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Thread: Projected Starters in'14: Aboushi/Campbell @ RG; Antonio Allen @ SS

  1. #41
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    While I am ALL FOR drafting and developing young players into serviceable starters/back-ups, the real question is DO WE HAVE THE RIGHT COACHES capable of TEACHING these young guys and DEVELOPING them PROPERLY.

    Many cite the Brandon Moore model of DT to G for Campbell as a promising indicator. My counter-argument is that we had one of THE BEST OL Coaches from 2002-2005 in Doug Marrone, now Buffalo's HC. Do we have that caliber of coaching on the present staff? If anything, we've seen that under Rex's regime there has been PISS POOR Offensive player development. Example: Vlad Duccasse, John Connor, Joe McKnight, Stephen HIll, Robert Griffin, Jordan White, etc.

    All for developing our young guys, hopefully this offensive OL coach can do that, but whether it be not playing to expectations or - more likely - injuries that mount up, the Jets MUST bring in some veteran competition at BOTH Guard spots. In addition, bringing in some veterans will also be beneficial to teach the young guys proper locker room etiquette & decorum.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Gas2No99 View Post
    While I am ALL FOR drafting and developing young players into serviceable starters/back-ups, the real question is DO WE HAVE THE RIGHT COACHES capable of TEACHING these young guys and DEVELOPING them PROPERLY.

    Many cite the Brandon Moore model of DT to G for Campbell as a promising indicator. My counter-argument is that we had one of THE BEST OL Coaches from 2002-2005 in Doug Marrone, now Buffalo's HC. Do we have that caliber of coaching on the present staff? If anything, we've seen that under Rex's regime there has been PISS POOR Offensive player development. Example: Vlad Duccasse, John Connor, Joe McKnight, Stephen HIll, Robert Griffin, Jordan White, etc.

    All for developing our young guys, hopefully this offensive OL coach can do that, but whether it be not playing to expectations or - more likely - injuries that mount up, the Jets MUST bring in some veteran competition at BOTH Guard spots. In addition, bringing in some veterans will also be beneficial to teach the young guys proper locker room etiquette & decorum.
    You make an excellent point, offensive player development has been a disaster. Aside from Kerley who has been serviceable at best, essentially all the other recent offensive picks have been absolute duds.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesR View Post
    I read it's to do with the option year in his contract ... the team will pick it up, and we then have him under contract for two years at a reasonable rate. No need to renegotiate when you have two years available, and it can set a precedent for other players too.
    Thanks didn't know that , and it makes sense.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gas2No99 View Post
    While I am ALL FOR drafting and developing young players into serviceable starters/back-ups, the real question is DO WE HAVE THE RIGHT COACHES capable of TEACHING these young guys and DEVELOPING them PROPERLY.

    Many cite the Brandon Moore model of DT to G for Campbell as a promising indicator. My counter-argument is that we had one of THE BEST OL Coaches from 2002-2005 in Doug Marrone, now Buffalo's HC. Do we have that caliber of coaching on the present staff? If anything, we've seen that under Rex's regime there has been PISS POOR Offensive player development. Example: Vlad Duccasse, John Connor, Joe McKnight, Stephen HIll, Robert Griffin, Jordan White, etc.



    All for developing our young guys, hopefully this offensive OL coach can do that, but whether it be not playing to expectations or - more likely - injuries that mount up, the Jets MUST bring in some veteran competition at BOTH Guard spots. In addition, bringing in some veterans will also be beneficial to teach the young guys proper locker room etiquette & decorum.

    Some of those guys were just talentless and nobody could of gotten much out of them. Austin Howard has been developed into a good RT.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollywoodjet View Post
    lol everyone wants the Jets to model the Seahawks and hit on late draft picks like Sherman and smith and Baldwin . But no one wants to take a chance on these guys Starting. I'm glad they are thinking of Aboushi inside at RG because his Problem is Heavy feet and sliding at Tackle where speed rushers kill him . His Positives as a guy with a strong Punch and playing to the Whistle fits with him going inside at RG. Campbell the limited time he got in PRE-season he is Strong and bigger than a OX but like any guy switching positions was getting killed with simple Stunts. I'm all for getting these young guys a chance and also bringing a hold the fort guy or resigning Colon.
    There is a big difference between "hoping" one of the young guys can win the starting job and knowing that one of them is actually good enough to start. The Jets "hoped" that Vernon Gholston and Ducasse would come around just like they "hope" that Stephen Hill will too. Hope is useless, both in life and football. Facts only please. Either you can play, or you can't.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    The jets invested three draft picks in the guard position ( in 2013 NFl draft) . IF you think they are going to be big spenders at that position - highly unlikely. They might address the position again later in the draft.( have multiple picks in a couple of rounds) .

