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Thread: Charter Schools,

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    This thread is not about what you think is unfair about the teaching proffesion as compared to other jobs. I'd really like to stick to the subject but will address your post

    Good lord, you are so disconnected from current school systems its frightening. Where do I start?

    You want teachers to work a full year? Did you ever here of summer school? Camps run at public schools? When do you think a teacher gets the time to complete their masters and other numerous workshops that are mandatory? You are dillusional to think that school is not year round, it's up to the parent if they want their kid in a classroom or camp all year round. BTW, have you ever seen students in a classroom in May and June? They are burnt out beyond belief, but hey who cares right you are more of an expert on the psychology of a child more that an educator right?

    Golden benefit package? Are you upset that cops, firemen, and sanitation have better? Same vacation time and they get to choose when they want to take it. Retirement? Cop, fire, and sanitation, twenty years, full retirement. Teacher? Thirty.

    Good teachers allow their stu.dents to make choices when it comes to politics. Have you read the "read alouds" for the state exams? Of course you haven't because the public is not aloud access. Well I can tell you it full propaganda to never question your government and be a good soldier. It's pathetic, but you wouldn't know, nor anyone because the govnment is hiding this from you.

    You don't want unions? You seem like a smart guy. We witnessed what this countries elite did to its people before unions. Enough said, I have documented history on my side.

    Cops, firemen, and sanitation workers who work in the inner city are not asked to by their own uniforms and supplies to do their jobs but it seems fine with you that teachers are? And you want the school system to improve? Dillusional

    You are somehow under the false idea that somehow I cannot be fired because of tenure. All tenure does is protectme from being fired unjustly. So big business and government can't swoop in and place unqualified teachers in the classroom to teach your kids.

    You want teachers to be treated like everyone else? Really? Like being able to use the bathroom wen they need?Choose their own vacations? Not have to work every weekend? Leave the job totally at quitting time? And not be blamed for the recession by the people who caused it?

    I take most of your post as a rant at something you are more angry at, like maybe your own job?

    Next you'll be saying that most of my spanish speaking students have deformed calfs from carrying too much pot across the desert
    All public sector pensions are unsustainable. Not just teachers. Also 30 year retirement? So say you get your career going age 25, you can cash out at 55. Not sustainable when those of us in the private sector have to put away on our own and now work until 67.5 and probably 70 by the time I would be eligible.

  2. #22
    [QUOTE=Churchill;4938287t
    --I want real, private-setor-like, competititon and evaluation of Teachers performance, with real repurcussions for poor work and failing. I want tenure removed completely.

    Basicly, I want Teachers to be treated like we treat almost every other job in AMerica today. Just compensation for just work, real evaluation, real competition, real limits of bias at the workplace, firings of bad teachers and a full year of labor for a full years pay.[/QUOTE]

    Not so easy huh?

    http://atthechalkface.com/2013/08/01/control-for-this/


    Control for this!
    AUGUST 1, 2013 BY TIMOTHY D. SLEKAR 8 COMMENTS

    Last night my wife had a totally different idea than I about how to handle a parenting situation. I insisted that my “Dad way” was needed. My wife simply looked at me (the wrong way) and I decided to loudly (yell) say that I “was sick of being undermined when it comes to being a father.” My wife forcefully stated that as long as I kept “yelling” at her she would not continue the conversation—she turned and walked out of the room. This of course led me to go to the kitchen and start “cleaning” by emptying the dishwasher and essentially throwing things in cabinets and cupboards and creating the noise level of a passing train (Why do the dishes take so much abuse when spouses fight?).

    Of course my wife emerged forcefully from the other room and let me know that she didn’t appreciate my emptying the dishwasher. “Fine!” “Fine!”

    Enter my daughter. She was outside being a ten year old (totally oblivious to the fact that my wife and I were engaged in the most important disagreement (stupid argument) ever entered into by husband and wife. We tried the fake “oh hi honey. Did you have fun outside?” She knew. Anybody that walked into our kitchen at that moment would have known. Mom and Dad were fighting.
    My daughter asked us to stop and just “forgive each other.” She wanted us “all to get along and be happy.” She didn’t understand why we just couldn’t “stop it.” In a moment of clarity my wife and I both comforted our daughter and put aside our differences. We had dinner. Watched some stupid television shows. And went to bed.

