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Thread: Mike Holmgren believes Mark Sanchez will have “fine year” for Jets

  1. #41
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    Holmgren is off the Walsh (WCO) tree and has his own accomplishments so he deserves to be listened to, however, he is just stating the obvious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    This is actually what I'm afraid of. For Sanchez to have somewhat of a bounce back year, looks a little promising and puts up decent numbers. I'd much rather him totally sh!t the bed or completely turn it around and become a Pro Bowler. Him going middle of the road just potentially brings him back here and could inhibit the franchise from moving forward.

    If he wants to pull a Drew Brees-like resurrection, I'm all for it. Absent that, just keep throwing the ball to the other team and lets move on to Geno.
    To many people like you on this board. Thats the problem. Baby steps. He is still a young guy. It would be a miracle for him to play great. If he does well thats good. We still have Geno. Sanchez isnt tied to money anymore after this year

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    This is actually what I'm afraid of. For Sanchez to have somewhat of a bounce back year, looks a little promising and puts up decent numbers. I'd much rather him totally sh!t the bed or completely turn it around and become a Pro Bowler. Him going middle of the road just potentially brings him back here and could inhibit the franchise from moving forward.

    If he wants to pull a Drew Brees-like resurrection, I'm all for it. Absent that, just keep throwing the ball to the other team and lets move on to Geno.
    Quote Originally Posted by brex View Post
    I don't understand how any fan would want a player on the Jets to be unsuccessful. If he bounces back, that's always a good. At the very least, we get higher trade value.

    That attitude is like when teams try to tank a season to get a higher draft pick. That doesn't work. Look at Detroit. They have more top picks than anyone....and they still suck.
    Quote Originally Posted by SRQman87 View Post
    Absolutely ridiculous.
    Quote Originally Posted by jets31 View Post
    To many people like you on this board. Thats the problem. Baby steps. He is still a young guy. It would be a miracle for him to play great. If he does well thats good. We still have Geno. Sanchez isnt tied to money anymore after this year
    Did any of you actually read the post you quoted?

    It's a valid concern. If Sanchez has a year where he finishes 19th in the league in passing, what does the team do with him in the offseason?

    Trade him / let him walk? OK, then Idzik would have just given up a QB who (technically) finished in the top 20 of all QBs, to hand the team over to a rookie who may not see the field this year. If Geno then fizzles and Sanchez stays top 20, Idzik will get ripped.

    Keep him? Then Idzik kept a guy that 90% of the fans want gone yesterday. With a new contract. Again he gets ripped.

    Not wanting Sanchez to finish middle-of-the-road is understandable, if you want to avoid another layer of complexity and/or a more difficult decision in the 2014 offseason. If he ****s the bed or makes the pro-bowl (LOL), then the decision is simple.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenWave View Post
    Did any of you actually read the post you quoted?

    It's a valid concern. If Sanchez has a year where he finishes 19th in the league in passing, what does the team do with him in the offseason?

    Trade him / let him walk? OK, then Idzik would have just given up a QB who (technically) finished in the top 20 of all QBs, to hand the team over to a rookie who may not see the field this year. If Geno then fizzles and Sanchez stays top 20, Idzik will get ripped.

    Keep him? Then Idzik kept a guy that 90% of the fans want gone yesterday. With a new contract. Again he gets ripped.

    Not wanting Sanchez to finish middle-of-the-road is understandable, if you want to avoid another layer of complexity and/or a more difficult decision in the 2014 offseason. If he ****s the bed or makes the pro-bowl (LOL), then the decision is simple.
    Honestly an assessment must be made at that point.

    The coaching staff in this case primarily MM have to decide whether or not Sanchez has the ability to improve further and move to say a top 12 level QB. If the coaching staff feels that Sanchez can make that further step then maybe just maybe they keep him. Thin if Sanchez can perform at the 19th rated QB in the NFL with the talent that surrounds him there is a good indication that if you get him a top flight WR, TE and RB he could make that jump so it tough....

