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Thread: Creationism vs. Science, Ham vs. Nye Debate

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Yes it did.
    Yet you didn't have one, thus negating such a claim.

    I'm sure you're super awesome PK, truly, but if a High School dropout could do the job, and do it well,....it clearly didn't "require" a Bachelors degree in Accounting.

    We all know what require means, right? I.e. can;t be done without it.

    You did it, without it, thus it wasn't required.

    The employer may have wanted one, but it clearly did not require one.

    Quote Originally Posted by WestCoastOffensive View Post
    Repressed anger compounds into anxiety. Maybe you're resentful that you feel pressure to be your best, even in here, when you know we are all your friends.

    Maybe you're resentful that I'm not close enough to punch in the nose.

    Lotta frustration...
    Maybe your desire to psycho-analyze me is silly?

    And no, I'd never punch you WCO, I'm a very non-violent man.

  2. #122
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    Creationism vs. Science, Ham vs. Nye Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    ..,it clearly didn't "require" a Bachelors degree in Accounting.
    Yes it did. And still does.

    There isn't a single job in the world that "requires" a degree. Employers require degrees...jobs do not.
    Last edited by PlumberKhan; 02-14-2014 at 08:49 AM.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Yes it did. And still does.

    There isn't a single job in the world that "requires" a degree. Employers require degrees...jobs do not.
    Jobs require the skills taught to you when you earn a degree. So you claim all the skills of a 4 year finance/accounting degree then, eh?

    Without any training to boot, you must be a genius, or the work so easy (to you) as to be trivial.

    So I concede, PK Springsteen, you're smarter than a guy with a Bachelors in Finance, congratulations. We all bow at your Khan-like superior intellect and abillity to do complex financial/accounting jobs you're recieved no training in, because clearly that **** is so easy, even a dropout Plumber can do it! Just hire a bitter perma-angry working class hero wanna-be who hates the educated, and your complex advanced accounting woes will dissapear!

    Let me guess, you never had to research or look up how to do anything either, but still did an amazing job, right?
    Last edited by Warfish; 02-14-2014 at 09:02 AM.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Yes it did. And still does.

    There isn't a single job in the world that "requires" a degree. Employers require degrees...jobs do not.
    Spoken like a man who has no respect for education. Please dont pass that on to the next generation.

  5. #125
    Amazing how you look at big successes who aren't college graduates, but they are kicking azz in the college educated forums. Work experience is pretty important, no?


    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Jobs require the skills taught to you when you earn a degree. So you claim all the skills of a 4 year finance/accounting degree then, eh?

    Without any training to boot, you must be a genius, or the work so easy (to you) as to be trivial.

    So I concede, PK Springsteen, you're smarter than a guy with a Bachelors in Finance, congratulations. We all bow at your Khan-like superior intellect and abillity to do complex financial/accounting jobs you're recieved no training in, because clearly that **** is so easy, even a dropout Plumber can do it! Just hire a bitter perma-angry working class hero wanna-be who hates the educated, and your complex advanced accounting woes will dissapear!

    Let me guess, you never had to research or look up how to do anything either, but still did an amazing job, right?

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Spoken like a man who has no respect for education. Please dont pass that on to the next generation.
    Respecting education and needing education are two inherently different things. I respect the hell out of education; I make sure to pass that message along to all of my nieces and nephews, and I'll be sure to place a premium on it with my own children when I have them...but I didn't necessarily need one to get to where I am. Case in point, I was a liberal arts major who is launching a startup soon, and have two interviews in the private investment space lined up for next week.