    In the morning I went to the kitchen to get coffee for my wife (not flowers I know but still a peace offering). I was greeted with a snarly “thanks” and the look (You know the look? The look that says “Thanks for the coffee, but you’re still an ass.”). I didn’t have time to offer my true apology for “yelling” and “emptying” the dishwasher (I had to get my daughter ready for school). So on my way to get my daughter I of course offered those universal words of compassion and understanding—“Great here we go again.” For some reason this failed (like it always does) to calm the tensions between my wife and me and the within seconds we were back to a loud “discussion” about absolutely nothing meaningful.

    Enter my daughter again. Standing in the doorway of bedroom with tears in her eyes she looked at us and said, “I thought everything was OK. I thought we were a happy family. This is going to be a horrible day.” She ran back to her room. I of course did what any great father would do. I looked at my wife and asked if she “was going to help our daughter?” The look was enough. I immediately went to my daughter and talked to her. I explained that it was OK and that “Mommy and Daddy just weren’t agreeing on something” (something stupid of course). I wiped her tears and let her get ready for school. I went out and made breakfast and my wife and daughter joined me at the table (Of course my wife and I were doing our best to avoid eye contact because God knows that if one of us were to give “that look” we would immediately start emptying the dishwasher.

    After breakfast I got my stuff ready for work and helped my daughter gather her belongings (I drive her to school on most days). We both said goodbye to my wife (my daughter got a hug and I got a brief peck on the cheek minus any eye contact). On the way to school my daughter had a small tear on her cheek. I asked her what was bothering her. She quickly responded that she “hated it when you and Mommy fight.” I reassured her (again) that it was not a fight but a small disagreement and that “Mommy and I are fine.” We got to her school. I gave her a hug and a kiss. She walked into her school. I drove away to work.

    End of story right? Of course not. Here’s what happened during the day for my daughter. After being greeted warmly by her teacher, my daughter did her morning work and then got ready for THE TEST. You know THE TEST. She took THE TEST. She finished THE TEST. And of course she bombed THE TEST! Why? Good question considering her intelligence exceeds my own. So why did she bomb THE TEST? Simple. Her mother and father were acting like jackasses!

    Someone has to ask this question:

    What Value Added Model (VAM) score of teacher effectiveness can “control” for parents that act like jackasses?

    Someone has to answer the question:

    IT DOESN’T EXIST!

    Therefore the use of VAMs has no ethical, practical, or experimental value.

    Think about it. My daughter’s teacher (because of VAM use in mandated teacher effectiveness measures) was going to be held “accountable” for the action of two jackass parents—not for being an effective teacher. Now think about this. This sad story (while extremely significant and traumatic at the time to my daughter) is just an example of real life in a middle class household with two loving, suburban parents guilty of being human.

    What about the child that took THE TEST hungry?
    What about the child that took THE TEST sick?
    What about the child that took THE TEST homeless?
    What about the child that took THE TEST after visiting their father in jail?
    What about the child that took THE TEST after witnessing violence?
    What about the child that took THE TEST after a night of sexual abuse?
    What about the child that took THE TEST as a runaway?

    Someone has to shout this:

    What Value Added Models can “control” for the runaway train of traumatic experiences that kids bring to to schools every day? !!!

    Follow Tim Slekar on Twitter: @slekar
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    FILED UNDER: TIM SLEKAR: SOMEONE HAS TO SAY IT! TAGGED WITH: TEACHER EFFECTIVENESS, VALUE-ADDED MODELS, VAMS

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    Not so easy huh?

    http://atthechalkface.com/2013/08/01/control-for-this/


    Control for this!
    AUGUST 1, 2013 BY TIMOTHY D. SLEKAR 8 COMMENTS

    Last night my wife had a totally different idea than I about how to handle a parenting situation. I insisted that my “Dad way” was needed. My wife simply looked at me (the wrong way) and I decided to loudly (yell) say that I “was sick of being undermined when it comes to being a father.” My wife forcefully stated that as long as I kept “yelling” at her she would not continue the conversation—she turned and walked out of the room. This of course led me to go to the kitchen and start “cleaning” by emptying the dishwasher and essentially throwing things in cabinets and cupboards and creating the noise level of a passing train (Why do the dishes take so much abuse when spouses fight?).

