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Thread: Jets: # 2 Defense, # 14 Offense

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Fair enough. But then at what point do we stop calling this defense elite and Rex an elite defensive coach. If everyone is the same and giving up points bc of the rules then nobody is elite.

    Cant have it both ways.
    How many times can you say this trying to make some kind of point?

    Who is or has called this D elite?

    Even your whipping boy, our HC doesn't call them more than what they are, a top 5 D.

    There are and have been only a handful of elite Ds for a friggen reason.

    What happened to fans that no one can just enjoy the games without find something to whine about? Its not enough to win and to have the #2 D. We have to whine about when the few points we gave up were given up.
    Last edited by Jet Nut; 10-09-2013 at 03:34 PM.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by revischrist View Post
    How about this angle, we are 3-2 despite having a QB with far more turnovers than TDs. If we had an average defense we would be 0-5 or 1-4 right now. Defense can keep you in games when your offense faulters.

    I do agree, that its better to have a great offense lead by Peyton Manning than a great defense lead by Mo Wilk. But that isn't breaking news. Franchise QBs win super bowls is also not a novel idea.

    But until you find a franchise QB, you need to find ways to win and I contend that if our offense is average and our defense is 1 or 2, there is no reason why we can't make the playoffs this year. Personally, I don't think Flacco/Elli are that great, but they had good runs with excellent defenses. Since 2005 the Patriots haven't won a super bowl despite having one of the greatest QBs of all time and arguably, the best QB of All time, peyton has only 1 super bowl in his career. Both of those facts are due to the teams inability to play quality defense.
    Great post!

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Nut View Post
    One day this fanbase will be able to be happy with what they have. At least only one fool thought the D cost us a game in NE

    The league has changed, between rule changes that favor the offense and a cap that makes it next to impossible to assemble the talent on the DL, LBs and DBs to completely shut teams down all day.

    Its pretty simple. You're looking for a D I've seen a handful of time in all the years of watching the NFL. Bears and Ravens D aren't going to be seen again. But it won't stop some from expecting it here
    What's ironic about that game is many here say if only Gates/Hill etc could hold onto the ball we would have won. What they fail to mention is if the Patriort wr's who ran free deep all night held onto the ball the Jets get blown out.
    Sure looking at the boxscore the turnover's and drops on O cost us the game , but the defense wasn't without its problems.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by nyjfollower View Post
    meh - overzealous refs throwing phantom holding penalties is part of the slant towards offense. They stopped the Falcons IMO.
    It is an undeniable problem.

    Defended by others as..well the offense needs to get a 1st down etc... Regardless, we seem to leak from the seems in the last 5 minutes.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    It's scary how quickly things can change, ugh? Last year we all thought this team was a mess and it would be a long road back to contention. Well, only 5 games into the following season and they just may be on their way to the playoffs?

    I don't see this team as a playoff team. With the lack in talent that they have on offense, I would only believe they would make the playoffs when I saw them do it. But just the same it is impossible to simply ignore how well they have played thus far. I figured 5 games into this season they would be 1-4 or even 0-5.

    This is very encouraging and I couldn't he happier.
    Here's the thing, we're somehow 3-2 now and:

    1) Unlike most starters, Geno had to share reps in TC and preseason. So it's reasonable to expect that he'll tend to improve as the season wears on.

    2) Our RB's are finally on the field together so it's reasonable to expect the committee will tend to improve over time.

    3) We have 7 new starters on defense who should also improve as time passes.

    4) we have a new OC installing a new system. See above re improvement.

    So while I hate to get my hopes up too high, I think there is a reasonable chance for postseason action.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by revischrist View Post
    I was saying all pre-season long that if our offense can be middle of the pack (ranked 15 or so), we will make the playoffs. Of course, at that time the notion of our offense being ranked 14th was comical to most (including myself). If we keep it up on offense, we will be very hard to beat.
    Nice post. I agree.

    Who would have thought we would excel in this new offensive system with a rookie QB. Very nice

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by LIJetsFan View Post
    Here's the thing, we're somehow 3-2 now and:

    1) Unlike most starters, Geno had to share reps in TC and preseason. So it's reasonable to expect that he'll tend to improve as the season wears on.

    2) Our RB's are finally on the field together so it's reasonable to expect the committee will tend to improve over time.

