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Thread: Interesting, FS battle no longer between Bush and Allen...

  1. #1

    Interesting, FS battle no longer between Bush and Allen...

    It's between Allen and Jarret, but all three are making the team. Rex wants to groom Bush to take over for Landry, he's the more cerebral one, remember, it will be Landry who will set everyone and call the secondary plays, blitzes and things of that nature, Rex thinks Bush is a natural at that. Allen brings length and athleticism, he's been getting praised for his pass coverage. I remember him at S.Carolina, he was like an extra linebacker for them, didn't think he would have such good range for a FS but apparently he does. Jarrett is just an ass kicking machine, he's a heat seeking missile, go back and watch some Temple highlights and you'll see what I mean, Rontez Miles is a similar kind of player, just fearless. I do think Allen will win that job though, he's more of a big play maker, he has that flair.

  2. #2
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    Don't those 2 guys play SS.

  3. #3
    dont really get it, what does it matter if the SS or FS calls out the plays and lines everyone up? besides these days it makes no difference if you're a SS or FS. landry can call the plays playing FS or SS. but he is terrible in coverage and very slow, he's a typical SS. bush is a typical centerfielder made to play FS. jarrett and allen cant cover, so i dont get having one of them as well as landry out there in the backfield, especially with millner out there minus revis as well. dumb decision if they do that

  4. #4
    I trust Rex on that one, not some camp report, and I also trust what he wants out of his safeties.

  5. #5
    Rex had exactly one true free safety on his roster as Jets HC, and his name was Kerry Rhodes. Since then he's always basically played with two strong safeties. Since the Jets corner play has been so good, that has worked out fairly well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackleem View Post
    Rex had exactly one true free safety on his roster as Jets HC, and his name was Kerry Rhodes. Since then he's always basically played with two strong safeties. Since the Jets corner play has been so good, that has worked out fairly well.
    Bush is worthy of being considered a true FREE SAFETY. He is a center fielder with ample speed and big play ability. He wil fully learn the signals and be the secondary leader for years to come?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tackleem View Post
    Rex had exactly one true free safety on his roster as Jets HC, and his name was Kerry Rhodes. Since then he's always basically played with two strong safeties. Since the Jets corner play has been so good, that has worked out fairly well.
    that was when we had the luxury of one side of the field being shut down by revis, so a cover safety became expandable. and even then, we had some guys who could still cover pretty well. laron wasnt terrible in coverage, jim leonard wasnt that bad in coverage (way better than dawan is for sure), kerry rhodes was great in coverage. so now with revis gone and a rookie corner out there in his place, why would you focus on having 2 slow/below average cover safeties on the field? like i said it makes no sense but we will see i guess. im still hoping bush makes it somehow. dawan is not a true free safety, why would you have a true free safety back him up and have 2 typical strong safeties on the other side? it sounds so dumb. jarrett or allen should be backing up landry

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBallhawk View Post
    that was when we had the luxury of one side of the field being shut down by revis, so a cover safety became expandable. and even then, we had some guys who could still cover pretty well. laron wasnt terrible in coverage, jim leonard wasnt that bad in coverage (way better than dawan is for sure), kerry rhodes was great in coverage. so now with revis gone and a rookie corner out there in his place, why would you focus on having 2 slow/below average cover safeties on the field? like i said it makes no sense but we will see i guess. im still hoping bush makes it somehow. dawan is not a true free safety, why would you have a true free safety back him up and have 2 typical strong safeties on the other side? it sounds so dumb. jarrett or allen should be backing up landry
    We don't have Revis, but we still have one of the top 5 cover CBs in the league in Cromartie and we could have another top CB in Millner (of course rookie CBs tend to struggle a bit).

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by revischrist View Post
    We don't have Revis, but we still have one of the top 5 cover CBs in the league in Cromartie and we could have another top CB in Millner (of course rookie CBs tend to struggle a bit).
    +1

    We didn't even have Revis last year anyway, so anything this kid provides should be an improvement . . .

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    +1

    We didn't even have Revis last year anyway, so anything this kid provides should be an improvement . . .
    People forget this. Defense doesn't need Revis, he needs the Jets' defense.

    I'm curious how his season goes in Tampa.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by revischrist View Post
    We don't have Revis, but we still have one of the top 5 cover CBs in the league in Cromartie and we could have another top CB in Millner (of course rookie CBs tend to struggle a bit).
    we had cromartie the last few seasons, that was part of why we were able to get away with not having elite cover safeties, yet we did have good enough cover safeties out there, even with revis and cro on the field. now we dont have revis (instead a rookie corner who will give up bigplays), and we dont have any decent cover safety either, that makes no sense. we lost cover skills at cornerback and istead of adding that to the safety position we lost cover skills at safety as well. thats the problem

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    People forget this. Defense doesn't need Revis, he needs the Jets' defense.

