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Thread: Raiding The NFL: Geno

  1. #1

    Raiding The NFL: Geno

    So, the biggest complaint against Geno Smith is that he's a product of the Air Raid offense, and how the Air Raid offense hasn't produced anyone successful in the NFL.

    So what makes Geno Smith different? Arm Strength. From pretty much all scouting reports, he has very good arm strength to elite arm strength, and even Rex mentioned it today about how he has such good arm strength.

    So lets look at which QBs were drafted from Air Raid offenses.

    Most famous of the Air Raid QBs, and ofcourse it's biggest bust in the NFL would be Time Couch. Picked by the Browns first overall, he was a bust in the end. He put up excellent completion percentages (over 70% his final year in college) albeit mixed in with a decent amount of INT (TD/INT ratio just above 2:1). But why did he fail? Arm Strength. That was his biggest weakness. The Air Raid system itself masks arm strength problems much in the same way a WCO does, because a lot of the throws tend to be short or intermediate routes. For those routes, what you really need is a QB with brains, someone that can pick apart a defense and know which read will be open or which guy to check down to. That is why in almost all cases, the Air Raid QB is someone smart (like Kilff Kingsbury) that may not have all the talent in the world, but can understand where to go with the ball. On a side note, and I'm sure this will get blasted, he also has career rating better than Mark Sanchez while playing for an expansion team. Just sayin'.

    Unfortunately, there is no Air Raid in the NFL, but there are variations of it from the WCO and Air Coryell. But the system doesn't translate as well into the NFL, because the defenses in the NFL are faster at plugging those holes on intermediate routes. A zone in the NFL is infinitely harder to penetrate than NCAA because the LBs are faster, and the window is short. For pretty much all of the Air Raid QBs, this means, you can't zip it into the shorter window without taking massive risks. And you don't have the hyper arm strength to take the lid off the top by throwing it deep consistently.

    And by throwing it over the top, doesn't mean Couch or any of these QBs couldn't throw it 50+ yards deep with their arms. But they couldn't throw it 50+ yards, while maintaining the certain level of accuracy. It was almost just throwing it up there in the general direction and hope your guy wins. Similar to taking a half court shot, where you can shoot it normally or if you aren't strong enough, do a one handed heave. Both balls will most likely make it to the basket, but the normal shot has a much greater chance of going in. Also similar to a pitcher overthrowing in baseball, there is a lack of control.

    List of somewhat famous Air Raid QB besides Couch: (And these are all scouting reports that I found on google search with respective names and arm strength attached)

    Kliff Kingsbury- Marginal Arm Strength
    Kevil Kolb- Moderate Arm Strength
    Josh Huepel- Questionable Arm Strength
    Graham Harrel- Lacks Arm Strength
    Case Keenum- Limited Arm Strength
    Jason White- Sketchy Arm Strength

    All of these guys had excellent numbers in college in an Air Raid offense, yet none of them that much of an impact in the NFL. Kolb obviously is the most famous of this, but he basically took half a season in Philly, and turned that into a pot of money, them promptly returned to being mediocre. All of them are Mcelroy type guys who can do the lateral passes and dissect the defense, but it just doesn't translate to the NFL.

    So when everyone complains that Geno is a system QB, and a product of the system, it has a very good shot at being inaccurate because he is not the typical QB in the system. Having very good arm strength and deep ball accuracy gives the defense a lot more to worry about, and fits in perfectly with the WCO. It also fits in perfectly with MM's WCO. And I believe the Geno pick has MM's handprints all over it, because MM was the OC when Kevin Kolb was picked from an Air Raid offense. But who else got picked from an Air Raid offense, that also had excellent arm strength? Nick Foles. Also when MM was OC.

