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Thread: Creationism vs. Science, Ham vs. Nye Debate

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    If you say so (I have no idea what you're saying, tbh, sounds like fluff to me). If trauma made one faithful, I'd be at church every day. /shrug.



    This I can agree with. I appreciate that he'd be willing to discuss it, although in fairness a YEC person of faith probably sees this as an opportunity to prosthelytize, and ignores and criticism anyway.
    Actually it has nothing to do with proselytizing at all it comes from a simple verse where it says Go and teach the world. Be a light for someone.......that is not the exact verse but paraphrasing.

    the problem with religion today is they think it is up to them to change a non-believers mind but in reality according to the bible we are just supposed to tell truth when we get a chance or get in a discussion and pending GOD's will he can send the holy ghost to do his bidding and imprint upon the mind of the non-believer what he wants.

    I honestly could care less if people call me a bible-thumper or anything else I just have a belief that we were meant for more than to just live and die.

    what am i missing out in that makes this a bad thing?

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by ucrenegade View Post
    Actually it has nothing to do with proselytizing at all it comes from a simple verse where it says Go and teach the world. Be a light for someone.......that is not the exact verse but paraphrasing.

    the problem with religion today is they think it is up to them to change a non-believers mind but in reality according to the bible we are just supposed to tell truth when we get a chance or get in a discussion and pending GOD's will he can send the holy ghost to do his bidding and imprint upon the mind of the non-believer what he wants.

    I honestly could care less if people call me a bible-thumper or anything else I just have a belief that we were meant for more than to just live and die.

    what am i missing out in that makes this a bad thing?
    No; that's how I do it; when the time presents itself, I share my message, get them to iterate the chant, and that's enough. The job is complete.


    Nam myoho renge kyo


    Done.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by ucrenegade View Post
    Actually it has nothing to do with proselytizing at all it comes from a simple verse where it says Go and teach the world.
    Go and teach the world is what prosthelytize means.

    what am i missing out in that makes this a bad thing?
    I think I'm going to bow out, because at this point I don't see a route forward that wouldn't be considered disrespectful of your beliefs.

    Given I'm now debating you, WCO, PK, CPA and more, on five different subjects, and going no where on any of them, it's probably for the best.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Go and teach the world is what prosthelytize means.



    I think I'm going to bow out, because at this point I don't see a route forward that wouldn't be considered disrespectful of your beliefs. +1 zillion

    Given I'm now debating you, WCO, PK, CPA and more, on five different subjects, and going no where on any of them, it's probably for the best.
    Dude, you bring out the wolfpack.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Go and teach the world is what prosthelytize means.



    I think I'm going to bow out, because at this point I don't see a route forward that wouldn't be considered disrespectful of your beliefs.

    Given I'm now debating you, WCO, PK, CPA and more, on five different subjects, and going no where on any of them, it's probably for the best.
    no like i said the religous people of today want to prosthelytize i am just having a discussion.........i have done my job the holy ghost will do the rest.........like i said think of me how you want but at least thank you for not being mean about my beliefs on a msg board no matter what you really think of me it was a nice discussion and with religion it is hard to find that.

    GOD BLESS you in your future learnings

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Then they don't "require" an Accounting degree to do, the employer simply wants one.

    Requiring an Accounting degree, in real terms, would mean one needs the bredath of education said degree provides, not just one small aspect that could easily be learned on the job.

    For example, any reasonable intelligent person can data enter a few JE's into the GL if they're pre-setup by a CFO or CPA, or similarly most can do basic tracking of things in Excel or quickbooks, i.e. a Bookkeeper. And thats what many many accounting or accountant positions are, book keepers.

    So again, the employer may want (i.e. require) an Accounting degree, but the job may not really require one to do. Semantics perhaps. /shrug
    Agreed.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by WestCoastOffensive View Post
    Dude, you bring out the wolfpack.
    /shrug

    Quote Originally Posted by ucrenegade View Post
    GOD BLESS you in your future learnings
    Since you know I can't echo that seniment, I'll just say thank you for the exchange, and that I wish you all the best UC. I enjoyed our exchange.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Maybe you're right, maybe I'm being closed minded.

