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Thread: To the crowd buying into media rhetoric "Sanchez has been coddled..."

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funaz View Post
    No franchise QBs are ever given competition. Name any great QB and then name me their fearsome backup that pushed them to keep their job. It doesn't happen. When you draft a QB #5 overall in the old CBA and were committed to for 50 million dollars you have to give them every chance to succeed.

    Flacco, Ryan, Alex Smith, Stafford, Bradford all QBs drafted before the wage scale all given every opportunity to succeed or as we say "coddled".

    You can say Sanchez sucks, but to say he needed competition to be better is moronic.
    Exactly. I am not sure what people expected the Jets to do. When you use a high draft pick and give that much GUARANTEED money to QB, you make a 4 year commitment to that player. Can anyone name a QB that was taken in the top 5 and given that amount of guaranteed money that wasnt "handed" the job??

  2. #62
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    As to the opposite of being coddled, and to be fair, Drew Brees didn't become Drew Brees (in San Diego), until they drafted Philip Rivers and there was competition in San Diego. Then he shot up from there.

    Having Payton as your head coach doesn't hurt, but before his great year in San Diego, fans wanted to run him out of town as well.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funaz View Post
    No franchise QBs are ever given competition.
    Good thing we're talking about Sanchez and not franchise QBs.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    You're right. I forgot to add Clemens. But he didn't push Mark either. They could have brought someone in that was going to challenge him and that he could have learned a thing or two from. Kind of like what the Giants did with Eli and Warner. Brunell could have been that guy but he and Mark just became buddies and Brunell was just hanging on for a paycheck. I am not sure how much he was teaching Mark.

    I do agree with what Jet Nut touched on. Having a "mentor" or challenger is not a requirement. Mark should have been able to succeed without one. These guys should be able to motivate themselves.

    Then there is the whole thing with Rex calling him the "Sanchize". There are just so many different things that are part of reason why Sanchez hasn't worked out. I put some of the blame on him and some of it on the Jets. But how we got to this point doesn't really matter anymore. The damage is done. What we have now is a sh*tty QB that needs to go.
    Rex did that jokingly AFTER the press started calling him that. It was a jab at the press, not a term of affection. Lets not turn this into something it wasn't.

    If you need a backup QB that scares you by the idea that he could take your job, you aren't starting NFL QB material. Every QB on that level has to believe he's the best friggen QB in the NFL, not just his team. This is just some moronic theory that people who can't just admit that the guy doesn't have it come up with to explain why someone didn't make it.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funaz View Post
    No franchise QBs are ever given competition. Name any great QB and then name me their fearsome backup that pushed them to keep their job. It doesn't happen. When you draft a QB #5 overall in the old CBA and were committed to for 50 million dollars you have to give them every chance to succeed.

    Flacco, Ryan, Alex Smith, Stafford, Bradford all QBs drafted before the wage scale all given every opportunity to succeed or as we say "coddled".

    You can say Sanchez sucks, but to say he needed competition to be better is moronic.
    Joe Montana.

    But your point is well-taken. It doesn't usually occur. But Sanchez needed to either be held accountable by the coaches or by having someone behind him that threatened his position. Neither happened.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Joe Montana.

    But your point is well-taken. It doesn't usually occur. But Sanchez needed to either be held accountable by the coaches or by having someone behind him that threatened his position. Neither happened.
    Montana?

    His rookie year he came in for DeBerg to finish off drives. DeBerg would get the 9'rs into the red zone and Montana, because he as a threat to run, would come in. This was back in the day when rookies didnt start, Walsh gave him more responsibility than others gave rookies.

    He was never pushed by a back up. Young was brought in as his replacement.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Nut View Post
    If you need a backup QB that scares you by the idea that he could take your job, you aren't starting NFL QB material. Every QB on that level has to believe he's the best friggen QB in the NFL, not just his team. This is just some moronic theory that people who can't just admit that the guy doesn't have it come up with to explain why someone didn't make it.
    I agree with that. These guys should be self-motivated. And all we ever heard about Mark was that he was a hard worker. So maybe he just sucks and was never going to be good no matter who we put around him. Or maybe he ceiling is a game manager on a great team.

