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Thread: My evaluation of Sanchez...

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    Let me add that I concede the fact that the coaching has a lot to do with his progress as an NFL QB, BUT, you can't coach the defeatist attitude that comes out at the end of the seasons. You can't coach some of the bonehead decisions he's made. What NFL QB has thrown more INTs to defensive ends? That's a trend.

    Sanchez has an upside, and we've seen flashes of it. He's nowhere near that right now, and has an anchor that he's wearing around his neck. He needs to do something dramatic, take control and be the top flight QB we've all been waiting for.

    Or move aside and give someone else a chance. Don't be like Pennington and try and play when you're injured. You're hurting the team. Sanchez is injured as well, but upstairs in the head right now.
    YOU ARE 100% correct with this POST!!!

    And the Jets were IMO the ones with the mallet who pounded Sanchez into non leadership!! It is a joke!!!

    I actually think that in some ways Rex knows this and this is one of the reasons why he has tried to give Sanchez "another" chance.

    Rex never thought Shotty was great (no one in the NFL does) and he knows Sprano was totally on him!!!

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    You haven't answered the first one. As an individual player with the decisions he makes, has he improved? Don't counter a legitimate question with one trying to defend him. What defense do you have for the screen pass to the DE? Marty's fault?
    For me the answer is , its hard to tell if he's improved. I don't know specifically what the play calls were where he's thrown bad passes or int's. I laugh when I hear fans repeatedly say he can' t read a defense - like they know for certain -what the play call is and what options(progressions) are available with each call. Has he made poor decisions and throws - absolutely , but we don't know the ins and out of the Jets playbook - prime example is Saturday mights pass to Winslow - we have people absolutely blaming Sanchez and others blaming Winslow, bottom line is truly only the coaches and players know where the blame lies.

    As far as the screen passes , yes he's had problems , but let's be honest how many screen's have we seen since Rex took over. It doesn't appear to be part of his/Shotty's/Sparanos offensive mindset. There will be some who argue , well they don't throw them because Sanchez sucks at it , but its a true chicken & egg conundrum maybe he sucks at it because its not practiced much. I believe that the offensive plan that was in place for 4 years under Rex has been don't lose the game for us on O and the D will save the day. In this era of the NFL which highly favors the pass game , its a travesty to have a FO/CS so rooted in its stubborn ways to not see this. I also believe by bringing in MM & Lee the Jets from the top down are finally adhering to an approach of let's take advantage of the rules and become an attacking style offense.

    At the end of the day/season Sanchez may still suck , but honestly I don't think we've seen enough of him in a real offense to fairly evaluate what he may be. People will point to 52 turnovers , 50% completion % , worst QBR etc...... but what do those stats really mean in an ultra conservative G&P offensive approach that forces a team to consistently play from behind and in adverse passing situations.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by 56mehl56 View Post
    For me the answer is , its hard to tell if he's improved. I don't know specifically what the play calls were where he's thrown bad passes or int's. I laugh when I hear fans repeatedly say he can' t read a defense - like they know for certain -what the play call is and what options(progressions) are available with each call. Has he made poor decisions and throws - absolutely , but we don't know the ins and out of the Jets playbook - prime example is Saturday mights pass to Winslow - we have people absolutely blaming Sanchez and others blaming Winslow, bottom line is truly only the coaches and players know where the blame lies.

    As far as the screen passes , yes he's had problems , but let's be honest how many screen's have we seen since Rex took over. It doesn't appear to be part of his/Shotty's/Sparanos offensive mindset. There will be some who argue , well they don't throw them because Sanchez sucks at it , but its a true chicken & egg conundrum maybe he sucks at it because its not practiced much. I believe that the offensive plan that was in place for 4 years under Rex has been don't lose the game for us on O and the D will save the day. In this era of the NFL which highly favors the pass game , its a travesty to have a FO/CS so rooted in its stubborn ways to not see this. I also believe by bringing in MM & Lee the Jets from the top down are finally adhering to an approach of let's take advantage of the rules and become an attacking style offense.

    At the end of the day/season Sanchez may still suck , but honestly I don't think we've seen enough of him in a real offense to fairly evaluate what he may be. People will point to 52 turnovers , 50% completion % , worst QBR etc...... but what do those stats really mean in an ultra conservative G&P offensive approach that forces a team to consistently play from behind and in adverse passing situations.
    It means your QB sucks. Obviously.

