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Thread: PSL/Club Seat Default Letter

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    We'll never know for sure, but I'm with Jay on this one. I really don't think a train is an impediment to football. I was in Chicago on game day once and a huge number of Bears fans came via the train. Plus every geographical sector of fan would have relatively easy access - you wouldn't have a "shunned" group like with the move to NJ.

    Hardly empirical evidence, but my father - a lifelong Giant STH and someone who had no love t all for the Jets, was excited about NYC football and would have considered getting tix for a WSS Jet team....

    For every Joiseyite that dropped out, there would be 4x ppl waiting to take the seat. And sponsor money would be very much available.
    I used to be a big tailgater where we'd hang out for 4+ hours, bring tons of stuff, do a post game, etc. So I was initially put off by the prospect of the WSS and the possibility of not tailgating. But I eventually came around to the idea. Would have been a hoot to get into NYC early on a Sunday morning and pregame at a bar or something with a bunch of other lunatic jets fans.

    Also we could have made condescending remarks to giants fans for the next 30 years about being the only real ny football team (and I say this as a happy nj resident)

  2. #102
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    It was one and done for the train to MetLife for me. It was like a cattle car in and out. And if you are not out of the gate by the middle of the 4th quarter, the wait to get into the train is forever. And it's not that cheap either, whether you pay to park in Secaucus or take another Jersey train to get to Secaucus. Can see why it would work if you come from NYC (no tolls - no payment for parking) but if you live in Jersey you are much better off driving and parking in the lot.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flushing Roots View Post
    It was one and done for the train to MetLife for me. It was like a cattle car in and out. And if you are not out of the gate by the middle of the 4th quarter, the wait to get into the train is forever. And it's not that cheap either, whether you pay to park in Secaucus or take another Jersey train to get to Secaucus. Can see why it would work if you come from NYC (no tolls - no payment for parking) but if you live in Jersey you are much better off driving and parking in the lot.
    The train is conceptually appealing to me on some occasions. You can throw back a few without any worry of driving, for example.

    Getting there for me isn't bad. You can time the drive or walk to the train station pretty precisely, then switching at secaucus isn't that bad. Door to door you can get there in a little more than an hour, I think.

    But the problem for me is getting out. As you note unless you leave early it can get packed. Also for me trains only go my way from secaucus hourly. Was it 20 mins after the hour? So you always miss the 4:20 and have to take the 5:20 (or was it 5:40?). So door to door getting home it's like 2 hours. Driving with no traffic is 30 minutes, or after the game probably more like an hour all things considered. So it's like twice as long so I almost always drive

  4. #104
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    Good research

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkrotraz View Post
    It is so bad, that a scalper always had the seats in section 144 row 1, seats 1-13, 143 Row 2 seats 11,12,10,9 and 144 Row 2 seats 1-13 and he owned like 25 in a row straight across row 3 section 144/143 and at least 15 in row 4I always see them advertised on ebay, stub hub, nfl ticket exchange you name it. Even on opposing teams fan sites for away game deals. Always big blocks of other players teams there. Basically 50 opposing fans could sit together in first four rows. Think about it, a professional scalper, strategiically picked the lowest rows available, best ticket price on sideline and the lowest cost psls and did it on visitiors side so if Jets stink he has a new crowd every week. Opening day of stadium like 50 Ravens fans in seats they all paid triple face. Talked to oen Raven fan and they said all 50 came on a bus together and I guess scalper planed it to have a bus load of tickets on visitors side low row together, won PSL gold of the SAR variety. Then it became double face and now it is spiraling towards face with PSL fee he is losing money ever game . Guy now has every PSL for sale all over the place

    Every PSL except his 13 in row one section 144 is for sale at a loss. He already sold several at a loss. So I figure guy is deperate. So one day I see he has it on ebay with his email so I figure what the heck I will contact him and low ball him.