    Of course my wife emerged forcefully from the other room and let me know that she didn’t appreciate my emptying the dishwasher. “Fine!” “Fine!”

    Enter my daughter. She was outside being a ten year old (totally oblivious to the fact that my wife and I were engaged in the most important disagreement (stupid argument) ever entered into by husband and wife. We tried the fake “oh hi honey. Did you have fun outside?” She knew. Anybody that walked into our kitchen at that moment would have known. Mom and Dad were fighting.
    My daughter asked us to stop and just “forgive each other.” She wanted us “all to get along and be happy.” She didn’t understand why we just couldn’t “stop it.” In a moment of clarity my wife and I both comforted our daughter and put aside our differences. We had dinner. Watched some stupid television shows. And went to bed.

    In the morning I went to the kitchen to get coffee for my wife (not flowers I know but still a peace offering). I was greeted with a snarly “thanks” and the look (You know the look? The look that says “Thanks for the coffee, but you’re still an ass.”). I didn’t have time to offer my true apology for “yelling” and “emptying” the dishwasher (I had to get my daughter ready for school). So on my way to get my daughter I of course offered those universal words of compassion and understanding—“Great here we go again.” For some reason this failed (like it always does) to calm the tensions between my wife and me and the within seconds we were back to a loud “discussion” about absolutely nothing meaningful.

    Enter my daughter again. Standing in the doorway of bedroom with tears in her eyes she looked at us and said, “I thought everything was OK. I thought we were a happy family. This is going to be a horrible day.” She ran back to her room. I of course did what any great father would do. I looked at my wife and asked if she “was going to help our daughter?” The look was enough. I immediately went to my daughter and talked to her. I explained that it was OK and that “Mommy and Daddy just weren’t agreeing on something” (something stupid of course). I wiped her tears and let her get ready for school. I went out and made breakfast and my wife and daughter joined me at the table (Of course my wife and I were doing our best to avoid eye contact because God knows that if one of us were to give “that look” we would immediately start emptying the dishwasher.

    After breakfast I got my stuff ready for work and helped my daughter gather her belongings (I drive her to school on most days). We both said goodbye to my wife (my daughter got a hug and I got a brief peck on the cheek minus any eye contact). On the way to school my daughter had a small tear on her cheek. I asked her what was bothering her. She quickly responded that she “hated it when you and Mommy fight.” I reassured her (again) that it was not a fight but a small disagreement and that “Mommy and I are fine.” We got to her school. I gave her a hug and a kiss. She walked into her school. I drove away to work.

    End of story right? Of course not. Here’s what happened during the day for my daughter. After being greeted warmly by her teacher, my daughter did her morning work and then got ready for THE TEST. You know THE TEST. She took THE TEST. She finished THE TEST. And of course she bombed THE TEST! Why? Good question considering her intelligence exceeds my own. So why did she bomb THE TEST? Simple. Her mother and father were acting like jackasses!

    Someone has to ask this question:

    What Value Added Model (VAM) score of teacher effectiveness can “control” for parents that act like jackasses?

    Someone has to answer the question:

    IT DOESN’T EXIST!

    Therefore the use of VAMs has no ethical, practical, or experimental value.

    Think about it. My daughter’s teacher (because of VAM use in mandated teacher effectiveness measures) was going to be held “accountable” for the action of two jackass parents—not for being an effective teacher. Now think about this. This sad story (while extremely significant and traumatic at the time to my daughter) is just an example of real life in a middle class household with two loving, suburban parents guilty of being human.

    What about the child that took THE TEST hungry?
    What about the child that took THE TEST sick?
    What about the child that took THE TEST homeless?
    What about the child that took THE TEST after visiting their father in jail?
    What about the child that took THE TEST after witnessing violence?
    What about the child that took THE TEST after a night of sexual abuse?
    What about the child that took THE TEST as a runaway?

    Someone has to shout this:

    What Value Added Models can “control” for the runaway train of traumatic experiences that kids bring to to schools every day? !!!

