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Thread: Total Bull$%!*

  1. #1
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    Total Bull$%!*

    I normally don't like to delve into politics much, peoples minds are usually made up one way or the other, so any discussion quickly becomes useless.

    But this latest story about the military deaths, and our government shutdown has me completely disgusted.

    I get that both sides want to politicize the shutdown to their own benefit, but this is way over the line, and so very wrong.

    So 26 soldiers have died since the shutdown, 4 of which were on active duty in Afghanistan until they we killed last week by a roadside bomb. I'm watching the news, and apparently, these 4 soldiers who died last weekend, are being used as political pawns. Under usual circumstances, the government pays for their burial, as well as plane fare for the families to either claim their bodies at Dover, or wherever they are being hospitalized on life support. The government also gives the families 100,000 as a death gratuity.

    It's reported that the House, Senate and the President signed off on a bill, before the shutdown, to continue these benefits in the event of a shutdown.

    But somewhere, someone decided to not allow this. Chuck Hagel, of the Pentagon, says his hands are tied, and he claims he got the orders from the OMB (Jack Lew). OMB claims the order came from lawyers at the Justice Department (Eric Holder).

    Someone's head should roll on this one. I don't care if it's Hagel, Lew or Holder. This is complete political BS. And it's just not right.

    Big thanks and gratitude to the Fisher House Foundation for correcting this wrong!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Jet View Post
    I normally don't like to delve into politics much, peoples minds are usually made up one way or the other, so any discussion quickly becomes useless.

    But ...
    Everything before the but in a sentence is meaningless

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
    Everything before the but in a sentence is meaningless
    and? Do you have anything else to add?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
    Everything before the but in a sentence is meaningless
    lol, how many corporate team building exercises have you been to?... you're not actually starting to believe that junk, are you?

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    I believe a charity the "Fisher house" will pick up the tab and be reimbursed when the deal is finally cut.

    Lots of people are being hurt financially in this crises. Lots of folks are using their Visa cards to pay their bills.

    It is very sad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axil View Post
    lol, how many corporate team building exercises have you been to?... you're not actually starting to believe that junk, are you?
    It was an elementary school grammar lesson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
    It was an elementary school grammar lesson.
    Really? That's terrible. I wouldn't expect that taught at school, though i shouldn't be surprised. "but" is very useful conjunction, provides context and insight, and is not a form of negation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Jet View Post
    I normally don't like to delve into politics much, peoples minds are usually made up one way or the other, so any discussion quickly becomes useless.

    But this latest story about the military deaths, and our government shutdown has me completely disgusted.

    I get that both sides want to politicize the shutdown to their own benefit, but this is way over the line, and so very wrong.

    So 26 soldiers have died since the shutdown, 4 of which were on active duty in Afghanistan until they we killed last week by a roadside bomb. I'm watching the news, and apparently, these 4 soldiers who died last weekend, are being used as political pawns. Under usual circumstances, the government pays for their burial, as well as plane fare for the families to either claim their bodies at Dover, or wherever they are being hospitalized on life support. The government also gives the families 100,000 as a death gratuity.

    It's reported that the House, Senate and the President signed off on a bill, before the shutdown, to continue these benefits in the event of a shutdown.

    But somewhere, someone decided to not allow this. Chuck Hagel, of the Pentagon, says his hands are tied, and he claims he got the orders from the OMB (Jack Lew). OMB claims the order came from lawyers at the Justice Department (Eric Holder).

    Someone's head should roll on this one. I don't care if it's Hagel, Lew or Holder. This is complete political BS. And it's just not right.

    Big thanks and gratitude to the Fisher House Foundation for correcting this wrong!

    Be careful with that attitude of yours: the NSA has already seen this and is ordering an IRS audit for you as I type this. Good luck!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
    Everything before the but in a sentence is meaningless
    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
    It was an elementary school grammar lesson.
    Given the subject and the righteous message of the OP regarding the betrayal of our soldiers and Vets, it seems a little odd you chose this thread for your grammar lesson. But whatever.



    -

  10. #10
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    I heard that Obama could have taken care of this via executive order. Maybe one of our resident Constitutional scholars can clarify this.