    Turns out he is only selling PSLs given his payments to date he is above water or less than $500 underwater. Tells me he will eat a bit of loss not to piss off Jets too much. Then tells me to my shock he not only has the 144/143 corner but has a whole bunch by where Jets come out and a few other LGL/LSL. All together he has 250 PSLs. Then for fun I say if you are walking away how about I give you $500 bucks. He goes I got them in a few LLCs, only the really good ones like 144 row one are in my primary LLC. He then says he is walking away from everything row three and up. But he is working with Jets to see if they will let him transfer balance to new people and he is willing to eat transfer fee or pay for season tickets while they find a new buyer. Jets cant get the money off him on all the seats.

    This was a two or three mail email thing a few months ago. It was shocking to me on several levels. First when Jets were assigning seats a scalper was able to grab 250 really good seats at once, screwing long term ticket holders. Newbie PSL salesmen looking for commission let scalpers buy blocks of PSLs in various phoney LLCs so they can sell them for a profit if thing work out or bail when they didn't Also think this led to the huge amount of PSLs flooding market.

    Jets may need to do what one team did with a failed PSL strategy. Basically wait till maybe year six after all five years are paid off and suspend all PSL sales and cancel remaining balances. Then do a massive PSL seat reallocation. Let folks with no balances pick first and let folks add up to double their seats. Then sell remaining bad PSL seats as season tickets with no PSL fees.

    Jets problem was compounded unlike Giants, by allowing zero down financing with long terms 15 years in a depreciating asset combined with allowing speculators and flippers buying on leverage without credit checks they created their own version of subprime loans.

    In retrospect. Jets should have only sold mainly to season ticket holders, did it with only 1-5 year terms at low interest rates and offered on the remaining PSLs, scalper cash only deals for the inferior seasts. And not got so greedy with stuff like Great Hall Club which Giants did not even try to do.

    Even more amazing Jets had a pretty good team in Fall 2009,2010 and 2011, a recovering economy and a bull market in stocks and still this fell apart.
    Thank you for sharing. The Jets should hire you as a PSL consultant. If they do please tell us.

  5. #105
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    It's all about the prices and product on the field. Right now, the Jets have the worst combination of the two so naturally, people are bailing out. Why is anyone surprised? If the team gets better and becomes competitive and entertaining (on the field, not off the field) then it turns around. It's that simple.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    It's all about the prices and product on the field. Right now, the Jets have the worst combination of the two so naturally, people are bailing out. Why is anyone surprised? If the team gets better and becomes competitive and entertaining (on the field, not off the field) then it turns around. It's that simple.
    We have fair weather fans. When Giants stunk many years ago fans did not bail on season tickets.

    Jets are lumped into Nets, Mets, Islanders fair weather fans. Ranger, Knicks, Yankees and Giant fans stuck around.

    Rangers and Kicks I think won a combined champtionship twice in last 30 years yet they stick around.

  7. #107
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    A few comments about the last few posts.

    . It seems like the hardcore tailgaiters who live in NJ are the strongest proponents of the Jets being in MetLife. For those for whom the game is the primary not the secondary attraction - not so much.
    . About Jet fans being fair weather fans. How can you say that? We haven't had a championship in 44 years and sucked for most of them. I mean the Kotite years? Didn't we sell out and add to our waiting list? Of course there is more excitement about a winning team and tickets are easier to sell but there are a lot of hard core Jet fans through thick and thin. IMO it's obvious that that Woody has lost this hardcore base as STHers with the clusterf'ck in the swamps.
    . I think the reason the Giants do not have the same problems as the Jets in MetLife is that the Giants know where their base is. Even if they did not win the 2 recent Super Bowls I don't think you would see Giant PSL's tanking like Jet ones have
    . The train to MetLife cannot be considered mass transit. To say that MetLife is reachable by mass transit just like Citi or Yankee Stadium is absurd. The train is just another part of the clusterf'ck. Is totally useless for any fan from LI to use on a regular basis and according to those posting from NJ the same holds true.
    . It seems like the Jets are stuck with many scalpers plying their trade and the Jets despite their denials are dumping single game tickets on the secondary market
    . No doubt there are people happy with their PSL's but those are few and far between. The secondary market for them has tanked making walking away from them a more attractive option for many creating major headaches for the Jets.
    . There are not many attractive options for the Jets at this point with what they can do.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkrotraz View Post
    We have fair weather fans. When Giants stunk many years ago fans did not bail on season tickets.