    Follow Tim Slekar on Twitter: @slekar
    About these ads

    Share this with others:
    Share
    Like this:
    FILED UNDER: TIM SLEKAR: SOMEONE HAS TO SAY IT! TAGGED WITH: TEACHER EFFECTIVENESS, VALUE-ADDED MODELS, VAMS
    Man has argument with teenage daughter. She wants to stay out late, he wants curfew at 9PM. This argument has been going on for months. Also his wife is going through menopause. Very moody, argues about the most minor of issues. His son starts hanging out with the wrong crowd. Adds to his stress and angst.

    Needless to say it has been affecting his performance at work. He has not met his sales numbers the last 6 months partly because of the downturn in the economy, partly because he has not been on his game. Man called into his Sales Manager's office. Man given Pink Slip because he has not met the sales goals, not entirely his doing. If only he was a teacher, the Union would have kept him from getting fired.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    This thread is not about what you think
    I am well aware you don't care what I, or anyone else who pays your salary with our taxes, thinks.

    You want teachers to work a full year?
    Yes, and your excuse-making does not change that opinion. Year round school would at current salary costs would be both better for our students, and a more appropriate compensation level for the work being done.

    Golden benefit package? Are you upset that cops, firemen, and sanitation have better?
    No, cops and firemen risk their lives.

    Teacher? Teachers are over-rated babysitters and out-dated information distribution systems, frankly. If we were truly an advanced society, most teachers would have already been replaced by computers and an IT-based education system that distributes the effort of the select few elite teachers.

    But again, teachers are no cops or firemen. Most cops and firemen would be offended that you think you're their equal in the difficulty of work.

    Good teachers allow their students to make choices when it comes to politics.
    Bull****. Public Education is no place for politics and political indoctrination, which happens, alot, in our current public schools and you damn well know it. You probably do it yourself, given how deeply political and union-loyal you are, you simply can't help yourself. And be assured, you should be fired for it.

    You don't want unions?
    I side with FDR, no Public Sector Unions. Private Sector can unionize all it wants, although I do support right-to-work States like my own.

    You are somehow under the false idea that somehow I cannot be fired
    Americans chools average (gve or take) 1-3% termination of teachers for poor performance each year. I'd like to see that at 10% minimum, and thats being generous. There is far more than 10% of your lot who suck dick at their jobs.

    You want teachers to be treated like everyone else? Really? Like being able to use the bathroom when they need?
    Apparently teachers are unable to manage their own piss, eh? You're right, we should pay you more for your incontience.

    Choose their own vacations? Not have to work every weekend? Leave the job totally at quitting time?
    HAve two months off in the summer? Don't actually "work" any weekends at all. Wouldn't have to work evenings if they didn't piss about in their free periods during the day?

    Cry me a river, I worked today and will work tomorrow as well, after puting in more hours in three days than the average teacher puts in in a week. You clearly have no idea what working in the real world is like. Teacher right out of college, eh?

    I take most of your post as a rant at something you are more angry at, like maybe your own job?
    No qustion, the work I do requires vastly more education that what you do, is harder, takes more effort, more time and more skill, and works a full year, and gets paid less with less benefits.

    I am fairly compensated for my education level and work diffiuclties. You're not as I see it, you're overpaid and underworked and reek of entitlement and self-importance, your whining and groaning is offensive to me, and many other taxpayers like me, who actually do real work you're incappable of doing for a living under performance pressures you're incappable of withstanding and unwilling to accept. That you seem to think I, and those like me, somehow owe you even more....disgusting.

    The quality of you abd your ilks work shows in the failure of the American education system to keep up. You blame some amorphous "big business", I blame you and your anti-progress, anti-efficientcy, pro-extortion Union. Just like with other Union dominated industries in America, you demand far more compenation than you're worth, and you slowly destory the industry within which you work. And like the auto industy, for example, the American public school trough will eventually come to an end, because it's economicly untenable. We cannot afford expensive, poor performing teachers forever. So enjoy it while it lasts mate, because the day will come when you may just have to work for a living....like the rest of us. We'll see how mcuh you complain then.

    Simple as that in my book.

