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Thread: See you and thanks for the memories.

  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTjetfan52 View Post
    I appreciate your reply and your work experience. 20 years in the system gives you certain cred in your outlook. Nonetheless...you don't know Ray Lewis or Mike Vick. You never will and so you just can't judge them on their own level of self-awareness, contrition or evolution as human beings. You can try. You can show me all the quotes and diatribes from the individual that might make you feel they are "fake-ass, pious, I-found-God" blah blah blah types. But, in the end, none of us know the individual and what profound shifts may or may not have occurred. For every 100 junkies badly hooked there are a percentage who try to try to get clean. Some actually succeed. Sometimes it takes 20x I rehab. Far more don't make it. But there are those who do get clean and become good citizens. I don't know about Mike Vick. I just don't want to get into the racket of being judge and jury about his past actions. All I know is what I have read-heinous crimes, major mistakes, found guilty, did 21 MONTHS IN THE FEDERAL PEN., seemingly got it together and got back to playing football. If I was hiring people for my company I'd check their record, check their references and maybe give them an opportunity. 3 strikes and your out but that doesn't mean they should be put in a hole and killed. The Eagles gave Vick another shot. So are the Jets. Based on his work history it's a good move for the organization.
    I guess we agree to disagree, then. I suppose you could chalk it up to my work experience having jaded my outlook on rehabilitation as a whole. That isn't to say I never give guys previously locked up a fair shake, just that it always puts my guard up. I feel that's a pragmatic and expected response. As to Vick in particular, I have no doubt he's a changed man. That he isn't torturing and killing dogs anymore means that he's changed for the better. But again, that doesn't mean I have to like him or forgive his past transgressions.

    Quote Originally Posted by NYJ88 View Post
    Dude shuuuuuuutttttuuuuuuuuppppppp.
    You're an awesome contributor. Please find the time to post more often.
























    Quote Originally Posted by CTjetfan52 View Post
    I'm not sure if anyone including yourself cares if he is forgiven. I'm not sure he "fulfilled his debt"....whatever that is...some federally decided amount of time in a federal prison...I just find it depressing that you simply lump Ray Lewis (and Vick) in the category of all of the recidivists that you cite from your work experience when, for all intents and purposes, neither of these two have slid back into recidivism. They "cleaned up" and have "stayed clean". What else do you want? Prison terms forever for Vick and Lewis? Have you learned nothing in your work? Incarceration does little towards rehabilitation/
    He fulfilled his debt as put forth by the terms laid out by "the People". As for not falling back into recidivism, I'm sure we could both agree that it's a whole lot easier to avoid that experience when you have people willing to give you millions of dollars, which in turn can sets you up for better post-incarceration success than the guy living in Washington Heights making $300 a week. So before giving folks like Lewis or Vick credit for not returning to jail, let's recognize that. You ask what else do I want? Nothing, frankly. Fulfilling the terms of a legal requirement ╪ forgive and forget. I'll agree that the "Correction" department should be renamed the "Incarceration" department to more accurately reflect its true nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelioion View Post
    I have to ask a couple of questions here too...

    1) He's going to certainly play in pre-season, why would that be different?
    2) What if Geno starts and gets hurt week 6? Will you stop watching effectively after that? Will you come back then once Geno is healthy and takes back the starting role?
    3) Your concern is not with the organization making the decision to make him part of the team but rather just the player himself that you don't want to see on the field?

    Most fans I hear taking this position are upset with the organization at a whole for making this decision - therefor the playing time won't change their stance.
    1. It won't, and I won't watch then either.
    2. It will be tough to do it, but likely yes. And if Geno comes back after that, I will watch again too.
    3. I am more upset with the organization, yes. If the guy is sitting on the bench, he's out of sight, out of mind. I just can't bring myself to root for success that he may have an active hand in creating. In other words, I can't root for him to be successful in a Jets uniform.

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwave81 View Post
    Mark Sanchez should be pissed at his agent for not formatting his contract to fit what his desires this year ended up being. The Jets lived up to their contract with Sanchez. Tough darts.
    Mark Sanchez should have thrown the ball away a lot sooner and not taken a huge hit in a meaningless pre-season game ...

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by gandolfthewhite View Post
    Bye bye tool! Vick will help. You'll see. Circus my ass. Geno will grow either watching him or the competition. He didn't sulk when he got benched either. Neither did Vick. Tools all of the detractors I say, tools!

    Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
    Who's the More Toolish, the Tool, or the Tool Who Follows Him ?

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesR View Post
    By that same logic (and really just playing devil's advocate here) ... if I save 5 people's lives, is it OK that I then go and murder two others, because it nets out positively?
    +1

  5. #225
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    lol you can say you hate the jets, will never watch them again.. and there are times we all said that ****.. but none of us went on the internets looking for compassion like you do….

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by MysticalJet View Post
    With the signing of Vick, I am done with this team. Been a fan since a child and this is the line. I have posted before that I would stop supporting the Jets if they signed Vick. I personally will not support this team with him on the roster.

    Thanks JI. Although you are not part of the Jets organization, in an indirect way this site shows support of this team. I don't post too often but I have been a member for many many years and have followed this site from the beginning.

    Wish you all the best.
    If Nelson Mandela can forgive the people that unjustly imprisoned him, I think I can muster up the intestinal fortitude to forgive Michael Vick. In life, if we can't forgive, we've got no chance at all to ever move forward.

    Anyway, with a name like Mystical Jet, can we ever be sure he's really gone?

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombo View Post
    You root for the uniform, not the player. See you next month when you forget about the Vick signing.
    We'd all love to forget about it the same way we wished for about 6 months the Tim Tebow trade didn't happen.

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by detjetsfan View Post
    We'd all love to forget about it the same way we wished for about 6 months the Tim Tebow trade didn't happen.
    I'm not sure I follow you. If you're saying that we won't forget about the Vick situation just like it was hard to ignore Tebow I'll disagree, simply because the constant reminder about Tebow was his bad play. We didn't like the Tebow trade not because of his religion, the circus, etc. it was simply that he added very little and didn't help us win. With Vick, I don't think that will be the problem. I think what he did was horrible, it was disgusting and it was a crime. I do also believe the guy is reformed and has earned the right to step back into society and make a living.

  9. #229

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN View Post
    If Nelson Mandela can forgive the people that unjustly imprisoned him......
    If only we all had the saintly demeanor of a Nelson Mandela, eh?

    The best argument I've heard (thus far) on this issue for the "Offended" such as myself is this:

    Mike Vick loses absolutely nothing if a very small group of fans "boycotts" the Jets. He'll neither notice, nor care. He will suffer no loss, he won't even feel bad about for a milisecond. Nor will the Jets.

    But you, the lifelong fan, will be giving up something important to you, very important in many cases, in what can only be described as a futile gesture, a Quixotian exercise in screaming into the storm (or pissing into the wind if you prefer).

    Your outrage is not illegitimate, regardless of what people on the internet might say.

    But the loss you will suffer simply isn't equalled by the effect it will have.

    Put simply, you (the fan) lose out completely, they (Vick, and the Jets) lose and feel nothing. Futility is what it is.

    So then it comes down to, can you find a way to root FOR the Jets, without rooting FOR someone you find ethicly destestable?

    I guess i'll come down to every individual in this minority to decide that for themselves too.
    Last edited by Warfish; 03-23-2014 at 05:58 PM.

  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    pigs, a far more intellectually advantaged animal than dogs, are tortured for bacon
    Ever have dog bacon? It's awful

  12. #232

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by MysticalJet View Post
    With the signing of Vick, I am done with this team. Been a fan since a child and this is the line. I have posted before that I would stop supporting the Jets if they signed Vick. I personally will not support this team with him on the roster.

    Thanks JI. Although you are not part of the Jets organization, in an indirect way this site shows support of this team. I don't post too often but I have been a member for many many years and have followed this site from the beginning.

    Wish you all the best.
    Take care, drama queen

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by ROPE View Post
    A team with so many needs and they make sure they have a back up quarterback? Incredibly Jets. Very hard to route for this team. What's the point? The rest of the NFL continuously runs laps around us. I'm out routing for the Jets.
    Maybe you drama queens giving up and jumping ship is a sign of good things to come

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by joiseyjet View Post
    Thank you my Jet friendsfriends for 35 years it was fun .but I am done & won't be back here.
    We'll make sure to change the locks...

  16. #236
    Yet again my worldview takes precedence over my football rooting interests and I find myself in the weirdest position.

