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Thread: "A Defensive Genius" Ryan vrs Carol

  1. #1

    "A Defensive Genius" Ryan vrs Carol

    Watching MNF last night made me realize how freely these words get thrown around.

    I was about to type out a TL;DR post but after getting three paragraphs into it, I deleted it all, because I can basically sum it up with this:

    If Rex Ryan is a "defensive genius" than what the hell is Pete Carol?

    What he's done with Seattle's D, with a lot of very late picks, is crazy. The Seahawks ARE everything Rex always says he WANTS or that the Jets are GOING to be... someday.
    They attack the ball, they're fast, they're physical, they're mean, they have attitude.

    Remember when they kicked the crap out of the Bronco starters in preseason? Peyton and Denver showed up like it was going to be a nice friendly exhibition game and Seattle came out in 5th gear and manhandled them like it had post season ramifications. These guys are NASTY. They totally shut down the Saints last night. They humiliated them. Drew Brees looked desperate and impotent on every single down that I saw. They were completely finished a few possessions into the 3rd quarter. There wasn't even a fourth quarter of that game. It was like the Saints literally just surrendered, started killing the clock, letting Seattle kill the clock, OVER. They just wanted it to be over.

    The defense just made them quit, ended the game at the end of the 3rd quarter.

    What Pete Carol has created over in Seattle just makes me think the "defensive genius" tag Rex has suckered us into repeating is bullcrap.
    I'm starting to think Rex just knows the 46 defense and drafts people he thinks could pull it off. Not sure if that qualifies for "genius" titles.

    He's had some good defensive games, primarily against the Patriots in 2010, but he also got handed a pretty bad beating a few weeks earlier in the 45-3 game.
    I dont know if defensive geniuses get buried and blown out as often as we have since he's been here. Patriots have done it to us A LOT OF TIMES, and other, much crappier football teams have blown us out a few times a season, EVERY season I can think of. What sort of defensive genius gets blown out multiple times annually?

    I would kill for Seattle's D. That team looked scary. I love the way they play football

  2. #2
    I always see people complaining about people calling rex a defensive genius but I never see anyone actually calling him a defensive genius. Same with talking about our defense as "elite". No one ever calls it elite yet people always mock the ghosts who are.

    What gives?

  3. #3
    Rex is still the best DC in the NFL. since he has been here, we have always been great. look at us against the run, no one can run on out D, by far the best in the NFL

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by bigdanNJ View Post
    Rex is still the best DC in the NFL. since he has been here, we have always been great. look at us against the run, no one can run on out D, by far the best in the NFL
    People score a lot of points against us and do it every single season so it's hard to care

  5. #5
    Give the Jets defense, the Seattle offense, and it would be the best defense in the league. It is hard to continuously play great defense when it is paired with an offense the either goes 3 and out, or turns the ball over.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    People score a lot of points against us and do it every single season so it's hard to care
    No doubt Rex can call D, he dials up some great schemes and is a great coach and knows how to develop defensive players (wish he could do the same with a QB)

    My issue with a Rex defense is it is completely reliant on elite corners, he had it in Baltimore and he had it with Revis when he walked in here, as soon as the corners become vulnerable and ordinary as they have this year his whole defensive philosophy falls flat on its face.

    What coach would not love to have to two great corners to allow them to be aggressive and more diverse on Defense? Rex gets to much credit with this "guru" label.

    Great coach but no guru, we would have an elite D with Sherman and Browner but unfortunately for Rex he is not that spoilt this year.

    It's just a theory and I could be wrong so flame away.

  7. #7
    but we went to back to back afc championship games

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    People score a lot of points against us and do it every single season so it's hard to care

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
    No doubt Rex can call D, he dials up some great schemes and is a great coach and knows how to develop defensive players (wish he could do the same with a QB)

    My issue with a Rex defense is it is completely reliant on elite corners, he had it in Baltimore and he had it with Revis when he walked in here, as soon as the corners become vulnerable and ordinary as they have this year his whole defensive philosophy falls flat on its face.

    What coach would not love to have to two great corners to allow them to be aggressive and more diverse on Defense? Rex gets to much credit with this "guru" label.

    Great coach but no guru, we would have an elite D with Sherman and Browner but unfortunately for Rex he is not that spoilt this year.

    It's just a theory and I could be wrong so flame away.
    I think I agree with this ... His defenses are never no. 1 in points allowed. I like that we can stop the run.... but to me, our defense is NOT ferocious.

    Every time we play the Ravens, or even the Pats I find myself saying ... Man, I wish our defense would hit like that.

  9. #9
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    You can't compare the coaches' Performance because they got completely different Players. Seattle is LOADED with excellent defensive Players (it does not matter where they were picked) plus they have a true ball control offense to help their D. Rex in his first two years had a dominant D just like we see now elsewhere.