    What did Foles do last year? He put up a 79.1 rating, which was better than Tannehill, Weeden, and Locker. And we're hearing that he's tearing up Philly camp right now, and could possibly be the starter over Vick. He's another Air Raid guy that has a strong arm and can take the top off of the defense. He also had very good college stats with a completion percentage near 70%, albeit he with a TD/INT ratio of 2:1.

    So why would MM go after Air Raid guys with arm strength? Because they are already familiar with the WCO. The intermediate routes and the checkdowns are similar in both offenses. So as far as play recognition goes, it's very similar to playing in a pro system for the intermediate and check down screens. Having the arm strength moves the safeties back opening up more space in the middle or the opportunity to strike deep if the safeties are coming up. Air Raid puts an emphasis on timing and rhythm, and we've seen numerous highlights of Bailey and Austin getting the ball in stride on a crossing route allowing them to run after the catch. Why not just go for a pro system QB then? It's more cost effective this way. Foles dropped to the 3rd round, Geno to the second, and Kolb to the second round. The stigma around the system lessens their value. So when they are drafted, these guys need to get used to working out from under center, but that can be acquired with practice, and for that extra amount of practice, a lot of these guys fall an extra round or so than they really should if they actually have arm strength.

    The only difference for them is that, the WCO offense incorporates the RB much more than the Air Raid, which can only give an advantage to guys that can throw it deep, which is a reason why the Geno to Hill or Gates connection could be huge this year (assuming if Gates makes the team or any other speedster).

    This is before we even factor in Geno being a mobile QB and what that brings to the equation for the defense. Albeit, Geno was never all that aggressive as a runner in college. He ran a similar 40 time to Kerley, yet he almost never ran unless he was forced out of the pocket. And there were times, especially in the TT game and I believe the K-State game where he had an open field and a sure first down early in the game and he decided to pass instead.

    Obviously, I'm hyping up Geno here, but there are areas of concern with him sure. While he has the skills to break the system, it doesn't necessarily mean he is actually going to do it. He still has to get adjusted to the speed of the game, much like any other QB. I just wanted to make the point that the transition from an Air Raid to WCO offense isn't as drastic as it seems, because the ones that have made the transition before him have done so with limited talent in their arms. But atleast for a change, I think we have a QB and a coordinator that are made for each other.

    Also, on a side note, Weeden has excellent arm strength as well, and I do think he improves drastically this year from last year. His case is a little weird with the time off and age, but he's another one that can break through for the Air Raid.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Win4ever View Post
    So, the biggest complaint against Geno Smith is that he's a product of the Air Raid offense, and how the Air Raid offense hasn't produced anyone successful in the NFL.

    So what makes Geno Smith different? Arm Strength. From pretty much all scouting reports, he has very good arm strength to elite arm strength, and even Rex mentioned it today about how he has such good arm strength.

    So lets look at which QBs were drafted from Air Raid offenses.

    Most famous of the Air Raid QBs, and ofcourse it's biggest bust in the NFL would be Time Couch. Picked by the Browns first overall, he was a bust in the end. He put up excellent completion percentages (over 70% his final year in college) albeit mixed in with a decent amount of INT (TD/INT ratio just above 2:1). But why did he fail? Arm Strength. That was his biggest weakness. The Air Raid system itself masks arm strength problems much in the same way a WCO does, because a lot of the throws tend to be short or intermediate routes. For those routes, what you really need is a QB with brains, someone that can pick apart a defense and know which read will be open or which guy to check down to. That is why in almost all cases, the Air Raid QB is someone smart (like Kilff Kingsbury) that may not have all the talent in the world, but can understand where to go with the ball. On a side note, and I'm sure this will get blasted, he also has career rating better than Mark Sanchez while playing for an expansion team. Just sayin'.

    Unfortunately, there is no Air Raid in the NFL, but there are variations of it from the WCO and Air Coryell. But the system doesn't translate as well into the NFL, because the defenses in the NFL are faster at plugging those holes on intermediate routes. A zone in the NFL is infinitely harder to penetrate than NCAA because the LBs are faster, and the window is short. For pretty much all of the Air Raid QBs, this means, you can't zip it into the shorter window without taking massive risks. And you don't have the hyper arm strength to take the lid off the top by throwing it deep consistently.

