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Thread: We once again have a slow defense

  1. #1
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    We once again have a slow defense

    After showing early signs of moving in a better direction at the beginning of the year (Harris looked quicker, Davis took over for Scott) the defense once again Looks dangerously slow. Now certain Areas should take care of themselves - Pace while having a good year should be replaced next season, Barnes should come back, Ed Reed's days are hopefully numbered and Cro either gets replaced or healthy. But one of the main reason is that Quinton Coples is still way to big to be a full time OLB. Yes, we run a hybrid scheme but even for a 4-3 end he is too slow to beat his man around the Corner.

    This D while not getting any help whatsoever from the offense has shown some alarming signs in recent games in all Areas except for run defense. We are only ranked the 12th best defense in the league and the trend is pointing downwards.

    Now does anybody believe that Coples can shed enough weight or work himself into OLB shape over the offseason?! His ankle should be fine by now and can't be taken as an excuse anymore...

  2. #2
    watch them in practice vs the offense, they'll look quite fast.

  3. #3
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    i don't think the constant 3 and outs and 21 min of TOP helps the defense at all.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaming Mo View Post
    After showing early signs of moving in a better direction at the beginning of the year (Harris looked quicker, Davis took over for Scott) the defense once again Looks dangerously slow. Now certain Areas should take care of themselves - Pace while having a good year should be replaced next season, Barnes should come back, Ed Reed's days are hopefully numbered and Cro either gets replaced or healthy. But one of the main reason is that Quinton Coples is still way to big to be a full time OLB. Yes, we run a hybrid scheme but even for a 4-3 end he is too slow to beat his man around the Corner.

    This D while not getting any help whatsoever from the offense has shown some alarming signs in recent games in all Areas except for run defense. We are only ranked the 12th best defense in the league and the trend is pointing downwards.

    Now does anybody believe that Coples can shed enough weight or work himself into OLB shape over the offseason?! His ankle should be fine by now and can't be taken as an excuse anymore...
    flame,Jets dee on field way too much...thats why they are looking slow

  5. #5
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    When your star playmaker dodges training camp and plays only when he finds a reason to, it sends a message to the other 52 guys.

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    I might be in the minority but as long as he is healthy I want Pace back next year (I wanted him back this year too). Can't keep blaming him for the contract Tanny gave him. He was never a 10 sack guy but got paid like one.

    Coples is OLB in name only. He has been rushing and playing with his hand in the ground a lot. He has dropped a few times which is a few times too many but I think if we ever got a real OLB he would move back to the DL.

    Our problems on D are in the back end. Hopefully we can replace a few of those guys and play some more coverage next year instead of leaving them overwhelmed on islands like Rex insists on doing.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by jetrider View Post
    When your star playmaker dodges training camp and plays only when he finds a reason to, it sends a message to the other 52 guys.
    Please tell me you aren't talking about Holmes?? If so, he is not a star. Never was. He made one great catch in the biggest game of the year. He WAS a decent WR three years ago and will never be a big time WR again. The other part was right that he dodged TC and plays when he wants to. Won't have to worry about that much longer. He will be gone in 3 months.

  8. #8
    Step 1: Fire Rex Ryan because though he has shown to be a good D coach he is also inflexible.
    Step 2: Go to a 4-3 base defense almost all the time. We have a bunch of young studs on the Dline and playing 3-4 puts one out of natural position. Coples is a 4-3 End or Tackle, not and olb. We don't have an have never had under Rex's tenure a really good pass rushing olb.
    Step 3: Play a defense that will actually help out the weak spots, if the secondary is in peril due to injury or rookies or what have you play more zone, give them some help.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    I might be in the minority but as long as he is healthy I want Pace back next year (I wanted him back this year too). Can't keep blaming him for the contract Tanny gave him. He was never a 10 sack guy but got paid like one.

    Coples is OLB in name only. He has been rushing and playing with his hand in the ground a lot. He has dropped a few times which is a few times too many but I think if we ever got a real OLB he would move back to the DL.

    Our problems on D are in the back end. Hopefully we can replace a few of those guys and play some more coverage next year instead of leaving them overwhelmed on islands like Rex insists on doing.
    As a situational Player yes but even though Pace has always been a very solid Player he is not a starter anymore.

    And don't blame everything on the offense. Average QBs like Tannehill and Manuel dink and dunk us to death and it is sickening to watch. We have a lot of potential but I can't wait for the day we finally get some Speed on defense and dont have to watch 50 year old Ed Reed out there...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Step 1: Fire Rex Ryan because though he has shown to be a good D coach he is also inflexible.
    Step 2: Go to a 4-3 base defense almost all the time. We have a bunch of young studs on the Dline and playing 3-4 puts one out of natural position. Coples is a 4-3 End or Tackle, not and olb. We don't have an have never had under Rex's tenure a really good pass rushing olb.
    Step 3: Play a defense that will actually help out the weak spots, if the secondary is in peril due to injury or rookies or what have you play more zone, give them some help.

    Beer - do you think Harrison would be able to make the transition to 4-3 DT easily? He's athletic, but at 350 LBs, he isnt really the penetrating type of DT that would be a great fit.

    As far as those bashing coples, no, he isnt a speed rusher, but the guy is playing very well for us. For all the talk about "setting the edge" on this board you would think people would notice that we arent getting beat to the outside very often, any chance coples might be responsible for that?

  11. #11
    Harris and Davis are terrible in zone coverage vs. running backs and TEs.
    As for WRs, it's a week-to-week thing with Cro and Milliner. They only get the job done 50% of the time.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by JetsCrazey View Post
    Harris and Davis are terrible in zone coverage vs. running backs and TEs.
    As for WRs, it's a week-to-week thing with Cro and Milliner. They only get the job done 50% of the time.
    Changing to a 4-3 is stupid and useless.

