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Thread: Stop blaming the 2012 O line

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Again you talk a good game but I guess your not as confidant in your football knowledge as you want people to think. ( could have enlighten everyone on this board with your football X's and O's . Oh well tell us forty more times how much you know.

    The statement about wayne hunter was not directed at you but was about Jet fans in this thread making a claim the Oline improved so much when Hunter was replaced. Hunter was traded in the preseason.( so how does he count for 2012 oline- exactly my point.

    One of many post.
    First off. Confident is spelled with an E you moron

    Secondly, it has nothing to so with my knowledge and has EVERYTHING to do with not having an interest in debating someone who doesn't care about facts - it's a waste of my time

    Why don't you tell us again how Holmes had a "Grade 4" lisfranc injury even though there are only 3 grades to the injury.

    I look forward to the regular season when the raiders are 1-7 and you are stop
    Coming on this board

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by freestater View Post
    Carson Palmer + DHB = Superbowl!!!!

    Right, dumbass?
    J Russel was going to go on to be an elite, top QB.

    This is the genus that can evaluate any player, any unit.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Snell41 View Post
    That's a fair point. Alot of our blocking deficiencies did have to do with the RB/TE, and certainly with the QB. I still don't think they were top 10 as a unit as stats would suggest.
    +1

    Difference between last two years and previous years was we had no RB who could chip block and no blocking TE...


    And we still don't

  4. #84
    the problem starts with sanchez. he's indecisive. some of that may be laid on the receivers and some on the oline but the greates problem is sanchez doesn't instinctively know where the ball needs to go. he holds onto it too long. and he rarely hits his receivers in stride.

    Quote Originally Posted by JetsNeedNewton View Post
    I keep seeing comments about how bad our Offensive Line was last year when in reality people can't get the 2011 turnstile days out of their minds. Good article adding to PFF's #3 ranking of our O Line last year:

    Under Pressure: The Offensive Line and Mark Sanchez

    Written by Jason Astafan on 29 June 2013.







    The Jets offensive line lost two guards in the offseason, but picked up a couple veterans and multiple draftees in return. [Rob Foldy, USA TODAY Sports]
    Many are ready and willing to blame the offensive line for many of the woes experienced by the New York Jets in 2012. If the offensive line were better, they would have been able to keep quarterback Mark Sanchez upright, out of trouble, and his completion percentage would have been higher as a result.

    Well now, that’s not exactly the case at all. According to Pro Football Focus, the offensive line of the New York Jets has been ranked a top-5 offensive line in three of the last four years, with only 2011 seeing them ranked out of the top-10 (Wayne Hunter as starting right tackle and injuries to Nick Mangold made this possible.)

    2009 and 2010 saw the offensive line ranked as 1st in the league—the years the team made it to the AFC Championship game.
    As for 2012, after sorting out the right tackle situation and utilizing journeyman Austin Howard to replace Wayne Hunter, the team finished with the 3rd ranked offensive line in the league.

    So, if the offensive line was good last year, how is it that the quarterback play was so atrocious? Much of that has to do with the decision making of the quarterback, and for insight into the quarterback’s decision making, I think it’s important to look at how the quarterback handles pressure.

    By the Numbers
    If you take the time to look into a quarterback’s passing numbers under pressure, I feel that you can get a decent look into how well that quarterback makes decisions. Several questions need to be asked of a quarterback under pressure. How often is the quarterback pressured, what’s the quarterback’s completion percentage under pressure, and how often does the quarterback throw the ball away?

    According to Pro Football Focus, Mark Sanchez was pressured on 100 drop backs, or about 29% of his passing attempts, tied for 12th lowest in the league, with Houston’s Matt Schaub. However, despite facing such a low amount of pressure, Sanchez is the most inaccurate quarterback in the league when encountering pressure, completing only 48% of his passes. For comparison, the league average for accuracy when facing pressure is 61%.

    More digging after the jump...
    For greater analysis, let’s compare Sanchez to the quarterback he’s tied with for pressure percentage, Texans quarterback Matt Schaub. That statline is where the similarities between the two end. When looking at the two key figures that would indicate a quarterback’s decision-making under pressure, throw-away percentage and sack percentage, one can see how the two differ immediately.