    My grandfather didn't go to college, and he made a great living as an accountant. I'm sure somewhere in your ancestry, as well as many, many others, education was not necessary to lead a good and comfortable life. Doesn't mean they all disrespected or omitted respect for education.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Spoken like a man who has no respect for education. Please dont pass that on to the next generation.
    I think I get what PK is saying. There are a lot more ways to learn than through a degree program at a college. All a degree shows is that you had the perseverance, money or credit, and just enough smarts to pass their courses. The degree in and of itself doesn't mean that you retained anything or acquired or mastered any particular skills.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    I think I get what PK is saying. There are a lot more ways to learn than through a degree program at a college. All a degree shows is that you had the perseverance, money or credit, and just enough smarts to pass their courses. The degree in and of itself doesn't mean that you retained anything or acquired or mastered any particular skills.
    Ding, ding, ding!

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Jobs require the skills taught to you when you earn a degree. So you claim all the skills of a 4 year finance/accounting degree then, eh?

    Without any training to boot, you must be a genius, or the work so easy (to you) as to be trivial.

    So I concede, PK Springsteen, you're smarter than a guy with a Bachelors in Finance, congratulations. We all bow at your Khan-like superior intellect and abillity to do complex financial/accounting jobs you're recieved no training in, because clearly that **** is so easy, even a dropout Plumber can do it! Just hire a bitter perma-angry working class hero wanna-be who hates the educated, and your complex advanced accounting woes will dissapear!

    Let me guess, you never had to research or look up how to do anything either, but still did an amazing job, right?
    This post is rich coming from the biggest pontificating, self righteous blowhard on the site.

    Yes, Warfish. You are right. Everyone else is wrong.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    I think I get what PK is saying. There are a lot more ways to learn than through a degree program at a college. All a degree shows is that you had the perseverance, money or credit, and just enough smarts to pass their courses. The degree in and of itself doesn't mean that you retained anything or acquired or mastered any particular skills.
    Exactly.

    A degree shows you had $$$ to pay for it. If colleges churned out only smart people...there would never be threads in the Hamper about how stupid their office coworkers are

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    This post is rich coming from the biggest pontificating, self righteous blowhard on the site.

    Yes, Warfish. You are right. Everyone else is wrong.
    Freely and often admitted PK.

    When will we get you to admit you have massive, hateful, chip on your shoulder to anyone who does better than you fiscally, has more education than you, has more stuff than you, has more flexabillity to post on the internet than you, etc, etc, etc, or isn't a Plumber?

    You are the most angry and hateful person in this subsection PK. Whatever your chip, I sure as **** didn't cause it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    I think I get what PK is saying. There are a lot more ways to learn than through a degree program at a college. All a degree shows is that you had the perseverance, money or credit, and just enough smarts to pass their courses. The degree in and of itself doesn't mean that you retained anything or acquired or mastered any particular skills.
    Which means the job does not, in fact, REQUIRE a degree, because the skills can be aquires other ways.

    Which is what I said.

    **** sake do you people even READ!

    But lets be clear, I GUARANTEE YOU that PK's desk job did not, in any real way, REQUIRE the skillset and knowledge of a 4-year college graduate in Accounting/Finance, and that his employer was simply asking for it because they could, something that is incredably common in today's job market.

    Becasue I'm more than willing to bet a high school dropout such as he (and he brags about that dropout status, so save any outrage over it being mentioned) does not posess, and did not aquire, the skillset and knowledge of a 4 year finance/accounting degree fixing ****ters and sinks (a vital job, one I highly respect, especially now), and he didn't just figure it out on the job, not if it REALLY required a 4-year college degree in finance and accounting, and all the skills and knowledge that come with it.

    Unless, of course, PK is a accounting/finance savant and just didn't know it. I guess thats always a possabillity.....if so, going back to Plumbing would be a pretty severe career mistake, because accounting/finance pays a hell of a lot better than fixing plumbing in most areas.
    Last edited by Warfish; 02-14-2014 at 11:15 AM.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    But lets be clear, I GUARANTEE YOU that PK's desk job did not, in any real way, REQUIRE the skillset and knowledge of a 4-year college graduate in Accounting/Finance.
    Yes it did.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    I think I get what PK is saying. There are a lot more ways to learn than through a degree program at a college. All a degree shows is that you had the perseverance, money or credit, and just enough smarts to pass their courses. The degree in and of itself doesn't mean that you retained anything or acquired or mastered any particular skills.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenwichjetfan View Post
    Respecting education and needing education are two inherently different things. I respect the hell out of education; I make sure to pass that message along to all of my nieces and nephews, and I'll be sure to place a premium on it with my own children when I have them...but I didn't necessarily need one to get to where I am. Case in point, I was a liberal arts major who is launching a startup soon, and have two interviews in the private investment space lined up for next week.

