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Thread: Big nickel 4-2-5

  1. #1

    Big nickel 4-2-5

    One thing we know about Rex is that on defense, he knows how to put his players in a position to succeed. I think we're going to start seeing a lot more 3 safety looks as our base defense with the signing of Ed reed.

    D line: Wilkerson, Harrison, Richardson, coples(olb)
    Linebackers: Harris, Davis
    Ss - Landry in the box near los
    Sub safety Allen - in shallow coverage
    Fs reed- deep zone

    The size of our d linemen (all over 300lbs, except Coples who is a rush lb) will allow us to stuff the run while subbing one of our olbs for another safety who will be intrinsically better in coverage. As Allen / Landry have played up near the line before, they should be comfortable. Allen played some linebacker in college, so basically, I think your gonna see some modified 46 defense looks with a safety lined up next to the olb instead of two olbs next to each other. Rex likes interchangeable parts, adding ed reed allows for a lot more flexibility even on rushing downs, he's not going to be solely a 3rd down player down the road. Don't think he'll be an every down guy but more than a sub. Guy loves in te robber position, excited to see what he can do.
    Last edited by bjetsb; 11-15-2013 at 10:24 AM.

  2. #2
    I'm all for it. It's all about getting your best 11 guys on the field. Antonio Allen is almost like a linebacker so he can be a "hybrid" in the big nickel

  3. #3
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    I can def see this happening come Sunday.....does not hurt that both of the Bills top receivers will not be playing. E.J. Manuel might be in for a real long day. I keep forgetting how many times he was sacked in the first matchup.

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    Definitely need to get 3 safeties on the field - Landry, Allen and Reed. Allen has played really well this year, and he always flies to the ball and makes some very important tackles. With his college background as a LB/S tweener, you don't lose much against the run subtracting a LB and having him play close to the LOS.

    On 3rd downs, I'd go Pace - Richardson - Wilkerson - Coples, Davis, and Landry, Allen, Reed, Cro, Milliner and Wilson.

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    If Allen can mature into a TE-killer, that would be something we've never seen before and incredibly valuable in today's NFL. I'd like to see him stay on the field as much as possible to get the reps.

  6. #6
    I discussed this with a few friends who were not too pleased about Reed cutting into Allen's playing time. While Allen has quickly become one of my favorite Jets, what Reed brings to this team is completely unique, and both need to be on the field at the same time.

    I get that Landry played with Reed and is the anchor of the defensive backfield, but I would love to see the Reed-Allen combo out there. Allen can play SS and come down and stuff the run like a LB can, and he can stay with any TE in the league; I firmly believe that. He may not shut down the best of the best, but he'll definitely limit them, and that's all we can ask for right now from a second yr 7th rounder. Meanwhile, we can play lock up on the outsides, thrown Davis on the Slot/RB, get a fierce pass rush with our front 4, play Harris in the short middle, and have Ed be Ed in the defensive backfield.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenwichjetfan View Post
    I discussed this with a few friends who were not too pleased about Reed cutting into Allen's playing time. While Allen has quickly become one of my favorite Jets, what Reed brings to this team is completely unique, and both need to be on the field at the same time.

    I get that Landry played with Reed and is the anchor of the defensive backfield, but I would love to see the Reed-Allen combo out there. Allen can play SS and come down and stuff the run like a LB can, and he can stay with any TE in the league; I firmly believe that. He may not shut down the best of the best, but he'll definitely limit them, and that's all we can ask for right now from a second yr 7th rounder. Meanwhile, we can play lock up on the outsides, thrown Davis on the Slot/RB, get a fierce pass rush with our front 4, play Harris in the short middle, and have Ed be Ed in the defensive backfield.
    I don't think Landry will leave the field. He is the quarterback on the back end even with Reed coming in. It's gonna be interesting how they manage this because it is not that easy to just insert Reed and not let other Players miss some time.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaming Mo View Post
    I don't think Landry will leave the field. He is the quarterback on the back end even with Reed coming in. It's gonna be interesting how they manage this because it is not that easy to just insert Reed and not let other Players miss some time.
    Yeah, that's the point of this thread...I was positing that it's not going to be Allen losing that much time. I think it's mostly going to be Pace, Josh Bush, and McIntyre. Rex was just saying yesterday how he thinks Allen is going to be a stud safety, he's not going to hamper his development and contrary to some of the idiots, the guys been great in coverage. He covers WRs, TEs, and RBs...to valuable to be off the field that often.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bjetsb View Post
    Yeah, that's the point of this thread...I was positing that it's not going to be Allen losing that much time. I think it's mostly going to be Pace, Josh Bush, and McIntyre. Rex was just saying yesterday how he thinks Allen is going to be a stud safety, he's not going to hamper his development and contrary to some of the idiots, the guys been great in coverage. He covers WRs, TEs, and RBs...to valuable to be off the field that often.
    Absolutely agreed. I think Jarrett and Bush will lose a lot of their snaps and they were in there quite a bit. Our Coaching staff is also looking a lot at matchups and the snap Counts can vary from week to week (I remember Jarrett playing a ton against Atlanta and then almost never seeing the field against Pittsburgh). Reed being on the field or not will also depend on situations - I think when the Jets are leading, the 2 Minute drill or obvious passing situations call for Reed roaming centerfield.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaming Mo View Post
    I don't think Landry will leave the field. He is the quarterback on the back end even with Reed coming in. It's gonna be interesting how they manage this because it is not that easy to just insert Reed and not let other Players miss some time.
    I agree, I don't think so either. My post was more of what I would love to see, not what I think is going to happen. I think the OP's 4-2-5 is more accurate of the type of personnel we'll be employing.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by bjetsb View Post
    One thing we know about Rex is that on defense, he knows how to put his players in a position to succeed. I think we're going to start seeing a lot more 3 safety looks as our base defense with the signing of Ed reed.
    I recall a game against NE (2010 maybe?) where Rex went with 3 safeties and had Eric Smith play in the box for most of the game. It was a very effective defense against the pats that day and I have always wondered why we haven't utilized it more--especially with our OLB troubles in the last few years.

