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Thread: Stop blaming the 2012 O line

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    JMo you have two choices. don't read my posts( because I'm going to keep giving my position on a subject) or man up and accept that everyone doesn't have to agree with you and there is no need to get upset because we see things different.( why does it matter so much that I don't agree with you)

    Now back on topic. We must have a different definition of great . The jets averaged a paltry 3.8 yards per carry. The reason they finished 12 was they ran the ball the sixth most times .( maybe because there passing game wasn't that good). Go look up the teams that averaged less than that, there aren't that many teams .
    You can blame your running backs all you want but if you really had a top ten rushing Oline than you would expect that average to be a lot higher.

    Giving up 48 sacks throwing the football the sixth least time is not average in my book. ( that's pretty poor)

    Your entitle to believe what you want . You think your Oline was top
    Ten than your Fo isn't too bright replacing two of the staters on that unit. JMo The Jets didn't have a top ten Oline and pro football focus lost all credibility trying to make a case that Jets had the third best Oline in football last year.

    How many times are you going to repeat this point? It means NOTHING. Moore and Slauson were/are FAs..... Moore, at his age, was not worth re-signing to a long term deal-- throw in that his hips have been a problem, and you can see why he wasn't re-signed. Those factors have nothing to do with how he played, LAST YEAR. He is still unsigned, as of now, and I expect he will be, until TCs open.... at that point, he may be picked up on a one year deal, by some team, including the Jets, for OL depth. That does not mean he was bad, last year.... it's just the business of the NFL and a salary cap. Slauson was serviceable, between 2 All Pros, but he had a strained relationship with the Jets, and a good relationship with Callahan. Again, that has nothing to do with his, or the OL's performance, LAST YEAR.... it just means that he was replaceable.

    I haven't said that the line was top 3, in 2012.... I believe they were top 10, though. However, to continue to use "replacing two starters" as proof that the OL was bad, is just dumb..... and reeks of someone that doesn't understand what the NFL is all about.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    See now if that happened that would have been reflected in PFFs rankings. You do realize that when teams blitz that the line cannot block them all. A TE, or a RB has to slow these guys down, or the QB has to throw a hot route. If teams figure out that we cannot handle it they will blitz constantly, which is exactly what happened.
    That's a fair point. Alot of our blocking deficiencies did have to do with the RB/TE, and certainly with the QB. I still don't think they were top 10 as a unit as stats would suggest.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    I actually feel sorry for you if you really believe what your trying to convince yourself. Yes Your Oline might not be your biggest problem on offense( have so many holes on offense that it pales in comparison to the other positions- so there some truth there).

    Maybe your OC could call a little more screen passes if butt fumbler didn't have a penchant for throwing those passes to opposing dlineman.
    I ask this before do you honestly think the Jets had a top ten Oline in 2012 . IF they did than why did they replace two starting Olineman and hire a new Oline coach. Would any team in their right mind do that.
    This talk about Jets Oline is like saint fans trying to make a case their dline was top three. Totally unbelievable.
    I honestly think the jets had a top 10 line

    1. I watch games and understand football, something you clearly dont.

    2. Websites and statisticians who spend their careers watching each individual player along the line graded us as top 10. Newsflash - those people know WAY more then you do.

    You dont watch every jet game, so your basis for your argument is simply your bias combined with reading stats like "sacks" and thinking thats the end all be all.

    Could it be at all possible that teams blitzed us, making the lines job harder because they knew our QB couldnt handle line adjustments or throws in the face of pressure? You dont consider things like that because you just like to come out against the jets in every argument.

    Watching games doesnt tell the whole story and analytics dont either, but combined when they both tell the same story, its probably true.

    How many all pro olineman did peyton manning have - very few, but he never gets sacked because he gets the ball out on time and changes protections better then any QB in the league. Our QB did NONE of that - which is why to a fan that doesnt understand nuances, it looks like our line sucked, when in fact that was far from the case.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Here is the problem the MO . You can't handle the truth or want to have an honest debate IF you really thought I was wrong with what I was saying, than why would it even bother you.( I'm just one man giving his opinion).

