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Thread: Cimini: "Anonymous Vet: Geno can do more than Sanchez"

  1. #21
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    All this means is that Cimini had some time in the offseason to ponder all the attention Manish generated for himself with his anonymously sourced bull**** stories.

  2. #22
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    The anonymous Vet is sg3.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    The anonymous Vet is sg3.
    Did he do it for the Rock?

  4. #24
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    I thought we cut Brandon Moore

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Harris View Post
    I thought we cut Brandon Moore
    We did but not Brandon Moore's ass apparently.

  6. #26
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    Is the anonymous source Manish?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Harris View Post
    I thought we cut Brandon Moore
    ================================================

    Actually, he played out his contract with the Jets, and the Jets have thus far not chosen to resign him.
    He remains a FA.

  8. #28
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    Back on topic to Geno:

    I remember watching the Grudden special on Geno and coach noting that Geno did a ton of stuff out of the pistol - most of it throwing, but with lots of interesting play action wrinkles too.

    As we read all this talk of read option possibilities with Geno, maybe that sort of work is what MM has in mind? If Geno is just coming to grips with traditional footwork timing coming up from center, why not sprinkle in some stuff he feels comfortable with too?

    (Ive seen a few folks dismiss use of pistol outright here so was just curious why?)

  9. #29
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    Its what like practice # 6. I mean give me a break. The NY media are a bunch of morons. Has rex been fired yet for not running a good walk through in the afternoon? Is Milner better then Revis yet? Is Ivory a major bust and Idzik in trouble with Woody because of Ivory and Goodson busts?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryu79 View Post
    Back on topic to Geno:

    I remember watching the Grudden special on Geno and coach noting that Geno did a ton of stuff out of the pistol - most of it throwing, but with lots of interesting play action wrinkles too.

    As we read all this talk of read option possibilities with Geno, maybe that sort of work is what MM has in mind? If Geno is just coming to grips with traditional footwork timing coming up from center, why not sprinkle in some stuff he feels comfortable with too?

    (Ive seen a few folks dismiss use of pistol outright here so was just curious why?)
    It's a systematic and personnel problem to run the pistol. WV ran the pistol at times, but out of an Air Raid system. Essentially, Geno's options were pre-snap, he either figures out what the defense is playing and if it's better to pass or give the ball to the runner. This works for them, because the offense is based on a myriad of throws, so teams have to favor the pass defense. By keeping two backs and sometimes three even (as mentioned in the Gruden video), what the defense has to decide is if they are actually running the ball or just distracting to get the ball to their top WRs.

    However, the Air Raid doesn't translate well to the NFL (the players are too fast) to consistently throw the ball. You need to catch them offguard enough for it to work. This is why even in pass heavy offenses, you see a lot of short screen passes because it's almost an extended handoff.

    So for the pistol to work effectively in the NFL, you need a running QB with excellent running skills, ala RGIII or Kapernick. But Geno Smith is not that elusive of a runner. He's more of a straight line runner, ala Luck or Rogers, that prefer to stay in the pocket and only take off when needed. So if you run the pistol spread option, when you run one way, you are eliminating one of your primary options which is having the QB keep it and run for it. Smith can run it, but not nearly as successful as the others and I doubt he hold up from all those hits. So the defensive line and attacking LBs can then focus in on the RBs and eliminate those options, and now we're sending a rookie QB into the pile with his main option being throwing as fast he can to any WR he sees in about a second. If it's RGIII, the defense has to move up the LBs enough on a consistent basis because he's an open field threat to take it to the house. Geno? More like 10-12 yards before someone chases him down.

    It just does't fit. Geno's more of a spread pocket guy, with 1 back, where he can hand off or just sit back there and try to dissect the defense.

  11. #31
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    after interning for a major sports publication I can assure you this wasn't said with any malice. It probably was said in a lighter way .. I mean what does "do more" actually mean?

    Cimini's desperately trying to reach here for a story. Think about it .. what the hell does "do more" mean. Geno can do MORE ... doesn't mean he's better. Thats like saying ... "well Cro can do more than Revis he can return, play receiver, he's taller" ... lol ... "doing more" is not a story. I think Sanchez would admit Geno has a stronger arm and is faster and within the confines of an NFL offense with the read/option and etc you can do a lot MORE with Geno. I think everyone knows this lol. Why the source chose to remain anonymous is probably cause he didn't want it to come off as disrespectful.