  4. #184
    My evaluation of Sanchez is he reminds me of my golf game. Occasionally solid with a spritz of really nice play here or there, with the absolute guarantee of a hole consisting of WTF!!!!??!?!?! where did that ball go shank followed by a chunk, skull across the green, and 3 putt hole that completely blows up any chance of a good round.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    So is it safe to say that you believe that MM and Lee are unassailable as "good coaches", and that if Sanchez fails to perform under their system in 2013, "bad coaching" is not a valid excuse?
    It's so funny watching how bothered you are, and your pomposity gets the better of you because of my perspective on all this.

    To answer your question, and something I've also said countless times before, this is Sanchez' last chance. Bad coaching will always be a factor in Sanchez' development, sometimes players cannot bounce back, after developing bad habits, as was the case with Sanchez last year especially, lacking talent around him due to injury, Sanchez clearly lost his confidence. It remains to be seen what MM and Lee can get out of him. One other example, look at David Carr's career, former #1 overall pick, came out and showed flashes early in his career, but his OL's stunk, he was beaten to a pulp, and he was never able to get over it psychologically to have a good career.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    It's so funny watching how bothered you are, and your pomposity gets the better of you because of my perspective on all this.

    To answer your question, and something I've also said countless times before, this is Sanchez' last chance. Bad coaching will always be a factor in Sanchez' development, sometimes players cannot bounce back, after developing bad habits, as was the case with Sanchez last year especially, lacking talent around him due to injury, Sanchez clearly lost his confidence. It remains to be seen what MM and Lee can get out of him. One other example, look at David Carr's career, former #1 overall pick, came out and showed flashes early in his career, but his OL's stunk, he was beaten to a pulp, and he was never able to get over it psychologically to have a good career.
    Yes, David Carr would have won several Super Bowls if it wasn't for bad coaching. Seriously, are you delusional?

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by rextilleon View Post
    Yes, David Carr would have won several Super Bowls if it wasn't for bad coaching. Seriously, are you delusional?
    The adults are talking football toolbag, run along.

    http://www.amishrakefight.org/gfy/

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    It's so funny watching how bothered you are, and your pomposity gets the better of you because of my perspective on all this.

    To answer your question, and something I've also said countless times before, this is Sanchez' last chance. Bad coaching will always be a factor in Sanchez' development, sometimes players cannot bounce back, after developing bad habits, as was the case with Sanchez last year especially, lacking talent around him due to injury, Sanchez clearly lost his confidence. It remains to be seen what MM and Lee can get out of him. One other example, look at David Carr's career, former #1 overall pick, came out and showed flashes early in his career, but his OL's stunk, he was beaten to a pulp, and he was never able to get over it psychologically to have a good career.
    Good thing Sanchez's development isn't anything like David Carr's was. Unless you consider being thrown to the wolves on an expansion team the same as being put into the ideal the situation the first two years of your career.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by detectivekimble View Post
    Good thing Sanchez's development isn't anything like David Carr's was. Unless you consider being thrown to the wolves on an expansion team the same as being put into the ideal the situation the first two years of your career.
    While you're all proud of yourself in your persistence to be a jackass and obsess over everything I post, Carr's career provides a very good example of what can happen to a QB when the team he plays for doesn't do a good job to set him up for success, there are definitely some similarities with Sanchez' career to date.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    While you're all proud of yourself in your persistence to be a jackass and obsess over everything I post, Carr's career provides a very good example of what can happen to a QB when the team he plays for doesn't do a good job to set him up for success, there are definitely some similarities with Sanchez' career to date.
    Sanchez had a sound line when he came into the league.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Apache 51 View Post
    Sanchez had a sound line when he came into the league.
    Yes true, the analogy I was shooting for was with the talent around him last year, the numerous injuries, playing with street FA's signed that same week at WR, TE, and RB, it was a huge factor in last season's disaster.

  12. #192
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    Sanchez is exactly what he's always been: an inaccurate, unaware, mistake waiting to happen.

    Rookie mistakes from a 5th year veteran can no longer be tolerated. The quicker this franchise moves away from Sanchez, the better. Stop delaying the inevitable.

