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Thread: How McDonalds Abuseds it's Workers.....or Maybe Not?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    That is one of the problems of increasing minimum wage. It raises the whole scale via inflation so that the new "minimum" has effectively the same buying power.

    Government programs such as Obamacare are forcing companies to reduce people to part time to avoid Obamacare mandates. Companies have to stay profitable. If you raise the minimum wage there will be either less jobs or ridiculous inflation.

    I love how these case studies show the "poor" paying $100 or $200 for phone and cable. How about going with a basic plan for both at most? Also like you said glasses last a long time, why get a reoccurring fee for contacts when you don't have money.

    In answer to the snarky comment from lil about free transportation walk or use a week's transportation money to buy a nice bike that will serve you 80% of the time (assuming they can take the bus during bad weather).
    First of all, my snarky comment was perfectly reasonable. So far I've heard people say someone should ride a bike, should walk, but certainly they shouldn't be expecting to afford basic public transportation to get their job. This is just getting dumb and dumber. Anybody check lately what the average cost of a studio apartment is in large cities such as NY, LA, Chicago, SF, D.C., Miami, etc.? What does $600 get you?

    Re the minimum wage, it should be understood first that there are many states that already have a higher minimum wage than the federal standard of $7.25. In real dollars, $7.25 is not anywhere near what it has been for periods in the past. Locking minimum wage to inflation seems very reasonable to me with a floor that reflects CPI or some other indicator of purchasing power. All the frankly ridiculous discussion about a minimum wage of $60K etc, is just another canard to avoid the question at hand. Is the minimum wage fairly adjusted or not? We're talking pennies in direction or another, sometimes dimes, occasionally quarters, not double, tripling or vastly increasing it. Here's at least one of many charts that show the trend in the MW over the decades...

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MhNm4snZSb...employment.jpg

  2. #22
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    LOL

    Why the hell should flipping a burger and lowering a basket of fries into a deep fryer pay more than minimum wage?

    Literally ANYONE can step into this position. It requires no real skill at all.

    As others have said, positions at McDonalds and other fast food restaurants are aimed primarily at high school kids looking for a part time job.

    If you choose to settle and make a career out of it, then I have no sympathy.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    So far I've heard people say someone should ride a bike, should walk, but certainly they shouldn't be expecting to afford basic public transportation to get their job.
    My Dad did it. I did it. My brother does it.

    Why can't they exactly? Is public transport to work now a basic human civil right too?

    Anybody check lately what the average cost of a studio apartment is in large cities such as NY, LA, Chicago, SF, D.C., Miami, etc.? What does $600 get you?
    So in addition to public transit, being paid enough to live in the biggest cities is now also a basic human civil right? People cannot move to cheaper-to-live places, we must pay more to support their preferences?

    All the frankly ridiculous discussion about a minimum wage of $60K etc, is just another canard to avoid the question at hand. Is the minimum wage fairly adjusted or not?
    The minimum wage does not effect poverty, because any increase in wages costs results in other wages rising, which causes costs to rise, which means buyign power is not improved, which means the only material effect is inflation. (Jets5ever, of way back when hee at J.I., used to have epic discussions on this topic, ah, the good old days....)

    I find it interesting that the same folks who proudly blare on about the evil 1%, now cannot understand that our poor in the U.S. are still in the top 1% of the top 1% in the Global Economy.

    Funny how internationalism, globalization, universal human rights, etc. suddenly goes out the window when that is pointed out. All of a sudden, it's all about protectionism and nationalism and closed borders to keep cheap labor out.



    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MhNm4snZSb...employment.jpg[/QUOTE]

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    My Dad did it. I did it. My brother does it.

    Why can't they exactly? Is public transport to work now a basic human civil right too?



    So in addition to public transit, being paid enough to live in the biggest cities is now also a basic human civil right? People cannot move to cheaper-to-live places, we must pay more to support their preferences?



    The minimum wage does not effect poverty, because any increase in wages costs results in other wages rising, which causes costs to rise, which means buyign power is not improved, which means the only material effect is inflation. (Jets5ever, of way back when hee at J.I., used to have epic discussions on this topic, ah, the good old days....)

    I find it interesting that the same folks who proudly blare on about the evil 1%, now cannot understand that our poor in the U.S. are still in the top 1% of the top 1% in the Global Economy.