    I have to agree though that Rex has done a bad Job in recent years evaluating Talent on the defensive side of the ball. We continue to trot out part time Players out there as Starters (Reed, Pace, last year Scott etc.) and he still thinks he can scheme around it.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Dunnie View Post
    I think I agree with this ... His defenses are never no. 1 in points allowed. I like that we can stop the run.... but to me, our defense is NOT ferocious.

    Every time we play the Ravens, or even the Pats I find myself saying ... Man, I wish our defense would hit like that.
    What coach would not like to play man coverage with elite corners talking away #1 and #2 receivers? It allows you to be more aggressive and creative, you should be able to stop the run in this case.

    As soon as he can't put corners on an island with no over the top help, he becomes vulnerable and an average D-cord, he never changes things up when something's not working either.

    Sunday we played more zone and two high safety's because he never wanted the ball thrown over our heads, Tannehill just beat us underneath over and over again.

    I don't know I'm just lost with Rex at the min.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
    No doubt Rex can call D, he dials up some great schemes and is a great coach and knows how to develop defensive players (wish he could do the same with a QB)

    My issue with a Rex defense is it is completely reliant on elite corners, he had it in Baltimore and he had it with Revis when he walked in here, as soon as the corners become vulnerable and ordinary as they have this year his whole defensive philosophy falls flat on its face.

    What coach would not love to have to two great corners to allow them to be aggressive and more diverse on Defense? Rex gets to much credit with this "guru" label.

    Great coach but no guru, we would have an elite D with Sherman and Browner but unfortunately for Rex he is not that spoilt this year.

    It's just a theory and I could be wrong so flame away.
    Well he had Revis in his first season but on the other side we were starting Lito Sheppard who was just ok, even bad toward the end of the year. Third Corner was Lowery so we were hardly loaded in that regard. In his last season in Baltimore Rex had a 31 year old Chris McAlister (who only played 6 games that year), a 32 year old Samari Rolle (only played 6 games) and a 31 year old Corey Ivy, at those Points in their careers they were hardly an elite bunch.

    Rex has shown during his Playoff runs with the Jets that he is an elite defensive mind. He completely altered his gameplan for the 2010 game against the Patriots and dominated what is considered one of the best offenses in the last decade. He beat QBs like Brady, Manning and Rivers on the road during those years in the postseason, always with a different individual gameplan and that with hardly all pro Players everywhere as we all knew.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdanNJ View Post
    Rex is still the best DC in the NFL. since he has been here, we have always been great. look at us against the run, no one can run on out D, by far the best in the NFL
    Really? Said who?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
    What coach would not like to play man coverage with elite corners talking away #1 and #2 receivers? It allows you to be more aggressive and creative, you should be able to stop the run in this case.

    As soon as he can't put corners on an island with no over the top help, he becomes vulnerable and an average D-cord, he never changes things up when something's not working either.

    Sunday we played more zone and two high safety's because he never wanted the ball thrown over our heads, Tannehill just beat us underneath over and over again.

    I don't know I'm just lost with Rex at the min.
    I feel your pain and I'm highly critical of Rex in recent years as he Fails to really deliver a dominant defense on the field (this year even the numbers dont look good anymore, we are ranked 12th in the league). But I still feel that we hardly have the personnel to really do what we want to do out there which is in part to blame on Rex. We still have Pace, Reed and Landry out there, all are above the hill. Cro has been injured all year. Then we start two rookies, one of them who has been injured all TC. I thought we would use this year to let the Young defenders grow but then we bring in Reed to Play in front of Antonio Allen who was coming on.

    I think and hope Rex gets another Chance next year and we can turn it around because in the end, what constantly works in the postseason is a strong defense, we just have to look at last year's SB.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Watching MNF last night made me realize how freely these words get thrown around.

    I was about to type out a TL;DR post but after getting three paragraphs into it, I deleted it all, because I can basically sum it up with this:

    If Rex Ryan is a "defensive genius" than what the hell is Pete Carol?

    What he's done with Seattle's D, with a lot of very late picks, is crazy. The Seahawks ARE everything Rex always says he WANTS or that the Jets are GOING to be... someday.
    They attack the ball, they're fast, they're physical, they're mean, they have attitude.

    Remember when they kicked the crap out of the Bronco starters in preseason? Peyton and Denver showed up like it was going to be a nice friendly exhibition game and Seattle came out in 5th gear and manhandled them like it had post season ramifications. These guys are NASTY. They totally shut down the Saints last night. They humiliated them. Drew Brees looked desperate and impotent on every single down that I saw. They were completely finished a few possessions into the 3rd quarter. There wasn't even a fourth quarter of that game. It was like the Saints literally just surrendered, started killing the clock, letting Seattle kill the clock, OVER. They just wanted it to be over.