    However if they see that Sanchez has reached his ceiling at 19 then the Jets might get rid of Sanchez with the hope that Geno could actually have a a greater upside. Of course that is based on the underlying assumption that Geno continues to improve during the season and in practices.


    Despite my answer, the question as you imply is tough should the Jets win 11 games with Sanchez as QB and make the playoffs under those circumstances the Jets might end up going another season with Sanchez.... That is the reality of the situation no matter what many on this board may wish to the contrary.....
    Last edited by Charlie Brown; 07-02-2013 at 09:33 PM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenWave View Post
    Did any of you actually read the post you quoted?

    It's a valid concern. If Sanchez has a year where he finishes 19th in the league in passing, what does the team do with him in the offseason?

    Trade him / let him walk? OK, then Idzik would have just given up a QB who (technically) finished in the top 20 of all QBs, to hand the team over to a rookie who may not see the field this year. If Geno then fizzles and Sanchez stays top 20, Idzik will get ripped.

    Keep him? Then Idzik kept a guy that 90% of the fans want gone yesterday. With a new contract. Again he gets ripped.

    Not wanting Sanchez to finish middle-of-the-road is understandable, if you want to avoid another layer of complexity and/or a more difficult decision in the 2014 offseason. If he ****s the bed or makes the pro-bowl (LOL), then the decision is simple.
    And Idzik is too dumb to figure that out?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenWave View Post
    Did any of you actually read the post you quoted?

    It's a valid concern. If Sanchez has a year where he finishes 19th in the league in passing, what does the team do with him in the offseason?

    Trade him / let him walk? OK, then Idzik would have just given up a QB who (technically) finished in the top 20 of all QBs, to hand the team over to a rookie who may not see the field this year. If Geno then fizzles and Sanchez stays top 20, Idzik will get ripped.

    Keep him? Then Idzik kept a guy that 90% of the fans want gone yesterday. With a new contract. Again he gets ripped.

    Not wanting Sanchez to finish middle-of-the-road is understandable, if you want to avoid another layer of complexity and/or a more difficult decision in the 2014 offseason. If he ****s the bed or makes the pro-bowl (LOL), then the decision is simple.
    First off he is basically rooting against the team to do well but mostly if he does ok then you re-evaluate for the next year like everyone else on the team. Basically thats what this year will be, evaluation for EVERYONE.

    If he is just ok then yeah why not give him a new contract. You know Idzik will give him a team friendly deal. Tanny is gone. By then we will know more about Geno as well. Maybe then you just let Sanchez walk.

    The fear is just stupid. Its all based on past history. Idzik is running a different show here and not everyone has realized that yet.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Brown View Post
    Holmgren is nothing but another Sanchez apologist!!!

    Why what the hell does this man really know about offense and QB play in the NFL?!!! Nothing right!!! He can't see Sanchez in accuracy problems? He lauds Sanchez mechanics when he came out of college but many on this board have said Sanchez has no mechanics!!! And well their opinion on butt fumble boy is good enough for me.

    I for one am sick and tired of these championship winning HCs who have developed Outdtanding QBs in the past running to the defense of Sanchez when they obviously don't have a clue of how to win and develop QB play in the NFL!!!

    It is simple Holmgrem sucks!!!


    Highly decorated, and well known former HC and GM who knows a thing or two about QB's offers support for Sanchez, and the anti-Sanchez brigade throws him under a bus.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    And Idzik is too dumb to figure that out?
    Never said he was. But I'm also not ready to say that a first-year GM is infallible.

    Chad Pennington turned in the type of performance I'm talking about back in '06. If his deal was up after that season, would anyone have faulted Tanny for giving him a "team-friendly" deal? Probably not. But then 8 games into the '07 season, everyone would have been calling for Tanny's head for extending Noodle-Arm and delaying the development of the immortal Kellen Clemens.