    So....

    1. For example? I.e. what tasks were you doing that required Bachelors-level knowlegde of say, accounting?

    2. How did you aquire the knowlegde and skillset that allowed you to do the "for example" above?
    I have no idea.

    My boss would say "hey, I have this property. We can build a building with this many units in it. This is how much the land costs. Here is the market study that says how much we could achieve in rent. Here is how much the contractor says it will cost to remodel it. Extrapolate from our other projects how much it would cost to operate it. Tell me if the project is feasible to build or not" and I would run the numbers and tell him.

    Seemed pretty easy to me. Not complicated. I only did it because the Dept head was cool with me. I met him smoking outside the fire exit of the office building.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    I have no idea.

    My boss would say "hey, I have this property. We can build a building with this many units in it. This is how much the land costs. Here is the market study that says how much we could achieve in rent. Here is how much the contractor says it will cost to remodel it. Extrapolate from our other projects how much it would cost to operate it. Tell me if the project is feasible to build or not" and I would run the numbers and tell him.

    Seemed pretty easy to me. Not complicated. I only did it because the Dept head was cool with me. I met him smoking outside the fire exit of the office building.
    That reminds me of this terrific scene....


  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    I have no idea.

    My boss would say "hey, I have this property. We can build a building with this many units in it. This is how much the land costs. Here is the market study that says how much we could achieve in rent. Here is how much the contractor says it will cost to remodel it. Extrapolate from our other projects how much it would cost to operate it. Tell me if the project is feasible to build or not" and I would run the numbers and tell him.

    Seemed pretty easy to me. Not complicated. I only did it because the Dept head was cool with me. I met him smoking outside the fire exit of the office building.
    Appreciate the reply, but I'm going to bow out of this one as well.

    Agree to disagree on the topic at hand is fine by me. IMO what you describe is a high-school level math task.

    As I said earlier, I'm glad you're back to doing something you seem to enjoy more.
    Last edited by Warfish; 02-15-2014 at 12:32 PM.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestCoastOffensive View Post
    Dude, you bring out the wolfpack.
    Malodorousness always draws a crowd...of sumpin'




    That'll be the day when the drug-addled heathens figure out life's mysteries (e. g. the irreducibly complex DNA code)
    Last edited by Jungle Shift Jet; 02-15-2014 at 02:54 PM.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestCoastOffensive View Post
    No; that's how I do it; when the time presents itself, I share my message, get them to iterate the chant, and that's enough. The job is complete.


    Nam myoho renge kyo


    Done.
    If its said quizzically ("Nam myoho renge KYO?") does it still count as a chant?

    I prefer to pronounce it "nam myoho renge wco"
    Last edited by Jungle Shift Jet; 02-15-2014 at 02:37 PM.

  13. #153
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    Leave PK alone he is a very smart guy w/e his beliefs, college degree or not.

    That being said, college degrees are better to be had as career
    credentials than not. Why do some of you dummies even question that?
    Do you need a college degree to grasp the concept?

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet View Post
    Leave PK alone he is a very smart guy w/e his beliefs, college degree or not.

    That being said, college degrees are better to be had as career
    credentials than not. Why do some of you dummies even question that?
    Do you need a college degree to grasp the concept?
    There is many a college degree that isn't worth the paper it is printed on let alone the tens of thousands that they cost.

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    There is many a college degree that isn't worth the paper it is printed on let alone the tens of thousands that they cost.
    Is that so?

    In 2012, the typical full-time worker with a bachelor’s degree earned 79 percent more than a
    similar full-time worker with no more than a high school diploma. For comparison, 20 years earlier
    the premium was 73 percent, and 30 years earlier it was 48 percent....since a higher percentage of
    college graduates than high school graduates are employed in full-time work, these figures actually
    understate the increase in the total earnings premium from college completion, said
    Gary Burtless,
    a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, an independent research organization.