    To me there are only two logical approaches to rooting for football: become indifferent to the personal lives of the players you are rooting for and focus on the on the field stuff or do exhaustive research, to the best of your ability, into the behavior and past issues of those players.

    Taking the 'well if I hear about it and it is something big then I'll quit rooting for my team' is just lazy morality. Either refuse to root for anything other than a team of Born-again Christians with no criminal records who donate all of their money to charity or accept that there are some ****ty human beings playing football and teams likely have a roughly equal % of ****ty players on their roster.

    If you're going to take a stand, take a ****ing stand - get informed and make the right call. I can respect that.

    This is all kneejerk emotional bull****, however. Vick is likely the poster child for good behavior for the rest of his NFL career and unless you believe in medieval concepts of evil accept that the guy is either rehabilitated or the system has deterred him from doing stuff like that again and move on. Nobody can know the truth of a man's soul so either of those two options is good enough for me.
    Last edited by fnordcircle; 03-23-2014 at 08:16 PM.

  17. #237
    What exactly has Vick accomplished, he can run great, he made it to the NFC championship and sucked!

  18. #238
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    Michael Vick won me a bunch of cash in fantasy that first year he started with Philly.
    I can't drop a team because of one guy, if you did that you might find yourself only watching golf because every team has or has had scumbags.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by fnordcircle View Post
    Yet again my worldview takes precedence over my football rooting interests and I find myself in the weirdest position.

    To me there are only two logical approaches to rooting for football: become indifferent to the personal lives of the players you are rooting for and focus on the on the field stuff or do exhaustive research, to the best of your ability, into the behavior and past issues of those players.

    Taking the 'well if I hear about it and it is something big then I'll quit rooting for my team' is just lazy morality. Either refuse to root for anything other than a team of Born-again Christians with no criminal records who donate all of their money to charity or accept that there are some ****ty human beings playing football and teams likely have a roughly equal % of ****ty players on their roster.

    If you're going to take a stand, take a ****ing stand - get informed and make the right call. I can respect that.

    This is all kneejerk emotional bull****, however. Vick is likely the poster child for good behavior for the rest of his NFL career and unless you believe in medieval concepts of evil accept that the guy is either rehabilitated or the system has deterred him from doing stuff like that again and move on. Nobody can know the truth of a man's soul so either of those two options is good enough for me.
    This is a great post. This is a reality that we have to live with (or not) -- there are many guys on your favorite team (doesn't matter the team, doesn't matter the sport) that if you were to know them -- really know them -- you'd find offensive. You wouldn't like them ... at all. If we had even the slightest clue what many of these guys did in their spare time, we'd be appalled. Again, we all cheer for teams with many "bad" people on them. We just aren't sure which ones they are.

    So I agree, either you stop cheering for sports teams altogether, or you ignore it and don't allow that fact to impact your rooting interests. But this ridiculous idea that we "know" guys based on interviews or sound-bites or brief interactions at games or practices is unbelievably nave. We don't know them, they don't know us, they "use" us, we "use" them. Just cheer for the jersey -- frankly, I couldn't care less who wears it. I root for the Jets. I don't care about the person inside the uniform.

  20. #240

    See you and thanks for the memories.

    Quote Originally Posted by fnordcircle View Post
    Yet again my worldview takes precedence over my football rooting interests and I find myself in the weirdest position.

    To me there are only two logical approaches to rooting for football: become indifferent to the personal lives of the players you are rooting for and focus on the on the field stuff or do exhaustive research, to the best of your ability, into the behavior and past issues of those players.

    Taking the 'well if I hear about it and it is something big then I'll quit rooting for my team' is just lazy morality. Either refuse to root for anything other than a team of Born-again Christians with no criminal records who donate all of their money to charity or accept that there are some ****ty human beings playing football and teams likely have a roughly equal % of ****ty players on their roster.

    If you're going to take a stand, take a ****ing stand - get informed and make the right call. I can respect that.

    This is all kneejerk emotional bull****, however. Vick is likely the poster child for good behavior for the rest of his NFL career and unless you believe in medieval concepts of evil accept that the guy is either rehabilitated or the system has deterred him from doing stuff like that again and move on. Nobody can know the truth of a man's soul so either of those two options is good enough for me.
    Nobody cares what a Patriot queer has to say on this subject

    (Edit: except maybe FreemanMC)
    Last edited by Mohegangreen; 03-23-2014 at 08:44 PM.

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