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Thread: Stop blaming the 2012 O line

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    NO the Jets oline gave up 48 sacks throwing the football the sixth less time in the NFl. They were the 28th rank offense in the NFl. They replaced two /fifths of the oline (if Oline was that good would that have happened or would the Oline coach had been replaced).

    Anyone who actually believes the Jets had the third ranked oline than you will probably believe just about anything. What next Sanchez is better than Joe Flacco and Eli Manning.
    See my last post. They were a very good run blocking line. Also if you are asserting that Sanchez is so bad, that would explain the increased sacks. Guy held onto the ball forever. Also a huge bunch of sacks came in an outlier game when our third string QB decided he would hold onto the ball forever. Quit trolling, you could really use a ban at this point cause you are adding nothing to the conversation these days.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by billygreen View Post
    The fact that the Jets were 26th in average yards per rush had an impact on this also. If the line played so good why was the rushing so bad? Part of that was on the RB's but part of that was on the line too.

    You had lots of bad things going on last year. A change of OC, the loss of Holmes and no real threat at WR, only so-so line play, a skittish quarterback afraid of being hurt. All these factors and more added up to a 6-10 season.


    You could argue that not a whole lot has been done to address these problems in the offseason either. We still don't have solid WR's, the RB's we picked up haven't been fulltime starters anywhere, we're not sure how our line is going to pan out just yet, our FB still can't block, and our TE's are who?

    If things go just right we might be competitive. If things go wrong we'll be one of the worst teams in the NFL. The line is part of that.
    Shonn Greene.


    Look at the adjusted line yards compared to the RB yards. Us and the Patriots left more yards on the field last year than any other team's.

    And if you want to know which teams have the most explosive running backs, just look at the last column on the right "Open Field Yards." We finished dead last.


  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMo View Post
    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

    Check this out.

    Power success/rank and stuff percentage/rank are the most indicative of the OL's run blocking. They basically analyze the ability of the line to produce on 3rd/4th and short as well as keeping backs from getting hit in the backfield. The Jets ranked 10 and 2, relatively, in these two categories.

    Additionally, adjusted line yards (which basically gives the line more credit 0-4yds v. yards gained further away) has them ranked #5 in the league.

    Finally, the nail in the coffin is the 2nd level (yards gained between 5-10) and open field (10+), which basically assesses the talent of the RB. The Jets ranked 24th and 29th respectively. Further evidence that the big issue was the backs, not the line.
    I like seeing NO ranked 17, and Oak at 29 run blocking. Could bode well for Ivory, and Goodson. Interesting to notice who was far and away our best run blocker, and one of the best in the league. Howard improved his pass blocking considerably toward the end of the year, but his run blocking is among the best in the league. All of the options we have at guard are devastating run blockers, including Vlad. With Mangold in the middle I don't see how we won't have an outstanding running game if we stay relatively healthy.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMo View Post
    See my last post. They were a very good run blocking line. Also if you are asserting that Sanchez is so bad, that would explain the increased sacks. Guy held onto the ball forever. Also a huge bunch of sacks came in an outlier game when our third string QB decided he would hold onto the ball forever. Quit trolling, you could really use a ban at this point cause you are adding nothing to the conversation these days.
    Maybe it time for you to get banned the MO. ( reason everyone doesn't have to agree with you) I'm Sorry if you don't want to face reality. No fan who actually watch football would say with a straight face the Jets had a top ten oline in 2012. So stop with the excuses and accept the fact the jets oline wasn't that good in 2012. End of story There are plenty of Jet fans in this thread that don't believe the Jets oline was that good. So you want those posters to be banned too.(crime they disagree with you) Please Grow up and get a pair.


    Facts 48 sacks giving up throwing the ball the six least time in the Nfl. You most likely will have the same Qb this year, so we can't judge the Jets oline because it's not there fault. (than why even bothe3r to replace two starters on that oline) The Jets in 2009 and 2010 had the same Qb throwing the football and yet there oline was actually pretty good. ( blows your excuses right out of the water)
    Last edited by Raider9175; 07-02-2013 at 03:53 PM.

  5. #45
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    Please god, stop this Raider guy from posting any more...

