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Thread: How Does QB Competition Make Sense

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    That is why you don't expose Smith until AFTER Sanchize fails. If you bring him in after a failure by Sanchize, there are reasonable expectations.

    If you throw him out there week 1 and he fails, the questions about Smith will start.
    I don't think that's correct at all.. He's a rookie, expectations for rookies or even 2 yr qbs aren't high.. We already seen the Stink of the alternative.. It's not like he would be in his 4th or 5th yr like you know who and still stinking up the joint

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysd View Post
    I think the odds of Rex coaching the Jets next season are almost zero. Idzik gets his guy season 2. It would take a division title and deep playoff run to save Rex's job. Rather than an extension I see no guarantee he lasts the season. MM could easily become interim head coach if we falter out of the gate.
    I completely disagree. Not only does Woody think Rex is a very good HC, but Idzik very much believes the same. If Rex even keeps this team close to a .500 record, he gets an extension. I guess we'll have to see this year. I'll remember this conversation though, and I'll be asking you to eat crow after Rex gets his extension.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    I completely disagree. Not only does Woody think Rex is a very good HC, but Idzik very much believes the same. If Rex even keeps this team close to a .500 record, he gets an extension. I guess we'll have to see this year. I'll remember this conversation though, and I'll be asking you to eat crow after Rex gets his extension.
    Woody was financially beholden to Rex this year. I do agree that Woody really likes Rex but Woody will not keep Rex over Idzik after this year. Idzik is obviously going to say he is a big supporter of Rex until a few minutes before they schedule the press conference to fire him. In my view he deserves to be fired. He is not a good head coach.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysd View Post
    Woody was financially beholden to Rex this year. I do agree that Woody really likes Rex but Woody will not keep Rex over Idzik after this year. Idzik is obviously going to say he is a big supporter of Rex until a few minutes before they schedule the press conference to fire him. In my view he deserves to be fired. He is not a good head coach.
    So really what you are saying is that John Idzik lied to Woody and said that he likes Rex Ryan just to get the GM job, when in fact he thinks he sucks and wanted him sh*t canned yesterday?

    I just don't see that is a logical thought process. John Idzik was a good candidate to be a GM, he didn't need to lie to someone to get a job. Even if he didn't get the Jets GM job, he would have gotten a GM job eventually anyway.

    And why would he take any chance at his future success sticking with a guy that he truly did not believe in? That does not make any sense to me.

    I believe that John Idzik DOES in fact believe Rex Ryan is a great HC, or else he would have waited for another GM opportunity to come along. And he certainly would not have so boldly proclaimed his admiration of Rex in his original press conference after being hired.
    Last edited by Mainejet; 06-30-2013 at 06:17 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleansweep2013 View Post
    I don't think that's correct at all.. He's a rookie, expectations for rookies or even 2 yr qbs aren't high.. We already seen the Stink of the alternative.. It's not like he would be in his 4th or 5th yr like you know who and still stinking up the joint
    When you throw a rookie out there without a good supporting cast, you risk damaging the Rookie's career. There are plenty of guys that started before they (and/or the team) were ready. Some of them weren't harmed (Aikman), but some of them were (Carr).

    Simple, safe plan: start Sanchize until he "fails" or Smith "wins" the job completely with great play.

    Simply starting Smith because we hate seeing Sanchize isn't the smart move.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    When you throw a rookie out there without a good supporting cast, you risk damaging the Rookie's career. There are plenty of guys that started before they (and/or the team) were ready. Some of them weren't harmed (Aikman), but some of them were (Carr).

    Simple, safe plan: start Sanchize until he "fails" or Smith "wins" the job completely with great play.

    Simply starting Smith because we hate seeing Sanchize isn't the smart move.
    Hate? It isnt hate. You dont start him because you already know you get out of him. How can you start a QB that 99% of the fans DONT want to see because he cant win for you? It would be insanity to start him. If the people PAYING to see the games dont want to see him, there is no reason to play him. If Geno struggle throw Sanchez in not the other way around. Like SF did with Hill the year the fans didnt want Smith. Hill played better but yet they still went back to Smith anyway because that was who they where invested in. The biggest difference here is Geno has the higher up side and we really are not invested in Sanchez. Geno is flat out a better QB in every aspect of the game.

