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Thread: Smith vs. Sanchez - through first 3 games rookie year

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revis View Post
    Geno actually has 4 TD's (1 rushing). Watch most of the throws from game 2 vs the Pats. Safe conservative throws are basically the entire game plan. Geno is throwing INT's on passes of 15+ yards

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VKYZOez1aw
    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Nut View Post
    Another example of why you don't judge based on stats only.

    These 2 QBs are running completely different O's. They're not scaling back for Geno like they did for Sanchez.

    What is is it, a little over 500 passing yards vs 800+???
    Quote Originally Posted by nyjfollower View Post
    expanded numbers

    captain headband: 49 of 83 (59.04%), 606 yards, 4 TD passes, 2 INT, 5 sacks, 14 rushing yards, 1 rushing TD, 4 fumbles

    geno smith: 55 of 102 (53.9%), 801 yards, 3 TD passes, 6 INT, 9 sacks, 78 rushing yards, 1 rushing TD, 1 fumble
    BINGO FELLAS!!!!

    some of the stats look to be in favor of Sanchez, but as you expand the facts and watch them play you'll see that there is no comparison. Sanchez was a rookie game manager..a mere pawn in the offense asked to not **** it up for the defense.....Geno is playing in Marty's WCO a Vertical offense with WC roots....Geno has been asked to do way more than Sanchez at this point, and possibly ever because of Geno's ability and the difference in the offensive scheme.



    http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-york-j...ets-highlights

    Sanchez T.O.'s: 6
    Geno's T.O.'s: 7

    Not much difference right?

    At least Geno is taking shots down the field trying to make plays, Sanchez was careless with the football all while being asked not to screw up....incredible
    Last edited by carlito1171; 09-23-2013 at 11:01 PM.

  2. #42
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    How is this even comparable?

    Sanchez was surrounded by the #1 defense, #1 running game, arguably the best OL in the league, and was asked to throw the ball about 20 times a game and not f*ck anything up.

    Geno has been asked to throw the ball about 35 times a game so far and isn't surrounded by nearly the amount of talent on offense.

    Mornhinweg isn't hiding this kid one bit and I love it.

    If he doesn't have it, then he doesn't have it.

    Don't mask his problems for 5 years while we dick around and tread water. Find out if he has the goods right away.

    And I've seen a helluva lot more positives than negatives with Geno so far.

    If you're expecting this kid to look like a pro-bowler right out of the gate, then you might as well switch teams and root for an organization that already has an established QB in place.
    Because it's pretty damn obvious that you won't have the patience to experience the growing pains that EVERY young QB goes through.

  3. #43
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    As misguided as it is, if you want to make this comparison, it needs to be revisited midway through the season and at the end of the season. Sanchez had an extremely poor middle portion of the season which was littered with losses, turnovers, and the infamous color code system.

  4. #44
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    Sanchez looked better at this point, people just have short memories. Problem was that he didn't progress like he should have in years 3 and 4. And the arm strength stuff is misguided, Peyton's got the weakest arm in the league, but he's the best quarterback. The quarterback position isn't about how hard you can throw the ball.

    Geno's definitely shown some flashes, excited to see what he can become, but I'm staying cautiously optimistic.
    Last edited by Buzzsaw; 09-23-2013 at 11:31 PM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by McGinley View Post
    Peyton Manning first 3 starts: 0-3, 2 TDs, 8 INTs, 55.3%

    Good stuff.
    marks TRUE colors came out in game 4. Game 4 vs Saints...MARK showed up, followed by that GOD awful Buffalo game.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Nut View Post
    This offense with Geno at QB is lightyears ahead of what Sanchez ran.

    Not realizing that and taking that into account, along with the little fact that the 09 Jets were a better, more complete team with better WRs.

    Geno looks like he has the potential to carry a team.

    Sanchez, never, ever looked like he could. Always hoped that he would be an efficient game manager. No 2 QBs could be more dissimilar.

    /endthread

    Comparing the two QB's is stupid, both ways, Sanchez haters just can't give up their ignorance too.