    Jets are lumped into Nets, Mets, Islanders fair weather fans. Ranger, Knicks, Yankees and Giant fans stuck around.

    Rangers and Kicks I think won a combined champtionship twice in last 30 years yet they stick around.
    really, I remember hordes of Giants fans burning their tickets in front of the stadium. True fan stick around. No need to paint it as all black or white as you do.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkrotraz View Post
    We have fair weather fans. When Giants stunk many years ago fans did not bail on season tickets.

    Jets are lumped into Nets, Mets, Islanders fair weather fans. Ranger, Knicks, Yankees and Giant fans stuck around.

    Rangers and Kicks I think won a combined champtionship twice in last 30 years yet they stick around.
    Such BS. Every fan base fades in bad years.... The Knicks did not sell out MSG during the 8 years before Amare was signed. Yankee Stadium was a ghost town in the 1980s and early 90s - and the teams were mostly not terrible. Weeknight games would average 20k during the Mattingly era.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traitor Jay & the Woodies View Post
    Such BS. Every fan base fades in bad years.... The Knicks did not sell out MSG during the 8 years before Amare was signed. Yankee Stadium was a ghost town in the 1980s and early 90s - and the teams were mostly not terrible. Weeknight games would average 20k during the Mattingly era.

    If Jets were in Manhattan maybe we would have people attending the Monday Night games.


    Change at work, go to a steakhouse by Penn station stuff myself on someones expense account, walk over to game and arrive 15 minutes to kick-off, get some more expense account beers then catch train straight home. Would be heaven.

    Instead Sunday night and Monday night games are living hell. Driving to a one pm or 4pm game is fine. Driving to a night game is a nightmare. And NJ Transist is terrible at night and even worse on a Sunday night when they run an off peak weekend schedule after game

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    It's all about the prices and product on the field. Right now, the Jets have the worst combination of the two so naturally, people are bailing out. Why is anyone surprised? If the team gets better and becomes competitive and entertaining (on the field, not off the field) then it turns around. It's that simple.
    But there's escalators, no?

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkrotraz View Post
    If Jets were in Manhattan maybe we would have people attending the Monday Night games.


    Change at work, go to a steakhouse by Penn station stuff myself on someones expense account, walk over to game and arrive 15 minutes to kick-off, get some more expense account beers then catch train straight home. Would be heaven.

    Instead Sunday night and Monday night games are living hell. Driving to a one pm or 4pm game is fine. Driving to a night game is a nightmare. And NJ Transist is terrible at night and even worse on a Sunday night when they run an off peak weekend schedule after game
    Definitely during good times those would be very hot tickets, but those would be primarily occasional (at best) attendees, and those games would be empty as well in seasons like last season.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2® View Post
    But there's escalators, no?
    I'm pondering the physics of an obese Pats fan hypothetically "falling" "by accident" down the steepest one that goes from the upper tier to level 2 right now

    Would they have life threatening injuries, or would their blubbery chub and filled beyond capacity food trays cushion the impact(s)?

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queens Jet Fan View Post
    A few comments about the last few posts.