    I'm curious how his season goes in Tampa.
    IMO having Revis on the team gave us one HOF player and a dominant defense ON PAPER -- I never felt the product I saw on the field matched up with what the stats seemed to say (except for maybe the Jenks era).

    For as much as I respect Rex, I've never liked his "all I need are great CBs" philosophy. I'm looking forward to seeing what this front 4 can do and seeing more truly dominating defense like the Ravens played without ever having someone of the level of Revis. Yeah, we don't have a Lewis or a Suggs, but there's enough talent on this team for guys like that to arise if Rex puts his focus on their strength instead of the backfield . . .

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    IMO having Revis on the team gave us one HOF player and a dominant defense ON PAPER -- I never felt the product I saw on the field matched up with what the stats seemed to say (except for maybe the Jenks era).

    For as much as I respect Rex, I've never liked his "all I need are great CBs" philosophy. I'm looking forward to seeing what this front 4 can do and seeing more truly dominating defense like the Ravens played without ever having someone of the level of Revis. Yeah, we don't have a Lewis or a Suggs, but there's enough talent on this team for guys like that to arise if Rex puts his focus on their strength instead of the backfield . . .
    Couldn't agree more, especially with the part I bolded.

  14. #14
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    We made the biggest addition at safety in the off-season that no one is mentioning. The release of Eric Smith.

    I can't express enough how relieved I am that he is no longer a NY Jet.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBallhawk View Post
    we had cromartie the last few seasons, that was part of why we were able to get away with not having elite cover safeties, yet we did have good enough cover safeties out there, even with revis and cro on the field. now we dont have revis (instead a rookie corner who will give up bigplays), and we dont have any decent cover safety either, that makes no sense. we lost cover skills at cornerback and istead of adding that to the safety position we lost cover skills at safety as well. thats the problem
    Not saying you personally, but Jet fans seem to suffer from "but we're not awesome everywhere!!" syndrome.

    You're right -- we're not as strong in the secondary as we used to be. Losing a guy like Revis will do that to you, and losing Landry only magnifies the problem. But there are plenty of successful teams out there that don't have elite secondaries. They find other ways to get the job done. Maybe they just outscore the opponent (don't see that happening here). Maybe they get pressure up front (my greatest wish for the upcoming year). Maybe they scheme well enough to confuse the offense so they can't take advantage of our deficiencies (supposedly a strength of Rex).

    Point is, I'm tired of an elite secondary making us look dominant on paper, when the eye test clearly shows we're not. With our "elite secondary" we still gave up third down conversions way too often. We still allowed last minute drives to be successful. We still gave QBs too much time to find holes that inevitably pop up in ANY defense. That wasn't the secondaries fault as much as proof that we need better production from other areas. I'm hoping that's what we'll see this year. A front line that doesn't give the QB time to figure out Rex's schemes (like the Jenks era). A secondary that doesn't have to carry the team, just has to hold its own (which I think it's capable of doing).

    Time will tell. It's foolish to say losing someone like Revis doesn't hurt the team, but between the fact that we didn't have him last year anyway, and there are multiple other upgrades to be expected on that side of the ball -- yeah, I think we could be in for something more special than what we saw during the Revis regime (green-glasses in full effect)

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    Not saying you personally, but Jet fans seem to suffer from "but we're not awesome everywhere!!" syndrome.

    You're right -- we're not as strong in the secondary as we used to be. Losing a guy like Revis will do that to you, and losing Landry only magnifies the problem. But there are plenty of successful teams out there that don't have elite secondaries. They find other ways to get the job done. Maybe they just outscore the opponent (don't see that happening here). Maybe they get pressure up front (my greatest wish for the upcoming year). Maybe they scheme well enough to confuse the offense so they can't take advantage of our deficiencies (supposedly a strength of Rex).

    Point is, I'm tired of an elite secondary making us look dominant on paper, when the eye test clearly shows we're not. With our "elite secondary" we still gave up third down conversions way too often. We still allowed last minute drives to be successful. We still gave QBs too much time to find holes that inevitably pop up in ANY defense. That wasn't the secondaries fault as much as proof that we need better production from other areas. I'm hoping that's what we'll see this year. A front line that doesn't give the QB time to figure out Rex's schemes (like the Jenks era). A secondary that doesn't have to carry the team, just has to hold its own (which I think it's capable of doing).