  5. #25
    http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...ichelle-malkin


    AUGUST 2, 2013 12:00 AM
    Jeb’s Education Racket
    The former Florida governor and his GOP cronies have lowered standards and increased corruption.
    By Michelle Malkin


    Former Florida education commissioner Tony Bennett

    The resignation of Florida education commissioner Tony Bennett couldn’t have come at a better time. His disgraceful grade-fixing scandal is the perfect symbol of all that’s wrong with the federal education schemes peddled by Bennett and his mentor, former GOP governor Jeb Bush: phony academic standards, crony contracts, and big-government and big-business collusion masquerading as “reform.”

    Bennett stepped down Thursday after the Associated Press reported that he had meddled with charter-school accountability ratings in Indiana last fall while serving as that state’s schools superintendent. The beneficiary of his intervention? Big GOP donor and charter-school operator Christel DeHaan, who has forked over nearly $3 million to Republicans (including $130,000 to Bennett).

    DeHaan’s Christel House Academy charter school magically went from a “C” rating to an “A” rating despite failing tenth-grade math scores. An abysmal 33 percent of the school’s tenth-grade Algebra I students passed. Note: The school uses the widely panned elementary-level Everyday Math curriculum (which I’ve exposed in previous columns) and a newfangled secondary program called the Carnegie Learning Math Series, whose website prominently brags that its “courses were developed to align to the Common Core State Standards for Mathematics.” More on that in a moment.
    E-mails showed that Bennett was far more concerned about how a low grade would look than about maintaining the integrity of the grading system. Evaluators “need to understand that anything less than an ‘A’ for Christel House compromises all of our accountability work,” Bennett complained. “This will be a HUGE problem for us,” he worried in another message obtained by the AP.

    Cronyism and corruption come in all political stripes and colors. As a conservative parent of children educated at public charter schools, I am especially appalled by these pocket-lining GOP elites who are giving grassroots education reformers a bad name and cashing in on their betrayal of limited-government principles.

    It turns out that Bennett’s wife was hired by an outfit called “Charter Schools USA” to serve as a regional director in Florida. The group just happens to be the same one Bennett contracted with to operate schools in Indianapolis that the state had taken over. The Indianapolis Star reported: “Tina Bennett is now earning a paycheck from the company her husband handpicked to take over schools in Indiana, a decision that was very good for the company’s financial fortunes.” Like the Church Lady said: How conveeeenient!

    Excellent charter schools across the country have a hard time as it is battling hostile public-employee unions and far-left detractors. This dirty government scandal makes the fight for local and parental choice in education all the more difficult. Education analyst Jim Stergios at the Pioneer Institute sums up the damage caused: It’s “bad for accountability, for the public trust, and for education reform.”

    Amen. But instead of condemning his actions, the tone-deaf, ethics-blind Jeb Bush heaped praise on Bennett for his “leadership” after his resignation. Bush’s nonprofit vehicle, the Foundation for Excellence in Education, chimed in as well, calling Bennett a “bold champion for students” and “a good man and a good friend.”

    These good ol’ boys bonded over their zeal for the top-down racket known as Common Core. As I’ve reported previously, this Fed Ed program is supported by both big-business interests (Microsoft founder Bill Gates and News Corp. founder Rupert Murdoch’s education arm) and government educrats. Progressive activists in both parties have worked on nationalized standards, tests, and curricula for decades under previous names: outcome-based education, national school-to-work, Goals 2000, and No Child Left Behind, for example. Obama-administration bribery through “Race to the Top” greased the wheels for adoption of the Common Core program by cash-strapped states, many of which had more rigorous standards than the fed-imposed system.

    Common Core cheerleaders falsely claimed that untested standards were “internationally benchmarked.” Math and English standards have been dumbed down. And a plethora of data-mining firms stand to gain billions from student information gathered under the Common Core assessments umbrella. The Obama administration’s sabotage of federal educational-privacy protections will help supply that data to the highest crony bidders.

    After Bennett was voted out of office in Indiana last fall over his efforts to ram the phony “standards” and nationalized testing scheme through, Team Jeb came to the rescue. In addition to greasing the wheels for the Florida schools’ chief job, Bush’s foundation named Bennett one of its “Chiefs for Change.” That group champions Common Core, and many of its members are part of a behemoth, federally funded testing consortium called PARCC (the Partnership for Assessment of Readiness for College and Careers), which raked in $186 million through Race to the Top to develop nationalized tests “aligned” to the top-down Common Core program.

