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Thread: Smith vs. Sanchez - through first 3 games rookie year

  1. #121
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    Sanchez is brain-dead. He doesn't have the IQ to be a GOOD NFL QB. He had no experience coming out of college. Carroll was right, he wasn't ready. He had no one to coach him once he got to the NFL. He has all the skills necessary to be good; not the brain.

    The only chance he has is if he was to sit a year or 2. Watch and learn by a competent coaching staff....

    Geno is the greater prospect coming out. He has all the tools Mark has and then some. Geno can actually read a defense, has a better arm/realease and is a threat with his legs. He also started 3 years in college. The only think Mark has over Geno coming out is 'footwork'.

    This isn't even close.

  2. #122
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    Sanchez is done in NY. But for a crippling cap hit, he would not even be on the team.

    That said, I do not believe any of us know what Sanchez "could" have been if the Jets O staff educated him rather than coddled him. Rather than make Sanchez into a leader and hold him to high standard, they set the bar low. He could not be responsible for knowing the playbook, so they simplified it for him, and even gave him a colored wrist band to remind him NOT to throw interceptions in the Red Zone. The Jets made teaching Sanchez how to slide feet first a media day event. He was surrounded by veteran leaders who stymied any chance he had of making the Jets "his" team. And, in my view the worst thing they did to Sanchez was to rely on ground and pound and consistently call "safe" short passing plays, rather than challenging Sanchez to read the D, see the whole field, and throw deep. Think about it. He had very little actual experience coming to the Jets. How do you learn? By doing! Rookie QB's should be given the chance to learn by giving them the opportunity to make ALL the plays a pro QB is supposed to make. Are they gonna make mistakes? Hell Yes! But even the great QB's make mistakes as they learn the position.

    Don't get me wrong. I am not saying Sanchez would have been anything special if he was handled differently. His ability to make mind-blowing bad decisions has been breathtaking. I'm just saying, it is hard to say what he would have been, if actually expected to play the position of NFL QB in his first few seasons. Compare it to how the O staff has handled Smith. The guy had an abbreviated exhibition season and they still expect him to make NFL caliber QB plays. No one is protecting Smith from himself. They are saying these are the plays you have to make, we believe you will learn best by "doing", and understand that this process necessarily involves you making mistakes.

  3. #123
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    Its amazing that this thread is 7 pages.

    Who cares about Smith vs Sanchez over 3 games? Sanchez had 8 interceptions in games 4 to 6. He has had 4 interceptions in his game at New England in week 10. No useful comparison comes from a three game sample. 8 games would be a better indicator.

  4. #124
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    We don't need the anti Jet frenzy from the press. We have it right her on JI.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjfollower View Post
    expanded numbers

    captain headband: 49 of 83 (59.04%), 606 yards, 4 TD passes, 2 INT, 5 sacks, 14 rushing yards, 1 rushing TD, 4 fumbles

    geno smith: 55 of 102 (53.9%), 801 yards, 3 TD passes, 6 INT, 9 sacks, 78 rushing yards, 1 rushing TD, 1 fumble

    Last season's Seattle team was a little bit like the Jets this season --- Rookie QB with an up and coming young D, but Seattle had a stud at RB for Wilson to lean one. Adding Wilson's stat to the mix makes it a little more interesting. BTW, Seattle was 2-1 with a miracle scab Refs-assisted win over the Packers.

    Russell Wilson 43 of 75 (57.33%) , 434 yards, 4 TD passes, 1 INT, 1 Sack, 66 rushing yards, 0 rushing TD, 1 Fumble

    Seattle had the luxury of letting Wilson grow on the job because he could lean on Lynch. Geno has no such luxury, It should be noted that with the exception of Int's and sacks Geno compares very favorably to Wilson and blows him away in yards. Also, if 4 of the dropped passes by Gates and Hill are caught, Geno has a higher completion percentage. The real question here is whether Geno will learn from his mistakes, which at this point, are basically limited to taking too many sacks and throwing interceptions. I find this very encouraging. I'm very satisfied with where Geno is especially after his very limited exhibition season play. In fact, if Gates catches the TD pass against the Pats leading to a Jets win and Geno cut the int's by 2, he would be the talk of the NFL.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    I have never been a Sanchez supporter but he looked good his 1st 3 games. Then we traded away Stuckey who was his 1st down guy was horrid pretty much the rest of the year right till the POs. Never understood how they traded away the guy he had the best timing with in preseason. Stuckey was our #6 going into camp and he clicked with Mark. You could tell he didnt trust Cotch early on. We also didnt utilize weapons like Smith, Leon, Keller, or Woodhead at all Marks rookie year. Had we kept Stuckey instead of making that stupid trade Mark may have had much better numbers as a rookie. Instead he ended up with a low 60s QBR and was stuck learning anther jag WR. They panicked after the NO game IMO. Before he really got started they took his favorite target away. That is the one thing they did to Mark I can honesty say didnt help him one bit. Stuckey should have never been on the table Marks rookie year. The WR core was already weak so they could have still made a trade and put him in the slot.
    You do realize Stuckey was traded to the Browns for Edwards, who ended up being one of Sanchez's favorite targets right? Pinning Mark's regression on the Jets trading Stuckey may be one of the craziest things I've ever read. Personally, I think defenses just caught onto his game immediately and he was extremely easy to gameplan against. He needed a "stoplight" wristband to help him in situations due to his horrid performances. Also his QBR was in the 30's. His passer rating may have been in the 60's...either way he was horrible and it wasn't because they traded away Chansi Stuckey....LOL.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlito1171 View Post
    On behalf of Jet Nation THANK GOD you don't call any shots for the Jets!!!!!!!

