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Thread: Here's my take on the government shutdown...

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    Well, that is what I am hoping for.
    I don't believe hope is required. Some will hurf-a-blurf for politics, but in the end, you'll be paid. Of that I have no doubt of any kind.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    Ken does not care about people pain. Ken only cares about what is "good for all", i.e. Communist Medicine.

    If you must suffer, wait, go untreated or untested so that one unemployed drug addict can have free (i.e. paid for by you) care, Ken would make that choice in a heartbeat.

    Ken would make an excellent Director of the NHS in the UK.
    Ooh, Warfish why don't you tell me your true feelings about Kenny?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    1. Why is healthcare insurance special? We make people buy car insurance, homeowner's insurance, can't open a business without liability insurance. What aren't these my choice?
    No, we don't. You don't need car insurance; you simply cannot own a car without it. You don't need homeowner's insurance; you simply cannot get a home loan (or FEMA aid) without it. The equivalent wouldn't be to mandate everyone purchase health insurance; it would be to prohibit treatment without it.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    No, we don't. You don't need car insurance; you simply cannot own a car without it. You don't need homeowner's insurance; you simply cannot get a home loan (or FEMA aid) without it. The equivalent wouldn't be to mandate everyone purchase health insurance; it would be to prohibit treatment without it.
    NONENSE. We only need liability insurance. Car insurance implies when you get minimum coverage on your automobile that you are covered for things like collision, etc. NOT the case. Most states only require LIABILITY insurance and that is a far cry from full coverage.

    It is also NONSENSE to say we are REQUIRED to have homeowners insurance. Not true. We just have to have it if we want to get a loan. However, if we own our home, we can do whatever the f*ck we want. We are NOT required to have homeowners insurance.

    Now, I certainly wouldn't suggest anyone to go without homeowners insurance if they own their home. Sounds like a pretty dumb move. But to say things like homeowners insurance is required by law is simply inaccurate and does not tell the whole truth, especially when you are debating health care.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    Listen, I'll take your word for it. It may be that way where you are. But it certainly is not where I live. Myself, and any other veteran I know would rather suffer than trying to get seen in Togus, Maine. It's f*cking brutal. Prime example, my uncle that is in his 80's now, needed replacement knees. It took the VA two years with all this bureaucratic BS before he finally got his prosthetic knees. Meanwhile, he was forced to deal with the severe pain associated with deteriorating knees. Meanwhile, this is a democrat mind you, b*tching to high heaven about how bad the VA sucks.
    While I can understand your uncle's frustration, the truth of the matter is that knee replacements are not medical emergencies. Knee pain from degenerative joint disease can be managed with non-surgical means. While waiting 2 years may seem unacceptable to most, from a medical perspective, its not all that crazy.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    Ken does not care about people pain. Ken only cares about what is "good for all", i.e. Communist Medicine.

    If you must suffer, wait, go untreated or untested so that one unemployed drug addict can have free (i.e. paid for by you) care, Ken would make that choice in a heartbeat.

    Ken would make an excellent Director of the NHS in the UK.
    Im sorry Warfish. You are wrong. I do care about peoples pain. Knee replacement is not the only solution to dealing with knee pain from degenerative joint disease and is certainly not a medical emergency.
    The truth is we waste a lot of money doing things that do not make medical sense. A government health policy should cover items that only make medical sense. If you want services that make no medical sense, you are free to pay for it on your own.

    And why did you chose the UK's NHS. Why not director of Germany or France's public health systems, you know, the ones that deliver better care than even ours.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by kennyo7 View Post
    While I can understand your uncle's frustration, the truth of the matter is that knee replacements are not medical emergencies. Knee pain from degenerative joint disease can be managed with non-surgical means. While waiting 2 years may seem unacceptable to most, from a medical perspective, its not all that crazy.
    Oh, so in fact the truth of it is the VA is not this great HC that you make it out to be, it's just great for the people that you happen to be thinking of? Also, myself and my uncle served their country oversesas, but now our problem is not as important as others?