    The jets are 22 million under the cap right now. yes when they release m Sanchez, s Holmes and Antonio Cromartie they will get a lot more money. But they have to replace those players in Fa, and have some Fa that they have to pay. ( Rt Austin Howard and k Nick Folk)

    Last point Jets have so much money tied up in the Oline already ,that they can't bring in another big Fa signee. ( take away resources from other positions)

    Btw Don't understand why the Jets aren't taking care of M Wilkerson contract this year. 2015 is going to be a big Fa class, and that is when you want to have a lot of money to play with.

    Is Ijalana. Really a tackle or is he better suited for guard.
    ANALYSIS
    STRENGTHS Ijalana has adequate height with a thick build. Quick footed lineman that generates a good push when he gets his hands inside. Displays good awareness in pass protection identifying stunts and blitzes. Fierce competitor that shows a mean streak and fights to whistle. Dominant at the FCS level.
    WEAKNESSES Does not have the prototypical height for the tackle position and will likely have to move to guard. Struggles to block more athletic defensive lineman in pass protection. Lacks the ability to consistently get to the second level and make blocks in space. Appears sluggish at times and there are concerns about his conditioning.( sounds like Aboushi)
    I don't think they're going to go with unproven players at guard, especially considering the problems it has caused over the years with similar scenarios. The Colon signing for a year was a good idea - albeit not great. I hope they do something like that again, at least until they draft or develop a starter. I don't see Idzik letting that position stay as bare as it is right now.

    Do you think there will be another QB on the Jets roster via the draft?

    I read about Ijalana. Sounds like a decent prospect, but he's in the same category as those other two right now. We'll see. It's a tough spot either way. there are so many holes. I do like Allen at safety. I think people underestimate him (not us - more the media who don't watch entire games).

    And well, if the Jets are going to follow the seattle method of building a team, they're not going to re-sign players early (mo situation). Who knows, I just want to have a competitive team that is in the hunt for playoff wins. All I can do is speculate like the rest of us.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Gas2No99 View Post
    While I am ALL FOR drafting and developing young players into serviceable starters/back-ups, the real question is DO WE HAVE THE RIGHT COACHES capable of TEACHING these young guys and DEVELOPING them PROPERLY.

    Many cite the Brandon Moore model of DT to G for Campbell as a promising indicator. My counter-argument is that we had one of THE BEST OL Coaches from 2002-2005 in Doug Marrone, now Buffalo's HC. Do we have that caliber of coaching on the present staff? If anything, we've seen that under Rex's regime there has been PISS POOR Offensive player development. Example: Vlad Duccasse, John Connor, Joe McKnight, Stephen HIll, Robert Griffin, Jordan White, etc.

    All for developing our young guys, hopefully this offensive OL coach can do that, but whether it be not playing to expectations or - more likely - injuries that mount up, the Jets MUST bring in some veteran competition at BOTH Guard spots. In addition, bringing in some veterans will also be beneficial to teach the young guys proper locker room etiquette & decorum.
    I think it's a combination of poor coaching and bad drafting. Two of the guys you mentioned (Duccasse and Hill) were boom or bust, sadly they have both been (or in Hill's case) mostly likely busts. But Jordan White and Robert Griffin were 6th and 7th round draft picks. Those guys get cut all the time.

    We have developed some offensive talent (Slauson, Powell, Kerley and Howard) since Rex came over.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    I don't think they're going to go with unproven players at guard, especially considering the problems it has caused over the years with similar scenarios. The Colon signing for a year was a good idea - albeit not great. I hope they do something like that again, at least until they draft or develop a starter. I don't see Idzik letting that position stay as bare as it is right now.

    Do you think there will be another QB on the Jets roster via the draft?

    I read about Ijalana. Sounds like a decent prospect, but he's in the same category as those other two right now. We'll see. It's a tough spot either way. there are so many holes. I do like Allen at safety. I think people underestimate him (not us - more the media who don't watch entire games).

    And well, if the Jets are going to follow the seattle method of building a team, they're not going to re-sign players early (mo situation). Who knows, I just want to have a competitive team that is in the hunt for playoff wins. All I can do is speculate like the rest of us.
    We will see what the Jets do at guard this off season . You might prove right there as were both guessing.