  13. #193
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    The problem with Sanchez is that when you look at his numbers they're extremely consistent. Even when the team around him was better, he still was about the same QB. The % of his production is practically the same. I think even looking at him so far he's basically playing the way he always has. I think it only looks better because of how bad last year was. I think last year wasn't entirely Sanchez's fault, but the big issue I have is that you keep waiting to see something that tells you Mark isn't the problem, but you never see that. It's clear that he's a big part of the problem. Mark isn't likely to get a better OC who can make him look good. That's part of the reason he's having a good camp.

    This is the best coaching he's had, but it doesn't seem like it's gonna be enough to make up for his shortcomings. We'll see more as the season moves along. We have to remember that we aren't seeing everything this offense has got in preseason. My impression is that the offense is going to be much improved over last year when we stop going with the vanilla version of it. That could be the saving grace for Sanchez once the games start. Being less predictable and having more facets to the attack can help Sanchez. I can see a much more aggressive offensive attack than we've seen recently. A more dynamic run attack, stretching the field with some deep throws and misdirection plays etc. MM won't make it easy for defenses. That can all serve to help Mark be more successful. We'll see.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    It's so funny watching how bothered you are, and your pomposity gets the better of you because of my perspective on all this.
    And I'll reiterate, if you think anything here at J.I. on the Strip gets me "bothered", you simply don't know me very well. Writing a few words about football, even if opinionated words, does not equate to being "bothered".

    I.e. J.I. is an enjoyable mental distraction from the workaday world Ray. Nothing more.

    To answer your question, and something I've also said countless times before, this is Sanchez' last chance.
    Very clear cut, thank you.

    Bad coaching will always be a factor in Sanchez' development, sometimes players cannot bounce back, after developing bad habits, as was the case with Sanchez last year especially, lacking talent around him due to injury, Sanchez clearly lost his confidence. It remains to be seen what MM and Lee can get out of him.
    Given your strongly pro-Sanchez positions on the board, it's clear that you must believe something great can still be salvaged from him. One does not go to the lengths you have here at J.I. to support someone as our starting QB if they don't think he can be a championship quality player....do they?

    One other example, look at David Carr's career, former #1 overall pick, came out and showed flashes early in his career, but his OL's stunk, he was beaten to a pulp, and he was never able to get over it psychologically to have a good career.
    An interesting comparison, if not quite apt. Carr had far more talent than Sanchez could dream of having, and his downfall was primarily due to his O-line, whereas Sanchez's downfall is due to his own inabillity to not turn the ball over regularly and often. Sanchez has been generally well protected in his career, and many of his sacks come when he fails to feel obvious pressure or to throw the ball away, something he is horrific at thru this point in his career.

    But still, the Carr comparison is apt enough, in that it's a great example of how waiting on a QB to bounce back is often a fools errand.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    And I'll reiterate, if you think anything here at J.I. on the Strip gets me "bothered", you simply don't know me very well. Writing a few words about football, even if opinionated words, does not equate to being "bothered".

    I.e. J.I. is an enjoyable mental distraction from the workaday world Ray. Nothing more.



    Very clear cut, thank you.



    Given your strongly pro-Sanchez positions on the board, it's clear that you must believe something great can still be salvaged from him. One does not go to the lengths you have here at J.I. to support someone as our starting QB if they don't think he can be a championship quality player....do they?
    Great is a strong word, I've never mentioned the word great, I'm a realist, despite yours and others accusations. I simply do not know to what level Sanchez can be salvaged, I just want to see him get that opportunity.

    I want to see him improve, progress, gain back his confidence, fight for his career, I want to see what MM and Lee can get out of him. But to what level that is, if at all, remains to be seen.

    An interesting comparison, if not quite apt. Carr had far more talent than Sanchez could dream of having, and his downfall was primarily due to his O-line, whereas Sanchez's downfall is due to his own inabillity to not turn the ball over regularly and often. Sanchez has been generally well protected in his career, and many of his sacks come when he fails to feel obvious pressure or to throw the ball away, something he is horrific at thru this point in his career.

