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Thread: Adrian Peterson

  1. #21
    Peterson's two-year-old son died on October 11, 2013 at a Sioux Falls, South Dakota, hospital due to injuries sustained during an alleged assault by Joseph Robert Patterson, the boyfriend of the child's mother.
    Broken and split families happen all the time in the U.S., for an endless variety of reasons.

    IMO there are two people responsible.

    1. Joseph Robert Patterson, the abuser/killer.

    2. The child's mother who choose the abuser, put the abuser in a position to abuse, and was the responsible party for the child.

    Adrian Peterson, the biological father, of course bears responsabillity for creating the child, and not being a part of his (very young) life, but he bears no responsabillity for his tragic death.

    I don't disagree with much of whats said in the thread, about broken families and how damaging they are overall. But that does not rise, IMO, to resposabillity for an ex-girfriend/baby-momma's choice of an abusive boyfriend or the boyfriends decision to abuse/kill.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    Broken and split families happen all the time in the U.S., for an endless variety of reasons.

    IMO there are two people responsible.

    1. Joseph Robert Patterson, the abuser/killer.

    2. The child's mother who choose the abuser, put the abuser in a position to abuse, and was the responsible party for the child.

    Adrian Peterson, the biological father, of course bears responsabillity for creating the child, and not being a part of his (very young) life, but he bears no responsabillity for his tragic death.

    I don't disagree with much of whats said in the thread, about broken families and how damaging they are overall. But that does not rise, IMO, to resposabillity for an ex-girfriend/baby-momma's choice of an abusive boyfriend or the boyfriends decision to abuse/kill.
    Putting aside my opinions on AP (which have fallen dramatically), the mother in this situation is completely culpable (of course the boyfriend is as well). Unlike many other single parents, she had a meal ticket in AP. She didn't have to worry about shacking up with whatever dude she could find who would help her financially to raise her kid. She had (or should have) AP supporting the child. But, for whatever reason, she chose to have this guy around her kid. And considering what we've heard about this dude, he was real bad news.

    She didn't commit the assault, but she allowed it to happen. Unless there are factors that we don't know about (which is entirely possible), she may not be criminally culpable, but she played a direct role in this child's death.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by quantum View Post
    you're an old man living in another time.
    lol





    -

  4. #24
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    Hey I've got an idea - I just heard about something truly terrible - lets start blaming everybody and everything we can!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    Hey I've got an idea - I just heard about something truly terrible - lets start blaming everybody and everything we can!
    I'm pretty sure the real problem is that we don't have common sense fist control laws in this country.

  6. #26
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    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    He's still a little young to get it. No worries, you sound like a good father. Little threat of him never getting it like the liberals of America
    Child gets beaten to death - "how can I make this about liberals?"

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    ...



    Child gets beaten to death - "how can I make this about liberals?"
    That's right it's the individual, not society.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    ...



    Child gets beaten to death - "how can I make this about liberals?"
    Isn't that how it works? "Never let a tragedy go to waste"?

    Of course I'm sure its fine when its Sandy Hook etc. Give me a break.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    Isn't that how it works? "Never let a tragedy go to waste"?

    Of course I'm sure its fine when its Sandy Hook etc. Give me a break.
    How many children each year die from neglect/abuse in this country - and how does one solve that problem btw?

    How many people die of gun violence - and how does one solve that problem?

    Thirty times more people die from guns each year. And it's not like some other country has solved the problem of child abuse, whereas many countries have virtually solved the problem of gun violence through gun control.

    Furthermore, it's not like anyone in this thread was putting forth solutions, rather they were making judgments about the father, the mother, the AA community, NFL players blah blah blah.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    Thirty times more people die from guns (than from physical abuse/assault) each year.
    Source please.

    Also "die from" would include suicide, which if making a apples-to-apples comparison should be excluded.

    Physical Abuse/Assault homicides vs. gun homicides would be an accurate and relevant comparison.

    I would venture guns kill a moderate amount more people than assault, but that assault/abuse is vastly more common a crime than shootings.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    How many children each year die from neglect/abuse in this country - and how does one solve that problem btw?

    How many people die of gun violence - and how does one solve that problem?

    Thirty times more people die from guns each year. And it's not like some other country has solved the problem of child abuse, whereas many countries have virtually solved the problem of gun violence through gun control.

