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Thread: BR: Root Cause of Geno Dropping and QBs

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Did you watch ESPN or NFLN leading up to the draft?
    Did you?

    Because then you'd know that the Bills didn't have 16th pick "leading up to the draft."



    .

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Did you watch ESPN or NFLN leading up to the draft?
    I watched plenty of draft coverage that's why I'm asking where/who gave him a 3rd round grade because I didn't see it.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by cant wait View Post
    I watched plenty of draft coverage that's why I'm asking where/who gave him a 3rd round grade because I didn't see it.
    he got it after the jets picked him. if the eagles took him he'd have a mid first round grade.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Consensus was before the draft that if Geno got past the Bills @ 16 that he could plummet and that is exactly what happened. Teams in the bottom half of the first round draft usually have an average-to-excellent QB situation.

    Historically teams have "reached" for QBs b.c of the importance of the position. Just so happens that many teams at the top of the first round did not feel that he was worth picking in that spot. Geno is by no means a can't miss prospect. Scouts were concerned with the system he played in and if his skills could translate. He racked up a ton of yardage and TDs on relatively easy throws and was not nearly as accurate when throwing down the field. Also, he had a pretty rough second half to his senior season and a dismal bowl game performance in bad weather.

    Basically Geno got picked where he should have gotten picked. I heard plenty of scouts and analysts give him a 2nd or 3rd round grade. If he plays well and becomes our franchise QB nobody is going to care where he was picked. If he doesn't, all we did was take a chance with a 2nd round pick and I can't fault the Jets for doing that. We need a QB and I am one of the fans that advocate drafting one every single year until we find one.
    Are you sure about that, or are you just repeating what you've heard? Because Geno is accurate when he rips it down field.

    http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/1...le-in-accuracy

  5. #25
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    So they are saying that he does not have small hands? Phew! That's a relief then.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by cant wait View Post
    I watched plenty of draft coverage that's why I'm asking where/who gave him a 3rd round grade because I didn't see it.
    Unfortunately I did not DVR every episode of "Path to the Draft" or ESPN draft coverage so I can't show you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeejet22 View Post
    Did you?

    Because then you'd know that the Bills didn't have 16th pick "leading up to the draft."

    .
    Jeez. I should have said on draft day once the Bills didn't pick him there was a chance for him to plummet. But that also was the belief before the draft that if he got past a certain point he would continue to drop.

    Quote Originally Posted by detectivekimble View Post
    Are you sure about that, or are you just repeating what you've heard? Because Geno is accurate when he rips it down field.

    http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/1...le-in-accuracy
    Seems like the author of the article may have cherry-picked a little.

    To explore this idea, I observed 8 games from Geno’s 2012 campaign. Those games were Texas, Texas Tech, Maryland, Baylor, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Iowa State, and Kansas. I used the YouTube videos of Geno Smith vs. insert opponent here in my research. The goal of this research was relatively simple
    I also remember watching guys like Mayock (who likely watched every one of his games) discuss him missing open receivers and not being as accurate as they would like on some of the finesse throws. Again, I actually liked the pick. I was only trying to explain some of the reasons why he may have dropped in the draft.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Unfortunately I did not DVR every episode of "Path to the Draft" or ESPN draft coverage so I can't show you.





    I also remember watching guys like Mayock (who likely watched every one of his games) discuss him missing open receivers and not being as accurate as they would like on some of the finesse throws. Again, I actually liked the pick. I was only trying to explain some of the reasons why he may have dropped in the draft.
    Oh, you mean the same Mayock who had Smith ranked as a first rounder and his first or second ranked QB


    Funny thing about Mike the hypocrite... I watched the entire two rounds of the draft and the ONLY two players that were selected in which Mayock ran film of lowlights as opposed to the usual highlight package they always run were

    Dee Milliner (who he had in the top five in his mock)--- one or two game highlights BUT an extensive video of him dropping the ball at the ALL IMPORTANT February combine

    AND

    Geno Smith (who he had as a sure first rounder in his mock) throwing all kinds of incompletes. Must have been hard to come up with that one even for Mike the Hypocrite... since Smith had roughly a high sixties completion percentage at WVU for his entire college career