    . It seems like the hardcore tailgaiters who live in NJ are the strongest proponents of the Jets being in MetLife. For those for whom the game is the primary not the secondary attraction - not so much.
    . About Jet fans being fair weather fans. How can you say that? We haven't had a championship in 44 years and sucked for most of them. I mean the Kotite years? Didn't we sell out and add to our waiting list? Of course there is more excitement about a winning team and tickets are easier to sell but there are a lot of hard core Jet fans through thick and thin. IMO it's obvious that that Woody has lost this hardcore base as STHers with the clusterf'ck in the swamps.
    . I think the reason the Giants do not have the same problems as the Jets in MetLife is that the Giants know where their base is. Even if they did not win the 2 recent Super Bowls I don't think you would see Giant PSL's tanking like Jet ones have
    . The train to MetLife cannot be considered mass transit. To say that MetLife is reachable by mass transit just like Citi or Yankee Stadium is absurd. The train is just another part of the clusterf'ck. Is totally useless for any fan from LI to use on a regular basis and according to those posting from NJ the same holds true.
    . It seems like the Jets are stuck with many scalpers plying their trade and the Jets despite their denials are dumping single game tickets on the secondary market
    . No doubt there are people happy with their PSL's but those are few and far between. The secondary market for them has tanked making walking away from them a more attractive option for many creating major headaches for the Jets.
    . There are not many attractive options for the Jets at this point with what they can do.
    Your first comment is a very SAResque arrogant typical Long Island bitter comment. You don't know me or how I feel about the game. I go for the game but tailgating adds to it. To be able to spend the day with my friends and family in the parking lot and then sit with my family in the stadium is great. I enjoy watching the Jets and before leg surgery last year made it to 105 straight games.

    If we played in Long Island I probably would keep them but NYC forget it. Football is meant to have tailgating before the game.

    Not only that the price to NYC would be a ripoff. I think we can both agree the game ticket price would be the same in either stadium. The ripoff is everything else. Currently I pay $25 to park and pay $50 give or take on food/beer for tailgating (I get a lot of that money back from people) but I will assume I don't. $25 to park plus $50 for food/beer = $75 Add in under $5 in tolls and it's $80 for the day.

    If I do the train it's $20 round trip times 3 people is $60 plus $5 to park at the train station we are at $65. If you do a NYC stadium you are paying through the nose for food, beer etc before a game or during a game. Easily $100 for 3 people so $165 for a yuppy NYC experience plus game ticket prices or $80 for a real man's football experience.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jets337 View Post
    Your first comment is a very SAResque arrogant typical Long Island bitter comment. You don't know me or how I feel about the game. I go for the game but tailgating adds to it. To be able to spend the day with my friends and family in the parking lot and then sit with my family in the stadium is great. I enjoy watching the Jets and before leg surgery last year made it to 105 straight games.

    If we played in Long Island I probably would keep them but NYC forget it. Football is meant to have tailgating before the game.
    If SAR was here he would be highly insulted to be lumped in with Long Islanders. Listen, I like to tailgate also. It was a way for me to beat the traffic and spend some quality time with my son and friends - not so much to drink and stuff my face. Your complaints about tailgating in NYC when I mentioned the red cups just showed me that tailgating is much more impt to you - and to Cornfed - then it was to me. That's all. Your inference, stated here also, is that without it you wouldn't go. That sort of says it all.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queens Jet Fan View Post
    If SAR was here he would be highly insulted to be lumped in with Long Islanders. Listen, I like to tailgate also. It was a way for me to beat the traffic and spend some quality time with my son and friends - not so much to drink and stuff my face. Your complaints about tailgating in NYC when I mentioned the red cups just showed me that tailgating is much more impt to you - and to Cornfed - then it was to me. That's all. Your inference, stated here also, is that without it you wouldn't go. That sort of says it all.
    SAR is from Huntington IIRC.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queens Jet Fan View Post
    If SAR was here he would be highly insulted to be lumped in with Long Islanders. Listen, I like to tailgate also. It was a way for me to beat the traffic and spend some quality time with my son and friends - not so much to drink and stuff my face. Your complaints about tailgating in NYC when I mentioned the red cups just showed me that tailgating is much more impt to you - and to Cornfed - then it was to me. That's all. Your inference, stated here also, is that without it you wouldn't go. That sort of says it all.
    Hey, man. Careful about projecting your thoughts on me. I used to have big tailgates, but now go with 1 other person most games and usually grill and have a couple beers for like 60-90 mins. I've said before - I was ready to adapt to tailgating or whatever if the NYC stadium came to be

    So I strongly disagree with your assertion that the only people who like MetLife are big tailgaters. In the morning it takes me 30 minutes to get there. NYC would take longer. Queens or whereever would suck.