    And comparing Sanchez' last 3 starts, really? Beyond moronic.

    Smith is running a completely different offense, and impressing

    But while Smith will improve each week as he gains confidence, he will also be facing new challenges as teams start to find out how to defend him, the real measurement, will be when Smith has to face controversy, how will he handle it, how will he bounce back as teams adjust?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsfreak View Post
    what do you mean geno fans are setting themselves up to fail....are you actually a jets fan......the majority of us are lifelong fans of the JETS...unlike YOU we are not rooting for one player. It's truly amazing our rookie qb is looking good and you bring up this thread....sorry that you are upset that Smith is the starter instead of your boy sanchez.....sheesh.
    You're right 2000+ posts. I can't possibly be a true Jets fan. Just trying to have a conversation- I love what I'm seeing from Geno. But this board is famous for people falling in and out of love faster than Lindsey Lohan...

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    /endthread

    Comparing the two QB's is stupid, both ways, Sanchez haters just can't give up their ignorance too.

    And comparing Sanchez' last 3 starts, really? Beyond moronic.

    Smith is running a completely different offense, and impressing

    But while Smith will improve each week as he gains confidence, he will also be facing new challenges as teams start to find out how to defend him, the real measurement, will be when Smith has to face controversy, how will he handle it, how will he bounce back as teams adjust?

    This 100%

    Why cant we just be happy for having a Good QB in Smith and a very good OC in MM....

    Why pretend like Sanchez played poorly all the time he didn't....

    Jets fans are embarrassing...

    Good Grief!!!

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by parafly View Post
    and the infamous color code system.
    Oh Jesus please no. My brain had removed this from memory I think... too painful.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlito1171 View Post


    Lets actually break down that Sanchez video there:

    1st pass: After the run fake, stares down his WR (on the replay, you can see the safety running to Sanchez's intended WR), pump fakes, and fumbles. Almost disaster at the start.

    2nd pass: An errant throw in tight coverage.

    3rd pass: Pump fake, horrible screen to the TE, who lost all momentum when he had to jump, gets tackled immediately.

    4th pass: Short arms a throw, well over the head of a covered WR.

    5th pass: A nice WR screen, with good blocking. I think this is his first good pass of the game.

    6th pass: Ofcourse, they go right back to it, and it gets blown up for a loss.

    7th pass: An excellent throw down the middle to Crotchery (NOTE THE VELOCITY). Very good pass.

    8th pass: TD Pass, excellent pass again with touch. 2 good passes in a row.

    9th pass: Pump fake, deep pass, over throws the ball. The DB has a better shot at catching that than the WR. But also, notice the velocity. This is the exact same coverage that Smith saw on the Holmes TD this past week. Sanchez threw it inside, so the inside DB was the only one who had a shot at it. Geno threw it a bit behind Holmes, so he could slow down and still have a shot.

    10th pass: Nice pass to the TE, good velocity to the 1st down marker.

    11th pass: Another WR screen, another first down.

    12th pass: An excellent pass down the middle, EXCELLENT velocity, and placed the ball only where his guy catches it. Excellent pass.

    13th pass: A good pass, but WR out of bounds. The pass is still good, WR just couldn't get his second foot in bounds. Excellent velocity again, notice the DB is in front of the WR, and he threw it past him.

    14th pass: A horrible pass, misses a wide open TD.

    15th pass: Pass swatted at the line, almost on INT.

    16th pass: a good pass to the RB down the middle for a 1st down.

    17th pass: A good pass on a curl route, notice the velocity again. Very good velocity.

    18th pass: A good pass over the middle.

    19th pass: A bad screen pass, gets blown up.

    20th pass: A decent pass, somewhat off, but WR catches it. Good velocity.

    21st pass: A bad pass as he gets drilled.

    22nd pass: A screen pass, doesn't get much yardage.

    23rd pass: The Sanchez special. 3rd down, leading in a close game. Rolls out, nothing there, spins with the ball exposed to avoid one tackle. Has an opportunity to throw it away, decides to just pump fake away, and gets sacked for a decent loss. Lost about 11 yards on the play and risked a fumble twice.