    So, despite the painful upfront cost, the return on investment on a college degree remains high.
    An analysis from the Hamilton Project at the Brookings Institution in Washington estimated that the
    benefits of a four-year college degree were equivalent to an investment that returns 15.2 percent a year,
    even after factoring in the earnings students forgo while in school.

    “This is more than double the average return to stock market investments since 1950,” the
    report said, “and more than five times the returns to corporate bonds, gold, long-term
    government bonds, or homeownership.”


    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/04/bu...sion.html?_r=0

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    There is many a college degree that isn't worth the paper it is printed on let alone the tens of thousands that they cost.
    College is a good place to learn, mature and most important learn how to networking.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    College is a good place to learn, mature and most important learn how to networking.
    I went to college and graduate school. However I also went into the Air Force to pay for my Bachelors and waited for my job to pay for my Masters. I didn't go 100k in debt to get my degrees.

    I am not saying college is bad. What I am saying is that there are a lot of schools and degrees that are worthless. Engineering, doctors, lawyers degrees do not equal women's studies, philosophy, literature and liberal arts. Education is a product and just like all products there are good versions and bad versions. Mercedes =/= Yugo, Samsung =/= Coby, etc but most colleges are priced way to high.

    This article probably says it better than I am...
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jennagou...ollege-majors/

    Not all college degrees are created equal. According to a report by the Center on Education and the Workforce (CEW) at Georgetown University, your choice of college major substantially affects your employment prospects and earnings.“What you make depends a lot on what you take,” says Anthony P. Carnevale, Ph.D., director of Georgetown’s CEW.“Most young people in college take whatever interests them, without thinking what it can really do for them.”

    So which college majors are the least valuable in terms of career prospects and expected salary? Using data provided by the CEW from the 2009 and 2010 American Community Survey, Forbesdiscovered the 10 worst college majors based on high initial unemployment rates and low initial median earnings of full-time, full-year workers. The findings? While the arts may be good for the soul, artistic majors are terrible for the bank account.

    Topping the list at No. 1, anthropology and archeology represent the worst choice of college major in economic terms. Recent college graduates of the major, those ages 22 to 26, can expect an unemployment rate of 10.5%, well above the national average. When they do land a job, the median salary is just $28,000, compared to a mechanical engineer’s initial earnings of $58,000.

    With low demand and low earnings, the arts and humanities are well-represented on this list. Film, video and photographic arts (No. 2) features a 12.9% unemployment rate for recent grads; fine arts (No. 3) has a rate of 12.6%; and philosophy and religious studies is a high 10.8%. All earn a median of just $30,000.

    “What society rewards in economic terms has moved away from the softer majors,” says Carnevale. “It’s become about how much math you do.”

    Non-technical majors–the arts (11.1%), humanities and liberal arts (9.4%), social sciences (8.9%) and law and public policy (8.1%)–generally have higher unemployment rates. Conversely, health care, business, and the STEM fields (science, technology, engineering and math) have been more stable and higher paying for recent college graduates. A nursing grad, for instance, faces a below-average unemployment rate of 4% and a median starting salary of $48,000.

    Arts and social sciences are also harder hit in recessions. “When the economy is robust, the demand for the arts goes up,” says Carnevale, “but in a recession, they are the first victims.” The collapse of the housing market means architecture majors now face an unemployment rate of 13.9%, the highest of all the majors tracked. However, once employed, experienced workers earn an above-average median salary of $64,000.

    The value of specific degree types has transformed dramatically since the early 1980s, says Carnevale. While a bachelor’s degree was once a general qualification that could land recipients in a number of different jobs, the last three decades have shown increasing specialization and differentiation of earnings across majors. He believes the change has largely been driven by technology, which increased the demand for knowledge-based workers and technical training.

    Is a four-year college degree still worth it? Carnevale offers an emphatic “yes,” saying the earnings advantage of a bachelor’s degree over a 45-year career is $1.2 million on average. The advantage of an engineering bachelor’s is a whopping $3 million. However, he warns that if you want to pursue the arts and social sciences, you should either combine the study with a more practical major or go for a graduate degree.


