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Thread: My evaluation of Sanchez...

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    Devil's advocate:

    Geno had a pretty rough end to his career, but people want to chalk it up to the fact that he had NO defense on his team, so he put too much pressure on himself to win the game. In other words, the circumstances he found himself in kept him from playing his optimal game.

    We openly admit this team has minimal offensive talent at best, but then wonder why Mark doesn't do more with it? We joke about the ineptitude of recent OCs, yet say Mark's decision-making is horrendous. I know that sounds like I'm defending him, but I don't mean it that way. I'm simply saying we can't complain about every aspect of the offense, and then bash Mark for not producing with what he's been given. There has to be at least SOME level of pressure (right or wrong) to feel like he has to "force the issue" if he wants to be successful with the cast we throw out there. And if it was just Mark complaining about lack of talent, it would be a cop-out. But it's the majority of FANS who say it ad nauseum, but then turn around and expect Sanchez to be light years ahead of where he was in 2009.

    It's all hindsight now, but for all those "worst starting QB in history" believers out there, I'd love to know how much better guys like Rivers, Cutler, Smith, Palmer, Freeman, Tannehill, Schaub, Romo, Ponder, etc. would have done. That's not to say Mark is as good/better than those guys, but I have to believe their numbers would have dropped considerably as well, perhaps making them worthy of the same title we're trying to place on Sanchez . . .
    Mark's not the worst QB in history, not even close. You have to be ignorant to be believe that. Fact is, has he improved over the last two or three years? Yes, he's had a difficult situation, but he hasn't improved. Did everyone not notice his defeatist attitude last year? The year before?

    Sanchez is great until one thing goes wrong (strangely the opposite of 2010). Then he disintegrates. His stats support that, and it's supported the other night.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    Ok, who do u think should be the starting QB as of right now and why?
    I would hope Geno would show enough against the Giants to claim the starting position. We haven't seen enough game action to really judge Geno and from what we have seen from MS, it's been more of the same. Sanchez fans are happy with Mark's performance vs two bad defense's. If Geno comes out and lights up the Giants d, he wins the job imo.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 4

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    Ok, who do u think should be the starting QB as of right now and why?
    I'll answer this one.

    Mark Sanchez should.

    Why? Geno Smith has not won the job, period.

    I may have wanted Sanchez gone. I may have wanted Smith to win out. I may have wanted almost anyoen but Sanchez to our QB this year.

    But he IS here, he did win the competition (so far, and in no small part due to Smith's injury), and neither Smith nor McEljoke, nor Simms, have outplayed him.

    So Sanchez should start.

    And when he fails (and I believe he will) he should be benched, and Smith put in, and not taken out. Once Sanchez is out, he must be out for good IMO.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Bandit View Post
    +10000

    Food for thought. In 8 full seasons with Gmen, Eli has only thrown less than 15 ints in a season twice (14 & 10).

    QBs are gunna mess up, the fact that everyone expects perfection is insane. And that's not with just QBs, if we don't have a pass rush every single down we all of a sudden have a slow poor defense or if we let a pass up our secondary is atrocious. People on this board forget that we're playing against an actual team on the field.

    Sanchez is what he is. He's a QB that needs to be in the right system with weapons. Is he gunna make mistakes? Hell yeah he will. But the point is to see if he comes back from the mistakes. Game 1 he came back with a TD after a pick. Game 2 it was all downhill after it. But from what I've seen so far, I would have no problem going with Sanchez week 1.

    This board is so tired of Sanchez that they will nitpick every thing that he does. He completed 4 passes in a row? Well the wrs were open he was supposed to do that. He threw behind a receiver ? His accuracy is horrible. He threw an int? He's horrible and there's no way Winslow ran the wrong route!

    Give it up Ray, there's no winning with this board. Just know some people here agree with the message you're trying to convey, not the hyperbole that people are shooting back at you.
    Simple question, is it acceptable for your starting Qb to give up about 2 absolutely terrible turnovers per game, every single game? If you are the type of QB that coughs up those bad turnovers on a regular basis you need to also do one of two things. 1) Have a very high completion rate or 2) Make a lot of very big plays to compensate for the mistakes.