  12. #32
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iJ9VnfcOFw

    It's a throw from his pro-day, that hits the roof of the indoor facility there. Throw seems a bit off target like the guy was going to be out of bounds, but that is a pretty awesome arm though.

  13. #33
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    Anonymous Jet sources?!?


  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlairThomasFumble View Post
    Yawn. Weak sauce from Dick c.
    Dick c licks balls.

    Sanchez better start producing more consistently in camp. Good move by Idzik to promote competition everywhere on the team.

  15. #35
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    ****ing media and their ****ing agenda!! GFY Cimini!

    Seriously though, my guess is Winslow.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Win4ever View Post
    It's a systematic and personnel problem to run the pistol. WV ran the pistol at times, but out of an Air Raid system. Essentially, Geno's options were pre-snap, he either figures out what the defense is playing and if it's better to pass or give the ball to the runner. This works for them, because the offense is based on a myriad of throws, so teams have to favor the pass defense. By keeping two backs and sometimes three even (as mentioned in the Gruden video), what the defense has to decide is if they are actually running the ball or just distracting to get the ball to their top WRs.

    However, the Air Raid doesn't translate well to the NFL (the players are too fast) to consistently throw the ball. You need to catch them offguard enough for it to work. This is why even in pass heavy offenses, you see a lot of short screen passes because it's almost an extended handoff.

    So for the pistol to work effectively in the NFL, you need a running QB with excellent running skills, ala RGIII or Kapernick. But Geno Smith is not that elusive of a runner. He's more of a straight line runner, ala Luck or Rogers, that prefer to stay in the pocket and only take off when needed. So if you run the pistol spread option, when you run one way, you are eliminating one of your primary options which is having the QB keep it and run for it. Smith can run it, but not nearly as successful as the others and I doubt he hold up from all those hits. So the defensive line and attacking LBs can then focus in on the RBs and eliminate those options, and now we're sending a rookie QB into the pile with his main option being throwing as fast he can to any WR he sees in about a second. If it's RGIII, the defense has to move up the LBs enough on a consistent basis because he's an open field threat to take it to the house. Geno? More like 10-12 yards before someone chases him down.

    It just does't fit. Geno's more of a spread pocket guy, with 1 back, where he can hand off or just sit back there and try to dissect the defense.
    I personally disagree about the pistol not being a fit for geno.

    First off, the pistol was designed as a running formation - it evolved into what kapernick, wilson and RG are running now as the QBs were simply better runners.

    The key for a pistol QB is decision making - being able to calmly look at the DE, and make a fast read of whether or not to keep it or give the ball to the RB. Once the QB decides to run though, its about speed making it to the edge and Geno absolutely has the speed to do that. He simply didnt run the ball much in college.

    While I would have loved to see us hire Chris Ault (pistol originator) as a consultant like the chiefs did I still think David Lee are smart enough and know the nuances of the wildcat (yes I know its very different) to develop a very solid Pistol package.

    Lastly the thing that I like about it most for our personnel, is that instead of running it with 1 RB behind Geno and 1 FB or HBack in the backfield, I think we can run it with a mcknight/goodson/ivory behind Geno and Powell or Ivory in the full back role as they are decent blockers and can give us 2 backs out of the backfield if we simply have Geno go back to pass out of the short shot gun.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    I personally disagree about the pistol not being a fit for geno.

    First off, the pistol was designed as a running formation - it evolved into what kapernick, wilson and RG are running now as the QBs were simply better runners.

    The key for a pistol QB is decision making - being able to calmly look at the DE, and make a fast read of whether or not to keep it or give the ball to the RB. Once the QB decides to run though, its about speed making it to the edge and Geno absolutely has the speed to do that. He simply didnt run the ball much in college.

    While I would have loved to see us hire Chris Ault (pistol originator) as a consultant like the chiefs did I still think David Lee are smart enough and know the nuances of the wildcat (yes I know its very different) to develop a very solid Pistol package.

    Lastly the thing that I like about it most for our personnel, is that instead of running it with 1 RB behind Geno and 1 FB or HBack in the backfield, I think we can run it with a mcknight/goodson/ivory behind Geno and Powell or Ivory in the full back role as they are decent blockers and can give us 2 backs out of the backfield if we simply have Geno go back to pass out of the short shot gun.
    True, and it allows the RB to take the hand off in a more traditional manner with his momentum going forward as opposed to the traditional shot gun formation. Most NFL RBs would prefer running out of the pistol than the shot gun.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    I personally disagree about the pistol not being a fit for geno.