    The fact that it bothers you what I say , only reinforces that deep down you don't buy what your trying to sell. Jets have been so bad on offense the last two years ,that you can't HONESTLY put any Jet offense unit in the top ten.

    If the Jets Oline was as good as you say( top three lol) than there is no way you would have ranked as low as you were on offense. Or felt the need to change two players on that unit ( does it make any sense) .

    So you can keep blaming the Offensive coordinators , The Rbs, Qb , and the TE for the offense shortcomings , while giving the Oline a pass. Hey your entitle to your belief but doesn't mean I have to agree with you.

    nick Mangold had a down year in 2012 for a player of his standard , The Jets again felt the need to replace two starters on a Oline that was that great, and the offense was anemic in 2012 . YEt despite all those facts, you want me to believe they had a top three Oline in all of football. What suppose to be my response.
    In conclusion yes it okay to have hope for 2013 that Jets Oline will be much improved this year ,but it silly to argue that Oline was that good in 2012.( numbers and simple observation don't warrant that claim)
    Oh FFS raider come on, "can't accept facts" coming from a fan of the 3rd worst team in the league last year with not a playoff appearance in over a decade is hard to take, if anyone can't take facts it's you my friend.

    Do you understand what a pr1ck you look coming on here with your negativity and constant bashing of the jets? Nobody values your opinion because its such a narrow minded ill informed one.

    You have zero credibility here, you constantly have egg on your face, you talk so negatively about the jets but won't accept a damn ounce of criticism on the raiders.

    I don't think you should be banned personally, you are entitled to your opinion no matter how controversial and narrow minded it may be.

    I for one am calling on all jets fans to ignore and never respond to this fame whore's posts again!! And stick to it, no attention means he will soon disappear with any luck.

    People will respect your comments here, trouble is every one of yours is negative, you never offer insightful factual points, just antagonising controversial regurgitated garbage that will gain a reaction.

    Go on raider offer one piece of encouragement to the Jets, you know this terrible team that was still better then YOURS last year.

    Had enough.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Okay Do you honestly think that the Jets offense line was top ten even. There isn't anything you can point to to justify that ranking.(pulling team names out of a hat isn't the best way to judge the top olines) So just because the oline might have been the best thing going for the worse offense in all of football , doesn't mean it was any good. The numbers don't lie.

    Whats next your going to tell me the Butt fumble never happened either. Btw stay on topic as were talking about Jets oline bogus rankings.
    Here you are again. Every single one of your posts is about how bad the Jets are, were, and will be. Every single one. I'm pretty sure someone wronged you in some way in your life, and he/she was a Jets fan.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    JMo you have two choices. don't read my posts( because I'm going to keep giving my position on a subject) or man up and accept that everyone doesn't have to agree with you and there is no need to get upset because we see things different.( why does it matter so much that I don't agree with you)

    Now back on topic. We must have a different definition of great . The jets averaged a paltry 3.8 yards per carry. The reason they finished 12 was they ran the ball the sixth most times .( maybe because there passing game wasn't that good). Go look up the teams that averaged less than that, there aren't that many teams .
    You can blame your running backs all you want but if you really had a top ten rushing Oline than you would expect that average to be a lot higher.

    Giving up 48 sacks throwing the football the sixth least time is not average in my book. ( that's pretty poor)

    Your entitle to believe what you want . You think your Oline was top
    Ten than your Fo isn't too bright replacing two of the staters on that unit. JMo The Jets didn't have a top ten Oline and pro football focus lost all credibility trying to make a case that Jets had the third best Oline in football last year.
    Hey Raider here is what another pundit thinks of that awesome all pro front 7 and receiving core you have.

    "Can you face facts" or is it just Jet fans that must?

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...-into-the-void

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    I honestly think the jets had a top 10 line

    1. I watch games and understand football, something you clearly dont.

    2. Websites and statisticians who spend their careers watching each individual player along the line graded us as top 10. Newsflash - those people know WAY more then you do.

