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Thread: Busts and Non-Busts

  1. #1
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    Busts and Non-Busts

    I like a hand full but not too big =)

    Seriously, as a fan I've always felt that i need to see 2 full seasons of underperforming to call a player a bust and 3 full years of excellent play to call a player great. This league has produced a ton of 1 or 2 year wonders. If you string together 3 excellent years you take the next step... like #96 is currently doing.

    8 games into #27's career he is doing about as well as is possible considering what a CB is asked to do in this defense, especially since he missed OTA's. If he was killing it right now, this early in his career, in this defense... everyone would be saying he should have been the #1 overall pick. It's impossible to call ANY player a bust after 8 games.

    We have 5 starting players from this draft as of week 8. How often does that happen? All 5 have struggled and had normal growing pains as rookies, but they are also contributing. 5 rookie starters who will most likely start next year as well is huge.

    As for Mr. Hill, he is 1.5 seasons into his career and looks scared on the field. Thats the only way I can explain it. He looks like the game is too big for him. HOWEVER, has he had another threat at WR lined up on the opposite side of the field from him? Has he had an elite QB throwing him balls? With a significant threat at WR, TE and Geno in year 2 we may see Hill emerge as a #1 guy in 2014. That being said it's not looking good so far.

    Idzik should be executive of the year in the NFL if we are 8-8 or better considering what he walked in to. Period.

  2. #2
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    Sanchez is a bust.
    Kyle Wilson is a bust.
    Stephen Hill is not quite a bust yet, but second rounders are hard to consider busts.
    If you are looking towards higher profile recent busts: Aaron Maybin, Aaron Curry, Marcel Dareus, Jonathan Baldwin, those are REALLY busts.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMarsico9 View Post
    If you are looking towards higher profile recent busts: Aaron Maybin, Aaron Curry, Marcel Dareus, Jonathan Baldwin, those are REALLY busts.
    No.

  4. #4
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    First you have to define what is or isn't a bust.

    Kyle Wilson should be better than what he is for his draft #, but he's a serviceable player. Same with Hill. Richardson is a home run. As was Wilk. Couples - shows signs. Again, he's a guy playing a new position and has been hurt.

    Milner - WAY too early to decide. CB generally struggle out the gate. I personally hate picking them early, since they are then forced to play. Give him another season to figure it out.

    Also, and to me this is a big deal - we call players busts when they are drafted high but asked to play a different position. That takes time. And sometimes uys just can't make the switch, or like Maybin don't have the body to make the leap from college to pro.

    JMHO

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    Quote Originally Posted by AFCEastFan View Post
    No.
    You're probably right. Expectations for both him and Fairley were probably unfair. At least mine were. Neither is as good as Suh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMarsico9 View Post
    You're probably right. Expectations for both him and Fairley were probably unfair. At least mine were. Neither is as good as Suh.
    Agreed. Dareus in particular has the added burden of having been selected immediately ahead of some players who have quickly proven to be true studs, on both offense and defense.

    I guess I would classify Dareus as a "disappointment" so far rather than a "bust". He's been serviceable at worst, solid at best, but Bills fans are no doubt annoyed that their team passed on the likes of Green, Peterson and Watt.

  7. #7
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    Why is it whenever we get hosed in a loss everybody goes after our draft picks? We've never been known to have a great personnel department
    and look at our last GM. Its like pouring gasoline on a bum fire.

  8. #8
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    It's clear to me that Hill has a long way to go. However, I have noticed that whenever Hill has had a healthy Holmes in the same game, he's generally been productive. Of course Holmes has been injured often during these last 2 years, but the fact remains: whenever a bonafide NFL receiver who can play the outside has suited up across Hill, Hill has produced:

    Holmes played during Hill's insane rookie debut against Buffalo last season. He was up and down most of the rest of the year, but Holmes was out for the year after game 4.

    Again this season, Hill and Holmes have both overlapped only 3 times. Hill had monster numbers in 2 of them, and still had 6 receptions in the other.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFCEastFan View Post
    Agreed. Dareus in particular has the added burden of having been selected immediately ahead of some players who have quickly proven to be true studs, on both offense and defense.

    I guess I would classify Dareus as a "disappointment" so far rather than a "bust". He's been serviceable at worst, solid at best, but Bills fans are no doubt annoyed that their team passed on the likes of Green, Peterson and Watt.
    A lot of Alabama products haven't lived up to their potential. McClain, Richardson, Kareem Jackson and Ingram come to mind (Julio Jones is a beast though). Hopefully Milliner breaks the trend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMagicRat View Post
    A lot of Alabama products haven't lived up to their potential. McClain, Richardson, Kareem Jackson and Ingram come to mind (Julio Jones is a beast though). Hopefully Milliner breaks the trend.
    Barron, Hightower and Julio Jones are the 3 top players to come out recently, most of the others have been disappointments, I havn't seen much of Warmack though, I think he's going to be a good player

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    Quote Originally Posted by SAM View Post
    Barron, Hightower and Julio Jones are the 3 top players to come out recently, most of the others have been disappointments, I havn't seen much of Warmack though, I think he's going to be a good player
    I have heard mixed reviews about Barron but you're right about Hightower, he's been solid. Right now, Warmack might have helped the Jets a lot.