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    Some thoughts:

    1. 26 American Soldiers have died, in 9 days? And there has been no news coverage of these deaths at all? I stand amazed at the differences in coverage in the deaths under Bush vs. the deaths under Obama, especially given far more have died under Obama than did Bush.

    2. No one will lose any money over this in the long term. Every penny will be paid, as it always is after a shutdown. What it is in an inconvenience during a tough time.

    3. The President, who controls both the administrative branch and the millitary as CiC, could correct this with a sign of her pen alone, via Executive Action, to classify these costs as "essential". For a President who has changed or ignored a wide variety of laws by his own person fiat, any claim that he couldn't fix this is naive at best. He doesn't want to fix it, because it can be used for political purposes (like everything else). Even if the Law says he can't, he could, as he's done on a number of issues in his Presidency.

    4. With all that said, I don't support the shutdown. IMO this is not a proper course to fight passed legislation you disagree with except in the most dire of circumstances. This is not that, no matter how little I like Collectivist Healthcare a la the ACA.

    Elections have consequences. If you want rid of the ACA, convince the people, and get elected, then defeat it via legislation. Defunding by one branch is a dangerous tactic I do not want to see widespread traction. Today's defunding of the ACA by (R) is yesterdays attempted defunding of the Iraq War by (D) and tomorrows defunding of beloved (R) laws X, Y and Z. Not what we want.

    P.S. Obama and Co. will negotiate with the Taliban, AQ, Muslim Brotherhood, Syria, Iran, Russia and China. But when it comes to the ACA, he's taken the Bush "with us or against us, no negotiation" tact. Amazing how little THIS is being hammered by the media too.

    Obama = G.W. Bush's third term. Pure and simple, on almost every issue. Yet the media has painted Obama as the greatest President in History. So sad.
    Last edited by Churchill; 10-10-2013 at 10:20 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
    Everything before the but in a sentence is meaningless

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Jet View Post
    and? Do you have anything else to add?
    When the Obama administration pulls this kind of nonsense, this is what their sheeple do. Deflect. Their marching orders are to avoid the real conversation at all costs.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    Some thoughts:

    1. 26 American Soldiers have died, in 9 days? And there has been no news coverage of these deaths at all? I stand amazed at the differences in coverage in the deaths under Bush vs. the deaths under Obama, especially given far more have died under Obama than did Bush.

    2. No one will lose any money over this in the long term. Every penny will be paid, as it always is after a shutdown. What it is in an inconvenience during a tough time.

    3. The President, who controls both the administrative branch and the millitary as CiC, could correct this with a sign of her pen alone, via Executive Action, to classify these costs as "essential". For a President who has changed or ignored a wide variety of laws by his own person fiat, any claim that he couldn't fix this is naive at best. He doesn't want to fix it, because it can be used for political purposes (like everything else). Even if the Law says he can't, he could, as he's done on a number of issues in his Presidency.

    4. With all that said, I don't support the shutdown. IMO this is not a proper course to fight passed legislation you disagree with except in the most dire of circumstances. This is not that, no matter how little I like Collectivist Healthcare a la the ACA.

    Elections have consequences. If you want rid of the ACA, convince the people, and get elected, then defeat it via legislation. Defunding by one branch is a dangerous tactic I do not want to see widespread traction. Today's defunding of the ACA by (R) is yesterdays attempted defunding of the Iraq War by (D) and tomorrows defunding of beloved (R) laws X, Y and Z. Not what we want.

    P.S. Obama and Co. will negotiate with the Taliban, AQ, Muslim Brotherhood, Syria, Iran, Russia and China. But when it comes to the ACA, he's taken the Bush "with us or against us, no negotiation" tact. Amazing how little THIS is being hammered by the media too.

    Obama = G.W. Bush's third term. Pure and simple, on almost every issue. Yet the media has painted Obama as the greatest President in History. So sad.
    As a libertarian I don't see a big issue with the shut down. If this could possibly slow down the growth of government and make both sides think twice before enacting expensive and worthless BS like the ACA then so be it. Our government is out of control. The voters will vote to get more in their pockets any chance they can without ever looking into the true costs because if they aren't paying for it what do they care.

    What this country needs is someone with some sense to hit the brakes. This could be the start.