    This is where any and all of these comparisons fall flat on their face. Brett Favre and Eli Manning both made ghastly mistakes in their careers, but they were also more accurate and made a LOT of huge game breaking plays to make up for it.

    Sanchez has poor accuracy, poor pocket sense, makes those ghastly turnoevers and does not make near enough big game breaking plays. It's as simple as that. He's done with with a good defense, a good running game, a good oline, he's done it from year one to year five. That's who he is.

    Because home fan bases can be more biased than outsiders on certain players you often get the truth from other fan bases or teams. I can guarantee you that other team and fans are happy as can be the more games Sanchez plays for this team. He's been a mediocre to bad QB all his career and is no where near good enough to get the team to where it needs to be. I hope he plays well enough this year so that Idzik can get something for him in the off season.

  5. #145
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    My evaluation of Sanchez.....


    He is in the top 3 of the worst QBs in the NFL.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleansweep2013 View Post
    Wtf u smoking?? I forget which TE it was but mark threw a 10-15 completion guy was stAnding still WIDEopen, mark had all day to look and throw and although a completion to wide open stand still TE guy had to fall to ground and scoop the ball for catch.. It was complete great but to say his accuracy is good is a joke.. And that's not only throw off target..
    Every QB has bad throws....problem is we as a fanbase want sanchez to be flawless to make up for the 2 bad years he had...which is I think kind of unfair

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Simple question, is it acceptable for your starting Qb to give up about 2 absolutely terrible turnovers per game, every single game? If you are the type of QB that coughs up those bad turnovers on a regular basis you need to also do one of two things. 1) Have a very high completion rate or 2) Make a lot of very big plays to compensate for the mistakes.

    This is where any and all of these comparisons fall flat on their face. Brett Favre and Eli Manning both made ghastly mistakes in their careers, but they were also more accurate and made a LOT of huge game breaking plays to make up for it.

    Sanchez has poor accuracy, poor pocket sense, makes those ghastly turnoevers and does not make near enough big game breaking plays. It's as simple as that. He's done with with a good defense, a good running game, a good oline, he's done it from year one to year five. That's who he is.

    Because home fan bases can be more biased than outsiders on certain players you often get the truth from other fan bases or teams. I can guarantee you that other team and fans are happy as can be the more games Sanchez plays for this team. He's been a mediocre to bad QB all his career and is no where near good enough to get the team to where it needs to be. I hope he plays well enough this year so that Idzik can get something for him in the off season.
    I agree he's not on their caliber but he's not as bad as you're making him out to be. Brett Favre had Donald Driver, Sterling Sharpe, Greg Jennings, Ahmad Greene, I forgot the other tight end. Manning stunk up the joint until they got Plax, what happened when Plax shot himself ? They fell apart until they got Nicks and discovered Cruz. Sanchez has/d Kerley, Hill (half injured),Schillens, Cumberland and Tony Sparano last year. That's why you can't judge Sanchez too hard on last year.


    Again, I'm not a Sanchez apologist, but he's def not as bad as you guys are making him out to be. First time in 3 years he's coming back into with the same main receivers he had before. And also, you guys are making it seem this dude never won games for us. Sheesh.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfine350z View Post
    Every QB has bad throws....problem is we as a fanbase want sanchez to be flawless to make up for the 2 bad years he had...which is I think kind of unfair
    Wanting a better than 1:1 turnover-to-TD ratio is not expecting "flawless".

    Wanting a better than a 55% completion % is not expecting "flawless".

    Wating far fewer crushing Pick 6's and Fumble 6's is not expecting "flawless".

    Wanting far fewer 3-and-outs is not expecting "flawless".

    Lets get Sanchez to "average" before we start expecting "flawless".