    The problem is that it is obvious that Rex is not a QB-friendly HC and the Jets did do some things that stunted his growth. So that is why some people search for a reason why he has regressed. That is why I put the blame on both the Jets and Sanchez and why I wanted all three (Tanny, Rex and Sanchez) gone after last year.
    Last edited by DDNYjets; 07-25-2013 at 12:31 PM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Nut View Post
    Montana?

    His rookie year he came in for DeBerg to finish off drives. DeBerg would get the 9'rs into the red zone and Montana, because he as a threat to run, would come in. This was back in the day when rookies didnt start, Walsh gave him more responsibility than others gave rookies.

    He was never pushed by a back up. Young was brought in as his replacement.
    I wasn't talking about early in his career. I was referring to later in his career when Young was breathing down his neck for a few years before he left for KC.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    Wrong

    Palmer was out of football the year Dalton was drafted, he was given the job

    Kaepernick was in his second season. Smith was traded this off-season, Kaepernick has no competition heading into his first pre-season as a starting QB.

    Flynn? Are you serious? He's never been a starter...

    Try harder.
    You are hilarious. It was SMITH not being coddled by them drafting and letting kapernick take the job you dim wit. Totally unlike the jets in which we had ZERO viable QB to challenge.

    Flynn was signed to be the starter in Seattle, he was NOT coddled by them actually drafting wilson who won the job. You have it ass backwards as usual, you are thinking that the guys who came in and took the jobs were the coddled ones.

    If you can say that mark freaking brunnell was a viable backup let alone viable competition then it will just sign, seal and deliver your delusions regarding the jets.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    Just wondering...

    How was he coddled? In what way? He came in as a rookie, #5 overall pick, he was going to be given every opportunity to win the starting job out of the gate, he happened to win the job, and despite growing pains, he managed to lead the team to an AFCCG, and then another one the second year. The team regressed, players overhauled at the WR and RB position, his 3rd year started out ok, but the team imploded, not because of Sanchez, but he certainly was part of it. Last year, injuries derailed the season, Tebow and the media derailed the season, and confidence derailed Sanchez on top of it.

    Then the arm chair football experts come out, the media spins, Sanchez was coddled, he'll finally go into a camp with competition, but what #5 overall pick who did earn the job in his rookie season, why should he have received competition each year? How was he coddled?
    Competition in 2009: Kellen Clemens (Below Average Backup/3rd String QB)
    Competition in 2010: Mark Brunell (40 Year old Player who had thrown 30 passes in the last 3 seasons)
    Competition in 2011: Mark Brunell (41 year old Player who had thrown 43 passes in the last 4 seasons)
    Competition in 2012: Tim Tebow (Jets respected his play so much, they played 3rd string QB who'd never thrown a pass over him)

    Clemens has never competed with a QB who the Jets felt could still play at a NFL level (Maybe Clemens, but he's about to be out of the league). Honestly, I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until last season. I thought he improved in 2010, and while he had his ups and downs in the first 13 games of 2011, he actually wasn't horrible. But he's been a disaster since then.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funaz View Post
    No franchise QBs are ever given competition. Name any great QB and then name me their fearsome backup that pushed them to keep their job. It doesn't happen. When you draft a QB #5 overall in the old CBA and were committed to for 50 million dollars you have to give them every chance to succeed.

    Flacco, Ryan, Alex Smith, Stafford, Bradford all QBs drafted before the wage scale all given every opportunity to succeed or as we say "coddled".

    You can say Sanchez sucks, but to say he needed competition to be better is moronic.
    List the 2nd and 3rd string Qb's for each of teams of the qbs you listed. I dare you to find worse backups than the jets went out of their way to get with sanchez. Also, list how many got extensions after being near the very bottom of the league in ratings each of their years. Also list how many of them had their best college buddies drafted by the team as an obvious favour to the qb.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    List the 2nd and 3rd string Qb's for each of teams of the qbs you listed. I dare you to find worse backups than the jets went out of their way to get with sanchez. Also, list how many got extensions after being near the very bottom of the league in ratings each of their years. Also list how many of them had their best college buddies drafted by the team as an obvious favour to the qb.
    idzik's mantra to have competition at every position was a not so subtle shot to the prior regime's coddling of sanchez for the past 4 years.

