Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 74

Thread: Worst Mass Shooting in U.S. Capital History....not in NY, No One Cares?

  1. #1

    Worst Mass Shooting in U.S. Capital History....not in NY, No One Cares?

    How does this NOT have a thread already?

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/17...rbing-history/

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/17/us/nav...html?hpt=hp_t1

    This one seems to call into question the "just do background checks" argument, as this guy didn't just go through a background check, but a full security clearance check, and still wasn't caught as the obvious nutbar he so clearly was.

    Also touches on the old AR-15 is evil argument, as this guys weapon was a standard issue shotgun....which he used to shoot, then take the weapons of, one of the peopel protecting this base.

    Seems his motive remains elusive, but as is usual the media is trying to pin whatever it's cause-de-jour of the moment migth be and speculating wildly.

    Predict incoming "He was a right winger/left-winger" arguments on radio.

    What it is is a damn shame. We lost some good people, real servants of the Nation, yesterday....to yet another nutbar who shouldn't have been ont he street, much less given a security clearance.

  2. #2
    Cuz he's not Muslim?

    Whats to say? We all know now if someone wants to do this...there's very little we can do to stop them.

    Just because people don't post doesn't mean they don't care.

  3. #3
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    In Morris Co., N.J. at the right end of a Browning 12 gauge, with Nick to my left n Rex to my right.
    Posts
    17,235
    The F Pres. didn't care he made a statement and then went on with his economic presentation, who the hell is advising this moe?

  4. #4
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    13,566
    Warfish, is it fair to criticize the media for speculation... after authoring this thread title?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    Just because people don't post doesn't mean they don't care.
    Agree to disagree.

    On a forum where even the most minutia of personal flatulence is discussed in great detail, no post = no care.

    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    Churchill, is it fair to criticize the media for speculation... after authoring this thread title?
    I'm not speculating. I'm outright accusing New Yorkers (i.e. this forum) of occasionally not giving a **** about things that happen outside New York.

    I appreciate this forum is pretty well dead/inactive at current, but to not have a thread on this.....is, IMO, a gross oversight.

  6. #6
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    6,975
    Buried deep in the CNN article linked in the original post:

    Alexis began working at the Navy Yard last week, though it was unclear whether he had actually begun doing work or was still securing his base clearance. Many contractors are initially given secret level clearance, which "means that the background check really hasn't been done yet, but it's in the process of being done."
    If this is true, it seems like this incident may be nothing more than a procedural failure. Incompetence at its finest.

  7. #7
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    One hour. from MetLife
    Posts
    22,278
    Quote Originally Posted by parafly View Post
    Buried deep in the CNN article linked in the original post:



    If this is true, it seems like this incident may be nothing more than a procedural failure. Incompetence at its finest.
    This is not true. You don't get a temporary clearance. They issue badges and it usually take 6 months to get a secret clearance in today environment. Until then you get a badge that says no clearance.

  8. #8
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    13,566
    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    I'm not speculating. I'm outright accusing New Yorkers (i.e. this forum) of occasionally not giving a **** about things that happen outside New York.

    I appreciate this forum is pretty well dead/inactive at current, but to not have a thread on this.....is, IMO, a gross oversight.
    Agree to disagree.

    To be quite honest, I'm a little surprised to hear this from you. To me, small data generalizations like "New Yorkers are self centered" don't sound very different than "Republicans are racist/sexist", or even "AR-15s are to blame"

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    Agree to disagree.

    To be quite honest, I'm a little surprised to hear this from you. To me, small data generalizations like "New Yorkers are self centered" don't sound very different than "Republicans are racist/sexist", or even "AR-15s are to blame"
    I have a broad range of real life experience that would say both claims are true, so /shrug. Not all.....but enough.

    In any event, discussing why it wasn't worth discussing isn't worth dicussing.
    Last edited by Churchill; 09-17-2013 at 05:25 PM.

  10. #10
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    13,566
    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    I have a broad range of real life experience that would say both claims are true, so /shrug.

    In any event, discussing why it wasn't worth discussing isn't worth dicussing.
    I find it worth discussing more than the event, because I was in New York when I read it

    Plus I'm getting bored of agreeing with you all the time.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    Agree to disagree.