    First off, the pistol was designed as a running formation - it evolved into what kapernick, wilson and RG are running now as the QBs were simply better runners.

    The key for a pistol QB is decision making - being able to calmly look at the DE, and make a fast read of whether or not to keep it or give the ball to the RB. Once the QB decides to run though, its about speed making it to the edge and Geno absolutely has the speed to do that. He simply didnt run the ball much in college.

    While I would have loved to see us hire Chris Ault (pistol originator) as a consultant like the chiefs did I still think David Lee are smart enough and know the nuances of the wildcat (yes I know its very different) to develop a very solid Pistol package.

    Lastly the thing that I like about it most for our personnel, is that instead of running it with 1 RB behind Geno and 1 FB or HBack in the backfield, I think we can run it with a mcknight/goodson/ivory behind Geno and Powell or Ivory in the full back role as they are decent blockers and can give us 2 backs out of the backfield if we simply have Geno go back to pass out of the short shot gun.
    and rolling out should also open up some quick strike passing lanes too.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    I personally disagree about the pistol not being a fit for geno.

    First off, the pistol was designed as a running formation - it evolved into what kapernick, wilson and RG are running now as the QBs were simply better runners.

    The key for a pistol QB is decision making - being able to calmly look at the DE, and make a fast read of whether or not to keep it or give the ball to the RB. Once the QB decides to run though, its about speed making it to the edge and Geno absolutely has the speed to do that. He simply didnt run the ball much in college.

    While I would have loved to see us hire Chris Ault (pistol originator) as a consultant like the chiefs did I still think David Lee are smart enough and know the nuances of the wildcat (yes I know its very different) to develop a very solid Pistol package.

    Lastly the thing that I like about it most for our personnel, is that instead of running it with 1 RB behind Geno and 1 FB or HBack in the backfield, I think we can run it with a mcknight/goodson/ivory behind Geno and Powell or Ivory in the full back role as they are decent blockers and can give us 2 backs out of the backfield if we simply have Geno go back to pass out of the short shot gun.
    I think Geno is fast, but I don't think Geno is elusive like the guys that need to run the pistol offense though. Pretty much all of his runs are into open space, or being chased out of the pocket. Guys like RGIII and Kapernick run more elusively and can multiple defenders miss, but I didn't see much of that from Geno in his runs last year.

    Running Geno like that, most likely leads to him getting hurt, because I think defenders can square him up more often than not.

    If we're just going to run it out from the pistol, via the RB, then I can understand why we would do it. But I think running the option with Geno would be a mistake. If he could make people miss like RGIII, then I would be all for it. But this is ofcourse, arm chair scouting by me, I could be wrong, lol.

    However, if we avoid putting Geno in a read option, this could be the perfect transition because it still allows him some space to work with without having to backpedal, he's familiar with it, and still keeps the running game in play. I just don't like the idea of Geno running.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Win4ever View Post
    I think Geno is fast, but I don't think Geno is elusive like the guys that need to run the pistol offense though. Pretty much all of his runs are into open space, or being chased out of the pocket. Guys like RGIII and Kapernick run more elusively and can multiple defenders miss, but I didn't see much of that from Geno in his runs last year.

    Running Geno like that, most likely leads to him getting hurt, because I think defenders can square him up more often than not.

    If we're just going to run it out from the pistol, via the RB, then I can understand why we would do it. But I think running the option with Geno would be a mistake. If he could make people miss like RGIII, then I would be all for it. But this is ofcourse, arm chair scouting by me, I could be wrong, lol.

    However, if we avoid putting Geno in a read option, this could be the perfect transition because it still allows him some space to work with without having to backpedal, he's familiar with it, and still keeps the running game in play. I just don't like the idea of Geno running.
    If you want to discuss Geno's possible frail build holding up running to often, thats a very valid point but the thing about the pistol is the fact that elusiveness is actually not important, because if run correctly, the QB has only 1 man to beat and its in the open field. If the DE freezes, and the lane is there, its actually a rare situation where straight line speed is more valuable than "3 cone" quickness.

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