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfine350z View Post
    Every QB has bad throws....problem is we as a fanbase want sanchez to be flawless to make up for the 2 bad years he had...which is I think kind of unfair
    The truth is we are who we are......

    And it is very sad...

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Simple question, is it acceptable for your starting Qb to give up about 2 absolutely terrible turnovers per game, every single game? If you are the type of QB that coughs up those bad turnovers on a regular basis you need to also do one of two things. 1) Have a very high completion rate or 2) Make a lot of very big plays to compensate for the mistakes.

    This is where any and all of these comparisons fall flat on their face. Brett Favre and Eli Manning both made ghastly mistakes in their careers, but they were also more accurate and made a LOT of huge game breaking plays to make up for it.

    Sanchez has poor accuracy, poor pocket sense, makes those ghastly turnoevers and does not make near enough big game breaking plays. It's as simple as that. He's done with with a good defense, a good running game, a good oline, he's done it from year one to year five. That's who he is.

    Because home fan bases can be more biased than outsiders on certain players you often get the truth from other fan bases or teams. I can guarantee you that other team and fans are happy as can be the more games Sanchez plays for this team. He's been a mediocre to bad QB all his career and is no where near good enough to get the team to where it needs to be. I hope he plays well enough this year so that Idzik can get something for him in the off season.
    And to point out, his pocket presence and big play ability to overcome turnovers was there in 2010, and he's regressed since.

    I'm a Sanchez supporter when he's on the field, but we're talking about him and his future off the field. It isn't bright right now, and the only one who can turn it around is Sanchez. He doesn't seem focused to me.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Bandit View Post
    I agree he's not on their caliber but he's not as bad as you're making him out to be. Brett Favre had Donald Driver, Sterling Sharpe, Greg Jennings, Ahmad Greene, I forgot the other tight end. Manning stunk up the joint until they got Plax, what happened when Plax shot himself ? They fell apart until they got Nicks and discovered Cruz. Sanchez has/d Kerley, Hill (half injured),Schillens, Cumberland and Tony Sparano last year. That's why you can't judge Sanchez too hard on last year.


    Again, I'm not a Sanchez apologist, but he's def not as bad as you guys are making him out to be. First time in 3 years he's coming back into with the same main receivers he had before. And also, you guys are making it seem this dude never won games for us. Sheesh.

    Yes he is that bad. He was that bad when we had a top 5 defense, run game, oline and both holmes and edwards. Obviously he looks even worse when we don't have all of those things.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by detectivekimble View Post
    Are you going to predict 12 wins again, Rah Rah?
    I'm glad I passed on Rah Rah's offer to help me pick my fantasy football team.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by rextilleon View Post
    I'm glad I passed on Rah Rah's offer to help me pick my fantasy football team.
    last year I took the JETS defense and git royally fukked.

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    Lets get Sanchez to "average" before we start expecting "flawless".
    That's a fair statement, but would you agree it's pretty much solely based on 2012? His first three years (at least statistically) showed improvement in pretty much every area. Then last year he imploded, for the various reasons people have debated ad nauseum. If he puts up numbers this season better than year 3 (let's say 28/12/3800) would that be an "average" season? And if so, do you think Jets fans would lessen their venom for him? From the posts I read it certainly seems he'll have to put up All-Pro numbers for many here to even consider keeping him on the roster.

    In the end it doesn't matter -- if Geno is the answer we'll find out at some point and Mark's stats will be moot. But I do believe the personal hatred for the guy has caused the bar to be set much higher than it would be for player X in the same situation . . .

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Yes he is that bad. He was that bad when we had a top 5 defense, run game, oline and both holmes and edwards. Obviously he looks even worse when we don't have all of those things.

    In 2009 the D carried us, thats to be expected for a rookie QB, what would you expect? And what do you expect if Geno starts right away?

    But that top 5 defense didn't carry us in 2010 when we beat the Dolphins 31-23, Broncos 24-20, Lions and Browns 23-20, Texans 30-27, Steelers 22-17. And we all know what happened in the post season.