    The point is simply that if Sanchez is 2012 Sanchez, Geno sees the field right away and we know going into the '14 season what needs to be done at the QB position. If Sanchez makes the Pro-Bowl next year, and no one will give a **** about Geno one way or the other.

    I don't think it's wrong to want to avoid the QB situation the team had in '07.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenWave View Post
    Never said he was. But I'm also not ready to say that a first-year GM is infallible.

    Chad Pennington turned in the type of performance I'm talking about back in '06. If his deal was up after that season, would anyone have faulted Tanny for giving him a "team-friendly" deal? Probably not. But then 8 games into the '07 season, everyone would have been calling for Tanny's head for extending Noodle-Arm and delaying the development of the immortal Kellen Clemens.

    The point is simply that if Sanchez is 2012 Sanchez, Geno sees the field right away and we know going into the '14 season what needs to be done at the QB position. If Sanchez makes the Pro-Bowl next year, and no one will give a **** about Geno one way or the other.

    I don't think it's wrong to want to avoid the QB situation the team had in '07.
    If Sanchez makes the pro bowl that would be a dream come true. How could you not want that? Geno is a 2nd round pick. No pressure to hurry to play him. If Sanchez later fails then you have Geno. I know ppl are fearing this but no way Sanchez gets a big contract no matter how he performs this season. One year wont be enough and Idzik will play it safe.

  10. #50
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    have to agree with Holmgren on this one


    Standing on the sideline holding a clipboard and holding for Nick Folk's place kicks is a perfect spot for Buttfumble. I predict he will have a FINE YEAR and reduce his annual turnover number from 26 to 0 before leaving Florham Park forever at the end of the season.

    I wish him luck in all his future endeavors


    GENO TIME 2013

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe W. Namath View Post
    This is holmgren the "cleveland years" talking.

    The holmgren "packers years" would have cut this turd already.
    Because with Favre in his prime, who wouldn't be cut?

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    I think that's probably right. But, it certainly muddies the waters a bit. We still will be faced with having to start afresh with an untested QB. THere will be the argument out there that "Sanchez is still relatively young and improving....give him some weapons and some time and he can be effective." Sure we've heard before and have said that "this is the final time" but lines always get re-drawn. Even by well meaning people.
    crash, you've been hanging around here too long, brother, and the myopic, "i have to have it all right now," foot-stomping impatience of the nattering nabobs is rubbing off on you.

    the fact is, if Sanchez shows significant improvement and becomes a middle of the pack QB, it SHOULD muddy the waters and there SHOULD be consideration given to the possibility of keeping him. if he shows significant improvement, the odds of him continuing to improve and becoming a franchise QB (top 10) would probably be higher than the odds of us finding someone else at that level through the draft or FA. and by that time the coaching staff would have a better idea of who and what Geno is. if he's showing lots of promise, yes, we'd have a decision to make between the two -- and that would be a nice problem to have. at the very least, we'd have a tradable commodity in Sanchez. it's a win-win.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenWave View Post
    Did any of you actually read the post you quoted?

    It's a valid concern. If Sanchez has a year where he finishes 19th in the league in passing, what does the team do with him in the offseason?

    Trade him / let him walk? OK, then Idzik would have just given up a QB who (technically) finished in the top 20 of all QBs, to hand the team over to a rookie who may not see the field this year. If Geno then fizzles and Sanchez stays top 20, Idzik will get ripped.

    Keep him? Then Idzik kept a guy that 90% of the fans want gone yesterday. With a new contract. Again he gets ripped.