    Time will tell. It's foolish to say losing someone like Revis doesn't hurt the team, but between the fact that we didn't have him last year anyway, and there are multiple other upgrades to be expected on that side of the ball -- yeah, I think we could be in for something more special than what we saw during the Revis regime (green-glasses in full effect)
    You're right. The best secondary is a great pass rush.

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    The problem with viewpoints, such as DaBallHawk's, is that it doesn't allow for any improvement. The Jets drafted 2 safeties, last year, to develop. Bush can be a good cover safety.... he played some corner in college, he has the speed and ball skills to get it done. Allen played in the box, mostly, in college, but from what I've read, he's constantly challenging his coverage skills by lining up across from WRs, in practice..... he has the necessary athletic ability and ball skills to succeed at coverage. Both of these guys are just second year players, drafted late, as developmental guys..... to say, in their second year, that they can't get it done, is just ridiculous. They may or may not improve to the level that's necessary to be full time, productive starters.... but they can't be written off before we've even seen them play.

    FWIW, Landry (the one we lost) was not good in coverage. I know some people keep saying he was, but, the eye test and numbers don't bare it out.

  18. #18
    +1
    Didn't think Landry or Bell were great cover safeties

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    Not saying you personally, but Jet fans seem to suffer from "but we're not awesome everywhere!!" syndrome.

    You're right -- we're not as strong in the secondary as we used to be. Losing a guy like Revis will do that to you, and losing Landry only magnifies the problem. But there are plenty of successful teams out there that don't have elite secondaries. They find other ways to get the job done. Maybe they just outscore the opponent (don't see that happening here). Maybe they get pressure up front (my greatest wish for the upcoming year). Maybe they scheme well enough to confuse the offense so they can't take advantage of our deficiencies (supposedly a strength of Rex).

    Point is, I'm tired of an elite secondary making us look dominant on paper, when the eye test clearly shows we're not. With our "elite secondary" we still gave up third down conversions way too often. We still allowed last minute drives to be successful. We still gave QBs too much time to find holes that inevitably pop up in ANY defense. That wasn't the secondaries fault as much as proof that we need better production from other areas. I'm hoping that's what we'll see this year. A front line that doesn't give the QB time to figure out Rex's schemes (like the Jenks era). A secondary that doesn't have to carry the team, just has to hold its own (which I think it's capable of doing).

    Time will tell. It's foolish to say losing someone like Revis doesn't hurt the team, but between the fact that we didn't have him last year anyway, and there are multiple other upgrades to be expected on that side of the ball -- yeah, I think we could be in for something more special than what we saw during the Revis regime (green-glasses in full effect)
    but its not about being awesome everywhere. we have a center fielder in bush and a bunch of guys that struggle in coverage, why put 2 guys out there that cant cover and let bush back up landry? thats the issue i have. nobody is saying go sign ed reed or whatever so we can have the best defense on paper. we have a choice between having a centerfielder out there or somebody that cant cover. so why go with the one that cant cover? makes no sense. if the other guy was ed reed, then fine go with the guy that cant cover. but landry cant cover either, so why pick another guy that cant cover to be on the field at the same time? that to me makes no sense. unless rex thinks landry is great in coverage, then i guess it makes sense having jarrett/allen next to him but landry is one of the slowest safeties in the league and he's been getting burned like crazy in the past. whatever, i guess we'll see..

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBallhawk View Post
    but its not about being awesome everywhere. we have a center fielder in bush and a bunch of guys that struggle in coverage, why put 2 guys out there that cant cover and let bush back up landry? thats the issue i have. nobody is saying go sign ed reed or whatever so we can have the best defense on paper. we have a choice between having a centerfielder out there or somebody that cant cover. so why go with the one that cant cover? makes no sense. if the other guy was ed reed, then fine go with the guy that cant cover. but landry cant cover either, so why pick another guy that cant cover to be on the field at the same time? that to me makes no sense. unless rex thinks landry is great in coverage, then i guess it makes sense having jarrett/allen next to him but landry is one of the slowest safeties in the league and he's been getting burned like crazy in the past. whatever, i guess we'll see..
    Antonio Allen actually shut down every single tight end his last year in college at SC

    There is nothing that ever suggested he can't or doesn't have the ability and talent to cover, just that he never played a free safety role....he played more of an in the box/ hybrid position

    But I watched him every game in college and literally never saw him get burned over the top once.....in fact he was actually pretty good overall in pass coverage......And like I said before, made a living shutting down tight ends

    I think in our Nickel and Dime D we will probably shift Allen up (in the Eric Smith role) and bring in Josh Bush as the center fielder/FS.....But I guess on 1st downs Allen/Landry will start which is fine

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