    Funny how internationalism, globalization, universal human rights, etc. suddenly goes out the window when that is pointed out. All of a sudden, it's all about protectionism and nationalism and closed borders to keep cheap labor out.



    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MhNm4snZSb...employment.jpg
    [/QUOTE]

    so just to be clear, in order for the unemployed to get a job, not only must they walk or ride a bike, but they have to move someplace else just to be able to avoid paying for public transportation? And where are the funds to move coming from? Oh, snap. Didn't think of that... Right. Brilliant. In other words, it's not acceptable for the poor to live in big cities, only little ones where the rents are low and jobs are in great supply... Right. Check. And we must ignore the costs of living in major urban areas because that doesn't fit the paradigm of MacDonalds which frankly probably would even work in Birmingham, Alabama, much less any other larger city.

    And meanwhile, you didn't address at all the fact that minimum wage is variable across the country (which would mean we should be able to see if your argument holds any weight re impact on overall economy) and I'm betting you couldn't guess off-hand without looking which states have the highest minimum wage (which trumps the federal rate if higher).

    I have to say that I'm finding "conservatives" among our forum much better at sniping about the evil poor and the hated Muslims and absolutely dismal at provided any genuine, even intelligent solutions. It's easy to dismantle, much harder to build something that works.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    so just to be clear, in order for the unemployed to get a job, not only must they walk or ride a bike, but they have to move someplace else just to be able to avoid paying for public transportation?
    If you can't afford a car or a bus, yes, you walk.

    In other words, it's not acceptable for the poor to live in big cities, only little ones where the rents are low and jobs are in great supply.
    It's up to them. Stay in the big city and not be able to afford it.

    Or move to a smaller location with a much reduced cost of living and perhaps have a better shot.

    And we must ignore the costs of living in major urban areas because that doesn't fit the paradigm of MacDonalds which frankly probably would even work in Birmingham, Alabama, much less any other larger city.
    If you dislike the cost of living in a place, you have two options. 1. make more money or work more hours. 2. Move.

    Seems simple enough. What is your proposed Option #3?

    And meanwhile, you didn't address at all the fact that minimum wage is variable across the country
    As it should be. And a ssupport for the "if you don't like it here, move elsewhere". After all, A McDonalds in one place is a McDonalds in all places.

    I'm betting you couldn't guess off-hand without looking which states have the highest minimum wage (which trumps the federal rate if higher).
    Of course not, I haven't had to care about the minimum wage since the day I turned 20 or so. Unlike those in the OP, I quickly found work better than flipping burgers (for example, I worked at a video store, a mattress store and a home improvement store at one point, all of which paid higher than minimum wage. None required any intelligence or special skills).

    I have to say that I'm finding "conservatives" among our forum much better at sniping about the evil poor and the hated Muslims and absolutely dismal at provided any genuine, even intelligent solutions.
    Perhaps I missed it, what was your solution to the problem in the OP again?

    It's easy to dismantle, much harder to build something that works.
    Funny, thats exactly what productive folks say about the poor. It's easy to complain and whine about how hard it is, much harder to sacrifice, work hard, work two or three jobs if needed, walk if needed, wait to go to school if needed, and struggle through till you can afford more by doing better/getting better work.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    If you can't afford a car or a bus, yes, you walk.



    It's up to them. Stay in the big city and not be able to afford it.

    Or move to a smaller location with a much reduced cost of living and perhaps have a better shot.



    If you dislike the cost of living in a place, you have two options. 1. make more money or work more hours. 2. Move.

    Seems simple enough. What is your proposed Option #3?



    As it should be. And a ssupport for the "if you don't like it here, move elsewhere". After all, A McDonalds in one place is a McDonalds in all places.



    Of course not, I haven't had to care about the minimum wage since the day I turned 20 or so. Unlike those in the OP, I quickly found work better than flipping burgers (for example, I worked at a video store, a mattress store and a home improvement store at one point, all of which paid higher than minimum wage. None required any intelligence or special skills).



    Perhaps I missed it, what was your solution to the problem in the OP again?