    Matt Schaub was sacked on 13% of his dropbacks, and threw the ball away when pressured 10.5% of the time. Sanchez, on the other hand, was sacked on 23% of his dropbacks and threw the ball away only 4% of the time. Schaub’s completion percentage under pressure was 66%, versus Sanchez’s league-worst 48.5%. Sanchez is obviously not Matt Schaub, and the Jets don’t have the offensive weapons that the Texans can boast, but I think it speaks volumes of a quarterback who’s willing to throw the ball away versus taking the sack and perhaps placing your team in a negative yardage situation.

    What does this mean?
    Despite having one of the better offensive lines in the league, Sanchez still managed to be ranked 28th for sack percentage in the league, and have a league-worst completion percentage when pressured. Could this be because of the lack of skill players on offense in 2012? Possibly. In an effort to search for open receivers he may have held the ball too long, resulting in a higher sack percentage and lower completion percentage.
    However, the fact that he chose to hold onto the ball and take the sack instead of throwing the ball away and perhaps saving his team some negative yardage, does not give me confidence in his decision making abilities. Will he do better under Mornhinweg’s offense? There are those who think that—yes he can thrive in such an offense. However after four years of Mark Sanchez under center, there are only so many times you can blame the offensive line for his mistakes.

  5. #85
    There was pretty much no talent at all on the offensive side of the ball. What's ironic about this topic is that strangely enough the OL is actually where all of the offensive talent exists. Mangold and Brick are still great talents and they should be for years yet.

    Pretty much the rest of the offense though was crap. Santonio has shown nothing since getting his extension. He's also too busy blaming everyone else for his own problems.

    Jeremy Kerley is a real talent, but lets face it, he's never going to set the world on fire. This guy will never be a game changer. As a slot receiver and maybe even as a number 2 receiver, he is someone that the team can keep.

    Dustin Keller was way too oft injured to be any real asset to the team. It's also probably the biggest reason he is no longer a Jet.

    All in all, between laziness of players, incompetence on the part of the GM, bad coaching, a bit of an injury bug, this was a perfect storm.

    But I'm hesitant to think the FO shouldn't have seen this coming. The offense in 2011 was nothing special and based on that season the writing should have been on the wall for them.

    And in regards to Sanchez, this has all been talked about ad nauseum. Sanchez is terrible and no one could possibly debate that. The ONLY way I could ever believe Sanchez is capable of improving is if I actually witnessed it. But I won't. Even MM and his great resume of offense cannot save Sanchez. When your QB is as inaccurate as Sanchez, NO ONE can help him. That's really the bottom line.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by sameoldjets View Post
    the problem starts with sanchez. he's indecisive. some of that may be laid on the receivers and some on the oline but the greates problem is sanchez doesn't instinctively know where the ball needs to go. he holds onto it too long. and he rarely hits his receivers in stride.
    Great post of that article, pretty clear that the resident JI Idiot is arguing that the jets line was terrible.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Great post of that article, pretty clear that the resident JI Idiot is arguing that the jets line was terrible.
    Great article if you really think Profootball focus is credible. When they claim that unit was top three- speaks for itself.( not believable and numbers don't bear out their rankings. I think Bleacher report is more credible than Pro football focus and that saying a lot right there.

    The fact is Jets still will probably have the same Qb behind center, and so many holes + question marks on offense. So you can give The oline like fans use to give Mark sanchez a pass, but it still isn't going to change the fact that this is going to be a pretty bad offense in 2013.
    That all that matters . So keep believing you have this great oline, but in the end you have nothing to show for it. The sad part is that when jets finally get good on offense+ as a team, they probably are going to have to replace the two best players on the Oline. (Dbrick and Mangold) Not going to be easy .
    Last edited by Raider9175; 07-06-2013 at 10:38 AM.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Great article if you really think Profootball focus is credible. When they claim that unit was top three- speaks for itself.( not believable and numbers don't bear out their rankings. I think Bleacher report is more credible than Pro football focus and that saying a lot right there.

    The fact is Jets still will probably have the same Qb behind center, and so many holes + question marks on offense. So you can give The oline like fans use to give Mark sanchez a pass, but it still isn't going to change the fact that this is going to be a pretty bad offense in 2013.
    That all that matters . So keep believing you have this great oline, but in the end you have nothing to show for it. The sad part is that when jets finally get good on offense+ as a team, they probably are going to have to replace the two best players on the Oline. (Dbrick and Mangold) Not going to be easy .
    Yeah, that is saying a lot. That's like saying that Ophra Winfrey, is more credible, than Walter Cronkite, or the Raiders are better than the Jets.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Great article if you really think Profootball focus is credible. When they claim that unit was top three- speaks for itself.( not believable and numbers don't bear out their rankings. I think Bleacher report is more credible than Pro football focus and that saying a lot right there.