    Look, I reallllllllllly hate to sound like SAR I here, as I have bashed Sanchez before. But lately its been really unwarranted. When I hear/see people talk about this preseason and say "Those Sanchez completions are only because they were open!", I can only roll my eyes. THATS WHAT A GOOD OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR DOES! HE SCHEMES PEOPLE OPEN, WERE JUST NOT USED TO IT YET.

    This clouded and blind hatred for Sanchez from fans left them without any common sense.
    Last edited by Green Bandit; 08-19-2013 at 11:14 AM.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    That's a fair statement, but would you agree it's pretty much solely based on 2012?
    No, I would not agree. Sanchez has, performance wise, been a well-below average QB all four years of his career. It is pure historical revision to see Sanchez in 2009 and 1010 regular seasons as anything other than a detriment that had to be overcome by his Defense and running game.

    The playoffs, yes, he showed flashes. Both regular season however, he was a weakness we (as a team) were good enough to weather. 2011 and 2012, he was a weakness the team was not good enough to weather.

    And if so, do you think Jets fans would lessen their venom for him?
    Some would, some wouldn't. Far too hypothetical to really say.

    From the posts I read it certainly seems he'll have to put up All-Pro numbers for many here to even consider keeping him on the roster.
    Probably the truth, frankly. You do understand how much he'd cost next year to retain, right?

    But I do believe the personal hatred for the guy
    And this is where I think you go right off the rails. I, for one, have no "personal" hatred or animosity to Sanchez.

    I just think he's a bad QB, and I can support that with both pure stats and my own experience watching every snap he's ever played.

    I, as a fan, desire a championship-level fo play from our QB, the single most vital position on the field in the modern NFL.

    Anything less is not good enough. And Sanchez, thus far, is WELL below Championship level. He is, simply, one of the worst starting QB's in the NFL.

    Doesn't mean he cannot improve, it means he has alot of improvement to make just to be decent, and his history simply doesn't support him making that level of improvement IMO.

    It should be remembered, the only reason he's a Jet is his contract. The only reason.

  17. #157
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    If 2 plays went Sanchez's way he would easily be the front runner to start week 1 unless Geno is lights out against the Giants. 2 plays are ... Hill makes the tough catch that guys like Reggie Wayne (one handed grab or the diving td catch which should have been an INT) or Calvin Johnson makes routinely, and Winslow runs a better route and catches the TD. Rex said it was not all on Mark in latest interview, basically saying Winslow fcked up without throwing him under the bus.
    His stats would be better because thats all SOJF look at, and sports writers across the nation look at. Anyway his stats ..
    15/23 180+yds 65.2% 2 TD 0 INT 118 QBrating.

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag3 View Post
    My evaluation of Sanchez.....


    He is in the top 3 of the worst QBs in the NFL.
    Enough said right here. How many other NFL teams would replace there starter with Sanchez. Furthermore, how many teams, if their starter was injured, would put in Sanchez over the backup on their roster....

    When you think about it like that its pretty simple, even though Geno hasnt "won" the starting job, why not start him.

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMJets View Post
    If 2 plays went Sanchez's way he would easily be the front runner to start week 1 unless Geno is lights out against the Giants. 2 plays are ... Hill makes the tough catch that guys like Reggie Wayne (one handed grab or the diving td catch which should have been an INT) or Calvin Johnson makes routinely, and Winslow runs a better route and catches the TD. Rex said it was not all on Mark in latest interview, basically saying Winslow fcked up without throwing him under the bus.
    His stats would be better because thats all SOJF look at, and sports writers across the nation look at. Anyway his stats ..
    15/23 180+yds 65.2% 2 TD 0 INT 118 QBrating.
    Problem is, you can play that exact what-if game with 90% of Sanchez's starts over the past two seasons.

    You shouldn't play the what-if game unless the event that happened was truly an exception (tipped ball, for example). Can't say that for Mr. Sanchez.

  20. #160
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    Simple question. And I wish the answer was different, but:

    Has Sanchez improved over the last 3 years?

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