    You dont watch every jet game, so your basis for your argument is simply your bias combined with reading stats like "sacks" and thinking thats the end all be all.

    Could it be at all possible that teams blitzed us, making the lines job harder because they knew our QB couldnt handle line adjustments or throws in the face of pressure? You dont consider things like that because you just like to come out against the jets in every argument.

    Watching games doesnt tell the whole story and analytics dont either, but combined when they both tell the same story, its probably true.

    How many all pro olineman did peyton manning have - very few, but he never gets sacked because he gets the ball out on time and changes protections better then any QB in the league. Our QB did NONE of that - which is why to a fan that doesnt understand nuances, it looks like our line sucked, when in fact that was far from the case.
    couple of points. Just because you find the need to keep saying you know football, means you know football.( like your trying to convince yourself)

    One when you say I can't watch every Jet game your wrong. There is a very good product Nfl rewind. Not onlY can you watch the whole game but they have condensed version and the coaches tape( I have it )for every single nfl game. you can't believe how fast an Nfl game is without the commercials and all other stoppages.

    So coach I love for someone to teach me something about the games of football. this can be interesting . I will watch the condensed vErsion( just all plays) of all the sacks the Jets gave up in 2012 . Write them down when they occurred . Put on the coaches tape and watch those plays. from my coaches eye app I will tape the sacks from my iPod those sack plays. ( there is no question what the defense was doing) Than I will post those plays to this site so we can all watch what was going on.

    how about we make this a season experiment. We do four a week looking at those sack plays and you and everyone else can explain what I'm missing. So are you down with this.

    BTW For all those Jet fans who use Wayne Hunter as excuse . Once he was gone the Oline improved. I wasn't going to harp on the fact that Wayne Hunter was traded in the preseason .( stuff like that kind of make you look silly)
    Last edited by Raider9175; 07-04-2013 at 05:54 AM.

  8. #68
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    haven't you SHUT UP yet?

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    haven't you SHUT UP yet?
    Out of 21,265 posts you had Sg3 how many were of substance and how many were this variety. IT not quantity but quality of post that make up a poster worth.

    Btw at least you stop with 8,420 post of this poster on my ignore list.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snell41 View Post
    That's a fair point. Alot of our blocking deficiencies did have to do with the RB/TE, and certainly with the QB. I still don't think they were top 10 as a unit as stats would suggest.
    PFF isn't perfect, but they're as close as you can get right now, and they try to improve. They watch, and grade every play of every player, on every team. Don't forget these rankings include run blocking in which we were outstanding. We were around average pass blocking(only lineman), and top 5 run blocking. The fact that those initial yards were squandered by the backs, or ruined by horrible TE/WR blocking doesn't apply to this.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    couple of points. Just because you find the need to keep saying you know football, means you know football.( like your trying to convince yourself)

    One when you say I can't watch every Jet game your wrong. There is a very good product Nfl rewind. Not onlY can you watch the whole game but they have condensed version and the coaches tape( I have it )for every single nfl game. you can't believe how fast an Nfl game is without the commercials and all other stoppages.

    So coach I love for someone to teach me something about the games of football. this can be interesting . I will watch the condensed vErsion( just all plays) of all the sacks the Jets gave up in 2012 . Write them down when they occurred . Put on the coaches tape and watch those plays. from my coaches eye app I will tape the sacks from my iPod those sack plays. ( there is no question what the defense was doing) Than I will post those plays to this site so we can all watch what was going on.

    how about we make this a season experiment. We do four a week looking at those sack plays and you and everyone else can explain what I'm missing. So are you down with this.

    BTW For all those Jet fans who use Wayne Hunter as excuse . Once he was gone the Oline improved. I wasn't going to harp on the fact that Wayne Hunter was traded in the preseason .( stuff like that kind of make you look silly)
    You would need to watch every game of every team to rank the olines. The game has changed. Just because the Jets OC forgot to change doesn't mean the other teams haven't. QBs are getting rid of the ball faster, because defenses are getting after it more. We're not comparing the Jets oline to what you think of as a good line. We're comparing it to the other 31 teams last year.