    So what do you see in this video?

    1. They really threw down the field once, incomplete, with the DB diving for a chance to get the INT.

    2. Almost all of his RB screens got blown up.

    3. Risky with the ball.

    4. Bad ball placement.

    And these things, he NEVER improved on. If you put up a tape of Sanchez from last year, you'll see the exact same problems that you are seeing in the 2009 tape.

    What is different? The velocity. Look at the velocity on those good passes. Whenever he made a good pass, it was because he had excellent velocity on the ball. He no longer has that, his arm speed has gone down, which is why he went from a game manager to being downright horrible. He doesn't have his one strength anymore, and the shoulder injury isn't going to help him one bit.

    Geno so far, to the eye test, has been better because he is MILES ahead in throwing the deep pass with accuracy. He gives his guys a chance to catch the pass. That eventually opens up passing lanes in the intermediate zones as safeties play back. He also throws a much better screen. I don't know if Sanchez was giving away signals of the screen or just bad passes, but pretty much all of his screens seem to blow up.

    Sanchez had ability, but for the people claiming he would be similar now to what Geno is doing is wrong, because Sanchez doesn't have the velocity anymore. Watch the throw by throw videos from '09, and you'll see very good velocity. Watch the throws from '11 or '12 and those passes have an arch to them. It no longer has the same zip. So when you combine his lack of velocity, with his other problems that were already evident in '09, you can see why he failed. And I counter by saying, Geno would thrive better than Sanchez did in the Schotty offense, because he would be able to throw the ball deep, and he is able to complete screen passes. You see plenty of screen passes called, it just failed. And face it, Sanchez's time is done here. He'll likely go somewhere to be a backup, exude confidence and make believe that he has turned a corner, and eventually he'll fail.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Nut View Post
    I didn't say a word about Shotty.
    Sure, but any comparison of Sanchez to Geno has to account for more than just statlines. It has to include the talent they had around them, field position and, equally important, play calling.

    Sanchez was incapable of running an offense the way Geno has so far.
    But we can't know that. Schotty's playcalling is markedly different from MM's and Sparano's was a joke. We've never seen Sanchez at the reins of an aggressive, pass-first type of offense in the NFL. I'm not a Sanchez apologist, like I said I was disgusted with that final INT against the Titans which was the last straw for me with the guy - and I wasn't even rooting for your team I was more, I dunno, offended as a football fan at what I had just seen.

    My point is that there's a cart and a horse thing going on with early assessment of the team when it comes to evaluating both MM and Geno and it's really just hypothetical at this point to try to say one QB would do better than the other in this offense. Maybe if Sanchez starts the 2011 season at the helm of an offense run by MM and not Schotty maybe he lights it up. Maybe if it's MM calling the plays more aggressively like he is now Sanchez doesn't become the bumbling fool we saw in 2012. We'll never know, but I wouldn't say anything is obvious about a QB about to start his 4th game and a 5th year vet with 2 AFC Championship game appearances under his belt.

  12. #52
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    How did Sanchez do in his 3rd, 4th and 5th games???? LOL

    How about 1 TD and 8 INTs. Sh*t got ugly fast.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by fnordcircle View Post
    Sure, but any comparison of Sanchez to Geno has to account for more than just statlines. It has to include the talent they had around them, field position and, equally important, play calling.

    But we can't know that. Schotty's playcalling is markedly different from MM's and Sparano's was a joke. We've never seen Sanchez at the reins of an aggressive, pass-first type of offense in the NFL. I'm not a Sanchez apologist, like I said I was disgusted with that final INT against the Titans which was the last straw for me with the guy - and I wasn't even rooting for your team I was more, I dunno, offended as a football fan at what I had just seen.