    Bush’s foundation has now joined with the Common Core–peddling Fordham Institute under a new phony-baloney umbrella group: “Conservatives for Higher Standards.” While its list of supporters includes federal bureaucrats, politicians, and business interests, there are no grassroots groups of conservative parents or teachers. So beware of this “conservative” front. And remember: Astroturfing runs in the Bush family. Under George W. Bush, the federal Department of Education paid GOP mouthpiece/columnist Armstrong Williams to shill for No Child Left Behind.

    Heather Crossin, a conservative Indiana mom who helped spearhead the drive to eject Bennett from office and reject Common Core in her state, put it best. She told me after the latest crony-Republican education scandal this week: “This situation illustrates why it is crucial that parents be reinserted into the decision-making process when it comes to the education of their children. When their voices and concerns take a backseat to ‘command and control’ approaches to ed reform, the public trust can easily be broken.”

    It’s elementary.

    — Michelle Malkin is the author of Culture of Corruption: Obama and His Team of Tax Cheats, Crooks & Cronies. © 2013 Creators.com
    Last edited by copernicus; 08-04-2013 at 01:36 AM.

  6. #26
    COP...

    What I find so disingenious is that people with your position behave like you know better.

    The masses have spoken and MANY MANY people want charter schools. Many want private schools (I used them for my kids) many home school.

    What gives teachers unions the right to limit choice? especially when public education is failing at every turn.


    On the pension issue... the real comparison is public teachers to private teachers.

    Our pension system is broken. we have 2 cops who retire (hypothetical) and one gets a 40K pension and the other 100K? Same job?
    They deserve to be taken care of no doubt...but the current system is killing the taxpayer. Young talented kids leave NY and NJ by the thousands due to the tax burden.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    What gives teachers unions the right to limit choice?
    In a perfect world, every parent of a school-age child would recieve a tax credit for that child's education.

    They could then take that credit, and choose how to spend it.

    -If they want public school, it would remain, as a free 100% Govt. paid choice. The parent could use their credit to help level the playing field by spending it towards their child's education needs, books, computers, ect.

    -If they want private/charter school, they could apply their credit to the cost of private tuition.

    -If they want home schooling, they could utilize that credit towards the tools and supplies required for proper hom schooling.

    I would suggest the time, technologicly, has come where the old style of school has also become a wasteful anachronism, like a caboose on a train.

    We live in an e-world today, where the best and most effectiev teachers could, via technology, wide-distribute their teachings to thousands of kids at their homes or in schools, wherever is best for them, thus increasing the quality of the teaching. Parents could choose a format they prefer, home-online or school-online, where the staff are not teachers per se, but social behavioural minders there to oversee the operations and behaviors, not to teach.

    These elite teachers teaching thousands at once would be worth their weight in gold, worth as much as any actor, sportsman or the like, and under a system of tax credits, could make huge amounts of money for their efforts. I am convinced someone will explore this in the not too distant future....unless the iron grip of the teachers union can get legislation passed to bar it and/or bar any funding for it.

    It's time IMO we look for new solutions and new ways of doing business when it comes to education, because today we spend alot to get very little back. We can do better.

  8. #28
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    Can we call copernicus "UFTbot5000"?

  9. #29
    RMan has argument with teenage daughter. She wants to stay out late, he wants curfew at 9PM. This argument has been going on for months. Also his wife is going through menopause. Very moody, argues about the most minor of issues. His son starts hanging out with the wrong crowd. Adds to his stress and angst.

    Needless to say it has been affecting his performance at work. He has not met his sales numbers the last 6 months partly because of the downturn in the economy, partly because he has not been on his game. Man called into his Sales Manager's office. Man given Pink Slip because he has not met the sales goals, not entirely his doing. If only he was a teacher, the Union would have kept him from getting fired.



    It's the man's family! It's HIS issues. The teacher's evaluation should have nothing to do with someone else's family's issues. Good Lord
    Last edited by copernicus; 08-05-2013 at 04:16 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    The teacher's evaluation should have nothing to do with someone else's family's issues.
    So if a Teacher's evaluation shouldn't be about standardized testing and it shouldn't be about students grades, in your perfect world, please spell out exactly WHAT a teacher's evaluation should be about and should be based on?

    What are your criteria? Attendance?