    THAT Mike Mayock... quite obvious why DeeDeeNEPats would run with his analysis

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Unfortunately I did not DVR every episode of "Path to the Draft" or ESPN draft coverage so I can't show you.
    Okay so some analyst that you've never heard of on a show that you can't remember said geno was a 3rd round pick. Sounds like a reliable source to me

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by cant wait View Post
    Okay so some analyst that you've never heard of on a show that you can't remember said geno was a 3rd round pick. Sounds like a reliable source to me
    Whatever bro. Like I said, I LIKE THE PICK!! But that doesn't change some of the things that I heard/read leading up to the draft and on draft day that may or may not have been reasons for him falling in the draft. And that was the point of my post. I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with any of the analysts, I was merely listing some of the stuff that was being said about Geno. Capiche?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by JumbalayaJet View Post
    We don't really know that yet, even with the worst QB in the league.

    Hope is eternal, and it doesn't sound like Geno will start this year. I'm really tired of waiting til next year. I don't care if we go 1-15, Mountaneer or bust.
    I think we needed a QB, because barring a miracle, Sanchez is gone after this year. And if we didn't have a QB, then we would either have to overpay for a veteran ala Raiders for Flynn, or be forced to pick a QB and insert him immediately even if he's not ready like we had to with Sanchez because there is no one else there.

    Atleast in this case, there is hope that Smith can learn and be decent, so we wouldn't be forced to start a QB as soon as we pick him, unless he earns it.

    I hope Smith beats Sanchez out in the competition, because it helps out the team better in the long term, but I don't want Smith to just get the job for free. If he can't beat out Sanchez, then he deserves to sit on the sideline and learn, and eventually he'll get his shot this season. But Smith running away with the job will most likely help the franchise the best moving forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentucky Jet View Post
    We have many Suckchez fans here . They hate every QB mentioned for the Jets! They'd hate Andrew Luck if he was available to us!
    I think it's the media to be honest. We didn't hear anything bad about Smith, until he dropped, and the Jets were rumored to be trying to trade up for him. Until then, it was surprising that he was dropping, but as soon as we picked him, it's shocking and a waste of a pick.

    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Consensus was before the draft that if Geno got past the Bills @ 16 that he could plummet and that is exactly what happened. Teams in the bottom half of the first round draft usually have an average-to-excellent QB situation.

    Historically teams have "reached" for QBs b.c of the importance of the position. Just so happens that many teams at the top of the first round did not feel that he was worth picking in that spot. Geno is by no means a can't miss prospect. Scouts were concerned with the system he played in and if his skills could translate. He racked up a ton of yardage and TDs on relatively easy throws and was not nearly as accurate when throwing down the field. Also, he had a pretty rough second half to his senior season and a dismal bowl game performance in bad weather.

    Basically Geno got picked where he should have gotten picked. I heard plenty of scouts and analysts give him a 2nd or 3rd round grade. If he plays well and becomes our franchise QB nobody is going to care where he was picked. If he doesn't, all we did was take a chance with a 2nd round pick and I can't fault the Jets for doing that. We need a QB and I am one of the fans that advocate drafting one every single year until we find one.
    I heard a lot of mid first round grades for him based on skill, but early first projections based on positional value. It's evident that most people thought he would go pretty high in the draft, hence why he was invited to the green room to begin with. It's usually shocking when someone who was invited there, drops ala Rogers and Claussen did in years past.

    I think the value in the pick was amazingly good, because even a league average QB elevates our team substantially at this point. I see the QB as the most important piece in an offense, so I would rather have that, than getting WRs, because now if they deem Geno to be good, they can find WRs that fit his style as best as possible. Sort of like, I'd worry about the engine first, before the battery.

    I heard that if Geno got past the Jets, he was dropping like a rock before the draft, but that some team would trade up to get him. I think Geno is gone for sure to the Chiefs, if they didn't trade for Smith. He fits with Reid's philosophy of having an accurate QB that can be mobile. But having spent the 2nd rd pick on Smith, they couldn't do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jetster View Post
    I think there were 2 factors in the Geno fall.
    I agree with everything you wrote, plus I believe because Luck & RG3 were such studs the year before, their outrageous talent made Geno look much worse in comparison.
    I mean look at what Luck did last year! Look at RG3!
    Those guys are what top draft picks look like, not Sanchez at 5.