    And by throwing it over the top, doesn't mean Couch or any of these QBs couldn't throw it 50+ yards deep with their arms. But they couldn't throw it 50+ yards, while maintaining the certain level of accuracy. It was almost just throwing it up there in the general direction and hope your guy wins. Similar to taking a half court shot, where you can shoot it normally or if you aren't strong enough, do a one handed heave. Both balls will most likely make it to the basket, but the normal shot has a much greater chance of going in. Also similar to a pitcher overthrowing in baseball, there is a lack of control.

    List of somewhat famous Air Raid QB besides Couch: (And these are all scouting reports that I found on google search with respective names and arm strength attached)

    Kliff Kingsbury- Marginal Arm Strength
    Kevil Kolb- Moderate Arm Strength
    Josh Huepel- Questionable Arm Strength
    Graham Harrel- Lacks Arm Strength
    Case Keenum- Limited Arm Strength
    Jason White- Sketchy Arm Strength

    All of these guys had excellent numbers in college in an Air Raid offense, yet none of them that much of an impact in the NFL. Kolb obviously is the most famous of this, but he basically took half a season in Philly, and turned that into a pot of money, them promptly returned to being mediocre. All of them are Mcelroy type guys who can do the lateral passes and dissect the defense, but it just doesn't translate to the NFL.

    So when everyone complains that Geno is a system QB, and a product of the system, it has a very good shot at being inaccurate because he is not the typical QB in the system. Having very good arm strength and deep ball accuracy gives the defense a lot more to worry about, and fits in perfectly with the WCO. It also fits in perfectly with MM's WCO. And I believe the Geno pick has MM's handprints all over it, because MM was the OC when Kevin Kolb was picked from an Air Raid offense. But who else got picked from an Air Raid offense, that also had excellent arm strength? Nick Foles. Also when MM was OC.

    What did Foles do last year? He put up a 79.1 rating, which was better than Tannehill, Weeden, and Locker. And we're hearing that he's tearing up Philly camp right now, and could possibly be the starter over Vick. He's another Air Raid guy that has a strong arm and can take the top off of the defense. He also had very good college stats with a completion percentage near 70%, albeit he with a TD/INT ratio of 2:1.

    So why would MM go after Air Raid guys with arm strength? Because they are already familiar with the WCO. The intermediate routes and the checkdowns are similar in both offenses. So as far as play recognition goes, it's very similar to playing in a pro system for the intermediate and check down screens. Having the arm strength moves the safeties back opening up more space in the middle or the opportunity to strike deep if the safeties are coming up. Air Raid puts an emphasis on timing and rhythm, and we've seen numerous highlights of Bailey and Austin getting the ball in stride on a crossing route allowing them to run after the catch. Why not just go for a pro system QB then? It's more cost effective this way. Foles dropped to the 3rd round, Geno to the second, and Kolb to the second round. The stigma around the system lessens their value. So when they are drafted, these guys need to get used to working out from under center, but that can be acquired with practice, and for that extra amount of practice, a lot of these guys fall an extra round or so than they really should if they actually have arm strength.

    The only difference for them is that, the WCO offense incorporates the RB much more than the Air Raid, which can only give an advantage to guys that can throw it deep, which is a reason why the Geno to Hill or Gates connection could be huge this year (assuming if Gates makes the team or any other speedster).

    This is before we even factor in Geno being a mobile QB and what that brings to the equation for the defense. Albeit, Geno was never all that aggressive as a runner in college. He ran a similar 40 time to Kerley, yet he almost never ran unless he was forced out of the pocket. And there were times, especially in the TT game and I believe the K-State game where he had an open field and a sure first down early in the game and he decided to pass instead.