    3) We have 7 new starters on defense who should also improve as time passes.

    4) we have a new OC installing a new system. See above re improvement.

    So while I hate to get my hopes up too high, I think there is a reasonable chance for postseason action.
    I never really thought about it like that, but you're right. There is reason to be optimistic.

    However, I do think their ceiling may not be much higher. The roster currently IMO is not sticking out with big name talent.

    But there again, they still won with these WR's no one has ever heard of to quote Jon Gruden on Mike and Mike this morning.

    I predicted 5-11. That certainly appears to be absurd at this point. But I also believe 11-5 is equally absurd as some have pointed out here.

    And, NO you don't hate to get your hopes up... You want like HELL to get your hopes up, just like I do, you're just afraid of having your hopes dashed, just like I do. So you try to keep your hopes in check so in case they fall on their faces, you will not hurt as bad. JUST LIKE I DO.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    We are stout against the run in a passing league. Forgive me for not jizzing all over myself bc of our #1 run D.

    What I would prefer is a defense with a conventional pass rush that is opportunistic. And I would like to be able to hold a 2 score lead in the 4th. I don't care if we rack up stats for the first 50 or 55 minutes bc when we spit the bit in the last 5 minutes none of that matters.
    That's disgusting. I want to scratch my eyes out of my head right now.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by BX Jet Fan View Post
    If you go by points we are about average.
    True,but points allowed do not account for turnovers, pick 6s, or turnovers that put the defense on the field at their own goal line. That is why knowledgeable football fans talk about yards allowed and not points allowed.

  10. #90
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    The team so far is way better than I expected. Rex has done a really nice job in getting the most out of the roster. And while winning is the most important thing, this year's team has been fun to watch as well

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by revischrist View Post
    True,but points allowed do not account for turnovers, pick 6s, or turnovers that put the defense on the field at their own goal line. That is why knowledgeable football fans talk about yards allowed and not points allowed.
    Correct, and the points allowed don't take into consideration what happens on a short field when the O turns the ball over in their own side. Kind of hard to prevent someone from scoring when they are handed the ball on the 15 yard line, no matter how good the defense is.

  12. #92
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    Rex has got to stop with the prevent defense towards the end of games. As Ray said in the post game show "the prevent defense, prevents you from winning".

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by revischrist View Post
    True,but points allowed do not account for turnovers, pick 6s, or turnovers that put the defense on the field at their own goal line. That is why knowledgeable football fans talk about yards allowed and not points allowed.
    How many pick 6's and turnovers did we have when Atlanta put 28 points up on the board? Look, we have a great Dline and a good defense overall. The 4th down stop against Atlanta to end the half was awesome. I just get tired of people saying we have an elite D when we don't. I also get tired of people pointing to one stat where our D does well and going from that to we are elite. To me, an elite D, when they need a stop, gets it more times than not. It just seems like we fail to get a stop too many times when it counts.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    LOL. All I did was ask a question and present a fact.

    Signed
    Nancy.
    It would be kin to, "why do you constantly parrot articles" fact?

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by shevys View Post
    Correct, and the points allowed don't take into consideration what happens on a short field when the O turns the ball over in their own side. Kind of hard to prevent someone from scoring when they are handed the ball on the 15 yard line, no matter how good the defense is.
    But if you subtract out all of those extraneous circumstances, it is the be all, end all of determining factors. That number is what is most important, more than any other in the game, besides wins and losses.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by bcess View Post
    It would be kin to, "why do you constantly parrot articles" fact?
    Fact-put me on ignore.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    But if you subtract out all of those extraneous circumstances, it is the be all, end all of determining factors. That number is what is most important, more than any other in the game, besides wins and losses.
    I think the question is how well does it measure the effectiveness of a defense rather than how strong of a "determining factor" points allowed in a football game is. Points allowed is certainly a huge factor but it's overly simplistic to consider it the be all end all measure of how good a defense is IMO.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Fact-put me on ignore.
    I'd hate to miss your 21,937th post of someone else's article

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by bcess View Post
    I'd hate to miss your 21,937th post of someone else's article
    Wow, you're being a bit of an ass here. There is a world of difference between Kelly and C Mart.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by bcess View Post
    I'd hate to miss your 21,937th post of someone else's article
    Enjoy your life.

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