    Plus the only reason why we are having this discussion at all on a 2nd round flyer on a QB that played quite well on a team with a bad Oline & horrific defense, ( this wasn't Sanchez at USC), and did it for 4 years, not 16 games, is because its THE NYJETS that drafted him!!!!!!
    Come on people!
    Are you telling me that if the Jags or KC, or the Browns came out of this draft with Milliner, Richardson & Geno Smith in the 2nd it wouldn't have lauded as
    A 2013 greatest heist in the draft?
    Hating on the Jets is a sport! It's news folks when Cimini has another bad thing to report.
    Any other team in the NFL gets Geno where the Jets did in the 2nd round & it's a stroke of wonderful luck.
    All those knob jobs over at ESPN would have been giving them AAA for being so clever to get top players at their position, AND Geno in the 2nd!
    It's the NY Jets stupid
    Yeah, I think one of the aspects that's missing in all of this, is he limited his interceptions in a "gimmick" system, that had every defense playing the pass. He didn't have a running game at all, and his OL was horrible. There is a play in the Oklahoma game, where he's throwing from his own endzone. And the RG just fell backwards at the snap, defensive guy didn't even touch him, and Smith still got a long completion. And from the game tapes that are on Youtube, atleast three of his INTs were of the tipped variety, that went right to the defender as well last year.

    If say Jags picked him, he'd be touted as an amazing move by Caldwell, he who refused to take on Tebow, waited patiently to have the top QB fall into his lap, and hailed as a hero. The negativity didn't start until there were rumors that the Jets were looking to trade up for him. When Noalecki (Don't remember his name well) had that piece about Geno being a terrible teammate, pretty much everyone bashed him saying that was completely wrong. As soon as the Jets picked him? Those same people are referencing that as evidence of Geno being a bad pick.

    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    No one ever said Geno was an elite prospect. The guys you mention would be worth 2 #1 picks. Geno is a mid to late first round talent, based on the fact that he's a little short, and hasn't run a pro style offense.
    I don't know if the value of running pro style is as important as it was in the past. Pro-style itself is changing, with more and more teams going shotgun and hurry up. I read that there were like 8 or so teams in 2011 that ran more plays out of shotgun than under center, and I'm sure that number went up last year, and most of this includes the more prolific offenses in the game like Saints, Lions, Pats, and Packers.

    I think more and more teams will adapt to a shotgun offense, because it lets the QB see better, and focus on passing, than his timing on the dropback.

    Quote Originally Posted by BRONX JET View Post
    EJ Manuel will be an idiotic selection if he doesn't pan out. Not the case with Geno.
    Manuel is a good player, and if we had gotten him with the second round pick, I probably could understand it. He definitely has potential and size. I read a bunch about him because I was sure Geno would be gone, and the more I read from FSU, the more it was clear that they limited his playbook as much as possible because he just couldn't handle the more complex calls. I think it was their beat writer or someone that expressed it. Also, that after his shoulder injury, he wasn't an effective runner because he seemed scared of contact.

    But the potential is there for him to be a stud. He has the arm and mobility, but he also has a very high bust rate IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by kennyo7 View Post
    Thats actually a big deal. Especially when he was throwing to two receivers who also were drafted (one in the top 10)

    The other question is who did Geno actually beat last year? I mean besides a 9-4 Texas team his wins came against powerhouses like Marshall, James Madison, Maryland, 1-11 Kansas, Iowa State and Baylor and then played terribly in the Bowl game against a very average Syracuse team
    Yeah, he had a good WR core, but I think it's a two way street. I doubt both of them turn out to be as good as they are, if a QB of Geno's caliber isn't there. And, do we discount RG3 for having I believe 3 of his WRs (Wright, Gordon, and Williams) all picked in what amounts to the top 2 rounds of the draft, while also having his RB picked as well? I think we'd argue that RG3 was also responsible to a certain extent in getting them marked up, which is the same case to a lesser extent with Geno.