    Read only..where are you

  6. #46
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    Everything about our offense sucked last year, including the offensive line.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Maybe it time for you to get banned the MO. ( reason everyone doesn't have to agree with you) I'm Sorry if you don't want to face reality. No fan who actually watch football would say with a straight face the Jets had a top ten oline in 2012. So stop with the excuses and accept the fact the jets oline wasn't that good in 2012. End of story There are plenty of Jet fans in this thread that don't believe the Jets oline was that good. So you want those posters to be banned too.(crime they disagree with you) Please Grow up and get a pair.


    Facts 48 sacks giving up throwing the ball the six least time in the Nfl. You most likely will have the same Qb this year, so we can't judge the Jets oline because it's not there fault. (than why even bothe3r to replace two starters on that oline) The Jets in 2009 and 2010 had the same Qb throwing the football and yet there oline was actually pretty good. ( blows your excuses right out of the water)
    No see here is the problem with you. If I ask you about the Raiders you'd give me every excuse on the planet for why the guys who were coming back will improve and how explosive every rookie will be. But you come onto a JETS message board on your high horse telling us that we are making excuses and that we are all idiots. You are a hypocritical annoyance and THAT is my problem with you. I have never had a problem with several Pats fans on here and have never called for the ban. Because guess what? They actually contributed and weren't here with the sole purpose of dousing any positive post with a dose of "realism". Any stat that doesn't support your BS negativity on the Jets is just an excuse. But I am sure if it supported your beloved black and silver you'd be explaining to us the merits of advanced statistics.

  8. #48
    o-line wasn't the problem. Every other offensive position was.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMo View Post
    No see here is the problem with you. If I ask you about the Raiders you'd give me every excuse on the planet for why the guys who were coming back will improve and how explosive every rookie will be. But you come onto a JETS message board on your high horse telling us that we are making excuses and that we are all idiots. You are a hypocritical annoyance and THAT is my problem with you. I have never had a problem with several Pats fans on here and have never called for the ban. Because guess what? They actually contributed and weren't here with the sole purpose of dousing any positive post with a dose of "realism". Any stat that doesn't support your BS negativity on the Jets is just an excuse. But I am sure if it supported your beloved black and silver you'd be explaining to us the merits of advanced statistics.
    Here is the problem the MO . You can't handle the truth or want to have an honest debate IF you really thought I was wrong with what I was saying, than why would it even bother you.( I'm just one man giving his opinion).

    The fact that it bothers you what I say , only reinforces that deep down you don't buy what your trying to sell. Jets have been so bad on offense the last two years ,that you can't HONESTLY put any Jet offense unit in the top ten.

    If the Jets Oline was as good as you say( top three lol) than there is no way you would have ranked as low as you were on offense. Or felt the need to change two players on that unit ( does it make any sense) .

    So you can keep blaming the Offensive coordinators , The Rbs, Qb , and the TE for the offense shortcomings , while giving the Oline a pass. Hey your entitle to your belief but doesn't mean I have to agree with you.

    nick Mangold had a down year in 2012 for a player of his standard , The Jets again felt the need to replace two starters on a Oline that was that great, and the offense was anemic in 2012 . YEt despite all those facts, you want me to believe they had a top three Oline in all of football. What suppose to be my response.
    In conclusion yes it okay to have hope for 2013 that Jets Oline will be much improved this year ,but it silly to argue that Oline was that good in 2012.( numbers and simple observation don't warrant that claim)
    Last edited by Raider9175; 07-03-2013 at 06:20 AM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Here is the problem the MO . You can't handle the truth or want to have an honest debate IF you really thought I was wrong with what I was saying, than why would it even bother you.( I'm just one man giving his opinion).

    The fact that it bothers you what I say , only reinforces that deep down you don't buy what your trying to sell. Jets have been so bad on offense the last two years ,that you can't HONESTLY put any Jet offense unit in the top ten.

    If the Jets Oline was as good as you say( top three lol) than there is no way you would have ranked as low as you were on offense. Or felt the need to change two players on that unit ( does it make any sense) .