    Obviously, I'm hyping up Geno here, but there are areas of concern with him sure. While he has the skills to break the system, it doesn't necessarily mean he is actually going to do it. He still has to get adjusted to the speed of the game, much like any other QB. I just wanted to make the point that the transition from an Air Raid to WCO offense isn't as drastic as it seems, because the ones that have made the transition before him have done so with limited talent in their arms. But atleast for a change, I think we have a QB and a coordinator that are made for each other.

    Also, on a side note, Weeden has excellent arm strength as well, and I do think he improves drastically this year from last year. His case is a little weird with the time off and age, but he's another one that can break through for the Air Raid.

    whoa

  3. #3
    Excellent post! Thanks!

  4. #4
    Great post.
    Does anyone know if Russell Wilson ran a lot in college?
    I really like this theory involving Marty & Geno. While Geno comes from a different system the similarity is the short passing game & accuracy involved in allowing your receivers & RBs to catch the ball in stride & get YAC.
    The best part is that unlike running QBs coming into the NFL, who get spooked easily & just take off running, it's much easier to take a guy that is a pocket passer but is also athletic & has speed like Geno to teach him WHEN to run.
    When discussing the smaller windows in the NFL, you also have to discuss the lanes that open up to run through because of tighter coverage.
    If Geno turns out to have great instincts (survival), & uses his feet to scramble for 1st downs & sits down afterward, nothing is more frustrating to a D.
    Geno is like a ball of clay for Marty, and he's got everything you need to have initially to have a career in the NFL, he's pretty smart, he's very accurate, he also has an above average arm & he can run like a wideout (4.5 is fast folks).

    All these things tell me he has a chance. Now if he beats out Sanchez fair & square in camp & preseason, I am very excited.
    Lets remember as Jet fans to support him, he's young, he'll get better, he'll have great coaching, & we will have the ammunition to surround him with more talent in next years draft & free agency.
    If Geno pans out, the Jets can own the AFC for a while & try to punch a ticket to a Superbowl with playoffs that go through MetLife stadium.

  5. #5
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    Hey, SlimShady...are you pimping TWO usernames?


    That's not going to fly.

  6. #6
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    very good post, thanks!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestCoastOffensive View Post
    Hey, SlimShady...are you pimping TWO usernames?


    That's not going to fly.
    But will it float?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Win4ever View Post
    So, the biggest complaint against Geno Smith is that he's a product of the Air Raid offense, and how the Air Raid offense hasn't produced anyone successful in the NFL.

    So what makes Geno Smith different? Arm Strength. From pretty much all scouting reports, he has very good arm strength to elite arm strength, and even Rex mentioned it today about how he has such good arm strength.

    So lets look at which QBs were drafted from Air Raid offenses.

    Most famous of the Air Raid QBs, and ofcourse it's biggest bust in the NFL would be Time Couch. Picked by the Browns first overall, he was a bust in the end. He put up excellent completion percentages (over 70% his final year in college) albeit mixed in with a decent amount of INT (TD/INT ratio just above 2:1). But why did he fail? Arm Strength. That was his biggest weakness. The Air Raid system itself masks arm strength problems much in the same way a WCO does, because a lot of the throws tend to be short or intermediate routes. For those routes, what you really need is a QB with brains, someone that can pick apart a defense and know which read will be open or which guy to check down to. That is why in almost all cases, the Air Raid QB is someone smart (like Kilff Kingsbury) that may not have all the talent in the world, but can understand where to go with the ball. On a side note, and I'm sure this will get blasted, he also has career rating better than Mark Sanchez while playing for an expansion team. Just sayin'.

    Unfortunately, there is no Air Raid in the NFL, but there are variations of it from the WCO and Air Coryell. But the system doesn't translate as well into the NFL, because the defenses in the NFL are faster at plugging those holes on intermediate routes. A zone in the NFL is infinitely harder to penetrate than NCAA because the LBs are faster, and the window is short. For pretty much all of the Air Raid QBs, this means, you can't zip it into the shorter window without taking massive risks. And you don't have the hyper arm strength to take the lid off the top by throwing it deep consistently.

