are not prepared to cut and taking risks that other teams are not prepared to take. Spygate was one such instance, albeit a decade long one and this is yet another example it seems to me. At some point an observer is forced to conclude that the Patriots take these risks because that have never truly been called to account when those decisions go sideways. This whole act of throwing up their arms and bemoan their foul luck is getting a just a little old at this point.

    Kraft certainly plays the part of the squeaky clean high moral standards executive yet we see the at least somewhat scummy looking dalliance with a woman half his age and practically before his wife is cold in the ground. Normally not a cause to take particular note until you remember that the whole Myra Kraft illness and his sticking by her side was pushed into our faces relentlessly by the media. Kraft could have put a stop to that in ten seconds flat so you have to assume he liked that whole story arc and the light in which it presented his face to the world.

    We see his an organization under Kraft's stewardship that engaged in cheating for the better art of a decade and now we see this most recent episode where an extremely dubious character is embraced professionally by that same organization and to a great degree, embraced personally by Bob Kraft himself. Then there came the gangland execution style murder and at least the sniff of more murders in the past.

    There are several patterns here and a pretty bad stench. The Patriots taking risks because they derive tangible on-the-field benefits from the practice. The Patriots claiming whiter-than-white innocence, "how could such a thing ever happen to us?" when things do start to go wrong and the Patriots never really facing the prospect of a punishment that truly fits the the transgressions.

    In all honesty how does any of this not stick to the organization and why should anyone here be upset if your team's fan base is not having the best time of it right now?

    P.S. I pop in over at Patsfans.com from time to time and I have to say that the inconsistency over there is borderline astonishing at times. For example some of the very same posters who are now saying that moving forward the Patriots need to be more proactive and better informed about player behavior are the same ones who are saying things like how could we have known and what going on? or What else could we have done? I can see that is is possible to take one position or another but both of them simultaneously?

    My own personal suspicion and I have nothing to support this is that the Pats did indeed know some of the bad stuff about Aaron Hernandez. No, not the murder but probably some things about the guns and the gangs. I think they knew about this because I believe that they do indeed have better intel than anyone else. I also believe that they knew this because they we the one team out of 32 that had the financial motivation to go find out once he was already a Patriot. I think they simply did not know what to do with that worrying information once they had it in their possession. This theory is consistent with the Patriots being better informed than anyone else and a franchise that is willing to continue to roll the dice in a tight spot.
    Last edited by EM31; 07-10-2013 at 08:34 AM.

  19. #3139
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    The article seems to be solid. Let's not project what I am hoping for or not hoping for here. All I have said and all I am continuing to say this that the Patriots appear to have continued this organizational tendency towards cutting corners that other teams are not prepared to cut and taking risks that other teams are not prepared to take. Spygate was one such instance, albeit a decade long one and this is yet another example it seems to me. At some point an observer is forced to conclude that the Patriots take these risks because that have never truly been called to account when those decisions go sideways. This whole act of throwing up their arms and bemoan their foul luck is getting a just a little old at this point.

    Kraft certainly plays the part of the squeaky clean high moral standards executive yet we see the at least somewhat scummy looking dalliance with a woman half his age and practically before his wife is cold in the ground. Normally not a cause to take particular note until you remember that the whole Myra Kraft illness and his sticking by her side was pushed into our faces relentlessly by the media. Kraft could have put a stop to that in ten seconds flat so you have to assume he liked that whole story arc and the light in which it presented his face to the world.

    We see his an organization under Kraft's stewardship that engaged in cheating for the better art of a decade and now we see this most recent episode where an extremely dubious character is embraced professionally by that same organization and to a great degree, embraced personally by Bob Kraft himself. Then there came the gangland execution style murder and at least the sniff of more murders in the past.

    There are several patterns here and a pretty bad stench. The Patriots taking risks because they derive tangible on-the-field benefits from the practice. The Patriots claiming whiter-than-white innocence, "how could such a thing ever happen to us?" when things do start to go wrong and the Patriots never really facing the prospect of a punishment that truly fits the the transgressions.

    In all honesty how does any of this not stick to the organization and why should anyone here be upset if your team's fan base is not having the best time of it right now?

    P.S. I pop in over at Patsfans.com from time to time and I have to say that the inconsistency over there is borderline astonishing at times. For example some of the very same posters who are now saying that moving forward the Patriots need to be more proactive and better informed about player behavior are the same ones who are saying things like how could we have known and what going on? or What else could we have done? I can see that is is possible to take one position or another but both of them simultaneously?

    My own personal suspicion and I have nothing to support this is that the Pats did indeed know some of the bad stuff about Aaron Hernandez. No, not the murder but probably some things about the guns and the gangs. I think they knew about this because I believe that they do indeed have better intel than anyone else. I also believe that they knew this because they we the one team out of 32 that had the financial motivation to go find out once he was already a Patriot. I think they simply did not know what to do with that worrying information once they had it in their possession. This theory is consistent with the Patriots being better informed than anyone else and a franchise that is willing to continue to roll the dice in a tight spot.
    Great post.

    Kraft's private sitdown with three Pats-friendly reporters - against the advice of counsel - was pretty self-serving. He feels duped? He could only feel duped if this was a Rae Carruth situation where the player has NO red flags in college and then he does something unthinkable.

    What happened here is that the Pats decided that character mattered less than wanting to win. All the signs were there that Hernandez was a bad guy. So that's not being duped. That's making a choice.

    That choice helped kill Lloyd and maybe others.

    Something else. On Outside the Lines Herm Edwards observed that SOMEONE in the locker room REALLY knew what kind of guy AH was. Maybe it was an equipment guy. Maybe a player. Maybe a trainer. Someone knew, but that person was apparently never asked. Why?

    Herm didn't have the balls to answer, but I will. It's because Hernandez was a good player and the Pats didn't care that he had thug tendencies (hung out with his old gang friends, didn't go to player events).

    Oh and one of the panelists suggested that when a player commits this kind of crime, the team should be penalized the draft choice they used to get him, so the Pats* would lose their 4th Rd. pick in a future draft.
    Last edited by TheBlairThomasFumble; 07-10-2013 at 10:11 AM.

  20. #3140
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASG0531 View Post
    Um, just about anywhere between the time he shot the guy and a helicopter was tracking his every move out of the house?

    They already searched his locker. There's footage of him leaving his car to walk into the stadium. You think Hernandez waited until the world was watching him leave his house in broad daylight to drive all the way to Gillette to carry a gun in his underwear to stash under BB's desk? You find this plausible?

    Go call 911 immediately because apparently you've got some inside info the cops don't.
    Why wouldn't this be plausible? If he had the gun in the house, he couldn't easily ditch it with media camped out in front of his house 24-7.

    So he makes up this BS story about wanting to "work out" at the stadium. His house has a home gym, so why make this drive?

    Because he knew he could hide the gun inside the one building where the media couldn't follow him into. Anywhere else he went, reporters were going to be all over him.

    BTW, I find it amazing that you find this theory implausible after your team's star tight end has turned out to be a drug using murderer who's such a sociopath that he can kill a guy and then casually offer a rental car agency worker a piece of bubble gum while getting out of a car used to commit the crime.
    Last edited by TheBlairThomasFumble; 07-10-2013 at 10:29 AM.

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