    My point is that there's a cart and a horse thing going on with early assessment of the team when it comes to evaluating both MM and Geno and it's really just hypothetical at this point to try to say one QB would do better than the other in this offense. Maybe if Sanchez starts the 2011 season at the helm of an offense run by MM and not Schotty maybe he lights it up. Maybe if it's MM calling the plays more aggressively like he is now Sanchez doesn't become the bumbling fool we saw in 2012. We'll never know, but I wouldn't say anything is obvious about a QB about to start his 4th game and a 5th year vet with 2 AFC Championship game appearances under his belt.
    You brought up Shotty, not me.

    Talent around them? Sanchez had much better talent around him. He had maybe the best OL in the league, the best D in the league and the best running game in the league.

    We do know that Sanchez couldn't run a passing game like this. Start with the FO not allowing him to at this point in comparison. Then when the Jets tried to open the passing game up it blew up with Sanchez at the controls. Hes not that kind of passer. He can win, but not like this.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by parafly View Post
    As misguided as it is, if you want to make this comparison, it needs to be revisited midway through the season and at the end of the season. Sanchez had an extremely poor middle portion of the season which was littered with losses, turnovers, and the infamous color code system.

    This

    people forget Sanchez made such an exciting start that the comparison between him and Geno at this point in their careers is close to identical....It's what happens next and what we found out about Sanchez in the 5 years since that clouds everything.

    Geno also doesn't have Schottenheimer or Sparano to deal with

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlito1171 View Post
    BINGO FELLAS!!!!

    some of the stats look to be in favor of Sanchez, but as you expand the facts and watch them play you'll see that there is no comparison. Sanchez was a rookie game manager..a mere pawn in the offense asked to not **** it up for the defense.....Geno is playing in Marty's WCO a Vertical offense with WC roots....Geno has been asked to do way more than Sanchez at this point, and possibly ever because of Geno's ability and the difference in the offensive scheme.



    http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-york-j...ets-highlights

    Sanchez T.O.'s: 6
    Geno's T.O.'s: 7

    Not much difference right?

    At least Geno is taking shots down the field trying to make plays, Sanchez was careless with the football all while being asked not to screw up....incredible
    @ 2:31. Wow, Rex was huge back in the day. Gastric band surgery ftw.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by k.Rhodes25 View Post
    Here is another cool stat. Sanchez NEVER had a 11 YPA in a regular season game in his career. The highest he had was 9 YPA.

    Geno is making throws Sanchez never made.
    Holy f*ck, did he really have 11 YPA? Throwing that many times for that many yards and still maintaining that average is nothing short of outstanding.

  17. #57
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    The real test will be in the next 7 games. It's hard to imagine but in 2009 after a 3-0 start, Sanchez lost 6 of 7 games on 6TDs to 14INTs.

    Quote Originally Posted by LAJET View Post
    Smith - 2-1, 3TD, 6INT, 53.9%

    Sanchez - 3-0, 4TD, 2INT, 59.4% (fixed)

    Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty pleased with Gino, and hate that Sanchez regressed, but let's not let facts get in the way of a good story.






    Let the flame wars begin....

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Win4ever View Post
    Lets actually break down that Sanchez video there:

    1st pass: After the run fake, stares down his WR (on the replay, you can see the safety running to Sanchez's intended WR), pump fakes, and fumbles. Almost disaster at the start.

    2nd pass: An errant throw in tight coverage.

    3rd pass: Pump fake, horrible screen to the TE, who lost all momentum when he had to jump, gets tackled immediately.

    4th pass: Short arms a throw, well over the head of a covered WR.

    5th pass: A nice WR screen, with good blocking. I think this is his first good pass of the game.

    6th pass: Ofcourse, they go right back to it, and it gets blown up for a loss.

    7th pass: An excellent throw down the middle to Crotchery (NOTE THE VELOCITY). Very good pass.

    8th pass: TD Pass, excellent pass again with touch. 2 good passes in a row.

    9th pass: Pump fake, deep pass, over throws the ball. The DB has a better shot at catching that than the WR. But also, notice the velocity. This is the exact same coverage that Smith saw on the Holmes TD this past week. Sanchez threw it inside, so the inside DB was the only one who had a shot at it. Geno threw it a bit behind Holmes, so he could slow down and still have a shot.