    Our 3 best players on defense are Harrison, Wilkerson, and Richardson and going to a 4-3 completely changes one of their alignments. Or it takes Harrison off the field.


    Coples is not as good as those 3, and therefore should be the guy who plays slightly out of position. Exactly as it is now.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Beer - do you think Harrison would be able to make the transition to 4-3 DT easily? He's athletic, but at 350 LBs, he isnt really the penetrating type of DT that would be a great fit.

    As far as those bashing coples, no, he isnt a speed rusher, but the guy is playing very well for us. For all the talk about "setting the edge" on this board you would think people would notice that we arent getting beat to the outside very often, any chance coples might be responsible for that?
    Yes I do re Harrison, look at the Vikings and the two Williams playing DT for them for years. Both over sized guys that could be NT's. Have Harrison/Ellis at one tackle to help control the inside and then watch the other guys wreak havock as they are freed up a bit from the constraints of being 3-4 DE's in which you have major gap responsibility. I think Wilkerson, Coples and richardson would all benefit from being in a 4-3. Who do you double team?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetsCrazey View Post
    Harris and Davis are terrible in zone coverage vs. running backs and TEs.
    As for WRs, it's a week-to-week thing with Cro and Milliner. They only get the job done 50% of the time.
    Well I think we are fine with all those guys. Harris and Davis have been great against Screens and there aren't many LBs who are good against the run and can cover a real athlete one on one. I think we Need a more athletic LB opposite of Coples (who has been playing well eaglenj said) and we Need more Speed at safety. Allen should be the starter next year.

  15. #15
    Rex ryans D, cant cover a TE for there lives.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Yes I do re Harrison, look at the Vikings and the two Williams playing DT for them for years. Both over sized guys that could be NT's. Have Harrison/Ellis at one tackle to help control the inside and then watch the other guys wreak havock as they are freed up a bit from the constraints of being 3-4 DE's in which you have major gap responsibility. I think Wilkerson, Coples and richardson would all benefit from being in a 4-3. Who do you double team?
    Do you realize that you are asking a 325 lb guy to play defensive end in a 4-3? That is lunacy and no competent defensive coordinator would ever do that.


    Harrison, Mo, and Sheldon are being used perfectly. WHich is why they are grading out so highly. Why you would want to change anything with them is beyond me. That would be significantly changing the major strength of this team.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by jetsfan1983 View Post
    Changing to a 4-3 is stupid and useless.

    Our 3 best players on defense are Harrison, Wilkerson, and Richardson and going to a 4-3 completely changes one of their alignments. Or it takes Harrison off the field.


    Coples is not as good as those 3, and therefore should be the guy who plays slightly out of position. Exactly as it is now.
    Sheer and utter nonsense. You can use an oversized Dt in the 4-3 other teams have done it with great success, see the Williams's of Minny a few years back. A 4-3 for the Jets puts their three most promising young dlineman on the field at once instead of trying to shoe horn one into an olb. It also frees them up to make more plays than being constrained in a 3-4 in which on the 1st few downs they are playing run and gaps. Notice how people accentuate Wilkersons sack totals this year when always mentioning its great for a 3-4 end.

    Right now our two best players are 3-4 ends, double teamed or held back by scheme responsibility. Put these guys in a 4-3 and watch them make plays.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Sheer and utter nonsense. You can use an oversized Dt in the 4-3 other teams have done it with great success, see the Williams's of Minny a few years back. A 4-3 for the Jets puts their three most promising young dlineman on the field at once instead of trying to shoe horn one into an olb. It also frees them up to make more plays than being constrained in a 3-4 in which on the 1st few downs they are playing run and gaps. Notice how people accentuate Wilkersons sack totals this year when always mentioning its great for a 3-4 end.

    Right now our two best players are 3-4 ends, double teamed or held back by scheme responsibility. Put these guys in a 4-3 and watch them make plays.
    I don't think you understand the type of system Rex runs... This isn't a New England 3-4 where it's a strict two-gapping waste of time. Rex's system allows guys to get up field and not just read and react.


    You put Mo and Sheldon on the outside in a 4-3 and you will see their production die. They don't have the size (the right type of size), and their best work (Especially rushing the passer) is done inside the tackles. Put them outside of the tackles, and you are killing the one major strength we have.



    And the original post in this thread is stupid as well, may as well point that out. The Jets defense is not slow like it was... It's getting beat over the top, but that's mainly due to simple poor play by both Milliner and Cro. And poor tackling.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by 2foolish197 View Post
    flame,Jets dee on field way too much...thats why they are looking slow
    Just like the 9 minute drive that the Dolphins started off the game with.

    I'm tired of Rex's defense getting let off the hook for playing poorly because the offense sucks too.

    The truth is right now the Jets show an ability to stop the run and nothing more.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by jetsfan1983 View Post
    Do you realize that you are asking a 325 lb guy to play defensive end in a 4-3? That is lunacy and no competent defensive coordinator would ever do that.


    Harrison, Mo, and Sheldon are being used perfectly. WHich is why they are grading out so highly. Why you would want to change anything with them is beyond me. That would be significantly changing the major strength of this team.
    Yeah we are grading out at run stopping terrifically, to show just how awesome Wilkerson has been is to look at his sack totals while playing 3-4 end. Wilkerson has 10 sacks, Richardson 3.5, Coples 2 sacks. You are worried about Harrison not being in the best position. I'm worried about Coples being wasted and freeing up our play makers to make plays in the passing game.

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