    Not wanting Sanchez to finish middle-of-the-road is understandable, if you want to avoid another layer of complexity and/or a more difficult decision in the 2014 offseason. If he ****s the bed or makes the pro-bowl (LOL), then the decision is simple.
    this approach is totally fear-based. i'd take a complex situation with options over a terrible situation with no options any day. Idzik gets paid to deal with complexity and make difficult decisions. it's pretty simple -- it's better for the team when the players on that team perform better. wanting sanchez to fail simply to save Idzik the difficulty of making a decision is just lame.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffneycatch View Post
    this approach is totally fear-based. i'd take a complex situation with options over a terrible situation with no options any day. Idzik gets paid to deal with complexity and make difficult decisions. it's pretty simple -- it's better for the team when the players on that team perform better. wanting sanchez to fail simply to save Idzik the difficulty of making a decision is just lame.
    Not you too, Gaffney. Why does everyone read those messages as wanting Sanchez to fail? I would LOVE it if the guy succeeds and has the type of year we thought he was capable of during that nice run in 2010. If he's the starter, of course I want him to throw for 4,000 and 30 TDs. If he's the starter, I hope he makes Geno a complete afterthought.

    What I don't want is for him to throw for 3100 yards, 18 TDs and 12 INTs. That is not a "good" performance from the QB position. It's also not a terrible performance. So then what do you do?

    I just don't see how it's wrong to want the QB play to dictate a clear way forward for the GM. I don't care if it's Sanchez or Geno. Just want to avoid a Jake Plummer / Jeff Blake / Stan Humphries / Chad Pennington etc. situation where the team keeps waiting on a QB to get them over the hump and won't cut ties...only to find that the QB ultimately isn't good enough to make it happen.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaffneycatch View Post
    this approach is totally fear-based. i'd take a complex situation with options over a terrible situation with no options any day. Idzik gets paid to deal with complexity and make difficult decisions. it's pretty simple -- it's better for the team when the players on that team perform better. wanting sanchez to fail simply to save Idzik the difficulty of making a decision is just lame.
    Dude you are dead on with your last two posts. Glad there are still some level headed fans out there.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenWave View Post
    Not you too, Gaffney. Why does everyone read those messages as wanting Sanchez to fail? I would LOVE it if the guy succeeds and has the type of year we thought he was capable of during that nice run in 2010. If he's the starter, of course I want him to throw for 4,000 and 30 TDs. If he's the starter, I hope he makes Geno a complete afterthought.

    What I don't want is for him to throw for 3100 yards, 18 TDs and 12 INTs. That is not a "good" performance from the QB position. It's also not a terrible performance. So then what do you do?

    I just don't see how it's wrong to want the QB play to dictate a clear way forward for the GM. I don't care if it's Sanchez or Geno. Just want to avoid a Jake Plummer / Jeff Blake / Stan Humphries / Chad Pennington etc. situation where the team keeps waiting on a QB to get them over the hump and won't cut ties...only to find that the QB ultimately isn't good enough to make it happen.
    i only skimmed the thread so i may have missed your full point. I hear you what you're saying...that if MS is starting, as a Jets fan you'd welcome him having a great season that clearly dictates that he is worth keeping. Obviously, that would be an ideal scenario. But I stick to my point that any GM worth having is there to make tough decisions, and to prefer that a player makes the decision easy by playing terribly rather than playing so-so is a fear-based position. I'm not saying I don't understand that position given the Jets (and other teams') past history of sticking too long with mediocre QBs. But, I still feel that if this franchise is ever going to become a top rate organization, we have to have a guy running the show who doesn't need to be protected from having to make tough decisions. If Sanchez improves to middle of the pack, there's a chance he'll be on his way to becoming top 10. I WANT Idzik to have to decide whether or not that is likely to happen, and whether or not we should stick with him. And if Geno looks like he has a higher chance of becoming top 10, I WANT Idzik to have the chance to make a trade for Sanchez. Those scenarios are better for the Jets than having Sanchez crap the bed, and leaving Geno (or some other unknown) as our only options. JMO.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaffneycatch View Post
    i only skimmed the thread so i may have missed your full point. I hear you what you're saying...that if MS is starting, as a Jets fan you'd welcome him having a great season that clearly dictates that he is worth keeping. Obviously, that would be an ideal scenario. But I stick to my point that any GM worth having is there to make tough decisions, and to prefer that a player makes the decision easy by playing terribly rather than playing so-so is a fear-based position. I'm not saying I don't understand that position given the Jets (and other teams') past history of sticking too long with mediocre QBs. But, I still feel that if this franchise is ever going to become a top rate organization, we have to have a guy running the show who doesn't need to be protected from having to make tough decisions. If Sanchez improves to middle of the pack, there's a chance he'll be on his way to becoming top 10. I WANT Idzik to have to decide whether or not that is likely to happen, and whether or not we should stick with him. And if Geno looks like he has a higher chance of becoming top 10, I WANT Idzik to have the chance to make a trade for Sanchez. Those scenarios are better for the Jets than having Sanchez crap the bed, and leaving Geno (or some other unknown) as our only options. JMO.