    JMO Yes the Jets will draft a QB probably third or fourth round. ( Just like Matt Flynn didn't stop the Seahawks from drafting Russell wilson(You keep drafting that QB till he proves to be the guy). Multiple picks in third and fourth round is set up for the Jets, to take a flyer on a QB prospect.

    Jmo On Ijalana is I think he another guard prospect, who best position isn't tackle .( 4 games and they(COLTS) give up on second round pick- that doesn't raise red flags. Some players teams let go, turn out to be very good players with a different team- just can't say he is a sure thing. (hasn't proved anything yet in his professional career) Time will tell one way or the other.
    Last edited by Raider9175; 02-05-2014 at 08:50 PM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by RoadFan View Post
    There is a big difference between "hoping" one of the young guys can win the starting job and knowing that one of them is actually good enough to start. The Jets "hoped" that Vernon Gholston and Ducasse would come around just like they "hope" that Stephen Hill will too. Hope is useless, both in life and football. Facts only please. Either you can play, or you can't.
    You and I won't know till the Pre-season if these guys can or can't play . But Competition and giving the guys a chance is great and have a Vet at Minimum for Insurance is good... Ducasse has nothing to do how these Prospects play . The NFL is on to the next one if you can't play .

  10. #50
    Aboushi is absolutely not starting at RG... He's a tackle prospect and he's a decent one at that. He's more of a mobile guy and it would not play into his strengths to have him at RG at all. That is Cimini being a dumbass. Campbell could work out there, but we'll see. I still think Colon is the number 1 option there although they'll take their time and wait for his price to go down this offseason. Much like last offseason.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Gas2No99 View Post
    While I am ALL FOR drafting and developing young players into serviceable starters/back-ups, the real question is DO WE HAVE THE RIGHT COACHES capable of TEACHING these young guys and DEVELOPING them PROPERLY.

    Many cite the Brandon Moore model of DT to G for Campbell as a promising indicator. My counter-argument is that we had one of THE BEST OL Coaches from 2002-2005 in Doug Marrone, now Buffalo's HC. Do we have that caliber of coaching on the present staff? If anything, we've seen that under Rex's regime there has been PISS POOR Offensive player development. Example: Vlad Duccasse, John Connor, Joe McKnight, Stephen HIll, Robert Griffin, Jordan White, etc.

    All for developing our young guys, hopefully this offensive OL coach can do that, but whether it be not playing to expectations or - more likely - injuries that mount up, the Jets MUST bring in some veteran competition at BOTH Guard spots. In addition, bringing in some veterans will also be beneficial to teach the young guys proper locker room etiquette & decorum.
    It's a reasonable question, and while I like Rex Ryan your point about offensive player development would be the reason I would have been okay if he was let go (But looking at the new coaches of 2014, I'm not sure it would have been wise)

    I'd argue that siting 5th/6th round guys as proof that they aren't developing offensive talent is a bit of a stretch, Kerley and Slauson both developed into solid starters, and Powell and Bohanan have developed fairly well for late round picks, that's fairly good production from late round offensive draft picks.

    Guys who really haven't/didn't develop like Hill, Sanchez, Greene, and Ducasse do weigh on the franchise.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Peebag View Post
    Agreed - Winters looked absolutely overwhelmed during the year - hope he gets it together but we can't go into next season with just these dudes - we'll get killed.
    Winters came on at the end of the year, he will be okay, and what kind of cat is that pictured in your header ? Mountain Lion?

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    We will see what the Jets do at guard this off season . You might prove right there as were both guessing.

    JMO Yes the Jets will draft a QB probably third or fourth round. ( Just like Matt Flynn didn't stop the Seahawks from drafting Russell wilson(You keep drafting that QB till he proves to be the guy). Multiple picks in third and fourth round is set up for the Jets, to take a flyer on a QB prospect.

    Jmo On Ijalana is I think he another guard prospect, who best position isn't tackle .( 4 games and they(COLTS) give up on second round pick- that doesn't raise red flags. Some players teams let go, turn out to be very good players with a different team- just can't say he is a sure thing. (hasn't proved anything yet in his professional career) Time will tell one way or the other.
    Maybe the coaches know better, but I'm not set on one of those guys penciled in as the starter from now. Why weren't they playing last year?