    I think that's a problem with the team, because besides the Kansas State game, I think he had good offensive stats in the other games, but his defense was horrendous. It's hard to win, when your defense is consistently putting you behind, and then teams know they can drop everyone back because WV didn't have a running game. The lack of a quality OL meant that the defenses were still getting pressure even when they were dropping the LBs back, so it wasn't like he got all day to dissect the defense.

    The Syracuse game is hard to judge because of the weather. It's hard to throw in brutal cold and windy conditions, and even then he wasn't horrible. 200 yards, no INT, 2 TD, 67% completion isn't bad. But he had to do a lot of checkdowns because again defense was playing back with a big lead as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    The fact teams passes on Geno I dont believe had anything to do with his talent level. He had a questionable attitude going into the draft and reports where his interviews did not go well. Rumors where also he wasnt liked in his own locker room. Teams want a QB that will be dedicated to the team and I just dont think GMs saw that in Geno. We have seen QBs drop for stuff like that before no one wants to have anther Vince Young on there hands. In the same perspective we have also seen guys like McNabb though. I dont think Geno will be that bad but yeah there is definitely a concern IMO. I really dont think his draft night tweets helped at all ether. His agent should have told him day one stay off tweeter and dont make any comments you dont want posted. He is just one of those foot in mouth guys. I have had people tell me that didnt have an effect but I cant see how it didnt when he was already on the bubble. You dont normally see that in a QB. All things aside he has shown he is trying and is maturing. Seems to be a lot of people tagged him for just a lot of little minor things. He has never had big issues. I really feel Barkley and Glennon falling was more confusing.
    Yeah, but there were no real rumors of his bad behavior up until he fell. The people who invite these players to the Green Room, are pretty well connected, so you would think they'd know there was a good chance Geno was going to go in the first round, otherwise it serves no purpose for them to invite him and then just watch him drop.

    Look at Manziel, he was almost suspended for the entirety of last year, until his coach stepped up for him, has one problem after another on social media, doesn't even go to classes on campus, yet every time we talk about next year's draft, there he is at or near the top of the conversation. Do people dissect that he played behind the best OL in college and one of the best in recent memory? Or his size? Geno looks like a saint next to this guy. Or that his OC was also a disciple of the Air Raid system under Holgersen?

    The diva news crept up more because a lot of the same people pushing him as a diva also had him going in the top 10 of the draft, and explaining away why he fell, as to his diva like personality makes them look less foolish. If they knew, he was going to be a problem personality wise, why project him so high? Add in the fact, that anything that can make the Jets look as incompetent as possible is a ratings grabber, so they can run with it as much as you want.


    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Rico View Post
    The reason why Geno dropped and Sanchez didn't was because of how their teams did during the season. Geno's team tanked, lost like 4 or 5 in a row, and the Trojans went on to the Rose Bowl. Sanchez threw for 400+ yards and 5 TDs against a supposedly stout Penn State defense. Sanchez had a great pro day, and his leadership impressed a lot of people. Geno skipped the senior bowl.

    It doesn't make sense to blame this on other teams already having a quarterback. If they really wanted Geno, they wouldn't have wasted picks on guys like Alex Smith and Matt Flynn (who couldn't even beat a rookie in training camp). Hell, the Jets passed on him TWICE, and we needed a quarterback badly. He was and is a value pick, not someone we went after.

    Now, anything can happen at the pro level. Sanchez obviously isn't good enough. Hopefully Geno can be.
    I think you are right about the team performance. If he had a defense that could stop a nosebleed, he would've gone much higher, because his performance in most of the games he lost weren't that bad.

    He did have a great Pro-day, I remember the next day, hearing a bunch of reports about how teams in the bottom half of the top ten (us, bills) would have to trade up to get Geno. What he didn't do, was the combine throwing drills, or do other marketing stuff like Sports Science, or the Senior Bowl. I think that's what helped raised Manuel's stock, because he was the best QB at the Senior Bowl, the most talented at the combine, and a high scorer on stuff like Sports Science. That is the most likely reason Geno fired his agents, because he didn't get much exposure out there, so teams had to rely on the tapes. His agents line of thinking most likely was that, his numbers are so great, that the tapes will speak for themselves, without accounting the fact that teams may or may not know how much to discount these stats due to the offense they ran.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gangrene View Post
    I'm with you ... I hope I'm wrong but I don't think Geno has "it"

    Poor leadership qualities, the best wide receiver tandem in college football last year, gimmick offense, stats skewed towards short passes , poor accuracy on long passes - nothing suggests that he is going to be special.