    The fact is Jets still will probably have the same Qb behind center, and so many holes + question marks on offense. So you can give The oline like fans use to give Mark sanchez a pass, but it still isn't going to change the fact that this is going to be a pretty bad offense in 2013.
    That all that matters . So keep believing you have this great oline, but in the end you have nothing to show for it. The sad part is that when jets finally get good on offense+ as a team, they probably are going to have to replace the two best players on the Oline. (Dbrick and Mangold) Not going to be easy .
    Bleacher report is more credible????

    That explains a lot. Now I know why you come
    up with the things you do.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Bleacher report is more credible????

    That explains a lot. Now I know why you come
    up with the things you do.
    Yeah well the bleacher report guys watch sports center to get the actual high lights. PFF only grades each play from every player, and objectively assigns a numerical value to it. You can't trust numbers. What are you going to believe, your eyes, or the numbers?

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Great article if you really think Profootball focus is credible. When they claim that unit was top three- speaks for itself.( not believable and numbers don't bear out their rankings. I think Bleacher report is more credible than Pro football focus and that saying a lot right there.


    I don't agree with the PFF article, stats be damned. That said, the bolded bit above may have been the dumbest post you've ever made on the internet, here or otherwise.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    Yeah well the bleacher report guys watch sports center to get the actual high lights. PFF only grades each play from every player, and objectively assigns a numerical value to it. You can't trust numbers. What are you going to believe, your eyes, or the numbers?
    Objectively? Says who . Again you can blame your Qb, RB, your OC, your owner or whoever you want. It still doesn't 't change the fact you have one of the worst offense in the game. The stats don't lie and at the end of the day you can't seriously try and say your oline was the third best in the league. you can try to make that case but no one in their right mind believes that.( stats say Woody Johnson owes a piece of Pro football Focus)

    When you get a top ten offense and can actual do something on offense come back and try and sell how good your Oline is. Than I might take your argument seriously.
    btw Nick Mangold had a down year for his standard and It doesn't matter because I can make any bogus claim I want because who needs to provide facts.( hey when I want to know football I like to talk to my accountant- same thing if I was to take what Pro football focus came up with.
    Last edited by Raider9175; 07-06-2013 at 05:02 PM.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Jetworks View Post


    I don't agree with the PFF article, stats be damned. That said, the bolded bit above may have been the dumbest post you've ever made on the internet, here or otherwise.
    No what is dumb to me. Is when so called fans watch everyone of their teams game and yet don't trust their own eyes. ( what they are seeing).
    Some fantasy football site produce some garbage analysis how they arrived at this conclusion( my guess they pulled all 32 teams out of a hat and boom ).

    That like people who believe when these groups report the end of the world is near. Just because one nut says something means it suddenly fact.
    It okay to have hope for this new Oline but don't sell me on an Oline after the season was over, that they were one of the best olines. ( says who- a site that come up with their own grading system that Is very subjective at the very least). Especially when we witness this comedy show of an offense.
    So in conclusion believe in the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and the Jets Oline was top three. Who am I to wake you up from your sleep. That's what the offseason for- dreams. Dream away.
    Last edited by Raider9175; 07-06-2013 at 05:32 PM.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Objectively? Says who . Again you can blame your Qb, RB, your OC, your owner or whoever you want. It still doesn't 't change the fact you have one of the worst offense in the game. The stats don't lie and at the end of the day you can't seriously try and say your oline was the third best in the league. you can try to make that case but no one in their right mind believes that.( stats say Woody Johnson owes a piece of Pro football Focus)

    When you get a top ten offense and can actual do something on offense come back and try and sell how good your Oline is. Than I might take your argument seriously.
    btw Nick Mangold had a down year for his standard and It doesn't matter because I can make any bogus claim I want because who needs to provide facts.( hey when I want to know football I like to talk to my accountant- same thing if I was to take what Pro football focus came up with.
    Oh yes the numbers are not objective. It's all been explained to you, but we cannot understand it for you. How in the world is it homeristic to say that it was the QB, WRs, RBs, and TEs that were the problem? They were all on the Jets. Two of the olinemen are not. I hope, for your sake, that you're no older than 12.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    No what is dumb to me. Is when so called fans watch everyone of their teams game and yet don't trust their own eyes. ( what they are seeing).
    Some fantasy football site produce some garbage analysis how they arrived at this conclusion( my guess they pulled all 32 teams out of a hat and boom ).