    Funny, thats exactly what productive folks say about the poor. It's easy to complain and whine about how hard it is, much harder to sacrifice, work hard, work two or three jobs if needed, walk if needed, wait to go to school if needed, and struggle through till you can afford more by doing better/getting better work.
    The minimum wage should be correlated to the CPI and Cost of Living of localities. In NYC it should be higher than it is in Cooperstown. Milton Friedman was correct in assessing that we must have an incentivized system to move people off welfare into work. Half-fare public transportation, employer based jobs programs that are supplemented by government assistance to create pathways for welfare recipients able to work, childcare credits/subsidies that are real not a few hundred a year on a tax form, improved access to medical care so that the choice isn't between Medicaid and no insurance at all (thank you, Obamacare). Legalization of most illicit drugs, which would cripple the underground economy of the ghetto and incentivize legitimate work. Help for single parents in poverty, which are probably the most stressed group. The point is: a program in a rural county in Virginia cannot be the same as a program in the Bronx. One size simply does not fit all.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    The minimum wage should be correlated to the CPI and Cost of Living of localities. In NYC it should be higher than it is in Cooperstown. Milton Friedman was correct in assessing that we must have an incentivized system to move people off welfare into work. Half-fare public transportation, employer based jobs programs that are supplemented by government assistance to create pathways for welfare recipients able to work, childcare credits/subsidies that are real not a few hundred a year on a tax form, improved access to medical care so that the choice isn't between Medicaid and no insurance at all (thank you, Obamacare). Legalization of most illicit drugs, which would cripple the underground economy of the ghetto and incentivize legitimate work. Help for single parents in poverty, which are probably the most stressed group. The point is: a program in a rural county in Virginia cannot be the same as a program in the Bronx. One size simply does not fit all.
    Bolded part, Racist? Why do you want to hurt minorities by crippling the underground economy of the Ghetto?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    The minimum wage should be correlated to the CPI and Cost of Living of localities. In NYC it should be higher than it is in Cooperstown.
    So in theory then, a Burger Flipper in NYC could be making $20.00/hour, whilst a Burger Flipper doing the same work in Tuscaloosa Alabama could be making $3.90/hour?

    Better yet, a burger flipper in NY could be making $20.00/hour while a 4-year degree hav'in professional in Tuscaloosa Alabama could also be making $20.00/hour.

    Interesting idea, not sure it would ever get the support it would need tbqh. I know I'd be pissed if I heard a burger flipper was making the same as me simply because he choose to live in NYC, and I choose (sacrificed) to live somewhere less expensive, and yet my sacrifice was actually held against me.

    This is one of the issues I think the pro-welfare side continuously fails to understand. Not everyone is happy to see their good decisons, hard work and sacrifice not only NOT rewarded in the tax code/legislation, but to see people who constantly make bad decsions, do not work a full 40 houir week (or work at all despite being able bodied), and who do not choose to sacrifice made equal fiscally with those who did.

    Milton Friedman was correct in assessing that we must have an incentivized system to move people off welfare into work.
    I certainly agree with that principle, aye.

    Half-fare public transportation
    You do understand that Public Transportation already operates at a massive loss (i.e. almost all subsidized), right? You want to reduce the fare revenue further based off income (an interesting difficulty operations wise), and increase the local jurisdictions costs (i.e. most mass transit operations is local paid, cap. improvement is grant paid, Fed/State/Local.)

    employer based jobs programs that are supplemented by government assistance to create pathways for welfare recipients able to work
    Example?

    childcare credits/subsidies that are real not a few hundred a year on a tax form
    More kids, more benefits? No negative repurcussions for choosing to have ten kids you cannot afford to support?

    improved access to medical care so that the choice isn't between Medicaid and no insurance at all (thank you, Obamacare).
    We'll see how that works.

    Legalization of most illicit drugs, which would cripple the underground economy of the ghetto and incentivize legitimate work
    Agreed.

    Help for single parents in poverty, which are probably the most stressed group.
    You've covered the Free/Subsidized Childcare, a point any working non-poor parent payign $1,000 to $2,000 a month to cover themselves will bristle at payign more taxes to pay for for poor folks, as you might imagine.