    I like the new place since I have amazing seats, there are no pee lines, and there are better beer options (which I use) and food options (which I never use).


    I think price is the hugest reason by a lot why ppl don't like the new place. I've been lucky enough to grab my seats without really worrying whether I was losing money. Not being sar-douchy....I bought within my means, is all I'm saying

    Regarding queens, the thing that surprises me....and I swear to god I'm not saying this only since you called me out....is who cares? That was 30 years ago. Lots has changed. And as I said above - if the jets were at the wss we could make fun of giants fans since NYC>>ny

    But isn't queens<<nj? Or at least the decent parts? I've driven through some real ****holes in queens which don't exist in, for instance millburn,
    Last edited by Cornfed; 06-26-2013 at 12:49 AM.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfed View Post
    Hey, man. Careful about projecting your thoughts on me. I used to have big tailgates, but now go with 1 other person most games and usually grill and have a couple beers for like 60-90 mins. I've said before - I was ready to adapt to tailgating or whatever if the NYC stadium came to be

    So I strongly disagree with your assertion that the only people who like MetLife are big tailgaters. In the morning it takes me 30 minutes to get there. NYC would take longer. Queens or whereever would suck.

    I like the new place since I have amazing seats, there are no pee lines, and there are better beer options (which I use) and food options (which I never use).


    I think price is the hugest reason by a lot why ppl don't like the new place. I've been lucky enough to grab my seats without really worrying whether I was losing money. Not being sar-douchy....I bought within my means, is all I'm saying

    Regarding queens, the thing that surprises me....and I swear to god I'm not saying this only since you called me out....is who cares? That was 30 years ago. Lots has changed. And as I said above - if the jets were at the wss we could make fun of giants fans since NYC>>ny

    But isn't queens<<nj? Or at least the decent parts? I've driven through some real ****holes in queens which don't exist in, for instance millburn,
    Saying a team existing in NYC is somehow superior to an nj team makes sense. But queens? Doesn't nj....at least the good parts....look down on Li?

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    SAR is from Huntington IIRC.
    Yes and he has consistently denigrated it since he left.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfed View Post
    Hey, man. Careful about projecting your thoughts on me.
    My! Somebody is very sensitive today. Did you read what I wrote? All I said was that tailgating was more impt to you and 337 then it was to me. Is that not true? I wasn't calling you out. I was just pointing out that "in this thread" the people who were more pro MetLife were more pro tailgating and 337 mentioned that as a reason for preferring Jersey over NY.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfed View Post
    Saying a team existing in NYC is somehow superior to an nj team makes sense. But queens? Doesn't nj....at least the good parts....look down on Li?
    Again did you read my post? Where did I say that? All Jay and I said was that there are more Jet fans there. Seems like the Jersey people here have a lot of NY envy going on.
    Last edited by Queens Jet Fan; 06-26-2013 at 08:28 AM.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queens Jet Fan View Post
    Yes and he has consistently denigrated it since he left.
    link? I have been reading his stuff since usenet days in the mid 1990's. I don't recall a single put-down of Huntington or any other part of Nassau or Suffolk counties. Please corroborate your opinion.


    Seems like the Jersey people here have a lot of NY envy going on.
    yeah right. I grew up in Queens, have lived in Manhattan, Nassau and Suffolk counties and now NJ. Frankly, living here is better in every respect. Economically, socially, educationally for kids, you name it.... Easy commute to the city for events (compared to commuting in from Long Island, which is the area's worst commute). JMO.

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