    That like people who believe when these groups report the end of the world is near. Just because one nut says something means it suddenly fact.
    It okay to have hope for this new Oline but don't sell me on an Oline after the season was over, that they were one of the best olines. ( says who- a site that come up with their own grading system that Is very subjective at the very least). Especially when we witness this comedy show of an offense.
    So in conclusion believe in the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and the Jets Oline was top three. Who am I to wake you up from your sleep. That's what the offseason for- dreams. Dream away.
    There are 22 men interacting on the field on every play. Unless you focus specifically on each player you cannot judge what just happened, and why. If you can't understand that then there's no hope for you. Everyone is ignorant, but some of us can figure out which questions to ask. If you don't even realize what you don't know, you're lost.
    Last edited by NY's stepchild; 07-06-2013 at 09:27 PM.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    No what is dumb to me.
    Using "No" when you should use "know"?



    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Is when so called fans watch everyone of their teams game and yet don't trust their own eyes. ( what they are seeing).
    Some fantasy football site produce some garbage analysis how they arrived at this conclusion( my guess they pulled all 32 teams out of a hat and boom ).
    I trust my own eyes. That was the first thing I said, that I disagreed with the article, stats be damned. Now my eyes are telling me that you're all butthurt over being wrong. Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    That like people who believe when these groups report the end of the world is near. Just because one nut says something means it suddenly fact.
    Lolwut exasperated butthurt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    It okay to have hope for this new Oline but don't sell me on an Oline after the season was over, that they were one of the best olines. ( says who- a site that come up with their own grading system that Is very subjective at the very least). Especially when we witness this comedy show of an offense.
    Lolwut exasperated butthurt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    So in conclusion believe in the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and the Jets Oline was top three. Who am I to wake you up from your sleep. That's what the offseason for- dreams. Dream away.
    Lolwut, I'm dreaming that I agree that the OL wasn't anywhere near as good as what PFF is reporting?


  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    There are 22 men interacting on the field on every play. Unless you focus specifically on each player you cannot judge what just happened, and why. If you can't understand that then there's no hope for you. Everyone is ignorant, but some of us can figure out which questions to ask. If you don't even realize what you don't know, you're lost.
    Change your tune you say this every year . You don't know what the hell it means but it sounds cool.
    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    You don't know unless you have all 22 film you don't know exactly what was going on. It certainly seems to me that Sanchez had no faith that the receivers would be where he expected them to be and when. Now is that on the receivers or him? I don't know, but just maybe they ought to keep running these plays until the QB and WR are on the same page. If no one is open, and there are no other options, then you end up staring down the receiver waiting for a window to throw in. This would especially be true if you had no time to do a pre snap read of the defense, The formation was tipping the defense off as to the play, and you don't trust the O line. Hopefully Sporano will fix those problems, and we'll keep the defense on their heels instead of ourselves. No more excuses. They might struggle at first, but it should be a lot more clear as to what went wrong, and they should at least look more like they have a purpose out there. By mid season Sanchez should look like he's in full control, and running the show, or I'll agree that it's time to find the next candidate.

    Blah Blah Let me make up stuff when i have no facts to support my position.

  18. #98
    Last year's O-line was average. Made to look horrible because Sanchez was the walking turnover machine and we had no receivers that could get open so the offense all together looked like an abortion.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Change your tune you say this every year . You don't know what the hell it means but it sounds cool.



    Blah Blah Let me make up stuff when i have no facts to support my position.
    Are you really accusing other posters of "Making up stuff"???

    You came on here talking about Holmes' Grade 4 lisfranc injury when there are only 3 grades.

    You constantly make up baseless claims - give it a rest.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Are you really accusing other posters of "Making up stuff"???

    You came on here talking about Holmes' Grade 4 lisfranc injury when there are only 3 grades.

    You constantly make up baseless claims - give it a rest.
    Dude give it a rest this is the same guy who told me I was stupid 4 years ago for saying the Raiders should have drafted Calvin Johnson over Jamarcus Russell. "You have to go after the franchise qb" lol


    He's just a very hardcore Raiders fan. I respect his loyalty and that he didn't just jump on a bandwagon like most Pats fans but you cannot listen to his criticism of the Jets especially when they've been a much more successful team over the last 10 years.

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