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    The administration pulled the same thing when the sequester kicked in. Remember Obama's speeches about teachers being fired and airplanes falling from the sky do to air traffic controller cuts. None of it ever happened of course because it was outright lies. Now they choose to direct cuts to areas that are very public and egregious for their slimy political purposes. They are pulling the same thing now shutting down open air monuments and sending police to erect barricades. It is all propaganda designed to generate outrage from low information citizens reinforced by a complicit media that refuses to even state the actual issue being debated. Most media figures continue to say that the GOP's offer was to defund Obamacare when in actuality we are shut down over the refusal of the administration to give individuals a one year pass on tax penalties from not complying with the mandate even though big business already got that one year exemption.

    Personally I don't have any dogs in this fight. I don't get why its worth this big hullabaloo. It's not like they are stopping Obamacare anyway and I'm not sure why the concept that folks that don't comply with the mandate have to pay a small fee on their taxes (likely under $100) is worth all this hassle. Screw em, the vast majority of the uninsured are young people that choose to forego insurance because it isn't worth the price plus they probably voted for Obama anyway so they can pat their fines. Most won't sign up for insurance even with the mandate bacause they would be foolish to do so. It's better to pay a couple of hundred dollars a year in extra taxes then $5000-$7000 a year for insurance you will never get use out of. Plus since the law allows people to sign up for insurance AFTER they get sick the smart money will pay the fines, save 5-7K a year then buy insurance after they get sick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    Elections have consequences. If you want rid of the ACA, convince the people, and get elected, then defeat it via legislation.
    That is what happened. The House Reps ran on stopping the ACA, won and now they have power over the purse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    When the Obama administration pulls this kind of nonsense, this is what their sheeple do. Deflect. Their marching orders are to avoid the real conversation at all costs.
    I object to your use of "sheeple".


    How about "mindless hell-spawned Sons of Dooshbaggery"?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    That is what happened. The House Reps ran on stopping the ACA, won and now they have power over the purse.
    Not quite.

    They have the power to start the appropriations process, and the power to obstruct any budget from being passed. Thats not quite the proverbial (and overstated) "power of the pursestrings" the talking heads claim.

    And more than 50% of the House Reps did not, in fact, "run on stopping the ACA". They ran as more traditional (R) members.

    Lets be clear, (R) isn't stopping the ACA, like it or not. Any intelligent conversation should and will start from there, because there is no outcome possible where the ACA goes away as a result of this little protest.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    As a libertarian I don't see a big issue with the shut down. If this could possibly slow down the growth of government and make both sides think twice before enacting expensive and worthless BS like the ACA then so be it. Our government is out of control. The voters will vote to get more in their pockets any chance they can without ever looking into the true costs because if they aren't paying for it what do they care.

    What this country needs is someone with some sense to hit the brakes. This could be the start.
    Sorry, but this is pure fantasy.

    At best, this will be a temporary setback for the spenders on both sides. It should be obvious through this process that the sensible ones who truly seek to at least slow things down will always be demonized and shouted down as "fringe" or even "terrorists".

    If anything, when the dust settles and some kind of agreement is reached, it will be used to justify the acceleration of spending. This shutdown gives the Administration an out when it comes to their failures, particularly with the anemic recovery. Now the facts will be clouded by their claims that this served as a setback to what would have been something special. And the sheep will gobble it up.

    It's time to accept that we're past the point of no return. Things are not going to get better again, not until they get much, much worse.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    Not quite.

    They have the power to start the appropriations process, and the power to obstruct any budget from being passed. Thats not quite the proverbial (and overstated) "power of the pursestrings" the talking heads claim.

    And more than 50% of the House Reps did not, in fact, "run on stopping the ACA". They ran as more traditional (R) members.

    Lets be clear, (R) isn't stopping the ACA, like it or not. Any intelligent conversation should and will start from there, because there is no outcome possible where the ACA goes away as a result of this little protest.
    Layman's terms my friend. I was referring to those in the Tea Party. That movement was part of what led to the Reps getting the majority back in the House. So that majority was gained b.c of opposition to the ACA.

    I don't think it is stopping either. And gov't is not going to ever get smaller either. We are on a one-way trip. The only thing Congress can do is decide how slow the death will be.

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