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Thread: Report: Jets "toying" with using Geno to change pace.

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by sect313 View Post
    agree. lets say geno wins the job sucks and jets have high draft pick. they can still pick a QB next year because Smith is not making that much

    Smith was great value where they got him even if he sucks
    Smith was great value in the sense that, as already stated, if he sucks we will at least have a very high draft pick as to pick another QB.

    If he actually shows that he can be the Starting QB going forward, then we draft some offensive weapons for him to use.

  2. #182
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    I'm not very familiar with Geno's playing style, can we use him like how SF used Colin K before he got the starters job?

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    I watched carefully the one day STHs were invited to see the minicamp. Sanchez and Smith both looked good. McElroy and Simms, noet so much. It's a small sample I admit but if a raw rookie looks as good as a four year starter and better than last year's backup and another guy with previous training camp experience, I thought it was pretty good.

    Going into the real training camp at Cortland, I was encouraged with what I saw with my own eyes and prefer to go by that as opposed to the crap spewed out of his butt by Our Dick of espn.ny
    Awesome another one that loves the good practice qb's wake me up when we get a competent qb on Sundays.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by kennyo7 View Post
    This is simply not true.
    The chances of a QB busting in the 1st round is far less than that of a QB picked in subsequent rounds. History has shown this to be true time and time again. The number of QBs in the 1st rd who wind up stinking is far less.

    Earlier I gave you a list of QBs drafted in the second round since 1992. Here is a list of QBs drafted in the 1st round since 1992. 22/48 of the QBs taken (45.8%) ended up being solid starters. Thats much better 3 out of 22 (13.6%) taken in the 2nd round

    1992 Tommy Maddox, Broncos
    1992 Dave Klingler, Bengals
    1993 Rick Mirer, Seahawks
    1993 Drew Bledsoe, Pats
    1994 Trent Dilfer, Bucs
    1994 Heath Miller, Redskins
    1995 Steve McNair, Oilers
    1995 Kerry Collins, Panthers
    1996 No QBs Picked
    1997 Jim Druckenmiller (49ers)
    1998 Ryan Leaf, Chargers
    1998 Peyton Manning (Colts)
    1999 Akili Smith, Cincinatti
    1999 Cade McNown (Bears)
    1999 Daunte Culpepper (Vikings)
    1999 Donovan McNabb, Philadelphia
    1999 Tim Couch, Cleveland Browns
    2000 Chad Pennington, NY Jets
    2001 Michael Vick, Atlanta Falcons
    2002 Joey Harrington Detroit Lions
    2002 Patrick Ramsey Washington Redskins
    2003 Carson Palmer Cincinnati Bengals
    2003 Byron Leftwich Jacksonville Jaguars
    2003 Kyle Boller Baltimore Ravens
    2003 Rex Grossman Chicago Bears
    2004 Eli Manning San Diego Chargers
    2004 Philip Rivers New York Giants
    2004 Ben Roethlisberger Pittsburgh Steelers
    2004 J.P. Losman Buffalo Bills
    2005 Alex Smith San Francisco 49ers
    2005 Aaron Rodgers Green Bay Packers
    2005 Jason Campbell Washington Redskins
    2006 Vince Young Tennessee Titans
    2006 Matt Leinart Arizona Cardinals
    2006 Jay Cutler Denver Broncos
    2007 JaMarcus Russell Oakland Raiders
    2007 Brady Quinn Cleveland Browns
    2008 Matt Ryan Atlanta Falcons
    2008 Joe Flacco Baltimore Ravens
    2009 Matt Stafford Detroit Lions
    2009 Mark Sanchez New York Jets
    2009 Josh Freeman Tampa Bay Buccaneers
    2010 Sam Bradford St. Louis Rams
    2010 Tim Tebow Denver Broncos
    2011 Cam Newton, Panthers
    2011 Jake Locker, Titans
    2011 Blaine Gabbert, Jax
    2011 Christian Ponder, Vikings
    2012 Andrew Luck, Colts
    2012 RGIII, Redskins
    2012 Ryan Tannehill, Dolphins
    2012 Brandon Weeden, Browns
    Take out the ones drafted #1, or #1, and #2 overall and you're back to your 14%. You just don't know when to quit. Tannehill, Collins, Cullpepper, Alex Smith, and, Bradford, are all around the same as some of the guys you didn't like on the 2nd round list. Collins, Smith, and Cullpepper would never have played more than a year if they were 2nd round picks.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden 2.0 View Post
    I'm not very familiar with Geno's playing style, can we use him like how SF used Colin K before he got the starters job?
    I'll go with Rex' answer which caused all of this controversy. I suppose he could, because he's athletic enough, but he never ran an option at WV so we don't know, but it's possible.