    Furthermore, it's not like anyone in this thread was putting forth solutions, rather they were making judgments about the father, the mother, the AA community, NFL players blah blah blah.
    It's becoming increasingly clear to me that you have a child-like understanding of the world

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    It's becoming increasingly clear to me that you have a child-like understanding of the world
    Sure, that might be true - if it is though, then you have a fetus' understanding of the world. : )

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    Source please.

    Also "die from" would include suicide, which if making a apples-to-apples comparison should be excluded.

    Physical Abuse/Assault homicides vs. gun homicides would be an accurate and relevant comparison.

    I would venture guns kill a moderate amount more people than assault, but that assault/abuse is vastly more common a crime than shootings.
    http://www.nationalchildrensalliance...onalStatistics

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...s-by-2015.html

    30,000 gun deaths to about 1500 child abuse/neglect deaths. If you factor in your parameters, strictly physical abuse deaths (15%) and excluding suicides (61% of gun deaths), then you have about 12000 versus 225, which is 53.3333333 x more deaths.

    But again, it's about do that many people need to die for our second amendment rights to be free? I think not, and I think this because Canada, Australia, Germany, England, Japan etc etc are all free, democratic, market societies just like us - they've just removed the guns.
    Last edited by SafetyBlitz; 10-16-2013 at 10:22 AM.

  14. #34
    [QUOTE=SafetyBlitz;5026945]

    30,000 gun deaths to about 1500 child abuse/neglect deaths.
    Why are you limiting it to child abuse, as opposed to physical assaults? Again, apples to apples, either limit gun murders to children, or expand abuse deaths to all, otherwise you're doing a classic "cook the books" numbers manipulation to overstate an argument.

    But again, it's about do that many people need to die for our second amendment rights to be free?
    Your logic is IMO faulty. You equate gun rights with "must die" murders, when the two are not one and the same.

    One could, if using as misguided logic as your own, say that socioeconomicly and lower-educated people should not have freedom at all, because they engage in almost all of the gun-related non-suicide killings in the United States today.

    Revoking freedoms to protect a tiny subsection is IMO never the right or moral choice.

    Of course, given the close ties of belief between progressiveism and communism/collectivism, I would never expect a progressive to see that way. To a communist, it's always about the supposed greater good, never about the rights of an individual.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    http://www.nationalchildrensalliance...onalStatistics

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...s-by-2015.html

    30,000 gun deaths to about 1500 child abuse/neglect deaths. If you factor in your parameters, strictly physical abuse deaths (15%) and excluding suicides (61% of gun deaths), then you have about 12000 versus 225, which is 53.3333333 x more deaths.

    But again, it's about do that many people need to die for our second amendment rights to be free? I think not, and I think this because Canada, Australia, Germany, England, Japan etc etc are all free, democratic, market societies just like us - they've just removed the guns.
    In 2011 there were 32,367 motor vehicle deaths in the United States. Compared to your statistic of 12,000 non-suicide gun deaths then we need to get rid of cars, right? How many of your gun deaths were by LEGAL guns because that is all gun restriction will curtail.

  16. #36
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    Less guns = fewer homicides?

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2...s-more-murders

    The U.S. Has More Guns, But Russia Has More Murders

    The U.S. and Russia have been taking lots of jabs at each other.

    Russian President Vladimir Putin criticized President Obama's plan for a military strike in Syria, and the Russian leader then denounced American "exceptionalism" in a biting op-ed in The New York Times.

    Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., fired back Thursday with his own op-ed in the Russian paper Pravda, entitled, "Russia Deserves Better Than Putin."

    Even Monday's shooting at the Navy Yard in Washington, in which a gunmen killed 12 people, has become part of the feud.

    Alexei Pushkov, the chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee in Russia's parliament, used the shooting to mock the United States as it was happening.

    "A new shootout at Navy headquarters in Washington a lone gunman and seven corpses. Nobody's even surprised anymore. A clear confirmation of American exceptionalism," Puskoy tweeted.

    But while Pushkov sneers at U.S. gun laws, how do the stats look in Russia?

    According to Gunpolicy.org, Russians have far fewer guns than Americans and far more homicides.

    There are fewer than 13 million firearms in circulation in Russia, compared with an estimated 300 million in the United States. That works out to about 9 guns per 100 people in Russia and closed to 100 guns per 100 people in America.

    The most recent homicide statistics for Russia show that there were 21,603 killings in 2009.

    According to the FBI, the United States had 13,636 homicides in 2009 with a population that is more than twice as large. More than 80 percent of those killings were gun-related.


