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Thread: Jets officially eliminated from playoffs

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYJ37/12 View Post
    The players love Rex. Thats normally a red flag when the players love the coach. After five years you can see that there is still little discipline, little talent, no consistency, and little player development. You can argue all you want for Rex, the facts speak for themselves. 12-33 record, no back to back wins since 11', 3rd OC, 2nd rookie qb, 2nd GM. Zero talent on offense and a defense that is lacking. I've said many times that I like Rex and really wanted this to work. I hate switching coaches every 5 years, but this is NOT working anymore.

    Players HATED & I mean absolutely HATED Eric Mangini (from all the stories I heard it was justified too), how did that work out?

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    I laugh at the idea that you vie for the team to lose to get a better position in the draft. Like a few spots will suddenly turn this team into a contender.

    The team hasn't learned consistency, execution, discipline, and how win, and we think that one player is going to change that?

    The Jets have so many issues. Hoping they lose is a strange concept to me on many levels, and if they do - that will only cause more issues down the stretch. The team collapsing at the end of the season is what so many people whine about (last two years), and now people want another collapse? Let them learn to play strong at the end, as that will help in the future. This lose on purpose mentality is just that, for losers.
    If going 6-10 v. 8-8 is the difference between getting a player like Sammy Watkins or not getting him, I'd rather lose. We missed Tavon Austin by one spot last year. A small difference in draft positioning can mean a lot. Trust me, if the Jets go 8-8, they will not get one of the elite WR prospects. I'm not too worried though, I expect that this team will lose both games even if they play their hearts out.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    I think you have to seperate a Fan's desire to get a better draft pick via losses, and the PLAYERS and their motivation. Fans root for outcomes, players/coaches/front office should always try to win, but should also play the players (now) that make the most sense for long term success, not short term chuckles.

    I don't think anyone wants the players or Coaches to phone it in. But if they DO phone it in, thats an excellent evaluation criteria for if they'll be retained for next year. Players like that should be cut loose.

    What the "better pick" side wants is both, players playing hard and developmental players getting valuble playing time, resulting in losses than improve our draft position whilst having given the young players experience, or a "shot".

    I do think some (like me) want to see long-term strategic player-playing time decisions made, but thats not "throwing in the towel", thats making franchise decisions for the betterment of the franchise long-term, to the goal of winning a title, a goal that is now impossible to reach in 2013.

    "Learning to win" is, IMO, a fantasy. We won 6 games already to this point, incuding vs. the Pats and Saints, did that not "teach" these players to win? Will winning vs. the lolBrowns make a material difference to players "learning how to win"? I think not.

    You say I can't see past Madden (despite not having played or owned a Madden game sine the late 90's), but I would counter that some fans can't seem to see past their own selfish short term PERSONAL enjoyment of a win, probably whilst downing quantities of their favorite beer, as opposed to whats best for reaching the long-term goal of winning a Super Bowl.

    And you're incorrect, a higher draft pick IS absolutely better than a lower pick. It had higher trade value, and has a better chance to allow aquisition of a higher-rated prospect. Certainly it's HOW it's used that will determine it's final value, butin and of itself, there is no real debate that the 8th pick is "better" than the 13th or 16th pick.
    Sorry. I completely disagree. Looking at things on paper (higher draft choice) isn't the only thing that equates to a better team. With a better coach, discipline, execution, consistency, the team will be better. Learning how to win is not a fantasy. Look at the Patriots. It's their culture. The Ravens, despite being weaker this year have pulled it together and are making a run. The Steelers. The list goes on. That's coaching. That's not better draft choices. Our culture is to implode at the end of every season.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    If going 6-10 v. 8-8 is the difference between getting a player like Sammy Watkins or not getting him, I'd rather lose. We missed Tavon Austin by one spot last year. A small difference in draft positioning can mean a lot. Trust me, if the Jets go 8-8, they will not get one of the elite WR prospects. I'm not too worried though, I expect that this team will lose both games even if they play their hearts out.
    Tavon Austin would not have helped this team. Jim Harbaugh might have, though.

  5. #65
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    The flip side to all of this lose for a better draft pick talk is the ability to sign free agents. What pitch would you rather make to a potential free agent.

    We finish 8-8, winning three of the last four with a young core that is close to the playoffs. Or we finish 6-10, having lost 6 of our last 7 and still appearing to be far from playoff contention.