    And by throwing it over the top, doesn't mean Couch or any of these QBs couldn't throw it 50+ yards deep with their arms. But they couldn't throw it 50+ yards, while maintaining the certain level of accuracy. It was almost just throwing it up there in the general direction and hope your guy wins. Similar to taking a half court shot, where you can shoot it normally or if you aren't strong enough, do a one handed heave. Both balls will most likely make it to the basket, but the normal shot has a much greater chance of going in. Also similar to a pitcher overthrowing in baseball, there is a lack of control.

    List of somewhat famous Air Raid QB besides Couch: (And these are all scouting reports that I found on google search with respective names and arm strength attached)

    Kliff Kingsbury- Marginal Arm Strength
    Kevil Kolb- Moderate Arm Strength
    Josh Huepel- Questionable Arm Strength
    Graham Harrel- Lacks Arm Strength
    Case Keenum- Limited Arm Strength
    Jason White- Sketchy Arm Strength

    All of these guys had excellent numbers in college in an Air Raid offense, yet none of them that much of an impact in the NFL. Kolb obviously is the most famous of this, but he basically took half a season in Philly, and turned that into a pot of money, them promptly returned to being mediocre. All of them are Mcelroy type guys who can do the lateral passes and dissect the defense, but it just doesn't translate to the NFL.

    So when everyone complains that Geno is a system QB, and a product of the system, it has a very good shot at being inaccurate because he is not the typical QB in the system. Having very good arm strength and deep ball accuracy gives the defense a lot more to worry about, and fits in perfectly with the WCO. It also fits in perfectly with MM's WCO. And I believe the Geno pick has MM's handprints all over it, because MM was the OC when Kevin Kolb was picked from an Air Raid offense. But who else got picked from an Air Raid offense, that also had excellent arm strength? Nick Foles. Also when MM was OC.

    What did Foles do last year? He put up a 79.1 rating, which was better than Tannehill, Weeden, and Locker. And we're hearing that he's tearing up Philly camp right now, and could possibly be the starter over Vick. He's another Air Raid guy that has a strong arm and can take the top off of the defense. He also had very good college stats with a completion percentage near 70%, albeit he with a TD/INT ratio of 2:1.

    So why would MM go after Air Raid guys with arm strength? Because they are already familiar with the WCO. The intermediate routes and the checkdowns are similar in both offenses. So as far as play recognition goes, it's very similar to playing in a pro system for the intermediate and check down screens. Having the arm strength moves the safeties back opening up more space in the middle or the opportunity to strike deep if the safeties are coming up. Air Raid puts an emphasis on timing and rhythm, and we've seen numerous highlights of Bailey and Austin getting the ball in stride on a crossing route allowing them to run after the catch. Why not just go for a pro system QB then? It's more cost effective this way. Foles dropped to the 3rd round, Geno to the second, and Kolb to the second round. The stigma around the system lessens their value. So when they are drafted, these guys need to get used to working out from under center, but that can be acquired with practice, and for that extra amount of practice, a lot of these guys fall an extra round or so than they really should if they actually have arm strength.

    The only difference for them is that, the WCO offense incorporates the RB much more than the Air Raid, which can only give an advantage to guys that can throw it deep, which is a reason why the Geno to Hill or Gates connection could be huge this year (assuming if Gates makes the team or any other speedster).

    This is before we even factor in Geno being a mobile QB and what that brings to the equation for the defense. Albeit, Geno was never all that aggressive as a runner in college. He ran a similar 40 time to Kerley, yet he almost never ran unless he was forced out of the pocket. And there were times, especially in the TT game and I believe the K-State game where he had an open field and a sure first down early in the game and he decided to pass instead.