    The defense just made them quit, ended the game at the end of the 3rd quarter.

    What Pete Carol has created over in Seattle just makes me think the "defensive genius" tag Rex has suckered us into repeating is bullcrap.
    I'm starting to think Rex just knows the 46 defense and drafts people he thinks could pull it off. Not sure if that qualifies for "genius" titles.

    He's had some good defensive games, primarily against the Patriots in 2010, but he also got handed a pretty bad beating a few weeks earlier in the 45-3 game.
    I dont know if defensive geniuses get buried and blown out as often as we have since he's been here. Patriots have done it to us A LOT OF TIMES, and other, much crappier football teams have blown us out a few times a season, EVERY season I can think of. What sort of defensive genius gets blown out multiple times annually?

    I would kill for Seattle's D. That team looked scary. I love the way they play football
    I for one would say..Pete Carroll got the shaft here. He had the team doing "OK". NO TALENT, but he got fired to bring in the genius Kotite.

  15. #15
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    I'd take Seattle's D over ours in a second. And their stadium. And their coach. And their owner. And their QB.

    That just about sums it up.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    I'd take Seattle's D over ours in a second. And their stadium. And their coach. And their owner. And their QB.

    That just about sums it up.
    Thats sig material right there............

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaming Mo View Post
    Well he had Revis in his first season but on the other side we were starting Lito Sheppard who was just ok, even bad toward the end of the year. Third Corner was Lowery so we were hardly loaded in that regard. In his last season in Baltimore Rex had a 31 year old Chris McAlister (who only played 6 games that year), a 32 year old Samari Rolle (only played 6 games) and a 31 year old Corey Ivy, at those Points in their careers they were hardly an elite bunch.

    Rex has shown during his Playoff runs with the Jets that he is an elite defensive mind. He completely altered his gameplan for the 2010 game against the Patriots and dominated what is considered one of the best offenses in the last decade. He beat QBs like Brady, Manning and Rivers on the road during those years in the postseason, always with a different individual gameplan and that with hardly all pro Players everywhere as we all knew.
    Mcallister was a 3 time pro-bowler and no slouch. Having the best CB in history (along with Sanders) was a huge factor in every playoff game Rex won.

    I've already said I'm a Rex fan and he is a great mind, a great D-cord and I won't waiver from that, all I'm saying is whether it be a talented corner or one he has developed he needs them to play at a high level, if they do not the defense looks venerable.

    Beatin Brady in the playoffs was impressive, however it was a simple game plan, he just Nickel and dimed and took away all Brady's receiving threats and that with Revis in the team which helps, Ellis also had a monster day that day.

    I'm not taking anything away from Rex, it's just blatantly obvious what he needs to succeed, there are a lot of good defensive minds in this league that don't get half the plumb sucking Rex does.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by bigdanNJ View Post
    Rex is still the best DC in the NFL. since he has been here, we have always been great. look at us against the run, no one can run on out D, by far the best in the NFL
    Thank god we dominate stopping the run, even though the entire league moved to pass first and we didnt adapt at all. We held baltimore, pittsburgh, buffalo all under 100 yards rushing - how did those games turn out?

    Our defense would excel in 1995, unfortunately in 2013 we allow QBs like ryan tannenehill to shred us.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Thank god we dominate stopping the run, even though the entire league moved to pass first and we didnt adapt at all. We held baltimore, pittsburgh, buffalo all under 100 yards rushing - how did those games turn out?

    Our defense would excel in 1995, unfortunately in 2013 we allow QBs like ryan tannenehill to shred us.
    I think he was being sarcastic. I base this in the fact that Dan has NEVER...NOT ONCE, posted something positive. Can you blame him?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaming Mo View Post
    I feel your pain and I'm highly critical of Rex in recent years as he Fails to really deliver a dominant defense on the field (this year even the numbers dont look good anymore, we are ranked 12th in the league). But I still feel that we hardly have the personnel to really do what we want to do out there which is in part to blame on Rex. We still have Pace, Reed and Landry out there, all are above the hill. Cro has been injured all year. Then we start two rookies, one of them who has been injured all TC. I thought we would use this year to let the Young defenders grow but then we bring in Reed to Play in front of Antonio Allen who was coming on.

    I think and hope Rex gets another Chance next year and we can turn it around because in the end, what constantly works in the postseason is a strong defense, we just have to look at last year's SB.
    I agree and I'm prepared to see Rex here again next year. One thing that has me disillusioned aswell this year is what you mentioned above about personnel.

    There was no need to cut Allen's playing time to the extent he has, blind loyalty to Reed and other players even when they are not getting the job done really p1sses me off.

    Favouritism and the inability to adapt in game is beyond a joke, Rex is a great mind when he has a week to devise a game plan, as soon as the game plan is not working we are finished.

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