    Manuel has accuracy issues but as a leader, he is perceived as dynamic, exciting and charasmatic. If Marrone can't fix his mechanics Manuel will bust but his up side is what made the Bills pull the trigger - John Gruden was enamoured with Manuel's intangibles, his energy, personality, leadership.

    Milke Glennon while immobile is the most accurate long ball qb in the class, he would have been my lottery pick at finding a qb in this year's draft class.
    I don't think he had the best WR tandem in college at all. Best, is most likely Barkley with Lee and Woods, second would be Clemson with Watkins and Hopkins, and third would be Bray with Patterson and Hunter. He had an excellent WR in Austin, but I think Geno Smith helped Bailey moreso than Bailey helping Geno Smith. Then throw in the fact, he had a terrible OL, a non existent RB, and a terrible defense. It wasn't like he went into a stacked situation and lived off of his surrounding talent, ala what most QBs do at USC. It was basically Geno Smith has a great game, and we have a shot, he has a good game, and we're losing.

    Manuel has all the tools, he just never jumped out at me on tape. He's a project, and someone I wouldn't have minded in the second round, but I do think he's a reach at 16, and I do rate Geno ahead of him. He is someone that did have a good defense and RB but was wildly inconsistent. He has upside but he also has considerable downside as well.

    Glennon, I wasn't a big fan of, because he just wasn't as accurate and made tons of mistakes. He has a great arm, but that was pretty much it with him. No mobility at all and lack of accuracy is concerning. He looked horrible at the Senior Bowl too.

  11. #31
    DDNY - Dont want to pile on just to do it, but again, the misinformation about Geno is staggering.

    You said "Dismal bowl game performance".

    He was 19-28 201 yards 2 tds 0 ints in a snow storm.

    He was judged to have a bad game because his team lost - but was he responsible for giving up 369 yards on the ground? Because thats how much Syracuse rushed for.

    He had a "bad end of the season" not because of his game itself, but because his team lost. And yes, i get it, QBs are judged by wins and losses more then stats, but cmon, look at the score of the games (and yes he struggled vs Kstate and Texas Tech).

    His defense gave up 49, 55, 39, 55, and 50 points during the losing streak - tough to pin those losses on a guy who threw 5 picks total during the streak.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Unfortunately I did not DVR every episode of "Path to the Draft" or ESPN draft coverage so I can't show you.



    Jeez. I should have said on draft day once the Bills didn't pick him there was a chance for him to plummet. But that also was the belief before the draft that if he got past a certain point he would continue to drop.



    Seems like the author of the article may have cherry-picked a little.



    I also remember watching guys like Mayock (who likely watched every one of his games) discuss him missing open receivers and not being as accurate as they would like on some of the finesse throws. Again, I actually liked the pick. I was only trying to explain some of the reasons why he may have dropped in the draft.
    That's not why he dropped. In fact, he didn't drop because of any of his physical attributes -- arm strength, accuracy, athleticism, etc. Guys who can sling it drop sometimes. Remember Ryan Mallet? His falling and falling had nothing to do with his physical skills. Guys like Ponder and Locker aren't even close to as good as passers as Smith or Mallet, yet they were first rounders.

    You can make a highlight reel of any QB missing throws. That's just Mayock looking to explain a situation he has no idea about. I have no idea why anyone on this site would use Mayock. The guy is an idiot. He had Blaine Gabbert ranked higher than Cam Newton. Sounds like the kind of guy who knows his QBs.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    DDNY - Dont want to pile on just to do it, but again, the misinformation about Geno is staggering.

    You said "Dismal bowl game performance".

    He was 19-28 201 yards 2 tds 0 ints in a snow storm.

    He was judged to have a bad game because his team lost - but was he responsible for giving up 369 yards on the ground? Because thats how much Syracuse rushed for.