    Obviously, I'm hyping up Geno here, but there are areas of concern with him sure. While he has the skills to break the system, it doesn't necessarily mean he is actually going to do it. He still has to get adjusted to the speed of the game, much like any other QB. I just wanted to make the point that the transition from an Air Raid to WCO offense isn't as drastic as it seems, because the ones that have made the transition before him have done so with limited talent in their arms. But atleast for a change, I think we have a QB and a coordinator that are made for each other.

    Also, on a side note, Weeden has excellent arm strength as well, and I do think he improves drastically this year from last year. His case is a little weird with the time off and age, but he's another one that can break through for the Air Raid.
    Stats are for losers! loser. that was then, this is the here and NOW! get! gone..

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetstream23 View Post
    But will it float?
    Not when he eats that much meatloaf.


    He's dealin' sinkers.

  10. #10
    RG3 was an air raid guy too.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    RG3 was an air raid guy too.
    True, but Baylor's system was different than Holgorsen's at WVU. Baylor's was more vertical and RGIII ran WAY more than Geno. I think RGIIIs yards per attempt was over 10, while Geno's was 8.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    True, but Baylor's system was different than Holgorsen's at WVU. Baylor's was more vertical and RGIII ran WAY more than Geno. I think RGIIIs yards per attempt was over 10, while Geno's was 8.
    Yes different talent sets but I think it is dumb to say a guy cant succeed because he ran something in college. Talent is talent. Weeden I think also ran it in college and he is more of an assassin. Each person if different. Most people dont bust because of their ability or what they did in college. Geno seems to get he needs to do the homework if he can play pro speed he will be fine IMO.

  13. #13
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    This is a good article. Geno has a chance to be successful here just as much as any QB we have drafted over the last 25 year. He has the physical tools its just a matter of the mental approach and playbook studying transferring into results. It would be a great find if he starts this year at some point and it becomes apparent that he's our future QB and we do not have to draft another one next year. If that happens, with this young D-line we can be back in the playoffs quicker than most believe. Will see.

  14. #14
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    Geno played in an NFL style offense during his first 2 seasons at WVU under Bill Stewart....granted, he only started his Sophomore year. My point is, he will pick it up quick.

  15. #15
    Sounds good to me!

    (Also sounds a little too intelligent for a DWC post... No questions followed by the "answer" and no list of the entire roster)

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    He's not DWC. I think he is a refugee from another Jets forum.

    I think the WCO is a terrible mod ... I mean a QB-friendly offense. It does fit Geno's skill set.

  17. #17
    imo the system geno comes from isn't going to mean much unless people think he should start this season. the best wco qb ever was joe montana he i don't think he came from an "air raid" offense. he also had limited arm strength. what he did have was great instincts, accuracy, decisiveness, and leadership. if geno has all of those he will be fine.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    He's not DWC. I think he is a refugee from another Jets forum.

    I think the WCO is a terrible mod ... I mean a QB-friendly offense. It does fit Geno's skill set.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtstar View Post
    whoa
    Yes, Woah indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by GandWFan View Post
    Excellent post! Thanks!
    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by jetster View Post
    Great post.
    Does anyone know if Russell Wilson ran a lot in college?
    I really like this theory involving Marty & Geno. While Geno comes from a different system the similarity is the short passing game & accuracy involved in allowing your receivers & RBs to catch the ball in stride & get YAC.
    The best part is that unlike running QBs coming into the NFL, who get spooked easily & just take off running, it's much easier to take a guy that is a pocket passer but is also athletic & has speed like Geno to teach him WHEN to run.
    When discussing the smaller windows in the NFL, you also have to discuss the lanes that open up to run through because of tighter coverage.
    If Geno turns out to have great instincts (survival), & uses his feet to scramble for 1st downs & sits down afterward, nothing is more frustrating to a D.
    Geno is like a ball of clay for Marty, and he's got everything you need to have initially to have a career in the NFL, he's pretty smart, he's very accurate, he also has an above average arm & he can run like a wideout (4.5 is fast folks).