    And to confront your claim that the VA controls costs... That is pure nonsense. Medical providers and medical supply companies DO NOT sell their products and services at a loss. That sh*t costs money and they are damn sure going to make a profit, or else they will stop selling it.

    The VA has only "CONTROLLED" costs at the cost of others. So although it is almost free for me, depending on the procedure I am having done, it likely means someone else is getting bent over a barrel.

    That is not controlling costs. That is robbing Peter to pay Paul and it is crap. It also covers up the real problem here which I have already spoken of and that is making healthcare affordable for any American that wants it.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    Oh, so in fact the truth of it is the VA is not this great HC that you make it out to be, it's just great for the people that you happen to be thinking of? Also, myself and my uncle served their country oversesas, but now our problem is not as important as others?
    The way I read it is it is not an emergency because it isn't happening to him or someone he loves. Other people can manage without being able to walk. Also the knee replacement does make medical sense which is why he is on a 2 year wait list. It definitely doesn't make NO medical sense. It just isn't the VA's priority and they are ok with allowing your uncle to wait and be in pain and suggest (abuse of) pain killers for comfort for 2 years to control cost. There has to be a reasonable distinction between medical emergency (ie:done today) and having to wait 2 years. I doubt your uncle expected to hobble in to the emergency room and get new knees but 2 years is crazy.

  9. #29
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    The Affordable Care Act is law, like it or not. If you don't like the law, then repeal it or write a new law to replace it. Congress is failing its job miserably, and economically holding the country hostage serves no good.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by parafly View Post
    The Affordable Care Act is law, like it or not. If you don't like the law, then repeal it or write a new law to replace it. Congress is failing its job miserably, and economically holding the country hostage serves no good.
    Had a good laugh last night, a bud was looking up the much ballywhoo'd "plans under $100/month" the administration has been bragging about for the uninsured.

    Two interesting facts came to light....

    1. Plan costs more than $100 out of pocket, it's the tax credit the buyer will get in the future (and each year) that reduced the cost to an average of under $100/month.

    2. The Plans in this cost bracket cover almost nothing, and include a $5,000 per person deductible, i.e. the first $5,000 in expenses will be paid out of pocket by the individual.

    Judge for yourself if these are concerns or not. I'm guessing a "poor person" who is now legally required to buy at the least this plan will be quite the unhappy camper when they get their first bill.

    The ones I feel for are the folsk whose employers have cut their Health Insurance benefits and who are now being forced into this exchange. Thos folsk will find (I think) vastly inferior service than what they were getting.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by kennyo7 View Post
    Im sorry Warfish. You are wrong. I do care about peoples pain.
    Quote Originally Posted by kennyo
    While waiting 2 years (for an expectionally painful knee problem that required a replacement) may seem unacceptable to most, from a medical perspective, its not all that crazy.
    Yup, sure sounds compassionate to me. Sounds just like the NHS lackey who told my mother recently that it's be at least 2 months before she's be seen for her crippling knee pain. You care about pain in a very general, detached way Ken, the "pain" of the so-called poor not getting a free handout at our expense. But real pain.....for a Doctor, you come accorss here as cold, uncaring and cruel as anyone whose discussed the issue here.

    Like your "Knee replacement is not the only solution to dealing with knee pain from degenerative joint disease and is certainly not a medical emergency" line of reasoning, the NHS is happy to give folsk highly addictive pain medication instead of actual care, regardless of patients past history of such meds causing them great problems.

    The truth is we waste a lot of money....
    The truth is you prioritize the medical care of unproductive non-working, non-paying layabouts and welfare vaccums over tax paying Americans, and would force a Universal System upon us all that would not only create far longer waits for service for prodcuctive people vs. today, but would also be very liable to begin using political considerations for prioritization fo treatment, as is done is almost every other Govt. program in the U.S. Women and minorities to the top ofthe line, for histroical bias reasons, white men cn wait for their care.....who pays the tax that pays for it be damned, right Ken?

    And why did you chose the UK's NHS.
    Because I know how it works, the harm and suffering it causes, and that it's the system most likely to be in place here within the next 50 years or so.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    Had a good laugh last night, a bud was looking up the much ballywhoo'd "plans under $100/month" the administration has been bragging about for the uninsured.