  13. #73
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    Better competition wouldn't have helped Sanchez. He has has a great work ethic, as good as anyone on the team. His accuracy hasn't improved, maybe he's just not capable, but "coddling" doesn't even enter the equation in my mind

  14. #74
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    Sanchez may have been handed the job, and may even have been coddled, but coddling is not a good thing for any player. It cannot be held against him. In fact it's just that, along with the horrible play calling, and personnel decisions that ruined his chances of being decent QB. Basically he should have been allowed to sink or swim, like Eli, or Rodgers were. Instead they gave him swimmies, and told him to stay in the shallow end until he was needed on third and long, and expected him to be ready.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    Sanchez may have been handed the job, and may even have been coddled, but coddling is not a good thing for any player. It cannot be held against him. In fact it's just that, along with the horrible play calling, and personnel decisions that ruined his chances of being decent QB. Basically he should have been allowed to sink or swim, like Eli, or Rodgers were. Instead they gave him swimmies, and told him to stay in the shallow end until he was needed on third and long, and expected him to be ready.
    very true. the problem was that even when it was 3rd and 5, he had trouble with his accuracy on the 6-8 yard stuff, not to mention screen passes.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by augustiniak View Post
    very true. the problem was that even when it was 3rd and 5, he had trouble with his accuracy on the 6-8 yard stuff, not to mention screen passes.
    That's why you sink or swim. You either come out the other side, or you don't. Eli sucks at 6-8 yard passes too, but he hits big plays, and that loosens up the defense, and makes the payoff worth the risk. He's also not afraid to make a mistake. Sanchez is ruined at this point, but we'll never know if he could have been good or not. I believe Sanchez led the league in 3rd down passing his first year. He was a backyard scrambler. They coached that out of him.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    That's why you sink or swim. You either come out the other side, or you don't. Eli sucks at 6-8 yard passes too, but he hits big plays, and that loosens up the defense, and makes the payoff worth the risk. He's also not afraid to make a mistake. Sanchez is ruined at this point, but we'll never know if he could have been good or not. I believe Sanchez led the league in 3rd down passing his first year. He was a backyard scrambler. They coached that out of him.
    problem was they had a veteran team that was ready to contend and had too much money invested in sanchez. the team would have better been served with a veteran caretaker qb who could minimize turnovers. money and hubris, that's why sanchez continued to play under tanny.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw View Post
    Better competition wouldn't have helped Sanchez. He has has a great work ethic, as good as anyone on the team. His accuracy hasn't improved, maybe he's just not capable, but "coddling" doesn't even enter the equation in my mind
    Great work ethic, but terrible defeatist attitude when things get difficult. He wasn't like that early on.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw View Post
    Better competition wouldn't have helped Sanchez. He has has a great work ethic, as good as anyone on the team. His accuracy hasn't improved, maybe he's just not capable, but "coddling" doesn't even enter the equation in my mind
    The coddling hurt him a great deal. The jets went way over board in trying not to put too much pressure on the guy and makes things as easy as possible for him. He was handed everything and in my mind it hurt him a lot.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    That's why you sink or swim. You either come out the other side, or you don't. Eli sucks at 6-8 yard passes too, but he hits big plays, and that loosens up the defense, and makes the payoff worth the risk. He's also not afraid to make a mistake. Sanchez is ruined at this point, but we'll never know if he could have been good or not. I believe Sanchez led the league in 3rd down passing his first year. He was a backyard scrambler. They coached that out of him.
    Agree 100%. They coached the aggressiveness right out of him. Basically instead of telling him to "go out and win us a game", they told him to "go out and make sure you dont lose us this game". Huge difference when you trying to develop a QB and his confidence. Like you said, it doesnt matter at this point, he is what he is now.

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