    All these things tell me he has a chance. Now if he beats out Sanchez fair & square in camp & preseason, I am very excited.
    Lets remember as Jet fans to support him, he's young, he'll get better, he'll have great coaching, & we will have the ammunition to surround him with more talent in next years draft & free agency.
    If Geno pans out, the Jets can own the AFC for a while & try to punch a ticket to a Superbowl with playoffs that go through MetLife stadium.
    Wilson ran more than Geno, but he played more in a pro style offense at NC State and Wisconsin. I don't know much about him at NC State, because I honestly didn't watch NC State at all, but being a Michigan fan, I did check out the Badgers game from time to time, and there was no need for him to run. Monte Ball was filthy for them the year Wilson was there, so to establish the run, all they really had to do was give the ball to Ball. Wilson rarely seem to have run plays called, and a good number of his rushing stats came when there was pressure or good coverage and he took off.

    It's similar to what Geno did in WV in that he's a pocket passer first, but I think there were a few missed opportunities where he missed wide open field to throw to a covered WR. A few of those times, it worked out, but I would've liked for him to take the sure thing over something that had a chance to be incomplete.

    The differences for Geno on the positive side should be a better O-Line, and a better RB situation. His RBs sucked last year. Bouie (SP?) had like 200 yards in the Texas game, because Brown misplayed his defense. He either dropped back his LBs or blitzed the heck out of it, opening up lanes for the RB in that game. Every other defense figured out, they could get pressure by just rushing 3 or 4, because the WV O-Line was weak, and have more people in coverage. I don't know if I want Geno to run pre-designed running plays like the option, because it's just begging for an injury. I'd rather he just took off like Wilson or Rodgers, where there is an open pocket in the field and he can get free yards.

    If he works out, yeah, could really help our franchise. As with any team, if you land a franchise QB, you solve 75% of your problems. And then a Rex defense and the ability to surround him with playmakers in the later years helps us sustain competitiveness.

    Quote Originally Posted by WestCoastOffensive View Post
    Hey, SlimShady...are you pimping TWO usernames?


    That's not going to fly.
    Assuming it's not to me, lol. But no, I don't think I've posted here before.

    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyJet80 View Post
    very good post, thanks!
    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by TechJet View Post
    Stats are for losers! loser. that was then, this is the here and NOW! get! gone..
    Lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    RG3 was an air raid guy too.
    He ran a different type of system, albeit it had a lot of the same elements. I think it was more spread option than Air Raid though.

    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    True, but Baylor's system was different than Holgorsen's at WVU. Baylor's was more vertical and RGIII ran WAY more than Geno. I think RGIIIs yards per attempt was over 10, while Geno's was 8.
    Yeah, they had more designed runs. They also had bigger WRs, with Gordon and Williams on the outside, and Wright was the main slot guy. Whereas, WV basically had two guys who had the size for slot guys, so they couldn't throw it deep as much and hope the shorter guys came up with it.

    Which also begs the question, what exactly is the pro offense in college now? Manziel ran a version of the Air Raid under Kingsbury, Bridgewater runs a spread offense, Mariota runs an insanely fast paced spread option offense, and Boyd runs a spread offense I believe. Pretty much every major QB prospect runs a spread offense of some sort with heavy throwing. And even in the pro's, we're seeing teams move more and more into spread shotgun looks, and no huddle offenses, because the offense is so protected from the defense now, that teams can call a block of plays on the run, and still be successful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    Yes different talent sets but I think it is dumb to say a guy cant succeed because he ran something in college. Talent is talent. Weeden I think also ran it in college and he is more of an assassin. Each person if different. Most people dont bust because of their ability or what they did in college. Geno seems to get he needs to do the homework if he can play pro speed he will be fine IMO.
    I think so too, but there are guys that benefit from having certain types of offenses built around them. Tebow benefited from having a spread option around him because he would be terrible in a pro style offense. I think you have to mix talent with the system for it to be right. I think Mcelroy would be bad in a WCO because similar to the failed Air Raid QBs, his arm strength is highly questionable, and in the NFL that is a huge problem.