    The point is: a program in a rural county in Virginia cannot be the same as a program in the Bronx. One size simply does not fit all.
    One size does not fit all sounds alot like letting the States decide on these things. Which they do. But I would venture what you really want is federal top-down management of poverty, would that be correct? Remove the states power and authority to decide these issues, transfer ti to the Federal in a Nation-wide policy, and let the Feds mandate teh taxes that would pay for it? Is this close to what you're thinking, and if not, where have I gone amiss?
    Last edited by Churchill; 07-18-2013 at 04:34 PM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    So in theory then, a Burger Flipper in NYC could be making $20.00/hour, whilst a Burger Flipper doing the same work in Tuscaloosa Alabama could be making $3.90/hour?

    Better yet, a burger flipper in NY could be making $20.00/hour while a 4-year degree hav'in professional in Tuscaloosa Alabama could also be making $20.00/hour.

    Interesting idea, not sure it would ever get the support it would need tbqh. I know I'd be pissed if I heard a burger flipper was making the same as me simply because he choose to live in NYC, and I choose (sacrificed) to live somewhere less expensive, and yet my sacrifice was actually held against me.

    This is one of the issues I think the pro-welfare side continuously fails to understand. Not everyone is happy to see their good decisons, hard work and sacrifice not only NOT rewarded in the tax code/legislation, but to see people who constantly make bad decsions, do not work a full 40 houir week (or work at all despite being able bodied), and who do not choose to sacrifice made equal fiscally with those who did.



    I certainly agree with that principle, aye.



    You do understand that Public Transportation already operates at a massive loss (i.e. almost all subsidized), right? You want to reduce the fare revenue further based off income (an interesting difficulty operations wise), and increase the local jurisdictions costs (i.e. most mass transit operations is local paid, cap. improvement is grant paid, Fed/State/Local.)



    Example?



    More kids, more benefits? No negative repurcussions for choosing to have ten kids you cannot afford to support?



    We'll see how that works.



    Agreed.



    You've covered the Free/Subsidized Childcare, a point any working non-poor parent payign $1,000 to $2,000 a month to cover themselves will bristle at payign more taxes to pay for for poor folks, as you might imagine.



    One size does not fit all sounds alot like letting the States decide on these things. Which they do. But I would venture what you really want is federal top-down management of poverty, would that be correct? Remove the states power and authority to decide these issues, transfer ti to the Federal in a Nation-wide policy, and let the Feds mandate teh taxes that would pay for it? Is this close to what you're thinking, and if not, where have I gone amiss?
    Where did I mention federal top-down anything? I just argued for the exact opposite. Local rates tied to local economies (p.s. I hate to inform you but in the private sector you make considerably more in urban areas like NYC than you do in Lynchburg for the same job. So you might as well be pisssed off right now at capitalism. that's how it works.)

    I argued for local rates tied to local economies.

    I argued for a greater role for corporations to build job programs targeted to getting people off welfare. It's happening all over the place even now with companies like Home Depot and Citibank. It needs to be expanded and supported by government at every level. Potato likes to throw around the term 'society' well this is a societal problem and requires all sectors of our economy to build a vehicle for opportunity and reduce barriers.

    And I'd be happy with states playing the largest role as government in helping this to happen.

    P.S. NYC already has a half-fare program for the elderly and disabled. It should include welfare to work (time-limited) or people who are employed within a limited range just above the poverty line.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    Bolded part, Racist? Why do you want to hurt minorities by crippling the underground economy of the Ghetto?
    There are white ghettoes too. All over America. North Dakota has a terrible meth problem in small towns... just brutal... all white. Just one of thousands of examples.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    Where did I mention federal top-down anything?
    When you said the Minimum Wage should be determined by local cost of living. Teh onyl way that will happen is if it is forced on all States by the Federal. Otherwsie, the States will set minimum wage as they choose to (while meeting Federal requirements). The only way to get what you support is a federal, top-down, Minimum Wage law.

    (p.s. I hate to inform you but in the private sector you make considerably more in urban areas like NYC than you do in Lynchburg for the same job. So you might as well be pisssed off right now at capitalism. that's how it works.)
    What makes you think I work in Lynchburg? You do understand that Washington D.C. is every bit the Major City and expensive place to live that NYC is, right?

    It's also a different thing when it's free market at work, as opposed to a Federal mandated wage scale. As I keep saying, I am free to choose to work in NYC, DC or Lynchburg, as I choose.