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    Right, I'm sure it's an isolated case.......:rolleyes

    Even when it's is so blatantly obvious you simply ignore the fact that politicians and big business are working hand in hand to make huge profits off the backs of school children all the while demoralizing them.

    So ignorant to what is going on.
    Huge profits, huh? This country has thrown an INSANE amount of cash at the public education system for decades, with ever more crappy results. If those dollars had all gone towards legitimately educating our children, our students would make Chinese kids look like Ralphie from the Simpsons in comparison. But waste, fraud and abuse -- and outright theft -- by the unions and countless on-the-take (or at-the-trough?) vendors and suppliers screwed American schoolchildren horribly. There are plenty of great teachers out there doing their best within the system, but the ones like yourself -- who defend what is CLEARLY a disastrous system -- get no sympathy from me.

    Charter schools are a great option.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by shakin318 View Post
    Huge profits, huh? This country has thrown an INSANE amount of cash at the public education system for decades, with ever more crappy results. If those dollars had all gone towards legitimately educating our children, our students would make Chinese kids look like Ralphie from the Simpsons in comparison. But waste, fraud and abuse -- and outright theft -- by the unions and countless on-the-take (or at-the-trough?) vendors and suppliers screwed American schoolchildren horribly. There are plenty of great teachers out there doing their best within the system, but the ones like yourself -- who defend what is CLEARLY a disastrous system -- get no sympathy from me.

    Charter schools are a great option.
    Do you even understand the concept of public school?

    Do you understand what a charter school is?

    The concept of public school is that students are supposed to get an education that is free from any political and business angle. Charter schools are funded by huge corporations like Walmart. Do you think that the charter school funded by Walmart will even touch the subject of workers rights? You think the charter school funded by Verizon will dig deep into the link between cell phones and brain cancer? Or how about the charter run by Mobil teaching students about alternative energy? The idea flies in the face of protecting students from being bought by corporate America.

    Charter schools hand pick their students. It's clear that the lottery systems are rigged. The charter school takes all the good students from the neighborhood and leaves the terrible ones for the real teachers in public school to deal with. You see, teachers in charter schools have no union so there are no rules with highering. There are certain criteria that all public school teachers need to complete before they can even step into a classroom. The charter schools does not. Unlicensed teachers teach in charter schools, friends of friends of friends. It's corrupt. Even worse, if a child is struggling in a charter school, and there is a good chance that the students grades on standardized tests make the charter school look bad, they are given threatening letters that they must transfer immediatley or risk being left back. And yes, the score on the standardized test is connected to the public school teacher where the student transferred to, not the charter school teacher who taught him all year.

    Charter schools use publicly funded buildings tax free! Why? Do you ink Walmart, Verizon, and Home Depot shouldnt pay rent? Have the ability to sell their idea to hundreds of kids each day AND have their rent paid by you and I?

    Please inform yourself fully before spouting off about how great charter schools are.

    In light of the charter school scandal at such a high level of government with Tony Bennett and Jeb Bush that has been uncovered isn't it time we investigate what is really happening across this country in regards to charter schools?
    Last edited by copernicus; 08-05-2013 at 07:32 PM.

  13. #33
    COP..... You would excel in the old Soviet Union.

    Your condescending tone to fairly educated people like we are stupid speaks volumes about your
    Understanding. We are parents, BOTH my children and myself are more than likely more educated than 90 percent
    Of public school teachers.

    Any option over standard public schools is welcomemIMO.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    COP..... You would excel in the old Soviet Union.

    Your condescending tone to fairly educated people like we are stupid speaks volumes about your
    Understanding. We are parents, BOTH my children and myself are more than likely more educated than 90 percent
    Of public school teachers
    .

    Any option over standard public schools is welcomemIMO.
    These two bolded portions of your comment are fairly ironic.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyn Jet View Post
    These two bolded portions of your comment are fairly ironic.
    I'm on a shltty IPAD version one..... No spell check and I'm also in a meeting but very cute on your part.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    Do you even understand the concept of public school?

    The concept of public school is that students are supposed to get an education that is free from any political and business angle.
    How you can type this with a straight face in light of all the left wing indoctrinating tripe that passes for a public school "education" is downright hilarious.

    And Mr. public school teacher, defender of superior education, it's "hiring," not "highering."