    It's difficult to make a direct comparison of gun homicides in the two countries because Russia doesn't break down its murder statistics.

    Russian Gun Laws

    Russia has tough gun laws on the books. It's illegal for Russian citizens to own automatic and semi-automatic guns. It's possible to apply for a handgun or shotgun license, though citizens are required to provide reasons such as hunting or target shooting.

    Applicants face strict background checks, including criminal history, a full psychological evaluation and a medical exam. They must pass a test on firearm laws and safety.

    Each weapon is then registered by the police during a home visit. Police take bullet patterns, test bullets and cartridges so bullets can be matched if the gun is used in a crime. A license lasts five years, after which applicants must go through the whole process again.

    In spite of these laws, the country does have periodic mass shootings by people thought to be mentally ill.

    Last November, after a five-day drinking binge, 30-year-old lawyer Dmitry Vinogradov posted a message online referring to humanity as "compost."

    Shortly after, he walked into the Moscow pharmaceutical company where he worked and opened fire, killing six colleagues and critically injuring another. He was jailed for life last week.

    Move To Ease Gun Laws

    The Right to Bear Arms, a Moscow-based organization that has more than 5,000 members, is trying to make guns more easily available in Russia.

    "Our citizens are deprived of normal tools of self-defense, and that plays an important role in public safety," Maria Butina, the group's 24-year-old founder, told The Moscow News.

    But she has a long way to go in convincing the public. A poll by the Levada Center in 2011 showed that 80 percent of Russians are opposed to easing existing gun laws.

  17. #37
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    +1 Exactly

    Not faulty logic, a complete lack of it.

    Doesn't even scratch the surface of the damaging effects of fatherless homes. We already know much of the gun crime we have comes from folks with unstability around them, including this major root cause.

    Why are you limiting it to child abuse, as opposed to physical assaults? Again, apples to apples, either limit gun murders to children, or expand abuse deaths to all, otherwise you're doing a classic "cook the books" numbers manipulation to overstate an argument.



    Your logic is IMO faulty. You equate gun rights with "must die" murders, when the two are not one and the same.

    One could, if using as misguided logic as your own, say that socioeconomicly and lower-educated people should not have freedom at all, because they engage in almost all of the gun-related non-suicide killings in the United States today.

    Revoking freedoms to protect a tiny subsection is IMO never the right or moral choice.

    Of course, given the close ties of belief between progressiveism and communism/collectivism, I would never expect a progressive to see that way. To a communist, it's always about the supposed greater good, never about the rights of an individual.[/QUOTE]

    Sorry for the format issues. Phone wackout.
    Last edited by JetPotato; 10-17-2013 at 09:26 AM.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post

    Why are you limiting it to child abuse, as opposed to physical assaults? Again, apples to apples, either limit gun murders to children, or expand abuse deaths to all, otherwise you're doing a classic "cook the books" numbers manipulation to overstate an argument.



    Your logic is IMO faulty. You equate gun rights with "must die" murders, when the two are not one and the same.

    One could, if using as misguided logic as your own, say that socioeconomicly and lower-educated people should not have freedom at all, because they engage in almost all of the gun-related non-suicide killings in the United States today.

    Revoking freedoms to protect a tiny subsection is IMO never the right or moral choice.

    Of course, given the close ties of belief between progressiveism and communism/collectivism, I would never expect a progressive to see that way. To a communist, it's always about the supposed greater good, never about the rights of an individual.
    I honestly don't know what the f*** you're talking about here.

    Potato brought up Sandy Hook in response to me criticizing the posters here for making Adrian Peterson's sons death "the mother's fault, or AP's fault or the AA community's fault", in an effort to basically say "all liberals use tragedy to get more government control" - because that's the maturity of JetPotato.

    In response, I posted how many people die a year from gunshots as opposed to children die of abuse - making the point that the gun debate after sandy hook, aurora, columbine, the DC shootings etc - are not comparable to this situation. Those (gun control) arguments are legitimate to bring up after a mass shooting, in my opinion, because the degree to which they happen here is far, far greater then the degree to which they happen in any other western democracy in the world. Can the same be said for child abuse deaths? I doubt it.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    I honestly don't know what the f*** you're talking about here.
    Yes, that's obvious

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz View Post
    ... the degree to which they happen here is far, far greater then the degree to which they happen in any other western democracy in the world.
    Nice filter, allowing one to ignore Russia, where strict gun control exists, as do many, many more murders than in the US. But hey, it "worked" in Australia.

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