    Nobody won the QB competition.....it was inconclusive due to Geno and Mark getting injured.....and the fact that Sanchez (a 5th year starter) couldnt win the job undisputedly from a second round draft pick causing you to make up facts that don't exist should tell you all you need to know...

    Have fun watching mark hold a clipboard the rest of his career.....Geno ain't giving that job back bro....
    Geno was god awful in the preason, Do you really think he was going to be the starting QB ? Give it a rest

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario View Post
    Its amazing that this thread is 7 pages.

    Who cares about Smith vs Sanchez over 3 games? Sanchez had 8 interceptions in games 4 to 6. He has had 4 interceptions in his game at New England in week 10. No useful comparison comes from a three game sample. 8 games would be a better indicator.
    The point shouldn't be that Sanchez is better than Smith, based on what they did in their first 3 games as a pro.

    The valid point is that we shouldn't get too ecstatic over Smith leading us to a 2-1 record in his first 3 games, when Sanchez led us to 3-0 and played better in his first 3 games. We saw what happened to Sanchez over the next couple years, and the same thing or worse could happen to Smith. Or he could be better, three games isn't enough to evaluate a QB. Smith brings hope, but the expectations should be measured

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsfreak10 View Post
    You do realize Stuckey was traded to the Browns for Edwards, who ended up being one of Sanchez's favorite targets right? Pinning Mark's regression on the Jets trading Stuckey may be one of the craziest things I've ever read. Personally, I think defenses just caught onto his game immediately and he was extremely easy to gameplan against. He needed a "stoplight" wristband to help him in situations due to his horrid performances. Also his QBR was in the 30's. His passer rating may have been in the 60's...either way he was horrible and it wasn't because they traded away Chansi Stuckey....LOL.
    Ha I found that amusing too.. Edwards was great trade, far better reciever for Sanchez/jets than stuckey.. If you recall before that trade EVERYONE was packing 8 in the box knowing jets liked to run and Dscdidn't worry about Sanchez throwing deep (stuckey was a short slot guy) Edwards open up the O a lot.. Big target for Sanchez who often did not throw perfect balls.. Edwards was a deep threat that Ds had to take seriously therefore could not pack the box so our run game got better after trade.. This protected mark because he had less guys rushing at him and gave him more time to throw.. Plus Edwards was a very good blocker on the outside..

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpoppy7 View Post
    The point shouldn't be that Sanchez is better than Smith, based on what they did in their first 3 games as a pro.

    The valid point is that we shouldn't get too ecstatic over Smith leading us to a 2-1 record in his first 3 games, when Sanchez led us to 3-0 and played better in his first 3 games. We saw what happened to Sanchez over the next couple years, and the same thing or worse could happen to Smith. Or he could be better, three games isn't enough to evaluate a QB. Smith brings hope, but the expectations should be measured
    Of course that's true.. But it's highly likely smith will be better than Sanchez only because its hard to be worse.. Marty is not coddling geno at all which itself is surprising as a rookie.. Geno has been asked to do much more than mark and has done a pretty good job.. Sure he can take a unexpected turn, but he is poised and is hard on himself about improving.. Mark never was like that..

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike309 View Post
    Geno was god awful in the preason, Do you really think he was going to be the starting QB ? Give it a rest
    Who still cares about this? Its week 4 and Geno is the starter regardless of whether he won the job based on PRESEASON performance or not.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mogglez View Post
    Braylon was at one point a Pro Bowler. Many felt a change of scenery would help him return to form and it's hard to argue that he didn't after the '10 season.

    Leon was a Pro Bowl kick returner who was on his way to being a deadly RB in '09 before he suffered his injury.

    Thomas Jones was a Pro Bowler RB in '08 and rushed for 1400+ yds in '09 should've probably gone that year too but his performance was overshadowed by Chris Johnson rushing for 2,000 yards.

    His entire offensive line consisted of Pro Bowlers.

    He had the #1 defense in the league.