  12. #12
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    ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk
    Steelers bench first-rounder Jarvis Jones http://wp.me/p14QSB-9jLJ


    Milliner isnt the only first round rookie having issues. Although there seemed to be more people who had doubts about Jones than Milliner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMagicRat View Post
    I have heard mixed reviews about Barron but you're right about Hightower, he's been solid. Right now, Warmack might have helped the Jets a lot.
    Fluker is also having a decent rookie season with San Diego.

    I think Alabama RBs get over rated a bit due to the fact that they run behind the best O lines in college football. Always seems Bama has at 3 -4 guys on their O line that are legit NFL prospects.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMarsico9 View Post
    Sanchez is a bust.
    Kyle Wilson is a bust.
    Stephen Hill is not quite a bust yet, but second rounders are hard to consider busts.
    If you are looking towards higher profile recent busts: Aaron Maybin, Aaron Curry, Marcel Dareus, Jonathan Baldwin, those are REALLY busts.
    I would not call wilson a bust i dont think he is great but he is a productive player and covers the slot well

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe810 View Post
    I would not call wilson a bust i dont think he is great but he is a productive player and covers the slot well
    Walls is better.

    Jarvis Jones was a one year starter and had medical red flags.

    There's no real correlation regarding the time it takes for a "light to go on" for a CB.

    Look at the gold standard of CB development, which we should all be accustomed to: Revis.

    When he came up he was solid, but less in coverage and supported the run and interior defense much more than he did now (granted the scheme changed in '09 and in '08 he was thrust in much more of a coverage specialist role) but it's something to be aware of. Corner is arguably the single more complicated position to play on defense. Give Milliner at least 16 games before you start eviscerating the guy.
    Last edited by PMarsico9; 10-29-2013 at 04:10 PM.

  16. #16
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    Aside from Mo and Richardson, our first round picks in the rex ryan era have been terrible. Sanchez, Wilson, Coples, Milliner. Completely neglecting the offense. It's been ugly.

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=PMarsico9;5044367]Walls is better.

    thats up for debate. Walls is playing well but better than wilson not sure about that. Covering the slot is a tough job. Its a matchup nightmare just ask arrington from the pats kerley tourched the pats untill they moved coles on him. btw Stevie Johnson always had good days againts Revis sometimes its just a physical thing one guy getting out matched by another.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamaicanJetFan View Post
    It's clear to me that Hill has a long way to go. However, I have noticed that whenever Hill has had a healthy Holmes in the same game, he's generally been productive. Of course Holmes has been injured often during these last 2 years, but the fact remains: whenever a bonafide NFL receiver who can play the outside has suited up across Hill, Hill has produced:

    Holmes played during Hill's insane rookie debut against Buffalo last season. He was up and down most of the rest of the year, but Holmes was out for the year after game 4.

    Again this season, Hill and Holmes have both overlapped only 3 times. Hill had monster numbers in 2 of them, and still had 6 receptions in the other.
    Hill has never had a "monster" game. 100 yds and a TD is a very nice game but not exactly crazy.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by adb280z View Post
    Hill has never had a "monster" game. 100 yds and a TD is a very nice game but not exactly crazy.
    Hills a solid 3 & nothing more.
    He's still to young & inexperienced to draw every teams best CB.
    When we get a solid #1 WR in here & a 2nd or 3rd corner has to deal with him, with Kerley in the Slot & a better TE, he'll start to gain some confidence back.
    3rd year should be a charm for Stephen. Especially working with the same QB for 1 full year & training camp in 2014.
    I think Hill could be a little nightmarish next year vs teams with no corner depth.
    Hey, look at the bright side, he won't be able to demand a crazy contract so we might be able to have a WR still learning with an upward curve at a very reasonable price while we get our studs in the next 2 drafts.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-E-T-S-Jets View Post
    I like a hand full but not too big =)

    Seriously, as a fan I've always felt that i need to see 2 full seasons of underperforming to call a player a bust and 3 full years of excellent play to call a player great. This league has produced a ton of 1 or 2 year wonders. If you string together 3 excellent years you take the next step... like #96 is currently doing.

    8 games into #27's career he is doing about as well as is possible considering what a CB is asked to do in this defense, especially since he missed OTA's. If he was killing it right now, this early in his career, in this defense... everyone would be saying he should have been the #1 overall pick. It's impossible to call ANY player a bust after 8 games.

    We have 5 starting players from this draft as of week 8. How often does that happen? All 5 have struggled and had normal growing pains as rookies, but they are also contributing. 5 rookie starters who will most likely start next year as well is huge.

    As for Mr. Hill, he is 1.5 seasons into his career and looks scared on the field. Thats the only way I can explain it. He looks like the game is too big for him. HOWEVER, has he had another threat at WR lined up on the opposite side of the field from him? Has he had an elite QB throwing him balls? With a significant threat at WR, TE and Geno in year 2 we may see Hill emerge as a #1 guy in 2014. That being said it's not looking good so far.

    Idzik should be executive of the year in the NFL if we are 8-8 or better considering what he walked in to. Period.
    I agree with you on Milliner. However, Hill emerging as a #1 guy? No chance in hell. Will he be an effective deep threat in his career? I think so. And that's a useful thing to have on the roster.

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