    Your concept of minimum wage would force business to vastly overpay for many no-skill labor services, thus raising labor cost to the extreme. If you want your Big Mac to cost $32.00, by all means, why not open a business and simply DO what you say youw ant, and see how it works out?

    I think your plan would cause many big city business to go the way of Detroit atehr quickly.

    Also, I'd wager you (like DC) would only lay this burden upon the big businesed, and would codify in a thousand exceptions for political friends, small business, etc. Thats how big city politics works in America, you know.

    I argued for a greater role for corporations to build job programs
    And I asked for an example

    Whilst your finding one, can you explain how performing a pure public charity service like a "job program" on their own dime is doing justice to the shareholders the coporation exists to serve?

    Perhaps that should be done by Government as part of the education system, Adult Education say. All you have to do is convince a majority fo your local electorate that it's a good reason they should pay 10% more in taxes, and you can have it. Local/State Government at work.

    Potato likes to throw around the term 'society' well this is a societal problem and requires all sectors of our economy to build a vehicle for opportunity and reduce barriers.
    I disagree. It's a Government problem.

    P.S. NYC already has a half-fare program for the elderly and disabled. It should include welfare to work (time-limited) or people who are employed within a limited range just above the poverty line.
    Elderly/Diabled discount fare is very easy to manage. An income-based reduced fare is not, it's exceptionally hard to manage, enforce, etc.

    But if you want it, your local transportation agency is just that, local. Your vote controls those who control it, if you want it, you know what to do.
    Last edited by Churchill; 07-18-2013 at 05:54 PM.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    When you said the Minimum Wage should be determined by local cost of living. Teh onyl way that will happen is if it is forced on all States by the Federal. Otherwsie, the States will set minimum wage as they choose to. The only way to get what you support is a federal, top-down, Minimum Wage law.



    What makes you think I work in Lynchburg? You do understand that Washington D.C. is every bit the Major City and expensive place to live that NYC is, right?

    It's also a different thing when it's free market at work, as opposed to a Federal mandated wage scale. As I keep saying, I am free to choose to work in NYC, DC or Lynchburg, as I choose.

    Your concept of minimum wage would force business to vastly overpay for many no-skill labor services, thus raising labor cost to the extreme. If you want your Big Mac to cost $32.00, by all means, why not open a business and simply DO what you say youw ant, and see how it works out?

    I think your plan would cause many big city business to go the way of Detroit atehr quickly.

    Also, I'd wager you (like DC) would only lay this burden upon the big businesed, and would codify in a thousand exceptions for political friends, small business, etc. Thats how big city politics works in America, you know.



    And I asked for an example

    Whilst your finding one, can you explain how performing a pure public charity service like a "job program" on their own dime is doing justice to the shareholders the coporation exists to serve?

    Perhaps that should be done by Government as part of the education system, Adult Education say. All you have to do is convince a majority fo your local electorate that it's a good reason they should pay 10% more in taxes, and you can have it. Local/State Government at work.



    I disagree. It's a Government problem.



    Elderly/Diabled discount fare is very easy to manage. An income-based reduced fare is not, it's exceptionally hard to manage, enforce, etc.

    But if you want it, your local transportation agency is just that, local. Your vote controls those who control it, if you want it, you know what to do.
    Most states do have state-based minimum wage laws. They either equal or exceed the federal level. What would be required is a federal law stipulating how minimum wage would be determined. As mentioned numerous times, linked to a cost of living index or some other accepted benchmark that varies with locality.

    If corporations offer varying salary levels by location, why is it so farfetched to argue for minimum wage tied to location. It may be true that a MacDonalds hamburger will cost 50 cents more in NYC (probably already do) to make up the difference. Every restaurant in NY is more expensive for precisely the same reason. Expenses are much higher across the board in NY from lease rates to electricity to labor. Somehow NY hasn't filed for bankruptcy.

    You obviously aren't reading carefully. I mentioned two corporations among many that provide jobs programs - Home Depot and Citibank. There are numerous program just like this for homeless veterans who are unemployed, for example. Such programs should be expanded. They usually offer training as well.

    Corporations look for a variety of ways to write off such expenses and do quite well, not to mention that it helps their marketing and image in the community.