    6-10 and we may get a better draft pick. 8-8 and we may get better free agents.


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  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    Sorry. I completely disagree.
    Life would be boring if we all agreed all the time my friend.

    Looking at things on paper (higher draft choice) isn't the only thing that equates to a better team.
    Of course not. It's a higher VALUE, how it's used would determine if it equates to a better team.

    Learning how to win is not a fantasy.
    Agree to disagree, I think this concept belongs in the GReat Book of Fan/Non-Althlete Fantasies.

    Look at the Patriots. It's their culture.
    No, it's Tom Brady and Bill Bellichek.

    Remove them, and see how fast their "culture" changes.

    Our culture is to implode at the end of every season.
    This also belongs in the Fan Fantasy Book, the idea that what happened in previous years with different players and staffs, somehow effects now.

    As if the Walton, Kotite, or Herm Era has some effect on today.

    Call it the "40+ Years Without a Title" Fantasy.

    Sorry, but no. Favre getting hurt and us falling off the face of the Earth at the end of that season.....has nothing whatsoever to do with now.

    And winning two late season garbage times games, games eveyone knows is garbage time, will not materially help some to-be-determined-2014 roster "learn to win".

    Hell, if things go as expected, 50% of our Offense starters won;t even be on the ROSTER in 2014....what does "teaching them to win" accomplish, exactly?

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Lithfan View Post
    The flip side to all of this lose for a better draft pick talk is the ability to sign free agents. What pitch would you rather make to a potential free agent.

    We finish 8-8, winning three of the last four with a young core that is close to the playoffs. Or we finish 6-10, having lost 6 of our last 7 and still appearing to be far from playoff contention.

    6-10 and we may get a better draft pick. 8-8 and we may get better free agents.


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    I'm not sure I agree with that. The types of free agents we need are going to look at the QB situation and money we offer in relation to what other teams offer (presumably we will have to outbid because no free agent offensive skill player is going to come to the Jets if another team gives a similar offer). I think regardless of 6-10 or 8-8, defensive free agents would be interested in playing for Rex if he is retained.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Lithfan View Post
    The flip side to all of this lose for a better draft pick talk is the ability to sign free agents. What pitch would you rather make to a potential free agent.
    Don't believe the PR bull****.

    The ONLY "pitch" a Free Agent needs is total money, contract length and guaranteed money.

    Anything they say to the contrary.....is a lie, pure and simple.

    We finish 8-8, winning three of the last four with a young core that is close to the playoffs. Or we finish 6-10, having lost 6 of our last 7 and still appearing to be far from playoff contention.
    Failure of Fan perception.

    We're NOT "close to the playoffs" regardless of if we finish 8-8 or 6-10.

    This team is so clearly not a playoff calibur team, such sillyness is utterly irrelvant.

    Money buys free agents. Not "hey, but we won 7 last year, not 6.....so, you'll sign, right?" arguments.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    Tavon Austin would not have helped this team. Jim Harbaugh might have, though.
    Tavon Austin is lightning fast and could be used in a variety of ways by MM. We saw him be creative with Cribbs, who doesn't have half the talent of Tavon at this point. He wouldn't have brought us to the playoffs, but he would have been a really intriguing player to have going forward on the roster. K. Wilson could easily have replicated the crap season we got from Milliner. Jim Harbaugh wasn't available so not sure why you bring him up. As good as he is, I'm not sure he could have squeezed out more than 8-8 with this roster either.

  10. #70
    You're right, Mangini was the extreme. Good coach though. You cant be buddy buddy with your players, it never works.
    Quote Originally Posted by Limolady View Post
    Players HATED & I mean absolutely HATED Eric Mangini (from all the stories I heard it was justified too), how did that work out?

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Don't believe the PR bull****.

    The ONLY "pitch" a Free Agent needs is total money, contract length and guaranteed money.

    Anything they say to the contrary.....is a lie, pure and simple.



    Failure of Fan perception.

    We're NOT "close to the playoffs" regardless of if we finish 8-8 or 6-10.

    This team is so clearly not a playoff calibur team, such sillyness is utterly irrelvant.