    “There’s an escalation in requirements,” says Carnevale. “For degrees like teaching, psychology and the arts, if you don’t get a graduate degree, you don’t make much money.”
    Last edited by Trades; 02-16-2014 at 09:57 AM.

  18. #158
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    Contrast that with the top majors...

    The 15 Most Valuable College Majors

    The College Majors That Are Worth It


    According to PayScale's massive compensation database and job growth projections through 2020 from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, these 15 college majors are the most valuable in terms of salary and career prospects. They are ranked by median starting pay, median mid-career pay (at least 10 years experience), percentage growth in pay and projected growth of job opportunities.


    With rising tuition costs and a rapidly changing job landscape, a student’s college major is more important than ever. It can either set you up for lifetime career success and high earnings or sink you into debt with few avenues to get ahead of it.


    Unless you go to a top-20 brand name school, what matters most to employers is your major,” says Katie Bardaro, lead economist at compensation research firm PayScale. In fact, in a new report by Gen-Y researcher Millennial Branding, a full 69% of managers agreed that relevant coursework is important when considering job candidates.


    So which college majors are most likely to land you a well-paying job right out of school? Analysts at PayScale compared its massive compensation database with 120 college majors and job growth projections through 2020 from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) to determine the 15 most valuable majors in the current marketplace. Ranked by median starting pay, median mid-career pay (at least 10 years in), growth in salary and wealth of job opportunities, engineering and math reigned supreme.


    At No. 1, biomedical engineering is the major that is most worth your tuition, time and effort. Biomedical engineers earn a median starting salary of $53,800, which grows an average of 82% to $97,800 by mid-career. Moreover, the BLS projects a whopping 61.7% growth of job opportunities in the field—the most of any other major on the list.


    Engineering concentrations comprise one third of the most valuable majors. Software engineering majors (No. 4) earn a median of $87,800 after 10 years on the job; environmental engineering majors (No. 5) earn a median of $88,600; civil engineering majors (No. 6) earn a median of $90,200; and petroleum engineering majors (No. 9) earn a median of $155,000—the highest paycheck on the list.


    “These aren’t majors that anyone could do. They’re hard, and these programs weed people out,” says Bardaro. “However, there is high demand for them and a low supply of people with the skills, so it drives up the labor market price.”


    In the Millennial Branding survey, employers reported engineering and computer information systems majors as their top recruits. Also, nearly half of these employers (47%) said the competition for new science, technology, engineering and math talent is steep. That means while other recent grads fight for jobs, these students will likely field multiple offers.


    Math and science concentrations are also well-represented on this list. Biochemistry (No. 2), computer science (No. 3), applied mathematics (No. 10), mathematics (No. 11), physics (No. 14) and statistics (No. 15) majors are increasingly in demand and well-paid.


    Bardaro believes that the new data-driven market makes math skills, particularly statistics, more and more valuable to employers. Many companies now collect large datasets on consumer behavior, be it online search patterns or user demographics. Statisticians who understand data and can use it to forecast trends and behavior will do especially well, she says.


    Conversely, the worst-paying college majors are child and family studies, elementary education, social work, culinary arts, special education, recreation and leisure studies, religious studies, and athletic training.
    Last edited by Trades; 02-16-2014 at 09:57 AM.

  19. #159
    It always laugh at these lists of worst paying majors. So I guess no one should ever go into elementary education.

    or if you really want to be a chef, you shouldn't do it, you should be an accountant instead.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    It always laugh at these lists of worst paying majors. So I guess no one should ever go into elementary education.

    or if you really want to be a chef, you shouldn't do it, you should be an accountant instead.

    of course..chase your dreams. BUT if you want to be a CHEF, don't spend 100K at Johnson and Wales or a teacher, plenty of great state schools. No need to drop 100K at a small private school. Does Murray know you are picking on accountants? Here I am in the office , on a Sunday, making up for 2 snow days.

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