    So you can keep blaming the Offensive coordinators , The Rbs, Qb , and the TE for the offense shortcomings , while giving the Oline a pass. Hey your entitle to your belief but doesn't mean I have to agree with you.

    nick Mangold had a down year in 2012 for a player of his standard , The Jets again felt the need to replace two starters on a Oline that was that great, and the offense was anemic in 2012 . YEt despite all those facts, you want me to believe they had a top three Oline in all of football. What suppose to be my response.
    In conclusion yes it okay to have hope for 2013 that Jets Oline will be much improved this year ,but it silly to argue that Oline was that good in 2012.( numbers and simple observation don't warrant that claim)
    I don't disagree with anything you said.. But I do find it amusing how critical you can be of jets, when your a fan of the bottom 3 franchises of the nfl past 10 years lol.. It's like a mental challenge kid laughing at another kid for getting a D on his test, yet the slow kid got a 32

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleansweep2013 View Post
    I don't disagree with anything you said.. But I do find it amusing how critical you can be of jets, when your a fan of the bottom 3 franchises of the nfl past 10 years lol.. It's like a mental challenge kid laughing at another kid for getting a D on his test, yet the slow kid got a 32
    Unfortunately they are the facts of my team the last 10 years, but that doesn't stop me from even having hope for this year and beyond. It would be stupid on my part to argue after the fact, that those teams weren't as bad as they were. You would laugh at me like i'm laughing at those jet fans trying to justify they had a top three oline in 2012. IF is a big word you can't apply to try and change the fact.
    Last edited by Raider9175; 07-03-2013 at 08:19 AM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Unfortunately they are the facts of my team the last 10 years, but that doesn't stop me from even having hope for this year and beyond. It would be stupid on my part to argue after the fact, that those teams weren't as bad as they were. You would laugh at me like i'm laughing at those jet fans trying to justify they had a top three oline in 2012. IF is a big word you can't apply to try and change the fact.
    I think you should jump in your bus and head over to the explosive team thread and discuss all your beloved Raidahs' dead cap money

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Mohegangreen View Post
    I think you should jump in your bus and head over to the explosive team thread and discuss all your beloved Raidahs' dead cap money

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Maybe it time for you to get banned the MO. ( reason everyone doesn't have to agree with you) I'm Sorry if you don't want to face reality. No fan who actually watch football would say with a straight face the Jets had a top ten oline in 2012. So stop with the excuses and accept the fact the jets oline wasn't that good in 2012. End of story There are plenty of Jet fans in this thread that don't believe the Jets oline was that good. So you want those posters to be banned too.(crime they disagree with you) Please Grow up and get a pair.


    Facts 48 sacks giving up throwing the ball the six least time in the Nfl. You most likely will have the same Qb this year, so we can't judge the Jets oline because it's not there fault. (than why even bothe3r to replace two starters on that oline) The Jets in 2009 and 2010 had the same Qb throwing the football and yet there oline was actually pretty good. ( blows your excuses right out of the water)
    I'm not sure I agree with that on it's face. It''s pretty clear that Sanchez regressed pretty badly last year. I do think the Jets OL was worse than PFF claims. ... but also don't forget that 13 of those 48 sacks came on one disastrous day where the OL was bad, but the terribly inexperienced QB (McElroy vs. Chargers) didn't get rid of the ball.

  15. #55
    Anyone who watched the games last year should know our OL was not very good. Just because they were the best unit on the offense doesn't automatically mean they were good. They were pretty awful in pass blocking. I can remember multiple times in just about every game where the defense was in the backfield almost immediately after the snap. They did open some good holes for Greene that he just flat out missed or got through and then deliberately ran into a LB instead of making a move, but overall the OL was pretty pisspoor. If we had decent players at all the other positions on offense we would be blasting the OL. Hopefully Colon and Winters can step up and help them this year.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Here is the problem the MO . You can't handle the truth or want to have an honest debate IF you really thought I was wrong with what I was saying, than why would it even bother you.( I'm just one man giving his opinion).

    The fact that it bothers you what I say , only reinforces that deep down you don't buy what your trying to sell. Jets have been so bad on offense the last two years ,that you can't HONESTLY put any Jet offense unit in the top ten.

    If the Jets Oline was as good as you say( top three lol) than there is no way you would have ranked as low as you were on offense. Or felt the need to change two players on that unit ( does it make any sense) .