    On a forum where even the most minutia of personal flatulence is discussed in great detail, no post = no care.
    But I think most posters here have their pet causes. (Global warming doesn't exist, Obama sucks, cops suck, Muslims suck, teachers suck) This doesn't fit neatly into any.

  12. #12
    Bewildered Beast
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    SF via Strong Island
    Posts
    31,085
    I'm not sure Marty M. is the right coach for Geno, BTW.














  13. #13
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    One hour. from MetLife
    Posts
    22,278
    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    How does this NOT have a thread already?

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/17...rbing-history/

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/17/us/nav...html?hpt=hp_t1

    This one seems to call into question the "just do background checks" argument, as this guy didn't just go through a background check, but a full security clearance check, and still wasn't caught as the obvious nutbar he so clearly was.

    Also touches on the old AR-15 is evil argument, as this guys weapon was a standard issue shotgun....which he used to shoot, then take the weapons of, one of the peopel protecting this base.

    Seems his motive remains elusive, but as is usual the media is trying to pin whatever it's cause-de-jour of the moment migth be and speculating wildly.

    Predict incoming "He was a right winger/left-winger" arguments on radio.

    What it is is a damn shame. We lost some good people, real servants of the Nation, yesterday....to yet another nutbar who shouldn't have been ont he street, much less given a security clearance.
    When you get a security clearance, they talk to a lot of your neighbors, check medical records etc.
    How did this guy get a clearance.

  14. #14
    Previous mental records expunged, sounds like loonie Muslim.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by MnJetFan View Post
    Previous mental records expunged, sounds like loonie Muslim.
    There ya go.

  16. #16
    It's still amazing to me the reaction (politically/policy-desire) that these rare Mass Shooting events create.

    Consider, we have between 3-8 or so of these events per year (so 3-10 individual killers), killing aprox. 30-50 people in total. Yes, every single life lost is tragic, but in a nation of 350 million people, 50 is NOT alot.

    Even if we take ALL gun related murders (excluding suicides/accidents), it's something like 8,000. Out of 350,000,000. And most of those are committed with illegal guns (legal guns account for most accidents/suicides).

    Yet, if the two political "sides" got their way, the death of the 50 people this year would result in:

    -350 million people have their 2nd amendment Rights Revoked or Limited. Guns would either be outright illegal, or severely restricted/regulated.
    -350 million people have their medical privacy rights revoked, and we'd all be tracked for our State-Sanctioned Mental Health from then on.
    -American gun manufacturers would be shuttered, costing thousands of jobs and millions to the economy.
    -Hunting would be effectively banned, creating environmental problems, overpopulation, and robbing 50 million Americans of their primary hobby. Target Shooting and other hobbies would also be banned.
    -Violent Video Games would be banned, robbing the vast majority of us who can play them and NOT go on a kill rampage of a hobby/passtime/diversion.

    Thats alot of lost rights and privlidges for 350 million of us because of the crazed acts (and failings) or a very few individuals.

    For example, lets look at the Navy Yard killer:

    -Despite documented gun violence, he was never prosecuted (failure of Government).
    -Despite documented gun violence, he did not lose his abillity to obtain Secret Clearance (failure of Government).
    -Despite the Police having to visit him because he was "hearing voices int he Walls", he did not lose his abillity to obtain his Secret Clearance (failure of Government)
    -Despite recieving medical and mental health care at the VA, he did not lose his abillity to own firearms or obtain his Secret Clearance (failure of Government)

    And sadly, like schools and other places, a millitary base is no more secure or armed to a man with clearance that anywhere else, and the vast majority on-base are not armed in any form. Kill the security (which he did), and the rest are just targets. IMO thats a failure of Government as well.

    So we have a systemic failure of Government to do it's basic job, yet if we listen to both sides of the aisle, the only "solutions" are more and more powerful Governmentm, to restrict/revoke the rights of ALL Americans, all 350 million of us, to be sure that 1 can't do this again.

    Which is a pipe dream, because even if they got every restriction they want, and we're all disarmed, de-gamed and tracked and registered and mental-health-probed.......just like this guy, people will slip through the cracks, illegal guns will still exist, and events like this will still happen.

    What I want to know is why, why do so many instantly grab at "restrict our rights!" as the solution for all, instead of tailoring the solution to the problem?