    Correct. Could you imagine, although unlikely, that we have a Brees-Rivers situation after next season? Believe me it would be a good thing not a bad.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffneycatch View Post
    i only skimmed the thread so i may have missed your full point. I hear you what you're saying...that if MS is starting, as a Jets fan you'd welcome him having a great season that clearly dictates that he is worth keeping. Obviously, that would be an ideal scenario. But I stick to my point that any GM worth having is there to make tough decisions, and to prefer that a player makes the decision easy by playing terribly rather than playing so-so is a fear-based position. I'm not saying I don't understand that position given the Jets (and other teams') past history of sticking too long with mediocre QBs. But, I still feel that if this franchise is ever going to become a top rate organization, we have to have a guy running the show who doesn't need to be protected from having to make tough decisions. If Sanchez improves to middle of the pack, there's a chance he'll be on his way to becoming top 10. I WANT Idzik to have to decide whether or not that is likely to happen, and whether or not we should stick with him. And if Geno looks like he has a higher chance of becoming top 10, I WANT Idzik to have the chance to make a trade for Sanchez. Those scenarios are better for the Jets than having Sanchez crap the bed, and leaving Geno (or some other unknown) as our only options. JMO.
    Good response (no surprise there). I can't really argue that, because it's all win for the Jets if Idzik is the type of guy who comes out with a clean shirt every time he puts his hands in the mud. I can't say I'm sold after 5 months on the job, but I'll admit that he's had a good start.

    Quote Originally Posted by jets31 View Post
    Correct. Could you imagine, although unlikely, that we have a Brees-Rivers situation after next season? Believe me it would be a good thing not a bad.
    Funny you bring up that example...don't you think there are a few Chargers fans out there that kinda wish Brees had locked up the position with an outstanding season rather than a pretty good one that got him traded?

    We can round and round on this one though. I think you guys both have good points, guess I'm just more cautious and want it easy for this team for a change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenWave View Post
    Good response (no surprise there). I can't really argue that, because it's all win for the Jets if Idzik is the type of guy who comes out with a clean shirt every time he puts his hands in the mud. I can't say I'm sold after 5 months on the job, but I'll admit that he's had a good start.



    Funny you bring up that example...don't you think there are a few Chargers fans out there that kinda wish Brees had locked up the position with an outstanding season rather than a pretty good one that got him traded?

    We can round and round on this one though. I think you guys both have good points, guess I'm just more cautious and want it easy for this team for a change.

    Brees was a FA, if IIRC, but the point is still valid.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenWave View Post
    Funny you bring up that example...don't you think there are a few Chargers fans out there that kinda wish Brees had locked up the position with an outstanding season rather than a pretty good one that got him traded?

    We can round and round on this one though. I think you guys both have good points, guess I'm just more cautious and want it easy for this team for a change.
    Maybe there are but I think the chargers made out pretty good on the deal. Rivers has had a pretty good career. The lack of success for the chargers since that time has little to do with Rivers.

    There are always going to be people second guessing things no matter how they turned out.

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