    Things change, players got hurt/got old, and contract choices had to be made. Sh*t happens, but a franchise guy should be able to overcome all that. You cant give every guy a massive contract. This isn't friggin baseball.

    You are honestly embarrassing yourself. For your own good, please stop posting.
    This Jets defense might be better than that Jets deffense. Braylon was not Pro Bowler here. Leon was on the squad for special team, not as an every down back. The offensive line has the same 2 guys, Brick and Mangold. Thomas Jones , was with second group of backs on the pro bowl team, and they quickly got rid of him. Again the Jets are 2 -1 , both wins coming at home against teams that are 1-5 combined.The Bucs game was a gift. Lets not make plans for a parade just yet.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Nut View Post
    I live in a world that apparently is strange to you. One where you fail on your own, you aren't the one and only case in the history of the NFL where your failure to become what people hoped you would become is blamed on everyone other than you. Sorry, I don't buy that nonsense. Sanchez failed because he didn't have what we all wanted him have, couldn't take the next steps towards becoming a franchise QB.

    Blaming Rex, Shotty and every other coach who came in contact with him is an excuse. If you have talent and drive it will come through with work. No matter who your coaches are.
    Just like Brady's talent came through with the raw wideouts he was forced to play with in the Jets game. Just like "elite" Eli Manning's talent is shining through for the Gmen because their oline is a turnstile and have no run game - like the Jets in 2011-2012. Football is the ultimate team sport ,if you want to be short sighted and place the blame on one individual be my guest. Rex the coaching staff and the FO share a large portion of blame for Sanchez not becoming a better QB period.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood Nosebleed View Post
    I thought Sanchez could have been a top 15 maybe eventually bottom top 10 after his first 2 years. He was a game manager who was clutch in the 4th quarter. Yes we took away his weapons and it hurt his growth. However, he made the same stupid mistakes he made as a rookie in year 4. Sanchez needs a change of scenery because he will never succeed here.

    It's Geno's time now and I like what I've seen so far. He's not a game manager and can make all the throws. Also long as he can clean up his rookie mistakes he will be here for a long time. If not everyone will ask for his head like they do marks. Only difference is Geno's contract isn't killing us.
    I think your referring to MM , as not being a game manager.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN View Post
    Sanchez is done in NY. But for a crippling cap hit, he would not even be on the team.

    That said, I do not believe any of us know what Sanchez "could" have been if the Jets O staff educated him rather than coddled him. Rather than make Sanchez into a leader and hold him to high standard, they set the bar low. He could not be responsible for knowing the playbook, so they simplified it for him, and even gave him a colored wrist band to remind him NOT to throw interceptions in the Red Zone. The Jets made teaching Sanchez how to slide feet first a media day event. He was surrounded by veteran leaders who stymied any chance he had of making the Jets "his" team. And, in my view the worst thing they did to Sanchez was to rely on ground and pound and consistently call "safe" short passing plays, rather than challenging Sanchez to read the D, see the whole field, and throw deep. Think about it. He had very little actual experience coming to the Jets. How do you learn? By doing! Rookie QB's should be given the chance to learn by giving them the opportunity to make ALL the plays a pro QB is supposed to make. Are they gonna make mistakes? Hell Yes! But even the great QB's make mistakes as they learn the position.

    Don't get me wrong. I am not saying Sanchez would have been anything special if he was handled differently. His ability to make mind-blowing bad decisions has been breathtaking. I'm just saying, it is hard to say what he would have been, if actually expected to play the position of NFL QB in his first few seasons. Compare it to how the O staff has handled Smith. The guy had an abbreviated exhibition season and they still expect him to make NFL caliber QB plays. No one is protecting Smith from himself. They are saying these are the plays you have to make, we believe you will learn best by "doing", and understand that this process necessarily involves you making mistakes.
    Excellent post and in line with the thoughts here of those who are accused of being Sanchez apologists.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Win4ever View Post
    Lets actually break down that Sanchez video there:

    1st pass: After the run fake, stares down his WR (on the replay, you can see the safety running to Sanchez's intended WR), pump fakes, and fumbles. Almost disaster at the start.

    2nd pass: An errant throw in tight coverage.

    3rd pass: Pump fake, horrible screen to the TE, who lost all momentum when he had to jump, gets tackled immediately.

    4th pass: Short arms a throw, well over the head of a covered WR.

    5th pass: A nice WR screen, with good blocking. I think this is his first good pass of the game.

    6th pass: Ofcourse, they go right back to it, and it gets blown up for a loss.

    7th pass: An excellent throw down the middle to Crotchery (NOTE THE VELOCITY). Very good pass.

    8th pass: TD Pass, excellent pass again with touch. 2 good passes in a row.