    And why, as a side note, do the same folsk who would happily restrict oru rights on this, find the idea of "have photo ID to vote" to be the single most racist and objectionable idea ever to have been raised?

    Some days I just don't get it.

  17. #17
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    13,566
    Quote Originally Posted by MnJetFan View Post
    Previous mental records expunged, sounds like loonie Muslim.
    So what do you guys think?

    Is it that he doesn't read the news? Or that he thinks Islam and Buddhism are the same thing?

  18. #18
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    The depths of Despair.
    Posts
    40,287
    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post

    Some days I just don't get it.
    +1, This thread confirms it.

    -

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    It's still amazing to me the reaction (politically/policy-desire) that these rare Mass Shooting events create.

    Consider, we have between 3-8 or so of these events per year (so 3-10 individual killers), killing aprox. 30-50 people in total. Yes, every single life lost is tragic, but in a nation of 350 million people, 50 is NOT alot.

    Even if we take ALL gun related murders (excluding suicides/accidents), it's something like 8,000. Out of 350,000,000. And most of those are committed with illegal guns (legal guns account for most accidents/suicides).

    Yet, if the two political "sides" got their way, the death of the 50 people this year would result in:

    -350 million people have their 2nd amendment Rights Revoked or Limited. Guns would either be outright illegal, or severely restricted/regulated.
    -350 million people have their medical privacy rights revoked, and we'd all be tracked for our State-Sanctioned Mental Health from then on.
    -American gun manufacturers would be shuttered, costing thousands of jobs and millions to the economy.
    -Hunting would be effectively banned, creating environmental problems, overpopulation, and robbing 50 million Americans of their primary hobby. Target Shooting and other hobbies would also be banned.
    -Violent Video Games would be banned, robbing the vast majority of us who can play them and NOT go on a kill rampage of a hobby/passtime/diversion.

    Thats alot of lost rights and privlidges for 350 million of us because of the crazed acts (and failings) or a very few individuals.

    For example, lets look at the Navy Yard killer:

    -Despite documented gun violence, he was never prosecuted (failure of Government).
    -Despite documented gun violence, he did not lose his abillity to obtain Secret Clearance (failure of Government).
    -Despite the Police having to visit him because he was "hearing voices int he Walls", he did not lose his abillity to obtain his Secret Clearance (failure of Government)
    -Despite recieving medical and mental health care at the VA, he did not lose his abillity to own firearms or obtain his Secret Clearance (failure of Government)

    And sadly, like schools and other places, a millitary base is no more secure or armed to a man with clearance that anywhere else, and the vast majority on-base are not armed in any form. Kill the security (which he did), and the rest are just targets. IMO thats a failure of Government as well.

    So we have a systemic failure of Government to do it's basic job, yet if we listen to both sides of the aisle, the only "solutions" are more and more powerful Governmentm, to restrict/revoke the rights of ALL Americans, all 350 million of us, to be sure that 1 can't do this again.

    Which is a pipe dream, because even if they got every restriction they want, and we're all disarmed, de-gamed and tracked and registered and mental-health-probed.......just like this guy, people will slip through the cracks, illegal guns will still exist, and events like this will still happen.

    What I want to know is why, why do so many instantly grab at "restrict our rights!" as the solution for all, instead of tailoring the solution to the problem?

    And why, as a side note, do the same folsk who would happily restrict oru rights on this, find the idea of "have photo ID to vote" to be the single most racist and objectionable idea ever to have been raised?

    Some days I just don't get it.
    Which I think is why (to return to your original query) people don't post much about a situation like this. We've seen it before, how people jump to whatever "cause" they champion. And nothing changes.

  20. #20
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Mendham, NJ
    Posts
    14,074
    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    But I think most posters here have their pet causes. (Global warming doesn't exist, Obama sucks, cops suck, Muslims suck, teachers suck) This doesn't fit neatly into any.
    When people first thought that an assault rifle was used the anti gun people started their mantra, but then it was found that he used a shotgun (which our Vice President told everyone who wanted a gun for protection to get this year) the anti gun people hushed a little. He wasnt a terrorist, he wasnt an extreme right or left wing guy, he was just a sick individual who did a horrible thing. There really isnt anything that can be politically exploited.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us