    10th pass: Nice pass to the TE, good velocity to the 1st down marker.

    11th pass: Another WR screen, another first down.

    12th pass: An excellent pass down the middle, EXCELLENT velocity, and placed the ball only where his guy catches it. Excellent pass.

    13th pass: A good pass, but WR out of bounds. The pass is still good, WR just couldn't get his second foot in bounds. Excellent velocity again, notice the DB is in front of the WR, and he threw it past him.

    14th pass: A horrible pass, misses a wide open TD.

    15th pass: Pass swatted at the line, almost on INT.

    16th pass: a good pass to the RB down the middle for a 1st down.

    17th pass: A good pass on a curl route, notice the velocity again. Very good velocity.

    18th pass: A good pass over the middle.

    19th pass: A bad screen pass, gets blown up.

    20th pass: A decent pass, somewhat off, but WR catches it. Good velocity.

    21st pass: A bad pass as he gets drilled.

    22nd pass: A screen pass, doesn't get much yardage.

    23rd pass: The Sanchez special. 3rd down, leading in a close game. Rolls out, nothing there, spins with the ball exposed to avoid one tackle. Has an opportunity to throw it away, decides to just pump fake away, and gets sacked for a decent loss. Lost about 11 yards on the play and risked a fumble twice.

    So what do you see in this video?

    1. They really threw down the field once, incomplete, with the DB diving for a chance to get the INT.

    2. Almost all of his RB screens got blown up.

    3. Risky with the ball.

    4. Bad ball placement.

    And these things, he NEVER improved on. If you put up a tape of Sanchez from last year, you'll see the exact same problems that you are seeing in the 2009 tape.

    What is different? The velocity. Look at the velocity on those good passes. Whenever he made a good pass, it was because he had excellent velocity on the ball. He no longer has that, his arm speed has gone down, which is why he went from a game manager to being downright horrible. He doesn't have his one strength anymore, and the shoulder injury isn't going to help him one bit.

    Geno so far, to the eye test, has been better because he is MILES ahead in throwing the deep pass with accuracy. He gives his guys a chance to catch the pass. That eventually opens up passing lanes in the intermediate zones as safeties play back. He also throws a much better screen. I don't know if Sanchez was giving away signals of the screen or just bad passes, but pretty much all of his screens seem to blow up.

    Sanchez had ability, but for the people claiming he would be similar now to what Geno is doing is wrong, because Sanchez doesn't have the velocity anymore. Watch the throw by throw videos from '09, and you'll see very good velocity. Watch the throws from '11 or '12 and those passes have an arch to them. It no longer has the same zip. So when you combine his lack of velocity, with his other problems that were already evident in '09, you can see why he failed. And I counter by saying, Geno would thrive better than Sanchez did in the Schotty offense, because he would be able to throw the ball deep, and he is able to complete screen passes. You see plenty of screen passes called, it just failed. And face it, Sanchez's time is done here. He'll likely go somewhere to be a backup, exude confidence and make believe that he has turned a corner, and eventually he'll fail.
    The observation regarding Sanchez's arm strength is legitimate. After Ngata blew him up in season 3, Sanchez's throws have not looked the same. I wonder if he has been hiding a shoulder injury the last couple of years.

  19. #59
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    Mark has aways had the physical tools the problem lay between his ears. That why the color code system on the arm band.
    Geno is a student of the game and spends hours in the film room. Mark on the other hand was spending hours chasing and banging babes. Not saying thy a bad thing, until you start regressing at you profession
    I have no interest in comparing the two, all I want to see from Geno is a steady progressive improvement in his understanding and performance. So far so good, three down many more to grow. It's my hope that by the end of the season we will have a solid starting QB going forward in to next year.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Nut View Post
    You brought up Shotty, not me.
    Right but, again, you brought up the talent that Sanchez had around him and you cannot compare past performances to current ones without considering all factors and a prominent one would be the OC who was making the play calls.

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