  7. #67
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    GENO

    7

    TIME

    NOW

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    Hate? It isnt hate. You dont start him because you already know you get out of him. How can you start a QB that 99% of the fans DONT want to see because he cant win for you? It would be insanity to start him. If the people PAYING to see the games dont want to see him, there is no reason to play him. If Geno struggle throw Sanchez in not the other way around. Like SF did with Hill the year the fans didnt want Smith. Hill played better but yet they still went back to Smith anyway because that was who they where invested in. The biggest difference here is Geno has the higher up side and we really are not invested in Sanchez. Geno is flat out a better QB in every aspect of the game.
    If you start or don't start someone because of what the fans want or don't want. You have already lost. Good franchises make smart decisions for the long run regardless of what the fans want.

    This offense is going to be bad (no weapons). The smart thing to do is let Sanchize take the fall for it. He is the sacrificial lamb.

    I am excited about Smith, but the idea that he is already "a better QB in every aspect of the game" is delusional. He is a project QB with great upside. He is not Andrew Luck. Because the Jets have invested in Smith, it is important to protect that investment.

  9. #69
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    the smart decision is to play your best players at each position. Smith is the best quarterback on the Jets although being better than Buttfumble is something that at least 35 other quarterbacks were in 2012

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    The reason Sanchez is still on the roster is due to contract/cap issues and because the current GM smartly sees every player as a potential asset.

    It's folly to just hand a job to any new QB and it's easier said than done to bring in extra comp. The Jets tried to bring in another true challenger in Garrard.


    "Smartly sees every player as a potential asset."

    Exactly. What can we get for him now, what can he do for us now, and is it time to call the investment a total loss and is declaring this loss the most prudent BUSINESS decision now?

    Idzik feels that its not time to declare the investment a loss. Money has already been sacrificed. Keeping him and allowing him the chance to succeed wont cost any further expenditure of cash reserves. Starting him or sitting him is NOT Idziks call. Idziks call is whether its a prudent business move to get rid of the potential asset.

    Clearly he feels that its unwise to do that now.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    the smart decision is to play your best players at each position. Smith is the best quarterback on the Jets although being better than Buttfumble is something that at least 35 other quarterbacks were in 2012
    Fully agree with the first statement. But I'm sure you can understand that not everyone is 100% sold on Geno being the best QB on the roster right now.

    The way I see it, if he can't beat out one of the worst QBs in the league, then maybe he's not quite ready to start. To steal from Denny Green, if you want to crown him, go ahead, but I'd rather see it in action first.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysd View Post
    I am all for competition in professional football. I think it makes players work harder and play better. Stay in shape, study. All of that I get it.

    But to me it does not always make sense as in the case of the Jets QB position.

    I have a hard time wrapping my head around why Sanchez is included in the QB competition. To me it sends the message that what he accomplishes in practice and pre-season games overrides the four years of history he has at the position. We don't need a competition to know what Sanchez is and what that is is not good enough.

    Now I think that Geno should compete to start. I do not think he should be handed the starting position. But Simms and McElroy are token competition at best, and Sanchez should not even have the chance.

    What the Jets should have done is cut Sanchez as a June 1 cut, and brought in some players that could actually compete with Geno.

    But to trot Sanchez out there again because he wins a pre-season "competition" with a rookie (who is more talented than he is), just seems like a completely idiotic move and destined to be a complete failure. Not to mention the backlash from the fans if they do that. Plus I have no confidence Rex will get past his bias in determining the starter.
    Sanchez is better than the alternative options. He's played well at times (basically he was an average QB from the start of his 2nd season until Game 13 of the 3rd season). If the Jets cut him, they would be handing the job to Geno Smith, someone who may not be ready (if he was ready, he would have been a first round pick). I get the Sanchez bias, but the best option would be Sanchez and Smith to both play well, but if Sanchez plays well enough to win the, I don't see the harm.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenWave View Post
    Fully agree with the first statement. But I'm sure you can understand that not everyone is 100% sold on Geno being the best QB on the roster right now.