    How many of your 5400 posts have been about how great the Raiders are going to be? If I remember right, you used to pretend to be a Jets fan, along with a Raiders fan. I guess to rationalize your being here. Don't the Raiders have their own board?

  12. #72
    If the jets had Peyton manning in 2011, Wayne hunter would have been a complete non factor.


    Good qb's make their line better than they actually are, and bad qb's make it look a lot worse. Sanchez is the worst qb in nfl history so it's no surprise that Wayne hunter - a guys with no previous history of sucking - all of the sudden appeared terrible out of nowhere.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    You would need to watch every game of every team to rank the olines. The game has changed. Just because the Jets OC forgot to change doesn't mean the other teams haven't. QBs are getting rid of the ball faster, because defenses are getting after it more. We're not comparing the Jets oline to what you think of as a good line. We're comparing it to the other 31 teams last year.

    How many of your 5400 posts have been about how great the Raiders are going to be? If I remember right, you used to pretend to be a Jets fan, along with a Raiders fan. I guess to rationalize your being here. Don't the Raiders have their own board?
    Never pretended to be anything that what I am. If I didn't want anyone to know I was a Raider fan than why call myself Raider9175( even you can figure out what team I root for). I am not and never was a Jet fan. I do have family members who are Jet season ticket holders. (fact)

    What your basically doing is making excuses for your olines and your offense short comings . I have nothing to support my position but just my opinion and a bunch of Geeks who never worked in an NFl front office or probably played the game. Ignore the fact that My team averaged 3.8 yard per carry.( one of the worst numbers in the nfl and gave up 48 sacks throwing the football the six less times.

    If were to believe your Drivel that mark Sanchez was holding on the ball too long, explain why he only completed 54% of his passes. That is beyond embarrassing. What would he be at 35% if he just threw the football away. Please don't admit again that you write to that garbage dump Pro football focus for explanation. (Jets oline was the third best destroyed all their credibility) The Jets are top three in any offense category is totally not believable.

    BTW again I have NFL game rewind and coaches tape. I can see every sack the Jets gave up and who was at fault. ( I don't need someone else to do the thinking for me)
    Last edited by Raider9175; 07-04-2013 at 09:09 AM.

  14. #74
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    please god just shut up

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Never pretended to be anything that what I am. If I didn't want anyone to know I was a Raider fan than why call myself Raider9175( even you can figure out what team I root for). I am not and never was a Jet fan. I do have family members who are Jet season ticket holders. (fact)

    What your basically doing is making excuses for your olines and your offense short comings . I have nothing to support my position but just my opinion and a bunch of Geeks who never worked in an NFl front office or probably played the game. Ignore the fact that My team averaged 3.8 yard per carry.( one of the worst numbers in the nfl and gave up 48 sacks throwing the football the six less times.

    If were to believe your Drivel that mark Sanchez was holding on the ball too long, explain why he only completed 54% of his passes. That is beyond embarrassing. What would he be at 35% if he just threw the football away. Please don't admit again that you write to that garbage dump Pro football focus for explanation. (Jets oline was the third best destroyed all their credibility) The Jets are top three in any offense category is totally not believable.

    BTW again I have NFL game rewind and coaches tape. I can see every sack the Jets gave up and who was at fault. ( I don't need someone else to do the thinking for me)
    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...-into-the-void

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    couple of points. Just because you find the need to keep saying you know football, means you know football.( like your trying to convince yourself)

    One when you say I can't watch every Jet game your wrong. There is a very good product Nfl rewind. Not onlY can you watch the whole game but they have condensed version and the coaches tape( I have it )for every single nfl game. you can't believe how fast an Nfl game is without the commercials and all other stoppages.

    So coach I love for someone to teach me something about the games of football. this can be interesting . I will watch the condensed vErsion( just all plays) of all the sacks the Jets gave up in 2012 . Write them down when they occurred . Put on the coaches tape and watch those plays. from my coaches eye app I will tape the sacks from my iPod those sack plays. ( there is no question what the defense was doing) Than I will post those plays to this site so we can all watch what was going on.

    how about we make this a season experiment. We do four a week looking at those sack plays and you and everyone else can explain what I'm missing. So are you down with this.