    My grandfather didn't go to college, and he made a great living as an accountant. I'm sure somewhere in your ancestry, as well as many, many others, education was not necessary to lead a good and comfortable life. Doesn't mean they all disrespected or omitted respect for education.

    Of course..Gates and Jobs BOTH are great examples. In my practice, I have told PK I have 2 plumbers as clients. One makes 50K the other 200K. neither went to college. The difference in their income is not education. By in large...education is extremely important.

    But to point at the extreme exception and say "YES...education isn't needed" is not astute. I am certain surgeries are performed by non medically trained people. The number one cause of success is hard work, drive and working with an end in mind. I have done it and I was a terrible HS student and didnt focus in college until late. I went "back" to get an accounting degree.

    Read Dave Thomas's biography. I read it in 1990 and he states the same. Success is made by people who demand it of themselves. He was a high school drop out.

    Doesn't mean a great college education isn't right for most.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Which means the job does not, in fact, REQUIRE a degree, because the skills can be aquires other ways.

    Which is what I said.

    **** sake do you people even READ!

    But lets be clear, I GUARANTEE YOU that PK's desk job did not, in any real way, REQUIRE the skillset and knowledge of a 4-year college graduate in Accounting/Finance, and that his employer was simply asking for it because they could, something that is incredably common in today's job market.

    Becasue I'm more than willing to bet a high school dropout such as he (and he brags about that dropout status, so save any outrage over it being mentioned) does not posess, and did not aquire, the skillset and knowledge of a 4 year finance/accounting degree fixing ****ters and sinks (a vital job, one I highly respect, especially now), and he didn't just figure it out on the job, not if it REALLY required a 4-year college degree in finance and accounting, and all the skills and knowledge that come with it.

    Unless, of course, PK is a accounting/finance savant and just didn't know it. I guess thats always a possabillity.....if so, going back to Plumbing would be a pretty severe career mistake, because accounting/finance pays a hell of a lot better than fixing plumbing in most areas.
    Agreed and that wasn't the point that I was replying to. I agree that PK probably wasn't "an accountant", he was probably doing some accounting for a small office which is definitely different. However not everyone uses everything learned in their degree program in their job. For example I am in IT. I got my degree in IT much later than when I started in IT. The skills I learned on my own before and after college are much more pertinent to my daily tasks than my schooling is. In my opinion college in general teaches some valuable things like completing projects and improves writing skills. It also helps in social aspects and becoming a well rounded person by teaching general things by requiring electives such as music/art appreciation, literature courses, etc. Of course there are many other ways to learn these skills other than in college.

    Bachelor's level courses also teach some skills in the realm that you are studying. For example as a part of my IT schooling we learned Java and C programming at a very low level, some computer design and some industry analysis. When I went for my masters

    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Of course..Gates and Jobs BOTH are great examples. In my practice, I have told PK I have 2 plumbers as clients. One makes 50K the other 200K. neither went to college. The difference in their income is not education. By in large...education is extremely important.

    But to point at the extreme exception and say "YES...education isn't needed" is not astute. I am certain surgeries are performed by non medically trained people. The number one cause of success is hard work, drive and working with an end in mind. I have done it and I was a terrible HS student and didnt focus in college until late. I went "back" to get an accounting degree.

    Read Dave Thomas's biography. I read it in 1990 and he states the same. Success is made by people who demand it of themselves. He was a high school drop out.