    9th pass: Pump fake, deep pass, over throws the ball. The DB has a better shot at catching that than the WR. But also, notice the velocity. This is the exact same coverage that Smith saw on the Holmes TD this past week. Sanchez threw it inside, so the inside DB was the only one who had a shot at it. Geno threw it a bit behind Holmes, so he could slow down and still have a shot.

    10th pass: Nice pass to the TE, good velocity to the 1st down marker.

    11th pass: Another WR screen, another first down.

    12th pass: An excellent pass down the middle, EXCELLENT velocity, and placed the ball only where his guy catches it. Excellent pass.

    13th pass: A good pass, but WR out of bounds. The pass is still good, WR just couldn't get his second foot in bounds. Excellent velocity again, notice the DB is in front of the WR, and he threw it past him.

    14th pass: A horrible pass, misses a wide open TD.

    15th pass: Pass swatted at the line, almost on INT.

    16th pass: a good pass to the RB down the middle for a 1st down.

    17th pass: A good pass on a curl route, notice the velocity again. Very good velocity.

    18th pass: A good pass over the middle.

    19th pass: A bad screen pass, gets blown up.

    20th pass: A decent pass, somewhat off, but WR catches it. Good velocity.

    21st pass: A bad pass as he gets drilled.

    22nd pass: A screen pass, doesn't get much yardage.

    23rd pass: The Sanchez special. 3rd down, leading in a close game. Rolls out, nothing there, spins with the ball exposed to avoid one tackle. Has an opportunity to throw it away, decides to just pump fake away, and gets sacked for a decent loss. Lost about 11 yards on the play and risked a fumble twice.

    So what do you see in this video?

    1. They really threw down the field once, incomplete, with the DB diving for a chance to get the INT.

    2. Almost all of his RB screens got blown up.

    3. Risky with the ball.

    4. Bad ball placement.

    And these things, he NEVER improved on. If you put up a tape of Sanchez from last year, you'll see the exact same problems that you are seeing in the 2009 tape.

    What is different? The velocity. Look at the velocity on those good passes. Whenever he made a good pass, it was because he had excellent velocity on the ball. He no longer has that, his arm speed has gone down, which is why he went from a game manager to being downright horrible. He doesn't have his one strength anymore, and the shoulder injury isn't going to help him one bit.

    Geno so far, to the eye test, has been better because he is MILES ahead in throwing the deep pass with accuracy. He gives his guys a chance to catch the pass. That eventually opens up passing lanes in the intermediate zones as safeties play back. He also throws a much better screen. I don't know if Sanchez was giving away signals of the screen or just bad passes, but pretty much all of his screens seem to blow up.

    Sanchez had ability, but for the people claiming he would be similar now to what Geno is doing is wrong, because Sanchez doesn't have the velocity anymore. Watch the throw by throw videos from '09, and you'll see very good velocity. Watch the throws from '11 or '12 and those passes have an arch to them. It no longer has the same zip. So when you combine his lack of velocity, with his other problems that were already evident in '09, you can see why he failed. And I counter by saying, Geno would thrive better than Sanchez did in the Schotty offense, because he would be able to throw the ball deep, and he is able to complete screen passes. You see plenty of screen passes called, it just failed. And face it, Sanchez's time is done here. He'll likely go somewhere to be a backup, exude confidence and make believe that he has turned a corner, and eventually he'll fail.
    This is probably the best breakdown of why Sanchez had the problems he had I've seen yet. It would have been nice to see ESPN or other really look at this the way you did.

  17. #137
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    The Pick 6ers are so salty right now, lol.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by wepnx View Post
    This is probably the best breakdown of why Sanchez had the problems he had I've seen yet. It would have been nice to see ESPN or other really look at this the way you did.
    Thanks. I don't think ESPN or main stream media care much about breaking anything down. All they care about is controversy.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Win4ever View Post
    Thanks. I don't think ESPN or main stream media care much about breaking anything down. All they care about is controversy.
    Agree totally.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleansweep2013 View Post
    Ha I found that amusing too.. Edwards was great trade, far better reciever for Sanchez/jets than stuckey.. If you recall before that trade EVERYONE was packing 8 in the box knowing jets liked to run and Dscdidn't worry about Sanchez throwing deep (stuckey was a short slot guy) Edwards open up the O a lot.. Big target for Sanchez who often did not throw perfect balls.. Edwards was a deep threat that Ds had to take seriously therefore could not pack the box so our run game got better after trade.. This protected mark because he had less guys rushing at him and gave him more time to throw.. Plus Edwards was a very good blocker on the outside..
    Great trade is an exaggeration Edwards was a flop. Stuckey wasnt a great WR but he and Mark connected. Trading his #1 4 games in didnt help Mark one bit. Thinning out the WR core by trading Marks best WR in camp yeah great trade. I loved Edwards when he came here but it is obvious he did nothing for this team here. The few BE supports here are insane IMO. His play as a JET was horrid.

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