    Someone like Colt McCoy could get away with average arm strength in college ala Mcelroy, but once in the NFL, the speed changes the reads. And the only way to effectively combat that is by having an incredibly high football IQ and ability to predict the defense like Pennington did, or have the arm strength to zip it by defenders enough times that they drop back.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrickHouse View Post
    This is a good article. Geno has a chance to be successful here just as much as any QB we have drafted over the last 25 year. He has the physical tools its just a matter of the mental approach and playbook studying transferring into results. It would be a great find if he starts this year at some point and it becomes apparent that he's our future QB and we do not have to draft another one next year. If that happens, with this young D-line we can be back in the playoffs quicker than most believe. Will see.
    Yeah, he has the best tools I've seen from a QB we've had for a long time, especially one that we've drafted. It's one of those situations, where the talent, the coaching, and the opportunity has lined up perfectly IMO. Ofcourse, since we're the Jets he'll probably get busted trying to steal Jay-Z's car and rot away in jail most likely. But I am optimistic, however I do admit, I was optimistic for Sanchez as well. I bought into the whole pro style offense, winner, can handle the media, and we have our franchise guy BS.

    Quote Originally Posted by wvjet View Post
    Geno played in an NFL style offense during his first 2 seasons at WVU under Bill Stewart....granted, he only started his Sophomore year. My point is, he will pick it up quick.
    Hopefully he does. I don't think it's the playbook, as much as the timing. If his timing is set, I think he can be very good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman Harris View Post
    Sounds good to me!

    (Also sounds a little too intelligent for a DWC post... No questions followed by the "answer" and no list of the entire roster)
    Not sure what DWC is, lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    He's not DWC. I think he is a refugee from another Jets forum.

    I think the WCO is a terrible mod ... I mean a QB-friendly offense. It does fit Geno's skill set.
    Yeah, I used to post at TGG, but got tired of having every single thread merged into one mega topic, even when the ideas expressed just happened to involve the player lightly. Might as well have had 53 threads for each player and called it a day.

    Lol, I'll take pee-wee offense over the crap Sparano threw out there last year.

    Quote Originally Posted by sameoldjets View Post
    imo the system geno comes from isn't going to mean much unless people think he should start this season. the best wco qb ever was joe montana he i don't think he came from an "air raid" offense. he also had limited arm strength. what he did have was great instincts, accuracy, decisiveness, and leadership. if geno has all of those he will be fine.
    I think most people want Geno to start this year, maybe not right away, but atleast by mid season unless Sanchez pulls a miracle out of his ass.

    Montana was amazing, but yeah he had amazing instincts and accuracy. He also had a very talented core around him. I also think the game is different then, that it is now. The game in the 80's were predicated more on having bruising defenses than defenses that relied on speed. What spurred this post in the first place was reading about the Air Coryell offense, and how it changed the game. How teams had to account for the entire field and worry about TE in the passing game. It also mentioned that the passing system itself was similar to the WCO, just the Coryell took many deep shots where WCO was about methodically driving down the field. But both offenses presented a huge new set of challenges for defense that they weren't used to, and it took defenses to adjust. I don't think Montana would've fared as well as he did, if he faced defenses and LBs that could run with some WRs and TEs. He gained an inherent advantage by having a set of skills and a system that took advantage of those skills against a defensive league that wasn't prepared for it. If you look at Montana's stats in college, it wasn't that good at all, infact they are pretty terrible. But the WCO system made a huge difference for him because it fit his skills perfectly, while also having those defenses caught off guard.

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