    He had a "bad end of the season" not because of his game itself, but because his team lost. And yes, i get it, QBs are judged by wins and losses more then stats, but cmon, look at the score of the games (and yes he struggled vs Kstate and Texas Tech).

    His defense gave up 49, 55, 39, 55, and 50 points during the losing streak - tough to pin those losses on a guy who threw 5 picks total during the streak.
    You're not piling on. We are just having conversation. I do think that some people have been too harsh on Geno but I am not sure if I would call in misinformation.

    Did you watch the bowl game? I did. At best, it was mixed. The boxscore will not tell the whole story. Bailey racked up like 120 yards on three big catches (two were screens I think). He also gave up two safeties one of which was on an awful sack and the other was intentional grounding. Those speak to decision making and like it or not everything is magnified in bowl games. Geno benefited from having a record-setting performance in the Orange Bowl the year before so you have to take the good with the bad.

    I agree that his defense did let him down but I watched some of those games and in the Texas Tech and Kansas State games their offense looked like ours. And Geno looked lost at times.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    You're not piling on. We are just having conversation. I do think that some people have been too harsh on Geno but I am not sure if I would call in misinformation.

    Did you watch the bowl game? I did. At best, it was mixed. The boxscore will not tell the whole story. Bailey racked up like 120 yards on three big catches (two were screens I think). He also gave up two safeties one of which was on an awful sack and the other was intentional grounding. Those speak to decision making and like it or not everything is magnified in bowl games. Geno benefited from having a record-setting performance in the Orange Bowl the year before so you have to take the good with the bad.

    I agree that his defense did let him down but I watched some of those games and in the Texas Tech and Kansas State games their offense looked like ours. And Geno looked lost at times.
    I agree I did watch the game and Geno definitely underperformed as the safeties were bad and he did miss a few WRs, but the thing I want to focus on with him is the turnovers.

    We are gonna put him on a team with an above average Oline, with 3-4 good RBs with varying skill sets, and most likely with a great defense. I want him behind center with a limited playbook with him throwing screens and slants with a few deep throws downfield and most importantly not throwing picks.

    The fumbles worry me as ive said, but with this team, we won 6 games while turning over the ball at a disastrous rate. If we can cut that down, with more accuracy from the QB, and a RB that can actually cut and make people miss, I think we might be in very good shape.

  15. #35
    The more I think about Geno's bowl game the more I look back at Sanchez's playoff game vs the Pats.

    Geno went 19-28 201 yards 2 tds 0 ints in a snow storm.

    Sanchez went 16-25 194 yards 3 tds 0 ints in the freezing cold.

    Yet Geno failed in that game because they lost and we all (myself 100% included) thought we had the next great QB after that game.

    I guess the difference between "hes just a 2nd rounder" and "the next joe montana" is just a great defensive performance.

  16. #36
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    Mark was excellent in that playoff game and he made great decisions as well as some great throws including the TD to Holmes which was one of the best passes I have ever seen. We didn't put the game on his shoulders and didn't ask him to throw 40 times. Geno basically committed two turnovers with those safeties in the bowl game so that is a pretty significant difference.

  17. #37
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    and Marky buttfumbled away the last two seasons with 52 turnovers and Smith didn't

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by cant wait View Post
    Who gave geno a 3rd round grade? Oh that's right nobody
    That's right , I forgot ... You were in all the war rooms ... Child please

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    The more I think about Geno's bowl game the more I look back at Sanchez's playoff game vs the Pats.

    Geno went 19-28 201 yards 2 tds 0 ints in a snow storm.

    Sanchez went 16-25 194 yards 3 tds 0 ints in the freezing cold.

    Yet Geno failed in that game because they lost and we all (myself 100% included) thought we had the next great QB after that game.

    I guess the difference between "hes just a 2nd rounder" and "the next joe montana" is just a great defensive performance.
    Or a better QB

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Mark was excellent in that playoff game and he made great decisions as well as some great throws including the TD to Holmes which was one of the best passes I have ever seen. We didn't put the game on his shoulders and didn't ask him to throw 40 times. Geno basically committed two turnovers with those safeties in the bowl game so that is a pretty significant difference.
    +5

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