    Two interesting facts came to light....

    1. Plan costs more than $100 out of pocket, it's the tax credit the buyer will get in the future (and each year) that reduced the cost to an average of under $100/month.

    2. The Plans in this cost bracket cover almost nothing, and include a $5,000 per person deductible, i.e. the first $5,000 in expenses will be paid out of pocket by the individual.

    Judge for yourself if these are concerns or not. I'm guessing a "poor person" who is now legally required to buy at the least this plan will be quite the unhappy camper when they get their first bill.

    The ones I feel for are the folsk whose employers have cut their Health Insurance benefits and who are now being forced into this exchange. Thos folsk will find (I think) vastly inferior service than what they were getting.
    They are concerns, but they are totally expected in my opinion.

    When you combine employer and employee costs for a HDHP in today's market, it typically costs a few hundred dollars a month. The Affordable Care Act is poorly named. Any decreases in health insurance costs due to a bigger pool are easily offset by the various mandates put on medical coverage.

    We had an employment based, for-profit, private health care system, and nothing has fundamentally changed.

  13. #33
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    Let's go back to the old system where people with no insurance go to the hospital, get treated, don't pay their bill an the cost is absorbed by people who do have health insurance.

    Worked great for years. No idea why Dummycrats would try to change that. Don't rock the proverbial boat...

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by parafly View Post
    The Affordable Care Act is law, like it or not. If you don't like the law, then repeal it or write a new law to replace it. Congress is failing its job miserably, and economically holding the country hostage serves no good.
    You are a guy that gets it.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Let's go back to the old system where people with no insurance go to the hospital, get treated, don't pay their bill an the cost is absorbed by people who do have health insurance.

    Worked great for years. No idea why Dummycrats would try to change that. Don't rock the proverbial boat...
    The old system was due to go bankrupt in 10 years or so.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMJK View Post
    The old system was due to go bankrupt in 10 years or so.
    Nah.

    It was perfect! I don't need health care...I have Jesus and the power of prayer...

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Let's go back to the old system where people with no insurance go to the hospital, get treated, don't pay their bill an the cost is absorbed by people who do have health insurance.

    Worked great for years. No idea why Dummycrats would try to change that. Don't rock the proverbial boat...
    I would suggest that people should not be allowed to steal their care as you did PK. That bill should have lived with you as long as you didn't pay it.

    The problem is people who choose not to do basic things, like get health insurance, then turn round and blame the rest of us when they get sick.

    It's a bit odd to BE the problem, then complain ABOUT the problem, doncha think?

    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Nah.

    It was perfect! I don't need health care...I have Jesus and the power of prayer...
    How did signing up go for you today PK?
    Last edited by Churchill; 10-01-2013 at 05:18 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    No, we don't. You don't need car insurance; you simply cannot own a car without it. You don't need homeowner's insurance; you simply cannot get a home loan (or FEMA aid) without it. The equivalent wouldn't be to mandate everyone purchase health insurance; it would be to prohibit treatment without it.
    You are of course right, so I will restate.

    Unless you wanna live the Unabomber's life...

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    NONENSE. We only need liability insurance. Car insurance implies when you get minimum coverage on your automobile that you are covered for things like collision, etc. NOT the case. Most states only require LIABILITY insurance and that is a far cry from full coverage.

    It is also NONSENSE to say we are REQUIRED to have homeowners insurance. Not true. We just have to have it if we want to get a loan. However, if we own our home, we can do whatever the f*ck we want. We are NOT required to have homeowners insurance.

    Now, I certainly wouldn't suggest anyone to go without homeowners insurance if they own their home. Sounds like a pretty dumb move. But to say things like homeowners insurance is required by law is simply inaccurate and does not tell the whole truth, especially when you are debating health care.
    If this was a response to me, you clearly didn't read my post

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    You are of course right, so I will restate.

    Unless you wanna live the Unabomber's life...
    Or rent a house/apartment (or pay in full rather than borrow), and take public transportation. I'd say most NYers don't have either or both car/homeowner's insurance

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