    And I think you're wrong about half-fare including people who are moving from welfare to employment but at low wages. That's exactly what agencies can easily assess to determine eligibility. As someone comes off public assistance, part of their incentive would be inclusion for let's say one year in a half fare program to assist in getting to work. That's a very positive use of tax dollars, if you ask me. Especially since it's offset by someone getting off PA and potentially becoming a tax-payer. Why is that bad?

    If this is exclusively a government problem, then we might as well become a centralized socialist economy. Businesses large and small simply don't opt out to the degree you imagine. Many do contribute to their communities and see the value of supporting jobs, education, and community services. Why shouldn't they?

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    Most states do have state-based minimum wage laws. They either equal or exceed the federal level. What would be required is a federal law stipulating how minimum wage would be determined. As mentioned numerous times, linked to a cost of living index or some other accepted benchmark that varies with locality.
    So we agree. The only way to get what you want is a top-down Federal mandate that foces States (all States) to have the same minimum wage calculation process. I.e. a Universal Federal Minimum Wage Law.

    If corporations offer varying salary levels by location, why is it so farfetched to argue for minimum wage tied to location.
    Simply. There is competition for skilled/educated labor. There is no competition for unskilled minimum wage labor.

    To convince a 4-Year College Graduate to tolerate the higher costs of NYC, you ahve to pay him more. That is not required for minimum-wage unskilled labor.

    It may be true that a MacDonalds hamburger will cost 50 cents more in NYC (probably already do) to make up the difference.
    Current minimum wage is in the 7-8$ range. If your idea were made law, in New York (one of the most expensive areas in the U.S., it would be far more than your low-ball $0.50. Hourly wages in NY (to get a "living wage") wold need to be closer to $15-20/hour, an almost doubling of costs per hours for labor, the largest costs of operations generally.

    So no, not $0.50 price increase. A $5.00 price increase, per burger. $12.00 Big Mac, hope you enjoy it!

    Every restaurant in NY is more expensive for precisely the same reason.
    You don;t get out mcuh do you? NY Restaurants are no more expensive, in the aggregate, than any other big city. You have a few ultra-high ends of course, in ratio to the large population, but avg. prices for a Steak are no different than most other places, including small cities.

    Also, Restaurants (sit down types) don't have to pay minimum wage to everyone, remember?



    I mentioned two corporations among many that provide jobs programs - Home Depot and Citibank. There are numerous program just like this for homeless veterans who are unemployed, for example. Such programs should be expanded. They usually offer training as well.
    You cited two companies, you did not explain anything as to what their programs do, or how they are funded/managed. I assumed you might know given your passion, but clearly you don't. No worries.

    Corporations look for a variety of ways to write off such expenses and do quite well, not to mention that it helps their marketing and image in the community.
    Write Off's? What is this, Sienfeld? PR value is one thing, sure, but no, "write off's" is not a motivation for a Corporation to do unsolicited charity work, Kramer.

    And I think you're wrong about half-fare including people who are moving from welfare to employment but at low wages.
    You'd be wrong.

    That's exactly what agencies can easily assess to determine eligibility. As someone comes off public assistance, part of their incentive would be inclusion for let's say one year in a half fare program to assist in getting to work. That's a very positive use of tax dollars, if you ask me. Especially since it's offset by someone getting off PA and potentially becoming a tax-payer. Why is that bad?
    You have literally no idea what you're talking about here. A pie in the sky handout idea without any care or concern for the difficulties in the real world for how it would be managed, administered or enforced, or paid for, all for the promise of some non-defined "social benefit" to a non-defined group of "poor".

    So typical. This is how the free cellphone program came to be, and is just as stupid.

    Again, if you cannot afford transport, get off you worthless unskilled ass and ****ing walk.

    If this is exclusively a government problem, then we might as well become a centralized socialist economy.
    I wondered when you'd finally get around to saying this out loud. I have no doubt you'd prefer such a system.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    So we agree. The only way to get what you want is a top-down Federal mandate that foces States (all States) to have the same minimum wage calculation process. I.e. a Universal Federal Minimum Wage Law.



    Simply. There is competition for skilled/educated labor. There is no competition for unskilled minimum wage labor.

    To convince a 4-Year College Graduate to tolerate the higher costs of NYC, you ahve to pay him more. That is not required for minimum-wage unskilled labor.