    BTW For all those Jet fans who use Wayne Hunter as excuse . Once he was gone the Oline improved. I wasn't going to harp on the fact that Wayne Hunter was traded in the preseason .( stuff like that kind of make you look silly)
    Do I agree to rewatch and catalog the jets offensive line plays with someone on an anonymous sports message board, um NO.

    If you want to post something backing up your "the line sucked" theory go ahead. You never back up your statements here anyway, so Im far from worried that you will make anyone, let alone myself, look foolish.

    Lastly - I know its hard to follow your poor typing but what were you referencing with respect to wayne hunter? We are defending the play of the offensive line - why would we use a player who wasnt on the team in 2012 as an excuse. That makes absolutely no sense.

  17. #77
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    Carson Palmer + DHB = Superbowl!!!!

    Right, dumbass?

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Do I agree to rewatch and catalog the jets offensive line plays with someone on an anonymous sports message board, um NO.

    If you want to post something backing up your "the line sucked" theory go ahead. You never back up your statements here anyway, so Im far from worried that you will make anyone, let alone myself, look foolish.

    Lastly - I know its hard to follow your poor typing but what were you referencing with respect to wayne hunter? We are defending the play of the offensive line - why would we use a player who wasnt on the team in 2012 as an excuse. That makes absolutely no sense.
    Don't worry. He's just butt hurt, and can't let go of a losing argument. You could watch all the film you want. People have already done it. The facts don't matter to people like him. It's a "feeling" he gets. He doesn't understand the game no matter how much he watches, so arguing with him is like trying to argue with a child. They don't remember any of the details. Only how they felt. He doesn't understand this game of inches, or tenths of seconds. Hold a block for an extra 10th of a second makes you a better lineman, but if the QB gets rid of the ball a tenth of a second earlier, or the RB gets a half a step that's the same. He doesn't understand how holding the ball too long would result in a lower completion percentage. If you throw the ball too late, which was a constant problem for Sanchez, or check it down at the last second, also too late because the line is already in your face that may be a problem. Lets not even mention the play calling or starting receivers from off the street. Now that I think about it, I really don't think he really watched the games.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Do I agree to rewatch and catalog the jets offensive line plays with someone on an anonymous sports message board, um NO.

    If you want to post something backing up your "the line sucked" theory go ahead. You never back up your statements here anyway, so Im far from worried that you will make anyone, let alone myself, look foolish.

    Lastly - I know its hard to follow your poor typing but what were you referencing with respect to wayne hunter? We are defending the play of the offensive line - why would we use a player who wasnt on the team in 2012 as an excuse. That makes absolutely no sense.
    Again you talk a good game but I guess your not as confidant in your football knowledge as you want people to think. ( could have enlighten everyone on this board with your football X's and O's . Oh well tell us forty more times how much you know.

    The statement about wayne hunter was not directed at you but was about Jet fans in this thread making a claim the Oline improved so much when Hunter was replaced. Hunter was traded in the preseason.( so how does he count for 2012 oline- exactly my point.

    One of m
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman Harris View Post
    The OL was fine once they FINALLY got rid of Hunter, that sorry sack!

    (assuming this is about Sanchez, just skimmed) Sanchez is the problem. The OL is solid.
    You really couldn't ask for much more.
    any post.
    Last edited by Raider9175; 07-04-2013 at 07:04 PM.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Again you talk a good game but I guess your not as confidant in your football knowledge as you want people to think. ( could have enlighten everyone on this board with your football X's and O's . Oh well tell us forty more times how much you know.

    The statement about wayne hunter was not directed at you but was about Jet fans in this thread making a claim the Oline improved so much when Hunter was replaced. Hunter was traded in the preseason.( so how does he count for 2012 oline- exactly my point.

    One of many post.
    Are you still here?

    If so, WHY?

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