    Doesn't mean a great college education isn't right for most.
    At the cost of today's colleges I don't know if a college education is right for most anymore. I think that unless you are going to be in a field that requires (not desires) a degree then college is obviously the way to go. Doctors, Lawyers, etc need degrees. However all these kids that are going deep into debt for liberal arts, women's studies, etc could have done more with the time and money getting on the job experience somewhere or taking time to figure out what degree could really help them achieve their goals in life.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post

    At the cost of today's colleges I don't know if a college education is right for most anymore. I think that unless you are going to be in a field that requires (not desires) a degree then college is obviously the way to go. Doctors, Lawyers, etc need degrees. However all these kids that are going deep into debt for liberal arts, women's studies, etc could have done more with the time and money getting on the job experience somewhere or taking time to figure out what degree could really help them achieve their goals in life.
    What are these kids going to do? Agreed that 100K plus for college is insane for many. A degree from Phoenix, Strayer etc.. is worth nothing. But if you go to a basic State college, get out at 21 or 22. THAT is as great a start as any. If some kid who didn't go, gets a head start well good for him. Chances are, a college educated kid, with the same ambition will pass the other kid very rapidly.

    My nephew, average kid, is interviewing from WV... has opportunities with a few large co's. he is an engineering major. My guess is he will be making 100K in less than 4 years. My eldest daughter, 27 will make 100K this year. College didn't hurt them. the jobs require it etc.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    What are these kids going to do? Agreed that 100K plus for college is insane for many. A degree from Phoenix, Strayer etc.. is worth nothing. But if you go to a basic State college, get out at 21 or 22. THAT is as great a start as any. If some kid who didn't go, gets a head start well good for him. Chances are, a college educated kid, with the same ambition will pass the other kid very rapidly.

    My nephew, average kid, is interviewing from WV... has opportunities with a few large co's. he is an engineering major. My guess is he will be making 100K in less than 4 years. My eldest daughter, 27 will make 100K this year. College didn't hurt them. the jobs require it etc.
    As I said Engineering really requires a degree and if you know out of high school that you want to be an engineer and have the money, aptitude and attitude/drive to get an engineering degree then I agree 100% it is the right move. But going to college for the sake of going with no end in mind makes no sense.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Yes it did.
    Maybe you're right, maybe I'm being closed minded.

    So....

    1. For example? I.e. what tasks were you doing that required Bachelors-level knowlegde of say, accounting?

    2. How did you aquire the knowlegde and skillset that allowed you to do the "for example" above?

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Maybe you're right, maybe I'm being closed minded.

    So....

    1. For example? I.e. what tasks were you doing that required Bachelors-level knowlegde of say, accounting?

    2. How did you aquire the knowlegde and skillset that allowed you to do the "for example" above?

    Ive seen tons of positions in large org's that require an accounting degree but can really be learned on the job. What PK is saying is quite common actually.

  19. #139
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    Let me get this right: Dinosaurs at a job interview = ok

    Dinosaurs carrying Jesus = dubious


    So... that opens the door for Job Creationism. Who was the first CEO?
    Last edited by WestCoastOffensive; 02-14-2014 at 01:43 PM.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Ive seen tons of positions in large org's that require an accounting degree but can really be learned on the job. What PK is saying is quite common actually.
    Then they don't "require" an Accounting degree to do, the employer simply wants one.

    Requiring an Accounting degree, in real terms, would mean one needs the bredath of education said degree provides, not just one small aspect that could easily be learned on the job.

    For example, any reasonable intelligent person can data enter a few JE's into the GL if they're pre-setup by a CFO or CPA, or similarly most can do basic tracking of things in Excel or quickbooks, i.e. a Bookkeeper. And thats what many many accounting or accountant positions are, book keepers.

    So again, the employer may want (i.e. require) an Accounting degree, but the job may not really require one to do. Semantics perhaps. /shrug
    Last edited by Warfish; 02-14-2014 at 01:44 PM.

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