    So you can keep blaming the Offensive coordinators , The Rbs, Qb , and the TE for the offense shortcomings , while giving the Oline a pass. Hey your entitle to your belief but doesn't mean I have to agree with you.

    nick Mangold had a down year in 2012 for a player of his standard , The Jets again felt the need to replace two starters on a Oline that was that great, and the offense was anemic in 2012 . YEt despite all those facts, you want me to believe they had a top three Oline in all of football. What suppose to be my response.
    In conclusion yes it okay to have hope for 2013 that Jets Oline will be much improved this year ,but it silly to argue that Oline was that good in 2012.( numbers and simple observation don't warrant that claim)
    Now you are an amateur psychologist... wonderful. I have an issue because you have increasingly felt the need to post on all issues here and you don't add anything different to any of the threads. It becomes annoying to read again and again. My claim has never been that the OL is top three. I don't think it was. Top ten? I think that was possible, great in the run game and very average in pass blocking combined with the worst QB in the league. I think PFF is off because they treat things as a complete numbers game. Excellent run blocking + very average pass blocking does not = top 3 in my mind. Need to be good at both but PFF doesn't really balance for that at all. I just don't think the line was terrible last year. Thought they were definitely a top 10 unit, which given the bar they have typically set, was a drop off for them.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snell41 View Post
    Anyone who watched the games last year should know our OL was not very good. Just because they were the best unit on the offense doesn't automatically mean they were good. They were pretty awful in pass blocking. I can remember multiple times in just about every game where the defense was in the backfield almost immediately after the snap. They did open some good holes for Greene that he just flat out missed or got through and then deliberately ran into a LB instead of making a move, but overall the OL was pretty pisspoor. If we had decent players at all the other positions on offense we would be blasting the OL. Hopefully Colon and Winters can step up and help them this year.
    See now if that happened that would have been reflected in PFFs rankings. You do realize that when teams blitz that the line cannot block them all. A TE, or a RB has to slow these guys down, or the QB has to throw a hot route. If teams figure out that we cannot handle it they will blitz constantly, which is exactly what happened.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMo View Post
    Now you are an amateur psychologist... wonderful. I have an issue because you have increasingly felt the need to post on all issues here and you don't add anything different to any of the threads. It becomes annoying to read again and again. My claim has never been that the OL is top three. I don't think it was. Top ten? I think that was possible, great in the run game and very average in pass blocking combined with the worst QB in the league. I think PFF is off because they treat things as a complete numbers game. Excellent run blocking + very average pass blocking does not = top 3 in my mind. Need to be good at both but PFF doesn't really balance for that at all. I just don't think the line was terrible last year. Thought they were definitely a top 10 unit, which given the bar they have typically set, was a drop off for them.
    JMo you have two choices. don't read my posts( because I'm going to keep giving my position on a subject) or man up and accept that everyone doesn't have to agree with you and there is no need to get upset because we see things different.( why does it matter so much that I don't agree with you)

    Now back on topic. We must have a different definition of great . The jets averaged a paltry 3.8 yards per carry. The reason they finished 12 was they ran the ball the sixth most times .( maybe because there passing game wasn't that good). Go look up the teams that averaged less than that, there aren't that many teams .
    You can blame your running backs all you want but if you really had a top ten rushing Oline than you would expect that average to be a lot higher.

    Giving up 48 sacks throwing the football the sixth least time is not average in my book. ( that's pretty poor)

    Your entitle to believe what you want . You think your Oline was top
    Ten than your Fo isn't too bright replacing two of the staters on that unit. JMo The Jets didn't have a top ten Oline and pro football focus lost all credibility trying to make a case that Jets had the third best Oline in football last year.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    JMo you have two choices. don't read my posts( because I'm going to keep giving my position on a subject) or man up and accept that everyone doesn't have to agree with you and there is no need to get upset because we see things different.( why does it matter so much that I don't agree with you)

    Now back on topic. We must have a different definition of great . The jets averaged a paltry 3.8 yards per carry. The reason they finished 12 was they ran the ball the sixth most times .( maybe because there passing game wasn't that good). Go look up the teams that averaged less than that, there aren't that many teams .
    You can blame your running backs all you want but if you really had a top ten rushing Oline than you would expect that average to be a lot higher.

    Giving up 48 sacks throwing the football the sixth least time is not average in my book. ( that's pretty poor)

    Your entitle to believe what you want . You think your Oline was top
    Ten than your Fo isn't too bright replacing two of the staters on that unit. JMo The Jets didn't have a top ten Oline and pro football focus lost all credibility trying to make a case that Jets had the third best Oline in football last year.
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetsCrazey View Post
    o-line wasn't the problem. Every other offensive position was.
    + 1

    There are many issues on O needing to be addressed

    The O-line is not one of them at this time. They were great before Wayne Hunter ... Thankfully he was jettisoned ... Howard improved and is now adequate ... FA's with some injury ? Has been brought in ... Along with depth through the draft

    We have plenty of other "situations" to be concerned about on offense ... OL is not one of them

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