    The way I see it, if he can't beat out one of the worst QBs in the league, then maybe he's not quite ready to start. To steal from Denny Green, if you want to crown him, go ahead, but I'd rather see it in action first.
    the good thing for the Jets future is that it doesn't matter at all whether I am sold on Smith or you are sold on Smith or not everyone is 100 percent sold on Smith. What matters is the the GM that drafted him high in the draft as HIS quarterback has probably seen enough film of Buttfumble the last two seasons to be sold on Smith

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    If you start or don't start someone because of what the fans want or don't want. You have already lost. Good franchises make smart decisions for the long run regardless of what the fans want.

    This offense is going to be bad (no weapons). The smart thing to do is let Sanchize take the fall for it. He is the sacrificial lamb.

    I am excited about Smith, but the idea that he is already "a better QB in every aspect of the game" is delusional. He is a project QB with great upside. He is not Andrew Luck. Because the Jets have invested in Smith, it is important to protect that investment.
    Stopped reading there. People saying this team has no weapons have no clue IMO. As for not listening to the fans well that is kinda who buys the tickets. Good franchises sell tickets and dont start QBs even the fans know are trash. Your duty is to the fans and to win games. You dont do that doing the same stupid thing over and over again that is insanity.
    Last edited by Dreamers; 07-01-2013 at 03:36 PM.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    So really what you are saying is that John Idzik lied to Woody and said that he likes Rex Ryan just to get the GM job, when in fact he thinks he sucks and wanted him sh*t canned yesterday?

    I just don't see that is a logical thought process. John Idzik was a good candidate to be a GM, he didn't need to lie to someone to get a job. Even if he didn't get the Jets GM job, he would have gotten a GM job eventually anyway.

    And why would he take any chance at his future success sticking with a guy that he truly did not believe in? That does not make any sense to me.

    I believe that John Idzik DOES in fact believe Rex Ryan is a great HC, or else he would have waited for another GM opportunity to come along. And he certainly would not have so boldly proclaimed his admiration of Rex in his original press conference after being hired.
    LOL... Go back and look at the history of new GMs with lame duck head coaches. They all said they loved the head coach and pretty much all of them fired the head coach after a year. It happened just this year in Chicago. It happens all the time.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batmans A Scientist View Post
    Sanchez is better than the alternative options. He's played well at times (basically he was an average QB from the start of his 2nd season until Game 13 of the 3rd season). If the Jets cut him, they would be handing the job to Geno Smith, someone who may not be ready (if he was ready, he would have been a first round pick). I get the Sanchez bias, but the best option would be Sanchez and Smith to both play well, but if Sanchez plays well enough to win the, I don't see the harm.
    The times Sanchez played well are a distant memory and even then he played more competent than well. He has been the worst starting QB over the last 2 years. Any alternative option is better than Buttfumble.

  17. #77
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    Had plenty of weapons the last two years, unfortunately surrounded by the worst QB in the NFL.

    Fortunately a change for the better is happening in 2013

  18. #78
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    Every player on the jets or any team needs to know that the guys who play the best in TC win the position to start the season. If starters think that practice performance has little bearing on who starts, or if rookies think that their draft position give them a seat at the table your asking for trouble. ( i make exception to the over 30YO stars that take it easy during camp with the coaches blessing)

    If the competition is close the Rex can give the ball to the kid, but if it is not close the message the team gets is that the season does not matter. if Sanchez or any player wins the position in TC it is his to lose during the season.
    Last edited by patman; 07-01-2013 at 04:46 PM.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    Every player on the jets or any team needs to know that the guys who play the best in TC win the position to start the season. If starters think that practice performance has little bearing on who starts, or if rookies think that their draft position give them a seat at the table your asking for trouble. ( i make exception to the over 30YO stars that take it easy during camp with the coaches blessing)

    If the competition is close the Rex can give the ball to the kid, but if it is not close the message the team gets is that the season does not matter. if Sanchez or any player wins the position in TC it is his to lose during the season.
    QB is completely different than other positions. QB competitions make little sense to me as they rob the starting QB of reps. Pick and QB and go with him until he proves he cannot handle it (like Sanchez) and then go with your next option 100%

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    Had plenty of weapons the last two years, unfortunately surrounded by the worst QB in the NFL.

    Fortunately a change for the better is happening in 2013
    Right. That receiving corps last year was all pro. Green McNight and Powell were all world.

    Please comment when you sober up or join the real world. Sanchize was bad, but he fit right in with the spares surrounding him.

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