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by shakin318 View Post
    How you can type this with a straight face in light of all the left wing indoctrinating tripe that passes for a public school "education" is downright hilarious.

    And Mr. public school teacher, defender of superior education, it's "hiring," not "highering."
    You and most Americans fell for "the sky is falling" message that conservatives spoke about how bad the public school system was in the US.

    Simple scare tactics bombarded every night on the news about our failing schools and how most teachers needed to be fired and were making way too much money.

    Most Americans believe what they see on the news and it was bi g business and politicians working hand in hand to uncover one of the last untapped resources........the American public schools system.

    Now all the money spent on education goes directly to testing companies. Congrats, your mentality has made companies like Pearson very wealthy. Did you read the article about Tony Bennet and how the money runs right through his personal financial interests in education? Pathetic.

    It was the words of politicians and backing of Bush's No Child Left Behind that scared Americans into thinking that over testing children was better than actually teaching them. The other message was that all teachers were incompetent and not trust worthy.

    Good job Americans, can't wait to hear these kids as adults telling everyOne how crappy their education was because the people of this country aloud the CEOs of Walmart and Bill Gates to design their curriculums rather than trained educators.

    Ask yourself, how could the public school system be as bad as politicians proclaim they were when we were coming off such great economic times under Clinton?

    Something had to be working right .
    Last edited by copernicus; 08-05-2013 at 11:17 PM.

  18. #38
    How about saving the billion we invest in testing and put it back in the classroom. Go back to allowing the trained administrators who were former teachers evaluate them through classroom observations, just like in the past.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    In a perfect world, every parent of a school-age child would recieve a tax credit for that child's education.

    They could then take that credit, and choose how to spend it.

    -If they want public school, it would remain, as a free 100% Govt. paid choice. The parent could use their credit to help level the playing field by spending it towards their child's education needs, books, computers, ect.

    -If they want private/charter school, they could apply their credit to the cost of private tuition.

    -If they want home schooling, they could utilize that credit towards the tools and supplies required for proper hom schooling.

    I would suggest the time, technologicly, has come where the old style of school has also become a wasteful anachronism, like a caboose on a train.

    We live in an e-world today, where the best and most effectiev teachers could, via technology, wide-distribute their teachings to thousands of kids at their homes or in schools, wherever is best for them, thus increasing the quality of the teaching. Parents could choose a format they prefer, home-online or school-online, where the staff are not teachers per se, but social behavioural minders there to oversee the operations and behaviors, not to teach.

    These elite teachers teaching thousands at once would be worth their weight in gold, worth as much as any actor, sportsman or the like, and under a system of tax credits, could make huge amounts of money for their efforts. I am convinced someone will explore this in the not too distant future....unless the iron grip of the teachers union can get legislation passed to bar it and/or bar any funding for it.

    It's time IMO we look for new solutions and new ways of doing business when it comes to education, because today we spend alot to get very little back. We can do better.
    You are clueless.

    1000-to-1 student to teacher ratio? Yeah, that'll educate a child. Let's just have them read Wikipedia as class lessons.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    You and most Americans fell for "the sky is falling" message that conservatives spoke about how bad the public school system was in the US.

    Simple scare tactics bombarded every night on the news about our failing schools and how most teachers needed to be fired and were making way too much money.

    Most Americans believe what they see on the news and it was bi g business and politicians working hand in hand to uncover one of the last untapped resources........the American public schools system.

    Now all the money spent on education goes directly to testing companies. Congrats, your mentality has made companies like Pearson very wealthy. Did you read the article about Tony Bennet and how the money runs right through his personal financial interests in education? Pathetic.

    It was the words of politicians and backing of Bush's No Child Left Behind that scared Americans into thinking that over testing children was better than actually teaching them. The other message was that all teachers were incompetent and not trust worthy.

    Good job Americans, can't wait to hear these kids as adults telling everyOne how crappy their education was because the people of this country aloud the CEOs of Walmart and Bill Gates to design their curriculums rather than trained educators.

    Ask yourself, how could the public school system be as bad as politicians proclaim they were when we were coming off such great economic times under Clinton?

    Something had to be working right .
    Cool story bro. And you tell it so well.

    ps It's "allowed," not "aloud," professor.

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