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    Maybe the coaches know better, but I'm not set on one of those guys penciled in as the starter from now. Why weren't they playing last year?
    Agree, they weren't even active for a single game. I know they can be developed, but I can't count on a player going from inactive all season to adequate starter.

    Would like to see Jets add a guard (Asomoah) in free agency, and bring back Colon and have him and Winters compete for other guard spot. Let's make OL a strength and get the offense going.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by jpoppy7 View Post
    Agree, they weren't even active for a single game. I know they can be developed, but I can't count on a player going from inactive all season to adequate starter.

    Would like to see Jets add a guard (Asomoah) in free agency, and bring back Colon and have him and Winters compete for other guard spot. Let's make OL a strength and get the offense going.
    Asamoah will likely cost a decent buck and you MUST cheap out at some positions... Guard is one of those spots.


    Hang tight and pick up another guy who falls through the cracks. We did it with Colon and can do it again.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by jpoppy7 View Post
    Let's make OL a strength and get the offense going.
    Will make so many problems go away if this happened.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by jpoppy7 View Post
    Agree, they weren't even active for a single game. I know they can be developed, but I can't count on a player going from inactive all season to adequate starter.

    Would like to see Jets add a guard (Asomoah) in free agency, and bring back Colon and have him and Winters compete for other guard spot. Let's make OL a strength and get the offense going.
    If you pay Asomoah do you pay Howard too . To be a successful team you have to plug in and develop your mid and late picks . A good convo I heard over the Super Bowl telecast Seattle led the League in Transactions over the last 4 years with close to a 1000 the Schneider/Carroll Gm /Coach were always competing for spots until till they developed the deepest team in the League. A lot of people will be surprised when a lot of dollars in big time free agents aren't spent . Idzik said you find your Talent in the draft and use free agency for need.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Gas2No99 View Post
    While I am ALL FOR drafting and developing young players into serviceable starters/back-ups, the real question is DO WE HAVE THE RIGHT COACHES capable of TEACHING these young guys and DEVELOPING them PROPERLY.

    Many cite the Brandon Moore model of DT to G for Campbell as a promising indicator. My counter-argument is that we had one of THE BEST OL Coaches from 2002-2005 in Doug Marrone, now Buffalo's HC. Do we have that caliber of coaching on the present staff? If anything, we've seen that under Rex's regime there has been PISS POOR Offensive player development. Example: Vlad Duccasse, John Connor, Joe McKnight, Stephen HIll, Robert Griffin, Jordan White, etc.

    All for developing our young guys, hopefully this offensive OL coach can do that, but whether it be not playing to expectations or - more likely - injuries that mount up, the Jets MUST bring in some veteran competition at BOTH Guard spots. In addition, bringing in some veterans will also be beneficial to teach the young guys proper locker room etiquette & decorum.
    All of those guys stink. Most of them won't even be on an NFL roster in two years. It's bad drafting of offensive players than development.

    As far as development on the OL goes, Slauson, Austin Howard . . .

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by hollywoodjet View Post
    If you pay Asomoah do you pay Howard too . To be a successful team you have to plug in and develop your mid and late picks . A good convo I heard over the Super Bowl telecast Seattle led the League in Transactions over the last 4 years with close to a 1000 the Schneider/Carroll Gm /Coach were always competing for spots until till they developed the deepest team in the League. A lot of people will be surprised when a lot of dollars in big time free agents aren't spent . Idzik said you find your Talent in the draft and use free agency for need.
    Signing Asomoah and resigning Howard, like any signing, depends largely on cost. My sense is that neither will be so expensive.

    The offense needs to improve in just about every area. Based on who is available in free agency and the draft this offseason, and my rough guesses of what players will cost, I think it makes sense to add a guard in FA, and add receivers and TE mainly in the draft. If my admittedly rudimentary perception of how much players will command in FA is off, then my plan is off too.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by jpoppy7 View Post
    Signing Asomoah and resigning Howard, like any signing, depends largely on cost. My sense is that neither will be so expensive.

    The offense needs to improve in just about every area. Based on who is available in free agency and the draft this offseason, and my rough guesses of what players will cost, I think it makes sense to add a guard in FA, and add receivers and TE mainly in the draft. If my admittedly rudimentary perception of how much players will command in FA is off, then my plan is off too.

    I just think Idzik is a Bargain basement Shopper and don't be expecting 30 and 40 million dollar contracts to be doled out the first day of free agency. The Talent will be from the draft and he will expect another 4-5 guys to start this year from the draft . And plug up holes with vets like Colon and Landry on the cheap.

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