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Thread: Interesting article on position battles

  1. #1

    Interesting article on position battles

    Suprisingly insightful article from Cimini, who is unfortunately is one of the better options we have as a beat writer... yea let that sink in for a moment. Anyway I have quoted the article so that people don't have to click the link if they don't want to. It's available on ESPN New York for anyone who wants to read the actual article.

    This is for all the stat geeks out there -- our bye week respite from the usual morning offering.

    The NFL compiles a stat sheet that shows how teams perform when specific players are on and off the field, breaking it down by average yards per pass attempt and average yards per rushing attempt. I think this is a great way to evaluate a player's true value to the team. I've compiled a few for the New York Jets, highlighting positional battles and key storylines. For example:

    OFFENSE

    Wide receiver Santonio Holmes

    Average pass play with him: 6.33 yards.

    Average without him: 5.79.

    The skinny: This puts to rest the theory the Jets are better on offense without Holmes.

    Offensive linemen: Brian Winters versus Vladimir Ducasse

    Average running play with Winters: 4.32

    Average running play with Ducasse: 3.82

    The skinny: Winters, a rookie, has experieced plenty of hiccups, but he still has his predecessor beat.

    Tight ends: Kellen Winslow versus Jeff Cumberland

    Average pass play with Winslow: 5.76

    Average pass play with Cumberland: 4.94

    The skinny: The Jets better hope that Winslow, back from his PED suspension, is off his "allergy" medication.

    Running backs: Chris Ivory versus Bilal Powell

    Average running play with Ivory: 4.01

    Average running play with Powell: 3.98

    The skinny: Pretty much what you expected here.

    DEFENSE

    Safeties: Antonio Allen versus Jaiquawn Jarrett

    Average pass play with Allen: 6.38

    Average pass play with Jarrett: 4.90

    The skinny: This surprises me -- a lot.

    Defensive lineman Damon Harrison

    Average running play with Harrison: 2.72

    Average without him: 3.21

    The skinny: Big Snacks is a big reason why the Jets have the No. 1 run defense.

    Cornerbacks Dee Milliner versus Darrin Walls

    Average pass play with Milliner: 5.85

    Average pass play with Walls: 6.89

    The skinny: Now we know why Rex Ryan keeps going back to Milliner.

    Linebacker Antwan Barnes

    Average pass play with him: 5.41

    Average without him: 6.22

    The skinny: His season-ending knee injury has been more costly than people realize.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMo View Post
    Suprisingly insightful article from Cimini, who is unfortunately is one of the better options we have as a beat writer... yea let that sink in for a moment. Anyway I have quoted the article so that people don't have to click the link if they don't want to. It's available on ESPN New York for anyone who wants to read the actual article.
    Actually a really good quick article.

    Cimini has been much better for about 6 months now.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by chirorob View Post
    Actually a really good quick article.

    Cimini has been much better for about 6 months now.
    Yea I am just not sure whether he got better because he jumped on the bandwagon or whether he actually thought the team was getting the short end of the stick. I think he certainly has been better since probably about preseason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chirorob View Post
    Actually a really good quick article.

    Cimini has been much better for about 6 months now.
    Agreed, he has been better of late. I think he saw what a train wreck Manish has become and had a look in the mirror moment and realized that he is better off just writing about facts and not trying to sensationalize everything to create or fabricate controversy.

  5. #5
    Pretty limited stats.

    Holmes 13 yards, 51 yards, 25 yards (5 catches) Then his one career game outlier of 154 yards on 5 catches.

  6. #6
    Think best point of article is loss of Barnes. Huge loss. Will spend another off-season looking for speed edge rusher.

  7. #7
    Cimini is really jumping to conclusions on a lot of these. Correlation does not equal causation.

  8. #8
    Good article, interesting to look at the numbers. But it's only useful as long as you keep in mind its limits. This isn't adjusted by opponent or game situation.

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    Interesting info but you have to take some of These stats with a grain of salt... of course the rushing stats are better against the Jets when Snacks isn't in there because we Play a lot of snaps without a nose tackle at all. Of course we would give up more then. As mentioned above, the Holmes stats are greatly aided by the Buffalo game.

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    Didn't click his link ... I would like to know team comparisons & have a minimum of plays in order to value those #'s a little more.

    Better than most of his stuff tho

  11. #11
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    Allen is much better than Jarrett, even though the stats show differently.

    Barnes was a huge loss for us.

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    Yes, this surprising
    Average pass play with Allen: 6.38

    Average pass play with Jarrett: 4.90

    The skinny: This surprises me -- a lot.



    Linebacker Antwan Barnes

    Average pass play with him: 5.41

    Average without him: 6.22

    The skinny: His season-ending knee injury has been more costly than people realize.
    But loss of Barnes is not surprising, I think most realize it - it was really felt in the Bengals game, I think

  13. #13
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    Those stats are near meaningless as there are too many variables that are not considered. I'd rather go by the EYE test and evaluate what I see in the players.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    Agreed, he has been better of late. I think he saw what a train wreck Manish has become and had a look in the mirror moment and realized that he is better off just writing about facts and not trying to sensationalize everything to create or fabricate controversy.
    not working for NYDN probably makes a big difference....by the way Cimini provides a lot of good analysis,I make a point of checking out his Sunday Notes every week which is excellent and also he has some very good post game analysis as well.He has been in my view the best nd most insightful beat writer for a long time

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by section314 View Post
    Will spend another off-season looking for speed edge rusher.

    The 9th offseason in a row.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Redlichtie View Post
    He has been in my view the best nd most insightful beat writer for a long time
    Of course he has. People who understand that the media covering the team is supposed to be objective will appreciate Cimini. People who expect the media to be fans will not.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Toooon View Post
    Of course he has. People who understand that the media covering the team is supposed to be objective will appreciate Cimini. People who expect the media to be fans will not.
    Yep,you get it Al

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