  6. #186
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    So, I haven't read through the whole thread, so maybe this was covered. But was any coach ever quoted? Every article I saw about this quoted the Cimini article, but no where else. Also, the phrasing, "...toying with the idea" seems awfully speculative, especially in the middle of July.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    Smith is a lot less flawed than the immobile statue we passed over Dan Marino to draft in 1983


    the true definition of a WASTED PICK
    Meh. I really believe the What if about O'Brien and the 1983 draft is a two parter. The idea that O'Brien was a wasted pick is a little silly.

    1. What if the Jets drafted Marino
    2. What if O'Brien didn't get hurt game 11 of the 1986 season.

    O'Brien was a monster in his first 2 seasons as a starter until he got hurt and played through injury (100 Rating, arguably the 2nd best QB in the league over that stretch), he was never close to the same QB after that.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by ucrenegade View Post
    Awesome another one that loves the good practice qb's wake me up when we get a competent qb on Sundays.
    the real blessing for the 2013 Jets

    YOUR useless POS Teblow is no longer hanging around nor are his tebowite cult of ignorant fans and thus things smell a million percent better

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10PennyToColes87 View Post
    Brad Smith was a jack-of-all trades, a WR, KR, and even emergency QB.

    Geno Smith is a rookie quarterback (Ryan's second, by the way) that we can only hope is developed PROPERLY, and not asked to learn a silly offense.
    You're arguing that Rex is stupid for doing something he hasn't done and may not ever do.

    That may not even be his idea. Because Cimini hints they may be contemplating doing it.

    But hey, you can count to two, thats more than some.

    Love these idiotic arguments.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cablebob View Post
    When you have a QB that has performed as bad as Sanchez has the last two years...

    How could it hurt to let Smith take some snaps?
    The answer is "IT CAN'T HURT"...

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Nut View Post
    You're arguing that Rex is stupid for doing something he hasn't done and may not ever do.

    That may not even be his idea. Because Cimini hints they may be contemplating doing it.

    But hey, you can count to two, thats more than some.

    Love these idiotic arguments.
    +1

    A silly offense?

    I love all of our armchair GM's and coaches on this board

    The same silly offense that gave Kaepernick his opportunities before he took over the starting role last year. The same offense Cam Newton runs. The same offense Wilson runs a wrinkle of in Seattle.

    This is a non-story, the media being the dumbasses they are and creating a story, and fans eating it up.

    I have no issue with Smith getting opportunities with the offense if he doesn't win the starting job.

    It will enhance the QB controversy, but that's already in place, if Sanchez wins the job, he will have earned, despite the media, despite the controversy, despite the fans, and with his play. Smith is an athlete, and like Kaepernick, there is no reason the team shouldn't make use of that talent and slowly work on his opportunities, unless he takes the starting job.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batmans A Scientist View Post
    Meh. I really believe the What if about O'Brien and the 1983 draft is a two parter. The idea that O'Brien was a wasted pick is a little silly.

    1. What if the Jets drafted Marino
    2. What if O'Brien didn't get hurt game 11 of the 1986 season.

    O'Brien was a monster in his first 2 seasons as a starter until he got hurt and played through injury (100 Rating, arguably the 2nd best QB in the league over that stretch), he was never close to the same QB after that.
    I loved O'Brien. It will never be the same winning a SB without him. He was a great talent, that was very poorly treated, and he was just starting to come back into form when the Coslet/Nagle era ran him out of town. I'll never feel quite the same since the press conference with Norman wearing #7 before Kenny was released.

    That said, the point is that Marino dropped to 27th. Maybe the best QB ever, and a blue chip prospect. The fact that 26 teams passed on him is just more proof, added to the other hundreds of players that proved GMs are often wrong, and that the fact a player was drafted late does not mean he's not good.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    Take out the ones drafted #1, or #1, and #2 overall and you're back to your 14%. You just don't know when to quit. Tannehill, Collins, Cullpepper, Alex Smith, and, Bradford, are all around the same as some of the guys you didn't like on the 2nd round list. Collins, Smith, and Cullpepper would never have played more than a year if they were 2nd round picks.
    QFT. If Vick or Smith where 2nd rounders neither would even be in the league right now. If you listed all or the 2nd and 3rd round QBs that where actually drafted to be starters it would be a very very short list. Guys like Trent Edwards and Chad Henne are not the norm 2nd round QBs. Most are drafted to be BU, WC or some other option, or just projects in general. Mallett wasnt drafted to start over Brady lets be realistic. You have to look at guys like Stanton and Clausen who where drafted then the next year had a different coach that wanted to bring in their guy as well. Can you imagine if that happened to Mike Vick? The % of 2nd and 3rd rounder that produce widely very because they simply dont get the same opportunities.