    Money buys free agents. Not "hey, but we won 7 last year, not 6.....so, you'll sign, right?" arguments.
    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    I'm not sure I agree with that. The types of free agents we need are going to look at the QB situation and money we offer in relation to what other teams offer (presumably we will have to outbid because no free agent offensive skill player is going to come to the Jets if another team gives a similar offer). I think regardless of 6-10 or 8-8, defensive free agents would be interested in playing for Rex if he is retained.
    You guys are probably right - maybe I am just looking for a reason to root for them during these last two games. Thanks for the reality check.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Life would be boring if we all agreed all the time my friend.
    The best thing about you is the fact that you articulately voice your opinion, support it with facts, and still can maintain civility with those you discuss with. So many posters start cyber screaming (all caps).

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Of course not. It's a higher VALUE, how it's used would determine if it equates to a better team.
    A higher draft choice theoretically should equate to a better player, but we know better - don't we.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Agree to disagree, I think this concept belongs in the GReat Book of Fan/Non-Althlete Fantasies.
    I know winning is a culture. Losing is also a culture. Old habits die hard, and with Rex at the helm we've developed some pretty blatant team habits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    No, it's Tom Brady and Bill Bellichek.

    Remove them, and see how fast their "culture" changes.
    You're right, take away the two of them and they're not as strong, but whether it's them or not the entire time consistently rallies (no one player can do it alone), and average players elevate their games. Jets players do that for a game or two. Pats players don't do it for a game or two.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    This also belongs in the Fan Fantasy Book, the idea that what happened in previous years with different players and staffs, somehow effects now.

    As if the Walton, Kotite, or Herm Era has some effect on today.

    Call it the "40+ Years Without a Title" Fantasy.
    No, but in a way, year to year, players to players - all you do is watch what those before you did. It's hard to break that mold of being mediocre. When will it end? Can the Jets win a division? In 2002, right? Nobody knows what that's like. More draft picks! That's the answer. The Patriots consistently pick in the back end of the first round, AND trade down. They're always good. Most of their picks don't pan out, either. Higher draft choices don't necessarily equate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Sorry, but no. Favre getting hurt and us falling off the face of the Earth at the end of that season.....has nothing whatsoever to do with now.
    Favre came in and got rid of Penny, and gave us Sanchez. Do you think that set the franchise back at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    And winning two late season garbage times games, games eveyone knows is garbage time, will not materially help some to-be-determined-2014 roster "learn to win".
    You (You is in general, not You as in Warfish) are a professional athlete (you wish you were a professional athlete). If you don't put the effort in, you should be paid accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Hell, if things go as expected, 50% of our Offense starters won;t even be on the ROSTER in 2014....what does "teaching them to win" accomplish, exactly?
    I hope not. But the ones that are here will be the leaders. I don't believe in losing games for higher draft picks. Play as hard as you can, and rest when it's over. This team has little professional pride. It shows.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by vinniekt View Post
    Correct, that's exactly my point. The Jets have enough talent on this team to win many football games. Rex has zero skills on how to acheive this week in week out as a good HC has the ability to do. A good HC has a disciplined, professional and consistent team that performs steadily week to week. Rex will get his team to run through a wall for a game like NO or NE but that has no sustainability. His bravado is his schtick and its temporary not consistent, give me a steady Eddie for a HC not a rah rah bully.

    You had me at "The Jets have enough Talent....." before I tuned you out.


    If you mean talent on the Defensive side, you're right but there was close to NOTHING on the offensive side.

    So no. The Jets did NOT have enough talent, plus they drafted a BUST named Stephen Hill.

    'nuff said.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by jet-sec125 View Post
    43 years without ring official.
    That stinks. Since i became a fan----
    1983-2013.....and counting.

    My buddy, huge Jets fan died a week before the season began...we used to laugh at how these billionaire Jets owners dont spend their money although one owned an OIL company and the current one makes BILLIONs in profits selling his toxic medicines.
    Major sports market and still not even an apperance since we were born....cant have that conversation with him this year though.

    So too my buddy in heaven.....next year, brother. Maybe next year.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by HitSomeone41 View Post
    That stinks. Since i became a fan----
    1983-2013.....and counting.

    My buddy, huge Jets fan died a week before the season began...we used to laugh at how these billionaire Jets owners dont spend their money although one owned an OIL company and the current one makes BILLIONs in profits selling his toxic medicines.
    Major sports market and still not even an apperance since we were born....cant have that conversation with him this year though.

    So too my buddy in heaven.....next year, brother. Maybe next year.
    That sucks man .. You can always converse with me. :-)

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