    Current minimum wage is in the 7-8$ range. If your idea were made law, in New York (one of the most expensive areas in the U.S., it would be far more than your low-ball $0.50. Hourly wages in NY (to get a "living wage") wold need to be closer to $15-20/hour, an almost doubling of costs per hours for labor, the largest costs of operations generally.

    So no, not $0.50 price increase. A $5.00 price increase, per burger. $12.00 Big Mac, hope you enjoy it!



    You don;t get out mcuh do you? NY Restaurants are no more expensive, in the aggregate, than any other big city. You have a few ultra-high ends of course, in ratio to the large population, but avg. prices for a Steak are no different than most other places, including small cities.

    Also, Restaurants (sit down types) don't have to pay minimum wage to everyone, remember?





    You cited two companies, you did not explain anything as to what their programs do, or how they are funded/managed. I assumed you might know given your passion, but clearly you don't. No worries.



    Write Off's? What is this, Sienfeld? PR value is one thing, sure, but no, "write off's" is not a motivation for a Corporation to do unsolicited charity work, Kramer.



    You'd be wrong.



    You have literally no idea what you're talking about here. A pie in the sky handout idea without any care or concern for the difficulties in the real world for how it would be managed, administered or enforced, or paid for, all for the promise of some non-defined "social benefit" to a non-defined group of "poor".

    So typical. This is how the free cellphone program came to be, and is just as stupid.

    Again, if you cannot afford transport, get off you worthless unskilled ass and ****ing walk.



    I wondered when you'd finally get around to saying this out loud. I have no doubt you'd prefer such a system.
    You're frankly an ass. You've decided what I believe so the bottom line is that even when I mention the word centralist in a negative sense, you claim it means I want that... just utterly stupid and self-serving. I'm done.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    You're frankly an ass. I'm done.


    In a way, I'm glad you're "done". Going to the effort to address your posts item by item to try and fully address point-by-point the issues at hand, only get back what are basicly non-replies that touch (barely) on one or two items in a twenty-item discussion is just tiresome.

    For ****s sake, sorry I din't put a smily on that last line so you'd know it was tongue in cheek, guess we both miss the humour in our seriousness once in a while, eh?

    Have a good evening. We'll see you again when your sandy vag heals.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post


    In a way, I'm glad you're "done". Going to the effort to address your posts item by item to try and fully address point-by-point the issues at hand, only get back what are basicly non-replies that touch (barely) on one or two items in a twenty-item discussion is just tiresome.

    For ****s sake, sorry I din't put a smily on that last line so you'd know it was tongue in cheek, guess we both miss the humour in our seriousness once in a while, eh?

    Have a good evening. We'll see you again when your sandy vag heals.
    Sandy Vag is a great name for an all girl metal band!


    BTW....how do you do multiple quotes anyway...I am a fail.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    What year was this?
    1985-1986

    It didn't pay the full amount; I had to take out loans also.

    Why?

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post

    I have to say that I'm finding "conservatives" among our forum much better at sniping about the evil poor and the hated Muslims and absolutely dismal at provided any genuine, even intelligent solutions. It's easy to dismantle, much harder to build something that works.
    There's nothing to build, and conservatives have proposed the same solution in every post, some with slightly different wording. Here it is:

    Lift yourself up. Work hard. Improve yourself. Get a better job. Rely on yourself, not others.

    Perhaps you've just willfully ignored this.
    Last edited by quantum; 07-19-2013 at 12:37 PM.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    Sandy Vag is a great name for an all girl metal band!
    Indeed. I like LiL, alot, I really enjoy our discussions, just wish he wouldn't get so frustrated. It's just the interweb after all.

    BTW....how do you do multiple quotes anyway...I am a fail.
    Manually.

    Select the text you wish to address, highlight it, and click the "quote" control

    Write your point-reply. Then move on to the next point and repeat.

    At the end, you just have to make sure your tags all match correctly, often requiring you to type one {QUOTE} or {/QUOTE} in manually to make sure it all works.

    I find point-by-point to be the best way to fully answer someone, because I don't like wall-o-text replies that miss half the points someone went to :effort: to type up and post.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by quantum View Post
    1985-1986

    It didn't pay the full amount; I had to take out loans also.

    Why?
    Was just curious - with loans it makes sense.

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