  12. #12
    I would see Allen used near the LOS since be played LB in college and seems like the best run support guy. Running a 4-3 with Allen OLB is interesting especially against a pass happy offense.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by RexRutha View Post
    I recall a game against NE (2010 maybe?) where Rex went with 3 safeties and had Eric Smith play in the box for most of the game. It was a very effective defense against the pats that day and I have always wondered why we haven't utilized it more--especially with our OLB troubles in the last few years.
    Yeah, the main issue when you get into one of those three safety looks is that generally your sacrificing a linebacker or d linemen which can be a detriment against he run. I'm hoping that just because we have three or four guys who have DT stature, we can make up for the lack of size on the back end. Safety has to be big enough to seal the edge in rushing situations, Allen seems like he can.

  14. #14
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    The Problem with three safeties is that we basically admit that we are playing Zone which takes away the often used disguise of man vs Zone coverage. I don't think we want to match any of our safeties against Slot Receivers. Now I would be all for using a bit more Zone (as we already do) and I'm certain Rex will find a way to let all guys get enough snaps, even with three safeties. He has been known for attacking highly potent air attacks with a flood of defensive backs. It worked great against Peyton in the Playoffs and it has worked against Brady aswell as there guys checked to a lot of runs thus taking away their biggest strengths.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaming Mo View Post
    The Problem with three safeties is that we basically admit that we are playing Zone which takes away the often used disguise of man vs Zone coverage. I don't think we want to match any of our safeties against Slot Receivers. Now I would be all for using a bit more Zone (as we already do) and I'm certain Rex will find a way to let all guys get enough snaps, even with three safeties. He has been known for attacking highly potent air attacks with a flood of defensive backs. It worked great against Peyton in the Playoffs and it has worked against Brady aswell as there guys checked to a lot of runs thus taking away their biggest strengths.
    coverage schemes can be heterogeneous - and RR does employ that. one side of the field doesn't have to be the same as others...some players can be in 0, or 1 coverage while others in different zones etc

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaming Mo View Post
    The Problem with three safeties is that we basically admit that we are playing Zone which takes away the often used disguise of man vs Zone coverage. I don't think we want to match any of our safeties against Slot Receivers. Now I would be all for using a bit more Zone (as we already do) and I'm certain Rex will find a way to let all guys get enough snaps, even with three safeties. He has been known for attacking highly potent air attacks with a flood of defensive backs. It worked great against Peyton in the Playoffs and it has worked against Brady aswell as there guys checked to a lot of runs thus taking away their biggest strengths.
    I was referring to a base defense, which typically calls for 2 corners and 2 safeties and then a comibation of 7 linemen/linebackers. Unlike a lot of teams, you'll notice the Jets stay in base even when offenses go into 11 personnel (3 wideouts, a te, and an rb), which is rare. I think the "base" will get phased into this big nickel look, obviously when there are 4 wides or something, they'll get into a smaller nickel or dime package.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
    coverage schemes can be heterogeneous - and RR does employ that. one side of the field doesn't have to be the same as others...some players can be in 0, or 1 coverage while others in different zones etc
    Certainly and there are so many possibilities... in the end all we can say is that we should trust Rex and Ed Reed to figure it out...

  18. #18
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    I'm an educated fan but certainly no expert on exotic formations and packages, but this does sound like a great strategy on D for a few reasons:

    1. The Jets are so good against the run I don't think we lose a lot by going to 2 LBs. The front is stout enough to keep us solid against the run.
    2. Replacing a LB with a S gives us better options to defend the pass and line up against challenging TEs, an area where we've always had trouble

    (A quick digression on point 2 - The Jets gave up lots of yards and some scores to three top TEs, Gronkowski...Tony Gonazlez...and Jimmy Graham. The funny thing is that the Jets won ALL 3 of those games)

    3. I think we still maintain a solid passrush and don't lose much by subbing out a guy like Pace to get the extra S on the field. If Barnes was still healthy I might debate this a little more as I think he needs to be on the field during passing downs, but I think the personnel above with the extra Safety is a good package on 3rd and long as well.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaming Mo View Post
    Certainly and there are so many possibilities... in the end all we can say is that we should trust Rex and Ed Reed to figure it out...
    hell yeah mo!

    btw ur user name has an added meaning now with Mo Wilkerson. Roll w it bro!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenwichjetfan View Post
    I discussed this with a few friends who were not too pleased about Reed cutting into Allen's playing time. While Allen has quickly become one of my favorite Jets, what Reed brings to this team is completely unique, and both need to be on the field at the same time.

    I get that Landry played with Reed and is the anchor of the defensive backfield, but I would love to see the Reed-Allen combo out there. Allen can play SS and come down and stuff the run like a LB can, and he can stay with any TE in the league; I firmly believe that. He may not shut down the best of the best, but he'll definitely limit them, and that's all we can ask for right now from a second yr 7th rounder. Meanwhile, we can play lock up on the outsides, thrown Davis on the Slot/RB, get a fierce pass rush with our front 4, play Harris in the short middle, and have Ed be Ed in the defensive backfield.
    What makes them think Reed will cut into Allen's playing time at all?

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