    But still, the Carr comparison is apt enough, in that it's a great example of how waiting on a QB to bounce back is often a fools errand.
    Again, I was speaking mostly from the perspective of his surrounding talent, the lockout FA overhaul of 2011, and then last year's disaster due to excessive injuries. The question is, do you or anybody think even the very good QB's in the league, not necessarily the great QB's, Manning, Brady, etc, but the good QB's, does anybody honestly think the good QB's wouldn't struggle with the hand dealt to Sanchez last year on this team, the injuries, Sparano, Cavanaugh? I'm convinced most QB's would struggle equally to the level Sanchez did last year, most QB's would struggle with confidence as Sanchez did last year, being in NY only amplified those struggles, the sensationalism of the local and national media, and the challenge to perform with the constant media scrutiny and fan paranoia. I'm convinced the media hacks covering this team, and the national coverage, truly compromises this team, what other team has to deal with the crap the Jets do? Circus? Bull****, it's media created, and that drives me nuts.
    Last edited by Ray Ray19; 08-19-2013 at 07:24 PM.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    Simple question. And I wish the answer was different, but:

    Has Sanchez improved over the last 3 years?
    He actually has. He's progressed from horrid to pretty bad.

    Every QB has bad throws....problem is we as a fanbase want sanchez to be flawless to make up for the 2 bad years he had...which is I think kind of unfair
    Sanchez was terrible his first two years and Rex would have gone 12-4 in both 2009 and 2010 with just average, mediocre QB play.

    I'll never understand how people think he's 'regressed' He sucked when he got here even when he was surrounded by talent.

    He's had a bad '4' years (not 2) by any statistical metric used to measure QB performance

  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by parafly View Post
    Sanchez is exactly what he's always been: an inaccurate, unaware, mistake waiting to happen.

    Rookie mistakes from a 5th year veteran can no longer be tolerated. The quicker this franchise moves away from Sanchez, the better. Stop delaying the inevitable.
    This sums it up. It is simply time for a new person to fill in the position. Let's cut our losses here and move on.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by w0mbat View Post
    He actually has. He's progressed from horrid to pretty bad.



    Sanchez was terrible his first two years and Rex would have gone 12-4 in both 2009 and 2010 with just average, mediocre QB play.

    I'll never understand how people think he's 'regressed' He sucked when he got here even when he was surrounded by talent.

    He's had a bad '4' years (not 2) by any statistical metric used to measure QB performance
    It's a disservice to lump in 4 years, and not break them apart individually, rookie year, 2nd year, players are supposed to have bumps, does anybody not think we will see the same with Smith?

    Roster overhaul, coaching, player injuries, depleting talent around him, coaching changes, this is Sanchez' 3rd OC and system in 3 years, that matters, yet too many fans ignore these factors and love to make blanket statements about his performance, lumping each season together.


    Some love to point to the numbers, what about his numbers so far this pre-season, which are pretty good, it seems fans want to ignore them to suit their agenda against him.

  19. #199
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    but he does have a lovely head band, so let's cut him some slack for style.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    So is it safe to say that you believe that MM and Lee are unassailable as "good coaches", and that if Sanchez fails to perform under their system in 2013, "bad coaching" is not a valid excuse?
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenWave View Post
    You will not get a response to this question.
    I would love for you guys to find ONE -- JUST ONE -- post that implies people on this board don't hold Mark accountable for his production (or lack thereof). You either agree or disagree that Mark has not been given the best playmakers/coaches over the past four years. You either agree or disagree that he can be "decent" if you surround him with enough talent. (And Greenwave you did give a thorough response to this in an earlier post, so thank you for that).

    Anyone here who "defends" Sanchez only does it in the HOPES that an improvement from a coaching perspective helps him become competent. You won't find ONE post that predicts greatness, or that is already lining up an excuse for him in case this season falls through. On the flip side, I can find TONS of posts that have already determined that Sanchez isn't even a 3rd string QB in this league. That we would have been better off keeping Tebow. That he's "the worst starting QB in the history of the NFL". That he's the offensive equivalent to Vernon Gholston. Not saying you guys specifically hold these views, but the reality is it's the Sanchez-bashers that go way too far with their opinions, and the supposed "Sanchez-backers" don't even exist in the way they are portrayed on this site.

    It's as simple as not wanting to give up on a guy until the coaching staff chooses to. If you don't think Sanchez should start, that shows just as much lack of faith in MM as it does in Sanchez. You're certainly entitled to that opinion, but it doesn't mean those of us that disagree have some man-crush on Sanchez -- the guy is dead to me as soon as a better option presents itself, which should be the attitude toward ANY position on the team . . .

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