  14. #194
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    I don't understand this "Geno may be a bust" based on where he was drafted, it's irrelevant listing 2nd round QB's who busted because Geno was listed as a 1st round grade/talent by every team in the NFL.

    He go passed over for other reasons such as demeanour, team needs etc, he was never passed over due to flaws in his mechanics or talent as a QB, his talent is undeniable.

    He absolutely is a 1st round QB so his chance of busting is not as nailed on as some seem to think, he is in no way compatible to the K Clemens of this world.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    So you are going to wait for an Andrew Luck prospect and the number 1 pick to ever draft a QB?? Got it, have fun with that philosophy.
    That's why we should draft Bridgewater next year if possible ... Then we would have two guys that are not Andrew Luck and increase our chances of capturing lightning in a bottle.

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
    I don't understand this "Geno may be a bust" based on where he was drafted, it's irrelevant listing 2nd round QB's who busted because Geno was listed as a 1st round grade/talent by every team in the NFL.
    This is getting comical ... Every team passed on Geno as a first round pick ... Some teams twice ... Ahem ...

    He IS actually less than K Clemens in that regard.

  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
    I don't understand this "Geno may be a bust" based on where he was drafted, it's irrelevant listing 2nd round QB's who busted because Geno was listed as a 1st round grade/talent by every team in the NFL.

    He go passed over for other reasons such as demeanour, team needs etc, he was never passed over due to flaws in his mechanics or talent as a QB, his talent is undeniable.

    He absolutely is a 1st round QB so his chance of busting is not as nailed on as some seem to think, he is in no way compatible to the K Clemens of this world.
    This is just clearly untrue. If Geno Smith was graded as a "1st round talent by every team in the NFL" then one of many teams who needed a QB would have drafted/traded for him before the Jets got him at 39.

    However, the majority of NFL successes were drafted at the top half of the first round, there is no difference between guys drafted between 15 and 45. There is a significant difference between guys drafted 1-5 and 6-10, though

    The best 3 guys drafted in that range since 1990 in the first round are Aaron Rodgers, Chad Pennington, and Joe Flacco
    the best 3 guys drafted in that range since 1990 in the 2nd round are Brett Favre, Drew Brees, and Jake Plummer.

    1st round picks do get more of an opportunity to succeed, I'm confident that Rex Grossman, Kyle Boller, and JP Losman would not have gotten 30+ starts in the NFL if their teams would have been more willing to cut a 1st round bust.

  18. #198
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    Reminds me of when Rex said that Tebow might be on the field for 20 plays. And first the press, then the board went crazy with the thought of Tebow running 20 offensive plays per game. Because being on the field for 20 meant running 20 plays.

    How many games did we see Tebow on the field for 20 plays, never mind did he run 20 plays the was it was twisted into.

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batmans A Scientist View Post
    This is just clearly untrue. If Geno Smith was graded as a "1st round talent by every team in the NFL" then one of many teams who needed a QB would have drafted/traded for him before the Jets got him at 39.

    However, the majority of NFL successes were drafted at the top half of the first round, there is no difference between guys drafted between 15 and 45. There is a significant difference between guys drafted 1-5 and 6-10, though

    The best 3 guys drafted in that range since 1990 in the first round are Aaron Rodgers, Chad Pennington, and Joe Flacco
    the best 3 guys drafted in that range since 1990 in the 2nd round are Brett Favre, Drew Brees, and Jake Plummer.

    1st round picks do get more of an opportunity to succeed, I'm confident that Rex Grossman, Kyle Boller, and JP Losman would not have gotten 30+ starts in the NFL if their teams would have been more willing to cut a 1st round bust.
    This is exactly my point, so how is it untrue?

    Geno was not only a 1st round grade he was projected as the 1st overall pick in January, come draft day he was still projected to go in the top ten and not make it past the jags or Kansas City, not to mention the Bills.

    The draft turned on its head when the Bills selected Manuel, so does this mean he is a 1st round grade and top of most teams boards? if any QB is likely to bust it's Manuel, he was projected as a late 2nd early 3rd by most talent evaluators.

    Why was there so much shock on draft day on Geno's slide? Mayock etc for the life of them could not fathom why he slid the way he did.

    All I'm saying is that where Geno was selected does not reflect his talent, furthermore he is less likely to bust because he was a top ten talent in this draft, no way every team had him graded as a 2nd rounder regardless of whether they passed on him or not.

  20. #200
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    So at the end of the day it all goes back to the original comment: The historical odds of any drafted QB to be successful are less than 50%.

    IMHO a lot of the Geno enthusiasm here is more "anything rather than Sanchez" than truly being enamored with Geno's history and skills.

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